Unhappy with the guide books

I understand your frustrations, Chani but there are ways around the hassles. I'm one of those who tears up my books, only taking the portions I need and may need. If the section is small enough, I just staple it together otherwise I just take it to Staples to have it rebound and the parts I don't need, I save in a elastic band till my next year's book arrives. For highlighting--after a few messes--I use a Bible highlighter because they don't bleed through thin pages. Do you know if you have access to Bible highlighters? I'll send you some if your amazon doesn't have them.

I liked the 2016 RS France guidebook in electronic form. Easy to navigate and you can make notes on any page. The best part: not having to carry a bulky guidebook.

We've noticed the thinness of paper in the newer guidebooks, as well. The pages are harder to turn, as Chani mentioned. We assumed it was a cost-saving measure. And only mildly annoying.

Darcy, thanks for the tip about Bible highlighters. I had never heard of them.

I went to e-guidebooks a few years ago, never looked back. You can highlight, bookmark, etc. The maps are a problem, but I use paper maps in cities anyway.

I have suggested several times splitting the Italy book into North/Central (including Roma) and South/Sicily (also including Roma), but never got a response about it. More places could be included in each...

Zoe, splitting Italy would be great idea! I even know of a certain fantastic tour guide who could easily put the Sicily chapters together.
Re: the e-books, I like the idea and even have a couple but I'm not comfortable taking my mini iPad out in public and I wouldn't want an e-book on my phone. Yes, I know, that means I prefer having the weight of the paper books but it works for me. I then don't need to worry about it being pick pocketed.

I'm a convert to electronic books. After lugging more and more paper, I find it so much easier to use the electronic ones. I take an old smartphone with me as an entertainment vehicle--audio, books, and the guidebooks.

Unfortuantely, the electronic books are not available in the RS store.

Question: Is an aethiest allowed to use a "Bible" highlighter?

I moved overseas in 1981 and spent 9 years in Europe and SW Asia fo the next 11 years. At that time guidebooks were about all we had for travel. I remember how helpful Fielding's Guide as well as Frommer's and Europe on $10 a day (kept going up with inflation) were to our travels.

With the internet, one can skip the travel guide if they desire. I still buy one when it is available and it still helpful in where to visit, as well as maps of the city with hotels and restaurants (still do most of the hotel research on the internet). I like Rick Steves' guides since they are usually not bulky. I go to Frommer's on line and copy and paste stuff on travel that I can print out and take with me. That way I have 3 pages of information not the entire book. Also, it was free.

Darcy, I use my iPad mini in public a lot - journaling, email, photos, checking guidebooks. I have never had an incident, but I always have it in hand or stowed inside my messenger bag.

@ Frank II - yes, but wear gloves the first time, until you find out if it's going to burn your fingers.

One of my favorite features of the RS books is the high quality, thin paper used. I can't imagine them with heavier stock.

The thinner paper is chosen to save weight and width, so that those 1200 pages can be made to fit into a book that doesn't look and feel insurmountable. Paper for the Greece book, for instance, with half as many pages, is slightly different. I still break them up (and tend to make my notes with ballpoint). The publisher would have a major say in the issue of splitting the Italy book but I'm not aware of what they think about it.

Frank II and Motorgirl: :-)

Hello Chani. Regarding the size of the Travel guide books (for countries) written by Rick Steves :
Rick Steves' travel guide books on individual countries, printed in the 1990s, were different from his travel guide books that were published in recent years (2004 and later). Rick Steves original concept for his travel guide books included making the books small : not very many pages, and the books were not tall or wide. For an example -- Rick Steves' book on GERMANY, AUSTRIA, SWITZERLAND (one book) for the year 1998 was smaller than the book Rick Steves' GERMANY for the year 2016. In some of his books, Rick Steves said : if you want information about places that are not mentioned in this book, you could read about those places in travel guide books written by other people. Rick Steves' books were a light weight, and the book could be carried in a pocket of a jacket. Rick Steves' books were for sale at relatively low prices. His books did not have color photographs. But, in approximately the year 2003, Rick Steves' publisher asked for color photographs in Rick Steves' Travel guide books. The publisher wished for Rick Steves' books to be similar to some of the other travel guide books (Rough Guide, Lonely Planet, ...). The result is -- Rick Steves' travel guide books now are thick, heavier, with color photographs, and higher prices for the books.
I think Rick Steves' book on ITALY is very good, helpful. And I agree that dividing some of his books into two volumes would be a good idea. i.e., ITALY volume 1. ITALY volume 2.

Zoe, I love the idea of splitting the Italy book, especially with keeping Roma in each volume. It would inconvenience people who do travel to say, Venice, Rome, and Naples on the same trip, but I'll bet a lot of folks tend to stay in one region. Our last trip we did Sicily, Sorrento, and Rome. Next year we're sticking pretty much to Northern Italy.

We don't use ebooks yet, and don't know if we ever will. We're book freaks. Although so is my sister, and she is now devoted to her Kindle.

What I'd really love is to see is Italy split into two books, each with Rome and each expanded by a few cites, but keep the current Italy guide under a name like best of Italy or essential Italy.

"And some justify destroying a book because it's too "heavy". Years ago, they burned them in order to make sure they were useless to anybody else. Same thing."

MrsEB, if I recall correctly, you've made this comment, or words to that effect, before, and I have to say I just don't get it. "Book burning", whether to destroy a Henry Miller book for it's so-called lewd content, or Nazi's destroying sacred Jewish texts simply share no relation, imho, to the current discussion, in which some advocate for pulling a mass produced reference guide apart in order to increase its utility. Respectfully, this is not the same thing, not by a mile, imo.

Guidebooks are not forever, folks, unless you keep it as a souvenir of your trip. Even basic information changes every few years, and some info is obsolete by the time it's published. Cities tend not to move (although I am keeping an eye on Civita di Bagnoregio), but train types, schedules, pedestrian zones, prices all are subject to change).

I am one of those people who likes a pristine book, I would never deface a real book. But guidebooks are (reluctantly) fair game for taking apart, in my opinion. That's why I switched to e-guidebooks.

And Dave beat me to the book burning analogy. The reason for book burning had nothing to do with usefulness, but was an attempt to suppress freedom of speech or to destroy a cultural patrimony.

Oh my, dear, dear Chani, with all the crises going on in the world these days, you are unhappy about the thickness of the paper in Rick Steves travel guides. Things must be good there in Tel Aviv! (:->)))

And MrsEB, I can't tell if you have a written a somewhat limited attempt at humor, or a somewhat limited attempt at seriousness and logic. Maybe you could explain more?

Happy holidays everyone!

This is quite possibly the only book review I have ever read that critiques the book's physical construction, rather than the written content.

Larry, focusing on this (and other similar) issues of import keeps me from dwelling on the trivial events of the day and going completely bonkers.

Tearing out pages from a guidebook is the "same thing" as book burning? Do you have any idea how bad that sounds? From before the time of Savonarola to and beyond the infamous Nazi book burning of May 10, 1933, book burning has been a tool of the despot to destroy free thought and ideas deemed dangerous. The practice has an evil history.

Tearing useful pages out of a guidebook is a practical solution to "packing light." It is not destroying literature or ideas, and can in no way be compared to a book burning. The guidebook is simply a compilation of useful and current information, with as much lasting value as a newspaper. When you have finished with it, recycle the paper.

I have gone to Europe for 14 of the last 15 years for about a month each year and during those 14 years have taken a RS tour each year. I have taken a RS guide book that is most associated with the tours that I have taken. I have never torn out pages preferring to keep the books intact. They do not create a problem with my packing light inventory. I have had no complaints with any of his guide books but have found some errors or omissions that I have submitted to the RS folks upon returning to the US.

Yeah, the books for some countries are getting a little thick. Italy in particular which I used on my recent trip is a big book. I am fine with the thinner pages myself, and I don't generally write on books anyway. I like to keep my old guidebooks as mementos of my various trips, would not dream of ripping them up. I do remember fondly when the 2008 Portugal book, or 2011 Prague and Czech Republic, or for that matter 2013 England, were not too thick. Also 2006 Germany and Austria, 2005 Spain, Budapest Second Edition circa 2011. Even 2010 France was pretty reasonable in thickness. I think with the presence of modern booking sites like booking.com, Rick might be able to save space on hotels. My experience is that as much as I would like to book direct, many hotels are lax in responding and it's just easier to use booking.com. Rick has also gone upmarket on hotels and beyond my willingness to pay in many locations. I mostly rely on Rick's books for deciding which cities are worth visiting, and sightseeing practicalities within cities, and transportation connections. I very rarely rely on any guidebook to decide where to eat, but then the focus of my travels is not a transcendent dining experience. My focus is on the sights and good enough dining is, well, good enough.

Tom, reviews of academic books can get very picky, with complaints about paper, cover images, typeface...

Someone once said that arguments or disagreements in academia are taken so seriously because the stakes are so small.

On the trips since the 21st century I have not carried a guide book. The one I carried most of all in the past was Let's Go Germany or Let's Go Paris or Let's Go France. True, they did contribute to the over-all weight, a drag to carry around. It is unthinkable to tear out pages, wouldn't dare to do such a thing. That's like the infamous Buchverbrennung am Bebelplatz on 10 May 1933 referred to above. A plaque is at that site.

I think the King James Bible I had as a small child had thinner pages than my RS guidebook.

That's just awful. If people are going to give away a book, why mess it up for others by tearing out the pages?

MrsEB, lots of people cut out the section they need and then, instead of throwing out the rest, they leave it behind so that someone who needs other parts might use it. It isn't so much a case of giving it away as leaving it behind in case someone else has a use for it. Cutting sections out of a guidebook is hardly the same as bookburning, and it's certainly not done with the intention of making it unusable for others.

I think the pages are still thicker than the old "Aeromail" letter/envelopes that we used to use to send a letter to Europe. I may be dating myself.

A pity they are gone. I used the old "aeromail" called aerograms along with postcards to write home from the first trip in 1971 until the mid-1990s. In Germany they were called "Luftpostleichtbrief."

Aerograms were what we used to write home when I was living in Austria as a college student in the 1970s. We all learned to write small and get a lot of information into them.

I truly cannot believe people are comparing the Book Burnings of 1933 that took place in 37 University towns in Germany, with people pulling pages out of guide books!

Those books were burned because their authors were Jewish, Communist, Socialist or anyone else the Nazis deemed to be "un-German". People like Helen Keller, Upton Sinclair, Jack London, and so many more.
Berlin is not the only city with a plaque identifying the spot where this destructive censorship took place. The only thing you could possibly compare this to, is the censorship of books in school libraries today.

Tearing pages out of RS guidebooks is a personal form of destruction only.

As far as tearing out the pages of Rick's books, he encourages it.

I posted this partly to vent and partly as a caveat to would-be buyers. Some of the replies have been "interesting."

The RS store sells a guidebook page binder specifically designed for pages removed from the RS guidebooks, so obviously Rick and his company have no problem with people taking pages out, in fact they appear to encourage it. I don't like to take pages out because the books are useful for return visits and my friends and I have a regular routine of lending each other books as we plan our trips.

As for writing in books, my senior high school English teacher encouraged us to underline passages (that was before highlighters) that were striking to us and to underline words we didn't know so we could look them up. Many of my college textbooks have lots of underlining and highlighting, as do most of my guidebooks. With the possible exception of "holy" books (Bible, Koran), they are just things, not sacred objects. After I've read a book, I have 3 choices. If I don't want to keep it, I'll pass it along to someone else, but if I don't find a taker, I have no qualms about putting it in the recycle bin.

I don't want to go into the content of the books - that's a whole 'nother discussion. I do give Rick a lot of credit for putting the year prominently on many of his books and easy to find on the back cover next to the price on all of them. So many other guidebooks make it hard to find (DK is the worst, I think), so when you pick up the book in a store, you may not notice - or have trouble finding out - how current the information is.

Let me add that by NOT cutting up guidebooks, we are helping the world economy and helping to create jobs.

Let's say you are going to three countries. Well, you will need three guidebooks. By taking the entire guidebook, the weight of your bag will be much heavier than if you just took the parts you needed for your trip. A heavier bag means it may have to be checked. Checked luggage comes with a cost. This helps to increase the airline's revenue and creates jobs for the extra people needed to deal with that overweight suitcase. And think how much nicer it will be not having to fight for overhead space. And all that extra time you'll get to spend at the airport waiting for your bag. (I just love watching that baggage carousel go round and round while playing "spot my bag.")

But what if you can carry on with the extra books? The extra weight can lead to back or shoulder problems. This can lead to doctor's visits, physical therapy, drugs and the like. All the people and businesses associated with your illness will make money. More healthcare workers will be needed to treat these people. This will aid our economy.

So, to help the world, don't tear up your guidebook.

If you think this post is ridiculous--it is--then so is comparing cutting up a guidebook with book burnings by Nazis, Communists and religious zealots. One is to control the information available and the other is to make it easer on a tourist. No one is stopping others from buying that guidebook.

Ms Jo--- only one person compared tearing out pages to book-burning. The others protested this analogy.

You are quite right that thin pages are hard to photocopy without the other side bleeding through. But, if you play with the contrast or darkness settings on the copier, you can usually get a copy that doesn't have as much bleed through, but is still readable. Try making the copy lighter and/or less contrasty.

Sasha, there are two: Fred and Mrs EB. Thanks to Ms Jo for eloquence and Frank II for a little humor on the original question.

With the still-quite-new $100 store credit for those taking a RS tour, one possibility is to order 2 copies of the same guide book, one to cut into sections for your trip, the second to cherish and consult forever in your personal library. I actually did that, once anyway.

I support our host by buying the guide books, tearing out the sections and then buying them again for my next trip. I'm on my third set. The page thickness seems fine.

I also recommend tearing out the helpful info. I don't bring the info on hotels and restaurants. I use TripAdvisor's Experts' forums. If I want to know a great restaurant for a specialty item, I post and get a response in no time. Or, I ask "where is the best store to buy ___?" and there is my answer in an hour!

FWIW. I don't think tearing up travel guides is the same as book burning. It's no different than clipping favorite recipes.

Travel guides are tools that become obsolete quickly. Information that applies in 2001 is likely to be completely different in 2017, places close, other places open, management/ownership changes. What was a good value then is no longer true (think train passes). If nothing else, security requirements have changed completely since 2001 - which changes where and how you buy your tickets, reservation requirements, etc.

Buying new books not only keeps your information more current, it also helps the authors make a living.

I use old guides, from the library, for planning (may rethink Kindle versions in the future) but buy the latest books that I'll use on my trip.

My problem with the Italy guide is a lot more isn't covered than is covered in the book. I think Chani has a really good suggestion. Rick should reduce the books to regions to keep them both smaller and more useful. I had an unplanned stop in Italy and realized my Rick Steves book had absolutely no relevant information about it (no eating, lodging or sights), as if the place didn't exist.

On my more recent trip to France, I bought the Rick Steves Paris book but brought Michelin Green Guides for Normandy, Brittany and Loire - the Green Guides had a lot more information that wasn't covered in Rick's books (although what Rick covers is covered better).

"It doesn't matter as the result is EXACTLY same. Whatever the means whether the burning of a book or tearing up the pages, one destroys a perfectly good book. As often as people start posts or threads recommending the destruction of books, I will continue to advocate for a book's protection from destruction in particular advocating e-books."

As I sit at home contemplating your words, I am enjoying looking at, leafing through, and reading from my respectable collection of first edition books. It's mostly American fiction, though I follow couple of Irish writers and American politics too-first edition, first printings, many signed by their authors and about half of those signed books received directly from the author at readings whenever they are within a hundred miles of my home. I'm sure you are familiar-pay to get into the event, purchase a book at full pop, then wait patiently for a couple words and an autograph from the author. I also collect Advance Reader Copies and uncorrected proofs when I can get them, critical companions for favorite authors, some periodicals, and the like. I love books, I love reading, I love the smell of books. I love my audiobooks too. I do about one hundred times what the average person does to protect and preserve important books. As much as I respect the work RS and his writers do, he makes reference books-there is probably someone who collects them-I own his ETBD from the second year he published it and I won't ever be chopping it up. If anyone has a copy of his first book that they are not married to, I'd love to acquire it.

When we were in London for four nights three years ago, I had with me the sixty or eighty pages I'd removed form my then current RS Great Britain book, stapled in three or four suitable groupings per our planned itinerary. When when we checked out of our B and B in Muswell Hill, I asked the host if he'd like to have the pages. He was thrilled, instructing me to leave them in the basket in the foyer where other guides were available, and also other useful resources left by other travelers. Of course, I still have the bulk of the book, and will put it to good use when it's time to see the rest of Britain-though since it is a reference guide with topics whose details change I'll buy a new one too-and then it'll go into the free basket at our local library. A travel guide is "perfectly good" when the galleys go to the publisher, by the time that book hits stores, some of that perfection has already worn off.

I have experienced no ill effects or persecution from ripping up an RS book or two; I cannot say the same for those who protested too strongly when demanding that thugs stop their terrible book burning actions, here in the U.S. or abroad. Not the same, certainly not exactly the same, and whoa-definitely not EXACTLY the same.

In the Rick Steves video on packing, or maybe it's travel skills, he has a stack of torn-out book section that he puts into his luggage.

I collect 19th-century guidebooks, I have some contemporary guidebooks that I keep, but mostly I give them away or throw them away.

If Mrs EB means that the RESULT is EXACTLY the same, the original book no longer exists in eithe case. The intent, however, is completely different: in one case, to make the information more accessible; in the other, to destroy history and memory. So, if critical thinking counts for anything, the intent/process/result is NOT the same.

I occasionally rip apart my RS books. On my last trip to Europe I took the RS Scandinavia book and since my trip covered almost everything in the book, I felt no need to rip it apart. On another trip, most of my travels were in Eastern Europe but I spent one day in Nuremberg. Before leaving home I tore the Nuremberg section out of my then 2 year old RS book I took on a previous trip. It worked out great.

I think of travel books more like magazines. Their purpose is to be used and their lifespan is fairly short, so why not rip them apart if you find it useful.

Well said, Dave and Zoe (and many others!).

Burning books contributes to global warming and climate change, with many deleterious impacts. Not so, ripping or cutting of books.

One thing you can do when photocopying thin paper pages (like newspaper or RS guides) is to select a lighter toner setting. Today's copiers with LCD touch screens have that option. Even though you select a very light setting, the photocopy looks fine (no bleed through from the page on the other side).

I use an exacto knife to divide my travel guides into useful sections. i often leave parts at home, just taking the sections i know i will need. if you need to reinforce the binding, clear packing tape works pretty well.