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Unexpected realizations in Europe.

I don’t know what else to call it. It’s not about good or bad or right or wrong, but that may come in to it on occasion, its more about different.

Some may be universal but very little in Europe is universal so I will say it’s either country specific with the two-letter abbreviation of the country or I wont if I think its representative of what I experience on the whole of my travels (go to my information page to know what that means).

Some starters

  • Eggs don’t have to be refrigerated (let’s not go into it, there are already threads).
  • Service is culturally different, in that you own the table all night for instance, but also service is not as attentive to real needs as in the US (like getting someone to pay attention long enough to understand you want to pay and go).
  • Public Healthcare is free, but you gotta bring your own toilet paper. (HU)
  • Private Healthcare is a lot more enjoyable than US private healthcare (HU)

I have a hundred but would rather hear from others…..

Posted by
7196 posts

Bidets in many of the hotel rooms and apartments.

Hotels/inns in historic old buildings (some over 400 years old) will often not have elevators and bathrooms will be shoehorned into part of the room space. For me this is not a negative, I love these old places. But it's an adjustment.

Posted by
7196 posts

In some older buildings, hitting my head on the ceiling

Ha, had to laugh at this one. I'm short, only 5'2", and I still hit my head on the ceiling of one of the attic rooms I stayed in.

Posted by
5339 posts

There are exceptions of course:

People having quiet conversations in nice restaurants.

People actually acting civilly to others in shops.

Public transportation that actually works.

Posted by
1454 posts

Rarely screens on windows that will open for fresh air

Posted by
1454 posts

Proprietors at food market choosing your food/fruit/vegs for you

Posted by
2957 posts

In addition to those already mentioned:
Squat toilets. Have run into these in Greece, Italy, and Serbia.
Showers. We have encountered bathrooms without any door on the shower, hand held shower heads that can’t be hung up at height for a shower. Both Greece and Italy.
Not flushing toilet paper- Greece.

Posted by
2743 posts

Not having the toilet in the bathroom. Something I always considered self evident (I grew up in Belgium) but have now realised isn't necessarily.

Posted by
745 posts

Smaller everything (not always but…): meal servings, elevators, hotel rooms, hotel beds, grocery store items, fridges in homes, cars,

Posted by
2267 posts

The lack of (turning) doorknobs on apartment doors.

Crosswalks that don’t have lights or stop signs for drivers. (But they respect them and stop…mostly)

Posted by
132 posts
  1. wandering around the Carrefour supermarket in France- "where in the world is the milk?" Oh, it's not refrigerated, it is all UHT shelf stable :)
  2. No electrical outlets or light switches in UK bathrooms.
  3. Tub/Shower combos with a tiny partial glass screen that in no way stops the water from getting out on the floor. (every European country I've been to so far)

Hmmm, does #3 suggest that #2 has some merit?

Posted by
3157 posts

Maybe Europe and the U.S. could merge their best qualities.

We used one of those all-in-one washer/dryers, which was rather comical.

The toilet thing is a little puzzling. Even in my no-name tiny town we have free, clean toilets in our parks. No need to worry if you have a quarter or whatever when you gotta go now. Also, I get a kick out of long lines in Paris waiting for one of those modern porta-potties. By the time those in the back of the line get there the day is getting away from them. Plus, the stench of urine is something else in some places, like the allies of Heidelberg in August. Whew!

Posted by
3688 posts

Hanging out your washing over the edge of a balcony 5 floors up and hoping you have enough pegs to keep it there! 🇮🇹
So many great choices of different public transport: Tube, bus, tram, train etc all in one city. 🇬🇧

Posted by
28873 posts
  • Derriere-squirting toilets. (Turkey; haven't been to Japan so can't compare)

  • Toilet paper missing from public toilets later in the day because there's no planned restocking. (southern Italy)

  • Doors on toilet stalls that extend all the way to the floor. (many countries)

  • Long-handled squeegees hanging in the shower to corral the water on the bathroom floor in the absence of a shower enclosure. (Norway)

  • Long-handled (roughly 24") shoehorns in hotel rooms. (northern Europe)

  • Wasa crispbread in the bread aisle rather than with the crackers (northern Europe)

  • Prevalent "cash not accepted" signs (especially in Norway, but not exclusively there).

  • Elbow-level door-openers mounted beside entrance doors (especially in Norway and Sweden)

  • Toilets on buses that are kept locked. (Spain, but not every bus)

  • Staircases without hand railings. (not limited to specific countries)

Posted by
34635 posts

Toilets in hotel rooms in tiny cubicle rooms by themselves and the rest of the bathroom elsewhere in the room or suite (FR)

Posted by
2947 posts

A bathroom enclosed by clear glass, in Copenhagen.

Mini size sinks, where there is barely enough room to wash your hands. Numerous places around Europe.

Showing our passport at the hotel reception.

Posted by
2923 posts

This, times 50:

I continue to be fascinated with how many different ways there are to
flush a toilet.

A few more:

  • Leaving your room key, typically with a giant fob of some kind, with the front desk when you go out (Italy, mostly)
  • Potato chip/crisp flavors that are actually interesting and taste good (all over, but I still crave Prague ham flavor)
  • Train travel is actually efficient, easy, and affordable
Posted by
11895 posts
  • Locking your door on the inside with the room/apartment key and remembering to leave it there in case you need to make a speedy exit
  • Stairways with no/insufficient handrails (things OSHA would squash in any lodging)
  • Door release buttons on apartment buildings, not always obvious
  • Lighting/power that only works when you insert a card in a slot by the door (so smart!)
  • Hall and stairway lights that time out
Posted by
9184 posts

In large cities in France, Italy, & UK, the most desirable and expensive places for upper middle class people to live, is in the core central city, as opposed to the suburbs, as in most (not all) US cities. An RS tour guide explained that to me, so it's not just my observation.

Most US homes I've been in that have been built within the last 40 years (including mine) have had the toilet in a room separate from the "bath/lavatory" area. We used to call that a "California bath".

Posted by
755 posts

Those bathrooms where the shower is in the bathroom but not enclosed so the water goes everywhere and there’s nowhere to put your towel or clothes to stay dry. And bath towels made of thin cotton that are not absorbent whatsoever. (Italy)
Also bathrooms enclosed with glass so there is no privacy. (Germany)

Posted by
2350 posts

@Laurel - AND public bathroom lights (restaurants, etc.) that time out!

Posted by
11895 posts

@Janet

AND public bathroom lights (restaurants, etc.) that time out!

Yes!!! Sometimes waving your arms from a seated position is useless. 😉

Posted by
10854 posts

Some surprises, some epiphanies and a lot of grousing on this thread.

Posted by
588 posts

I don't know if it's still the case but back in the day, not all pensions in Germany provided soap, shampoo or washcloths. I learned to carry these, always.
Also back in the day, toilet paper that could remove skin.

Posted by
2743 posts

Also bathrooms enclosed with glass so there is no privacy. (Germany)

The reason is usually to get daylight in the bath room. A German is more likely going to complain about lack of daylight than lack of privacy.

Those bathrooms where the shower is in the bathroom but not enclosed
so the water goes everywhere and there’s nowhere to put your towel or
clothes to stay dry.

I used to have that in my first flat. Made cleaning the bathroom a breeze as I could just use the shower head and some soap, and then would let it dry. I put my towel on a hook on the entrance door.

Posted by
4214 posts

If you criticize something in Europe it's your fault or you lack proper "context". I think Americans take criticism better and more constructively than Europeans generally.

Posted by
8708 posts

Service is culturally different, in that you own the table all night for instance..

James, that used to be the case, but I'm finding more and more restaurants that assign you a specific amount of time when you book your table. Or once you are booked, you get a notice telling you that you have the table for 1 1/2 hours.

Small appliances
Washer in the kitchen
No dryer (but I never mind hanging up wet things to dry)
Heated towel racks are more common (love this!)
Duvets that fit on top of the bed exactly and do not hang over the edge
Different shaped pillows
Electric showers (these were pretty cool).
Adults (including men) giving each other a kiss on each cheek in greeting (such a wonderful PDA)

Posted by
11895 posts

European tilt and turn windows that open vertically or horizontally depending on how you turn the handle

I’d like to have my house so-equipped! So smart!

Posted by
1570 posts

Often times when I've asked for tap water in Europe, they'll just take from the tap and serve it without ice ... I've simply viewed it as my penance.

It’s the norm to serve water at the table without ice. You will rarely get iced water anywhere in Europe. I think it’s just what you’re used to. I always ask for no ice in soft drinks because I don’t like them being super cold. That’s quite a common request here.

Posted by
21551 posts

Carlos, I think every one but one or two are just having a good time. Not really critical, just "different".

Mardee, my hangouts I can sit all day for a cup of coffee. But my legs go to sleep so the bigger issue is the poor service. European waiters go to a special school to learn how to look the other way and to walk through a crowded room and see nothing.

Laurel, they dont have bug screens.

Posted by
10854 posts

I think Americans take criticism better and more constructively than Europeans generally.

That's because this is how we live and we don't complain; in fact, we laugh about things. When I first got to France, many people didn't have their own toilets in their apartments or farmhouses, few telephones, much less large fridges and large washing machines as were found in the States. There was a different standard of living, which is still carried over. Therefore, a few of the "realizations" sound cranky. Today, not having screens (which could change with climate change), drying my laundry on racks in the living room in winter and having to iron the clothes, having my washing machine in the kitchen, having our toilet in a room called la toilette and the bathtub in a room called salle d'eau are part of life, in fact a luxury, compared to before. (Ugh the idea of toilet spray near where we keep our toothbrush.) Delivery people still climb six floors to deliver furniture if the elevator is too small. That's life. So the "surprise" that washers and dryers aren't monstrous like the one I had in the in the US, or assuming we all have small fridges (mine is larger than any fridge I ever had in the US), and fewer plugs than in my US McMansion, are just part of life. We don't complain, we just get on with life and learn how to hold that shower head so the water hits the wall not across the room. Just keep waving those arms while on the throne and hitting those buttons in dark hallways to keep the lights on.

Posted by
2857 posts

I can only speak for me, but I don’t view these as criticism, just things that are different. I don’t like ice in my drinks, so I did not mean the shortage of ice cubes as a bad thing.

Posted by
470 posts

I think the first time a waiter ever came to the table with a hand-held credit card machine was in Europe. I believe my first unisex bathroom ever was in Europe. I recall the smaller size of hotel rooms. And Nutella--It was my first time in Europe. I was 17, and on a summer exchange program, living with a West German family (1983). I came upstairs the first morning for breakfast and there was this jar of chocolate icing on the table. This is for my toast? I couldn't believe it--dessert for breakfast! Also, In West Germany, I remember my host brother's English teacher going out to drink in a tavern with a group of his students--I thought that was unimaginable in the US!

Posted by
21551 posts

But healthcare is FREE!!!

A few things that most won't recognize are
Sales tax is 25 to 27% (yes, VAT but it drains the purse like a sales tax ... still I love the concept) My country of residence has a 15% income tax on top of that.

Then there apartment HOUSE FEES, that renters generally pay.... think HOA.

Electric is a solid twice the cost in Texas. But for most that's okay because there is no A/C and homes and appliances are less than half tge size.

Cable and internet less than half my Texas cost, but they all speak the wrong language.

When you balance everything, I am pretty comfortanle. Just "different"

Posted by
21551 posts

Good one ... Unisex Resttooms. I love to watch the expression of Americans

That and exterior doors that push in. I've sat and watched a number of Americans try to enter an ATM but gave up when the door didn't open out. Finally I yelled "push"!

Posted by
8139 posts

There’s so many fun unexpected realizations when traveling!

I do love those windows that open like a door and especially tilt because we like to sleep with the window open.

Observing how a line of people in Italy…..what am I saying? There’s no lines. ; )

How much walking is the norm, and how we feel so much better after a few weeks.

We both love the restaurant social culture in Europe where the staff are not bothering us during a meal with the “Is everything fine?” repeated type comments in the US.

Smaller quirky hotels - love them!

My favorite is how people of all ages gather in the town squares & piazzas in the evening and eat later in the evening.

The amazing ancient sites, architecture, church interiors - so beautiful!

Posted by
3688 posts

My friend in Scotland has her washing machine in a cupboard in her second bedroom, because that’s where the plumbing lines run through, but generally they are in the kitchen.
Easy to then go out the back door to hang up the laundry outside.
I’m always amazed when the washers are found outside on a balcony in Italy.

We put in a heated towel rail when we redid our bathroom here at home.🙂

Posted by
2947 posts

I don't read these unexpected realizations as criticisms at all, just differences.

When we lived in military housing, our washer and dryer were in the kitchen.

Posted by
7357 posts

Delivery people still climb six floors to deliver furniture if the elevator is too small

"What elevator 😂", was my thought from my 6th floor walk-up with dodgy plumbing, lead gas mains, and a working fireplace. At least I have piped gas; the corner stores still sell gas canisters... Everything is so old in Paris!

Posted by
21551 posts

Funny, there is another thread where an individual says they dont worry about voltage surge protectors because the electric in "Europe" is so good. And another that said they dont think a carbon monoxide detector is necessary because Europe is so modern and has gone electric. Personally, I dont worry too much about either, but the statements supporting it are sort of off base. I am just lazy and a tad reckless.

Posted by
21551 posts

So for context I left my 3000-sf hilltop self-designed and self-built home for a 700 sf flat in Europe.

I left my top of the line stacking front loading washer / dryer that holds a weeks’ worth of laundry for my washer / dryer combo that is advertised at 5kg but if you truly want it dry in under 4 hours you are limited to about 2kg (1 jeans, two shirts, two skivvies and two pairs of socks). No, I refuse to do the drying rack in the living room.

I left my central air and central heat for a thru wall AC that doesn’t work too terribly bad and wall mounted electric heaters that do a great job as long as the outside drop in temperature is slow and predictable.

My dish washer is replaced by ………… well, elbow grease.

My garbage disposal is replaced by ……….. well, to be honest, the toilet.

Daily shopping for essentials is so charming ……………… and so necessary because my refrigerator is about a 60-liter capacity (think large back pack). Good thing the eggs and milk don’t have to go in it.

I can make ice, or I can use the space to keep frozen two USDA NY Strip steaks I just paid 25.000 ft /kilo ($37/lb) for.

My cook top (hob to you brits) is a single induction.

My oven is a combo convection, standard, microwave that will hold a very small chicken.

My bathroom does contain all the fixtures in an America arrangement but that’s because I did the renovation. Prior to that it was the shower wand in the tile room.

My windows don’t open three ways, they open out to the street, but I put up a barrier down low so the people cant look in. No bug screen and impossible to add one.
In the summer my electric bill isn’t much lower than my home in Texas because I run the AC in the uninsulated pre 1900 building. And because electric is so dang expensive here.

Electric? I have 6 outlets in my entire home. Thats not 6 duplexes thats six single outlets.

In Texas I had a two-car garage with a wood shop and with a Land Rover and a Jensen Interceptor. Now I have a metro pass.

My Common Fee or House Fee or HOA fee is less than my property tax in the states by about 75% but still ain’t cheap. (why does spell check reject ain’t?)
Healthcare is free, but I am on a 9-month waiting list for a cardiac procedure that I could get done in the states in 3 weeks.

All said and done, I really enjoy my life here. But it isnt better than the US, just different. Actually, if you are under 45 you would need to think twice about such a move. I would say not to,.

Posted by
755 posts

What I really wish was the norm here in America is shutters on windows. To just fling open and have fresh air and light! No drapes or blinds or curtains!

Posted by
21551 posts

The water, never seen but believe you. I guess the tiurist traps are becoming more aggressive.

The dryer .... is called a condensing dryer. Common where historic codes don't allow vents out the wall. I own one but has a proper drain and not a collection bag.

Posted by
8708 posts

I don't see these as criticisms either. I find the differences interesting. And in fact, some of these differences can be found here in the states. For example, my cousin's 5th floor walk up in NYC has the bathtub in the kitchen.

And James, I have a single induction cooktop and a small convection/toaster oven in my kitchen (plus a separate microwave). I've found that's all I need for my cooking needs, although I will admit that if need be, I can always walk upstairs to my daughter's part of the house and use one of their two gas ovens. 😊

Posted by
3157 posts

I can understand the bus toilet being locked. We had a guy who destroyed the bathroom on one trip. I don't know what he ate or drank, but it was rough, my friends. A fresh-air dealer could have made good money. Whew!

Posted by
8101 posts

I can make ice, or I can use the space to keep frozen two USDA NY Strip steaks I just paid 25.000 ft /kilo ($37/lb)

Is there anywhere in Europe that actually sells USDA inspected meat? And is it Prime, or Choice? Are steaks truly advertised as “NY Strip,” instead of “sirloin?”

Posted by
8101 posts

Another thing that’s different from in the USA is so many businesses (stores, restaurants, hair salons, gelatero shops) that have a pull-down metal cover when the place is closed. Especially in places in Italy, France, and Spain, if you didn’t know that there was a business behind that graffiti-covered metal wall, there’d be no clue, save for, perhaps, a sign above it.

Posted by
354 posts

I have to chuckle when I read some of these posts.

The washing machine was in the kitchen of the house I grew up in. Dryer was outside-called a clothesline. I never used a clothes dryer until I moved into my current apartment 1.5 yrs ago. I always used a clothesline-winter and summer and miss it to this day. (I'm 68).

I never had curtains in my house but did use insulated window shades for comfort, not privacy. Didn't need the privacy piece when living smack dab in the woods.

I have always loved the European window that tilts and opens and was thrilled that this window is in the building I now live in, esp since I love to crack open the window in winter.

Things I miss from Europe from when I lived there 1975-78:
-small water heaters for the kitchen and bath so you can heat what you need and not a 300 gallon thing
-bike paths between villages that are shared with tractors and other farm equipment but never cars
-seperate toilet room and bath room
-abundance of local food and open markets

Posted by
2743 posts

The dryer .... is called a condensing dryer. Common where historic
codes don't allow vents out the wall. I own one but has a proper drain
and not a collection bag.

This is not so much about code, but about energy. Blowing lots of hot air outside is wastefull.
Anyway, I am always amazed by how the topic of dryers comes up. We have a dryer too. Its. as is the norm i Switzerland, a non vented dryer as well.
We do not use it a lot. My wife would kill me if I put her clothes in the dryer. So all it is used for is towels and (when the wife isn't looked) sometimes some of my stuff.

Posted by
21551 posts

Cyn, yes. Prime. But you pay an arm and a leg. The ones I have bought have been excellent.

Funny about a strip and a sirloin. I went to a nice steakhouse in Budapest a few nights back and ordered a NY Strip (Argentinean beef) and a round piece of meat was delivered. I complained but the waiter pretended not to understand. But we do have a another steakhouse that has nice American beef.

Okay, another difference is Europeans butcher beef substantially differently.

Posted by
10854 posts

The handy thing.about the dryer water bag is that it can be brought to the restaurant to avoid tap water charges. LOL
Nearly blew the Bialetti café across the kitchen.

-Can speak only for France for all the following, but : Yes, meat is cut along the muscle rather than across muscle. I tell the butcher what I'm making and he sells the me the appropriate meat.
-No dryer, never had one in France and I don't know any French people who do, even higher income folks, only the American ex-pats. Agree with Wengenk's wife about not putting her clothes in the dryer.
-Live on the Mediterranean and had a large heat pump air conditioning unit installed that cools the whole 1,000 sq ft place. Had additional electric sockets installed. Had 3,000 sq ft in the US.
-Had a Bosch dishwasher in the US; our French Bosch is smaller. Will be replaced. Fridge is a giant 4-door. 3-burner induction cook top. Oven too small for US cookie sheets or a turkey. I don't have to host Thanksgiving.
-Over the stove exhaust fans in apartment building don't exit the air. It just circulates.
-Every room with water in newer buildings, has mandatory air evacuation systems running 24/7 to avoid mold.
-Garbage disposals are illegal. Have little baskets in the drains to catch chunks. Bio-waste is now to be recycled at bins in the streets, as in Italy. New law just took effect. 30% of waste is bio. Speaking of bio, had a Villeroy and Boch toilette installed.
-Heavy groceries are delivered every two weeks, UHT milk, water because ours is too hard for anyone who has had kidney stones, canned, packaged, foods, bottled drinks. OTOH, I drink the tap water because it's hard with calcium.
-Always had one car in the US, now no car. Loved my hybrid SUV. Now we have trams, buses, two train stations, an airport.
Yes, agree about age, career, and moving. Earning money to save is not as easy in Europe. So, take advantage of the best both places have to offer.

Posted by
21551 posts

I didn't realize that Europe was more humid than Canada? Good to know. Thank you.

The hand-cranked clothes dryer was created in 1800 by M. Pochon from France. In 1892, George T. Sampson developed and patented America's first automatic clothes dryer.

How old are you?

Posted by
1570 posts

I have a condenser dryer and use it about twice a month in winter. Clothes do shrink in it so only use it for towels and things like school uniform which is indestructible. In decent weather I dry outside and have an indoor airer that I use the rest of the time.

Posted by
4418 posts

In our Croatian apartment there is no heat or A/C. And it snows there frequently. Gets pretty cold, which is one reason we don’t visit after October. The heat I can deal with cause we usually get a nice breeze, we’re off the sea.
The combo washer/dryer is only used to wash because if the clothes are dried it would take a can of spray starch to get the wrinkles out. We hang the clothes on the balcony.
We also are in the 5th floor, no elevator. And no screens on the windows, but shutters. Never had a problem with bugs, too high up.
To use the stove, we have to open the gas, then light the burner, then turn off the gas afterwards.
Complaints?, no, just differences. Differences we can easily live with.

Posted by
8708 posts

For those interested in the arcane: when faced with a choice of hanging clothes up in freezing morning weather, or waiting till it's above freezing, the clothes will dry faster if hung up early; they will freeze but they give up a lot of moisture in the freezing process and will be dry earlier in the day than if you had waited.

Tom, that's very interesting. I always hung my clothes out to dry when I lived in Colorado and Ohio, but haven't tried it in Duluth because of the weather. Looks like I might need to try that out. Thanks!

Posted by
2947 posts

Even within the US there are so many differences. When we lived in base housing and in upstate NY, we did not have a garbage disposal. We had a well when we were in NY, so when power went out we were in a bind, so we kept gallons of water on hand just in case. When we visit our relatives in Alaska, there is no running water, no indoor plumbing, no roads, etc. The only way there is by float plane and then hike for 5 hours or their bush plane. The outhouse does not have doors, just two sides and those are half walls and then a roof. No refrigerator of course, so the flooring was cut and under the house is where we put the perishables. You do not go outside without a gun and a dog. No cell service. We take our Garmin Inreach for emergency, and out family has a sat phone as backup. Doing laundry with a washboard and then hanging everyrrhing to dry. Elastic items like bras and underwear have to be hung inside unless it is summer as elastic will break when it freezes. Outside of summer we use a laundry line in the covered porch. I took a picture one year (mid Sept) of my husbands socks that he had wrung out and hung, and in the morning they had long icicles on them. Yes, this is all a bit extreme as it is so far up in the bush. but there are still quite a few people that live this way, so it is not out of the norm by any means.

Posted by
2743 posts

For those interested in the arcane: when faced with a choice of
hanging clothes up in freezing morning weather, or waiting till it's
above freezing, the clothes will dry faster if hung up early; they
will freeze but they give up a lot of moisture in the freezing process
and will be dry earlier in the day than if you had waited.

We actually learned this in primary school. As an example of how some things may be counterintuitive. And to explain why our mothers would indeed hang laundry out to dry in winter.

I now live at a much higher altitude, where in winter the air is cold, but dry. And stuff does dry outside almost as fast as my dryer could...

Garbage disposals are illegal

They are actually legal in most places, but there is no interest. Maybe we just have better garbage collection.

Posted by
21551 posts

I remember a magazine they passed out in elementary school ..... Scholastic .... or something like that. It had a cartoon picture of a kid that put hot water in the bird bath in the winter and the birds found it frozen. The caotion was hot water freezes faster than cold water. I remember that from nearly 60 years ago.

My trash pickup in Bpest is daily. I don't understand the recycling codes so everything goes in one.

Posted by
10854 posts

My cousin lived in an Alaskan village north of Norton Sound. She told me her babies' cloth diapers took only a few minutes to dry. She'd hang then outside and a few minutes later shake off the ice crystals, bring them inside and fold them. Freeze dry, just like instant coffee she taught me.

Posted by
2743 posts

European thing that might perplex Americans: Teenagers drinking beer and wine, and nobody finding that a big issue...

Posted by
328 posts

One I've noticed more lately...no top sheet. Only the fitted or bottom sheet and a duvet. Not sure why?

Posted by
1757 posts

Most of what I have to add has already been mentioned, but a few that stand out for me (and some, I've adopted at home):

On-demand water heaters that need to be switched on and off (Paris, Hong Kong). (Thought on-demand heaters were such a good idea that we got a Rinnai in our home, although it does not need to be turned on/off manually.)

Those wonderful European windows that tilt and turn also tend to be wonderfully sound-dampening. (First encountered in Vienna.) Loved these so much, we tried to get them for our home when we replaced our windows, but that proved to be difficult, so we settled for crank-style triple-pane, instead.

Workers expect to be greeted before you ask them a question (Hungary, and other places).

A king bed is usually two twins pushed together. (Ours at home is now like this, because we have latex mattresses, which are heavy.)

Induction hob (first encountered in Hungary--loved it so much, we got an induction stove).

Toilet in separate room--makes so much sense. I've seen people complain about this in reviews, but when we first encountered this (in our apartment in Paris), we found it a lot more convenient for our family of five than having everything in a single bathroom.

Great public transportation infrastructure. Makes so much sense, and makes life easier, less stressful, and less expensive.

Mixed-gender public bathrooms (first encountered in Munich). Makes sense and is probably more practical and economical than duplicating everything.

Espresso makers at most breakfast buffets.

Three things I don't like: eating dinner later (I have reflux, and need to avoid eating a certain number of hours before bed, as a rule). Undercooked ground beef (Mainz, among other places). Pissoirs on the street (Lisbon).

Posted by
2947 posts

Bets-Our family is a ways north west of Coldfoot, within hiking distance of the Gates of the Arctic park. No village, just a few family cabins that are within about 18 miles of each other. We love to go visit as it is so unique.

Kaye--We love the duvet with no top sheet! We adopted that a few years ago. We brought the duvets home from Iceland with us since they are not a size that we can easily find here.

BB--Our toilets are in separate rooms from the rest of our bathrooms. I do love that it is easier when multiple people are needing to get ready.

Posted by
2743 posts

One I've noticed more lately...no top sheet. Only the fitted or bottom
sheet and a duvet. Not sure why?

Why would you want a top sheet if you have a duvet? I have all my life always slept under a duvet at home (with a fitted bottom sheet), and those occasions where I had to deal with sheets I actually did not like them.

Undercooked ground beef

What is considered the right way to cook beef is of course as matter of debate. I actualy like raw grond beef (tartare) and will make that myself. When I order a hamburger I want it medium.
Many restaurants will show you the door if you dare order meat "well done". Or at least, they should :-)

Posted by
1757 posts

I don't mind steak done medium, but I cannot bring myself to eat ground meat that isn't well-done. If there are any bacteria on steak, it is on the outside, and the heat kills them. However, when meat is ground, any bacteria on the outside gets transferred throughout. If it is not cooked thoroughly, that bacteria is not killed. I know there are people who eat steak tartare, and I know there are people who eat hamburger that is pink on the inside, but I cannot and do not.

Posted by
5608 posts

Is there anywhere in Europe that actually sells USDA inspected meat? And is it Prime, or Choice? Are steaks truly advertised as “NY Strip,” instead of “sirloin?”

Yes but it's expensive. It's always Prime, I've never seen Choice available most likely because why would you bother importing it? The cuts I've seen for sale are labelled as the US cut. I've never bought any as I think Scottish beef is better and it's a lot cheaper.

As for dryers, I have one and I had one as a kid in the 80's. I know plenty of people who have them so they're not as uncommon in the UK as some people believe.

I also don't recognise any of the issues with bathrooms, showers etc that have been described. I've never experienced any of them anywhere I've travelled in Europe other than the non flushing of toilet paper in Greece and other Mediterranean countries. It sounds like those places require significant modernisation.

Posted by
21551 posts

Steak Medium? No, RARE to medium Rare at worst. Ground beef? It appears to me that the temp control for cooked and uncooked food seems to be a tad lax in the parts of Eurooe where I have observed it. So, please cook the cr-p out of my burger.

Posted by
649 posts

When we lived in a German apartment for 4 years we had no closets but each bedroom had a freestanding armoire. Our single bathroom had two sinks, one large deep tub, and a separate glassed in shower stall. We had 2 small kiddos then and it was the best family bathroom ever. This was 1980-84 so many years ago now. We loved the dual windows and no screens, never had bugs. Most, but not all, of the 6 apartments were rented to American Air Force folks. It was the best tour by far of our 20 years. Changed our lives I’m convinced, to have had that experience. So important to realize your ‘way’ isn’t the only or best ‘way’.

Posted by
10854 posts

In France, at the butcher shop, the beef is ground while you watch. You tell the butcher how many ounces and the machine is adjusted to what you want. You are then supposed to serve it at the next meal, not let it hang around to develop bacteria. There's no package hanging around in a fridge for a few days. There's no such thing as 70% meat with 30% fat, or 80% or 90%. It's all extremely low fat, called biftek haché--another difference.

I would never buy steak haché in a supermarket, though many people do.

To use steak haché for ground beef doesn't work unless you add some fat. It's too dry for those US recipes. We have to add cubed bacon, called lardons, when making a spaghetti sauce or chili. Another difference.

Posted by
1548 posts

Laurel mentioned the hotel rooms that your room key card need to be inserted to power the room, I've seen that in Ireland, on my first low budget trip to Europe I remember staying in a place in England or France where we literally had a coined meter in the room for lights. On the same trip I had a huge "well, DUH" moment that many of the buskers in the Tube played Beatles music.

being born in 1963 I heard Beatles and Monkees music always in the background played by my older siblings and I missed the whole British Invasion part of the story.

Posted by
2162 posts

Have booked many hotels with an elevator only to find the elevator starts up a flight of stairs. Understand why this occurs in historic buildings, but have also encountered this in several newer hotels. I use a wheelchair, but luckily can still climb a flight if there is a railing.
Likewise, I’m often surprised to find a handicap bathroom intge basement.

Posted by
5074 posts

Becky, I am NOT a handicap user, so for me it is only a matter of interest - not of usage. But I had forgotten about two hotels I stayed at this year (one in Salzburg and one in Budapest) where I took the elevator up several floors as far as it went - and then had a flight of stairs beyond that.

Posted by
2743 posts

I would never buy steak haché in a supermarket, though many people do.

I buy mine frozen. You can buy it here in little frozen "sausages". I suppose that where the produce it they directly grind it in to the sausage tube. They are in small portions so I need several if I am going to make a steak tartare. I just squeeze the meat out of the tubes still frozen, add the spices and condiments (usually also a raw egg) and server it still cold.

To use steak haché for ground beef doesn't work unless you add some
fat. It's too dry for those US recipes. We have to add cubed bacon,
called lardons, when making a spaghetti sauce or chili. Another
difference.

For things like spaghetti sauce I have always bought "half and half". Half beef, half porc. Works a charm. Every butcher should have that.

Posted by
4183 posts

So many of these observations brought back what I learned on my first trip to Europe (late September to mid-January, 1977-78). And what I lived on the "economy" in Nürnberg while working for the US Army 1982-85.

I was on the top floor of an old building that survived WW2 with minimal damage. Each floor had one large apartment on it. Above me was a storage area with no insulation. Even with radiators and a space heater I took from room to room, it was never warm.

The toilet was on a platform in a separate room with a tiny cold water only sink. The bathroom had the tub and larger sink with warm water. The tub was huge with only the typical hand-held shower wand. That was no problem for me but perplexing to my Chicago friend who visited. I quickly learned that if I wanted to bathe on Saturday, I needed to get up early or else I'd need to heat water for the tub.

There were no laundry facilities. I tried to do my laundry on more than one post, but even getting there early, all the washers and dryers would be in use. I finally gave up and bought a washer at the PX that hooked into the kitchen sink and heated its own water. It fit in the tiny kitchen between the sink and stove and worked as a counter space. The previous tenants left open shelves in the kitchen. I got a workbench from IKEA and put it under those shelves. That completed the kitchen.

There were 3 open closets of simple wood framing with shelves and a rod also left by those tenants. They were in each bedroom and in the entrance hall. I got long lace style curtrains from IKEA and attached them to the closets. At that time, anything that was enclosed was counted as a "room" for taxing purposes and Germans moved their kitchens, cabinets and all, with them.

Did I mention that there was no elevator? When my mother visited, she counted the steps, something that never occurred to my then 36 year old self. There were 99. The stairwell was quite wide with handrails on both sides. Anything that needed to go to my apartment was carried up those stairs.

When I brought the workbench up it was in a flat box that wasn't very big, but was very heavy. I had to go one step at a time with it. When my household goods were delivered, they were carried up by very strong German men, often strapped on their backs. Anything I got from the Army's free resources or bought was brought up the same way, including the clothes washer.

There was a tiny balcony off the kitchen with clotheslines. The times they worked for drying were rare due to the consistently gray, cool and damp weather. The sheets were too big for it, period. So I rigged up a clothesline in the extra bedroom from the closet to a part of the window structure. Regardless of season or weather my sheets and anything else I hung on it took 2 days to dry.

My windows were modern like the ones others have described with the tilt opening option. I loved them. I cat sat for a friend who was in a ground floor duplex in Erlangen. She had a patio door and windows that were like that. Neither of us had any screens, but being on the ground floor, she had metal roller shutters (rolladen) on all windows and doors. They were good for keeping the bugs out and for security. I had no window coverings at all, but the previous tenants did leave the apparatus for pull shades. IKEA to the rescue again with cute shades in a blue sky with clouds pattern.

My absolute favorite thing about living in Germany and about traveling in Europe is the wonderful dogs -- especially being able to see them not just outside, but also inside pubs, bars and restaurants. In Instanbul, it's the "feral" (not) cats that beg for food or snuggle up to you when you sit down.

Posted by
2743 posts

I have yet to enter a country that addresses the needs of those with
physical challenges to anywhere near the degree that they are
addressed in the US.

in Switzerland public transit is pretty much entirely wheelchair accessible.

Posted by
21551 posts

Not Swiss, but the European Accessibility Act (EAA), in dealing with facility accessibility, doesn't come close to the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). But the EAA does address a lot of non-facility issues that the ADA was not designed to address

I just walked about a kilometer through Budapest and not one of the 50 or more shops was accessible by ADA definition. Nor was the sidewalk or the street crossings.

And I am not picking on Budapest. I have seen places that are somewhat better, Paris for instance, but still no where close to meeting US requirements for, by and large, unassisted access to all public and private services.

If you are in a wheelchair, I suspect the best place in the world for you to be independent is the U.S.

Posted by
891 posts

One I've noticed more lately...no top sheet. Only the fitted or bottom sheet and a duvet.

The key point here is that duvet covers are changed and washed when the bottom sheets are, so they are basically your sheet.

Posted by
891 posts

But it’s so much more work to stuff a duvet into a cover!

More work than making a bed with an upper sheet and blanket?? ;-)

Posted by
7289 posts

If you are in a wheelchair, I suspect the best place in the world for
you to be independent is the U.S.

Maybe, but only if you have a car and are able to drive. Good luck trying to be independent in North America if you can't drive.

Posted by
21551 posts

In my city you call a bus for the disabled (really a van). They come to your housr. From a door that you can actually open by yourself to the street that is fully accessible where the bus picks you up and takes you to the mall or to work where the sidewalk from the bus to the door and the door is fully accessible. Once there if you need the WC it is also fully accessible.

Here, in Budapest you will also need a car or bus as the walks are impassable. Then you will need two people to come along and lift you into the door and carry you down the stairs to the WC and carry you into the WC and sit you on the pot.

Nope, no comparison.

Posted by
354 posts

Eating pizza with a knife and fork. No pre-sliced pizza anywhere.

Bagging your own groceries at the store after the cashier (sitting) moves items from one cart to another. Then you wheel the cart to the counter where you pack up your stuff in reusable bags (even in the 70s) or purchased bags.

Posted by
470 posts

This thread is so interesting! Since I have just wrapped up a trip with kids, I’ll weigh in with some observations mainly based on family travel:

-More diverse, interesting playgrounds including playgrounds with riskier elements (Switzerland, Italy, Germany).
-Excellent discounts for kids. For my 4 year old, I don’t think we ever had to buy her a ticket on any public transit. Her tickets on the Flybus and our Iceland day tour were both free. Ages 6+ was often half price or a reduced fare.
-Family passes for museums often cost about the same price as 2 adult tickets
-Kids menus were not always available, but when they were they often had some smaller versions of a regular meal (like schnitzel in Berlin).
-Family lanes at airports which allowed us to bypass most lines and board earlier if we wished
-Not kid related, but all corner stores seemed to have a coffee machine that made a decent cappuccino for a great price. Coffee lids are made of cardboard and not plastic.
-Lots of interesting Haribo flavors all over. I was the only one in our group who liked the salty, black licorice Haribo that I found in Iceland.

Posted by
1068 posts

-More diverse, interesting playgrounds including playgrounds with riskier elements (Switzerland, Italy, Germany).

The answer is pretty simple - most European countries have civil law not common law. So insurance is only required to restore you to the position you were in before the accident occurred. And in most countries healthcare for kids is covered by the state. Kids bones heal quickly and the medical costs are covered by the state, so the owners of the playground are never likely to have to make a big payout, hence kids can be kids.

You might be in for a nasty surprise if you are not a European citizen and your kid had a serious accident as you are probably going to be left footing the bills.

Posted by
10854 posts

Another difference spouse and I discussed this am: the door to the toilet room, the WC, is always kept shut in France even when not in use. Instead, you lock the door when you are using it. (Maybe not for just close family, but if guests are in the house, you lock it so no one will walk in on you).
It's very faux pas to leave the WC door open after you leave the room.

I have a mixed group of Americans and French coming over tomorrow, so I am warning the Americans to lock the door for privacy, and to close the door afterwards.

Posted by
2743 posts

Also hat tip to whomever said eating pizza with knife and fork. I've
also noticed (this was in Switzerland) that gourmet burgers -- the
kind stacked with a few ingredients -- also were eaten entirely by
knife and fork. No picking it up and shoving it in the mouth!

It is anyway impossible to pick those up without creating a huge mess.

Posted by
10854 posts

First off, tell them to hold the excessive mayo and ketchup then, cut the burger in half and enjoy.
Then continue eating it with the knife and fork. LOL

Posted by
7196 posts

First off, tell them to hold the excessive mayo and ketchup then, cut the burger in half and enjoy.

Then continue eating it with the knife and fork. LOL

I'll never understand eating a hamburger with knife and fork. What's the point of putting the meat in a bun if you're going to eat it that way? The whole idea of sandwiches (including hamburgers) being in a bun or between two pieces of bread was so that you could pick it up and eat it without utensils.

Oh well, viva la difference!

Posted by
6068 posts

Back to the risk factors, and it's an individual's responsibility to keep one's self safe in Europe-
A guy in Switzerland said the Swiss don't have many warning signs in ski areas. His rationale was that if the ski resort started to tell skiers what to do, they would have to assume responsibilities for warning everyone about all the possible poor decisions folks could make.
Does that seem plausible?
I find it interesting in Europe that castle walls, cliffs, etc have no fences, no signs, no protections keeping folks from making dumb decisions. If you walk on the cliff wall, and go over, it's Darwinism in play.....

Posted by
21551 posts

A guy in Switzerland said the Swiss don't have many warning signs in
ski areas. His rationale was that if the ski resort started to tell
skiers what to do, they would have to assume responsibilities for
warning everyone about all the possible poor decisions folks could
make. Does that seem plausible?

That is actually 100% a risk in the US too.

Posted by
5934 posts

All said and done, I really enjoy my life here. But it isnt better than the US, just different.

This was exactly my feeling when I lived in both Sweden and the UK. Some specific things were better than the US, some specific things were worse, but overall it was mostly just different. You get used to the differences.

With regard to why one might want a top sheet, sometimes the weather is too warm for the duvet. I prefer to have a top sheet so that I can remove the duvet from the bed and sleep under only a sheet when in a hotel room with no AC and no fan and a temperature over 30 degrees C.

When I lived in Stockholm, my apartment had a laundry room in the basement. You had to reserve a time for the room. There was a board in the laundry room with all the days of the month and 3 timeslots of 4 hours each day. You had a lock with your flat number which you locked on the board to reserve your timeslot. The laundry room had 3 washers, 2 tumble dryers, a ”closet” dryer, some rollers (for pressing tablecloths), etc. When it was your timeslot, you got use of the entire room. You typically could only find a timeslot 2 weeks out which meant I only did laundry every other week and I washed everything. It wasn’t uncommon for someone to decline an invitation for a social event because it was during their laundry time. This was 20 years ago and I suspect more people have compact washers in their flats now.

I think the toilet in a separate room makes sense, but it drives me crazy when there is a toilet in a room with no sink and you have to go a different unconnected room to wash your hands.

Posted by
649 posts

Back in the 80s when we lived in Germany and visited other places, like Spain, I was shocked about food on platters in tapas bars sitting out for hours with no refrigeration. It gradually dawned on me maybe my mother being paranoid about botulism occurring rapidly in non refrigerated foods was a bit overblown.

I also continually notice, as a present day tourist, that Europeans take the stairs; elevators are frequently small and out of the way in public places because unless you are in a wheelchair or 102, you take the stairs. It’s not unusual to see parents hoisting strollers up flights of stairs in a very practiced manner. I also notice people in Europe seem slimmer than my fellow Americans.

Posted by
2947 posts

Growing up, the only thing I can remember eating without a fork and knife were tacos. Everything else was fork and knife. My grandmother went to finishing school and after that to Paris for several years to learn to cook. So manners were very much followed in our household, to the "T". I each burgers with my hands, and sometimes pizza, but can still feel my parents and grandparents giving me the look.

Posted by
2176 posts
  • You might be in for a nasty surprise if you are not a European citizen and your kid had a serious accident as you are probably going to be left footing the bills.*

Of course I would be responsible for the bill.

Posted by
354 posts

Curry in the ketchup (Germany).
Airing your duvet every day but hanging it out the window.

Posted by
21551 posts

The San Antonio River Walk is the same. Of voutse only about r feet deep. Also wild in Budapest are the trams trhroughbpedestruan zones with no barriers. Stairs down to metro stations with few or no hand rails. Standing on busses that are traveling at 40mph+ and stopping quickly with little notice. Finally, a lack of lawyers who chase after aĺ of this.

Posted by
1986 posts

Public urination

Naked children

Occasionally combined

Posted by
1986 posts

Did I just write the first draft of a haiku?

Posted by
4839 posts

Lack of ice and ice machines in hotels. My wife always has a glass of ice water by her side at home. Our first trip to Europe was to Rome in 2014 and she asked the guy at our hotel for some ice. He was immediately concerned that she had hurt something and needed to ice it. My wife; being naturally charming explained what it was for and every evening of our stay the hotel had a glass of ice cubes ready for her.

In Scotland in 2022 I really would have liked a fridge or an ice machine. I'd bought a couple of beers from a craft brewery but never could get it cold enough to enjoy a frosty brew.

Narrow roads and tight parking. I've only driven in the UK, and I found narrow roads much more challenging than driving on the left. I'm curious what driving will be like next Fall in the Dordogne region in France.

Posted by
796 posts

Almost no shopping on Sunday in Germany. Everyone deserves a day off!

No Costcos or Sam's. You shop small multiple days per week and their "big" supermakets are about the size of typical US grocery store.

Posted by
1986 posts

There are many massive supermarkets in the ring suburbs of most major cities in Europe. Walmart like affairs. It's just that if you're a certain type of traveler, you don't see them

Posted by
2635 posts

"I'm curious what driving will be like next Fall in the Dordogne
region in France".

Allan, there's no need to worry about driving in the Dordogne as long as you don't hire a bus, because most of the roads you'll take and the villages you'll pass through were built in the days of horse-drawn carriages.

Some examples:

http://tinyurl.com/32cvcp7y

http://tinyurl.com/ybaa68dw

Posted by
649 posts

Way back in the day, the 80s, there used to be ‘long Saturdays’ for stores in German small towns. I don’t remember if it was the first Saturday of the month but it was the one Saturday you were allowed to be open full hours instead of half a day. And of course closed on Sunday. I sort of figured that would be over by now.

Posted by
1974 posts

Rarely screens on windows that will open for fresh air.

This one has always puzzled me. I guess Europeans tolerate bugs more than Americans.

Posted by
7289 posts

For the record, there are 37 Costcos in the United Kingdom and Europe
– 29 in the U.K., four in Spain, two in France and one each in Sweden
and Iceland.

I did look it up, and that is correct. But I also found out that the store in Sweden so far has been a disaster financially. Last year it lost almost €20 million.

Posted by
2743 posts

Rarely screens on windows that will open for fresh air.

Depends. I have never lived in a house without screens. But then I am a bug magnet. In our current house I installed fixed screens on a few windows, and a sliding one on the balcony doors, so I can keep these open in summer...

Posted by
590 posts

Lack of ice and ice machines in hotels.

The other side of this: in the UK personally I and my wife always ask for drinks without ice (what is the American obsession with ice about?). This is ignored probably 80% of the time, and probably 80% of drinks are sent back, but with the “no ice” thing reiterated.

I don’t even think I even bother asking for no ice in the US. I just assume it’s some law that you have to have enough ice in your drink to sink the Titanic. (But I suspect it’s really about filling glasses with cheap frozen water rather than what you actually ordered).

Posted by
1974 posts

I just assume it’s some law that you have to have enough ice in your drink to sink the Titanic.

In the US it is a way to make a greater profit for businesses. You jam a 16 ounce cup with ice and then fill it with soda and you will barely use enough soda to even fill 5 ounces. If you ask for no ice in the US, the owner freaks at how much product he has to pour because it will be almost 16 ounces. That would be almost 3 separate sales.

That is why the US has ice in drinks and the fact we just prefer cold drinks to tepid. It is what you get use to having. Like ice cold beer rather than just tepid beer or eating pizza with your hands instead of a knife and fork. Different strokes for different folks.

Posted by
590 posts

Different strokes for different folks.

Not sure that paying for a litre of cola and getting a third of a litre plus two thirds of a litre of iced water is a good enough deal to make me accepting of the rip off because of cultural differences.

Posted by
1637 posts

"(But I suspect it’s really about filling glasses with cheap frozen water rather than what you actually ordered)."

No, not really, because in most US restaurants non alcoholic drinks are "free" refills. You can get as much as you want and it all will come with a lot of ice.

Posted by
1548 posts

The ice thing bugs me almost as much as mosquitoes on a hot summer night through an unscreened window. The flaw in Bob's logic is when you get food from the drive-thru (no refills) I always ask for No Ice, and I'd say my success rate is about 90 percent. (Fountain soft drinks in the US are already chilled)
I cheerfully and adamantly tell the order taker
"CAFFEINE is more important to me than ice cubes"

Posted by
2743 posts

There are several things to the whole "ice in drinks" thing.

I grew up in a time where soda (coke, fanta etc...) was for kids. I had my last coke when I was 12. After I had my confirmation I had beer and wine, as adults are supposed to.
The whole concept of adults drinking sweet drinks is still a bit weird to me. Adults drinking Coke? I never saw my dad or my mom do that. I will never drink a sweet beverage with a meal.I like fruit juice with breakfast though.
That is how I was raised.

The younger generations do now drink soft drinks. Mostly duet to US influences, And I fear for the health of the population.

And wine and beer you do not drink with Ice in it. You drink it, depending on the type, at fridge, cellar or room temperature.

I think that the US obsession with Ice has the same root as the US obsession with AC. A probably stems from a desire to control the environment, whereas in Europe the attitude is more to adapt.

Posted by
371 posts

I eat sensibly at home, but stuff myself with pastries, beer, frites, and chocolate when I'm in Europe. When I come home I've always lost a significant amount of weight. I guess that walking thing really does work.

Posted by
9184 posts

It is pretty hard to explain to a foreign visitor why, when it's 0℉ outside, we still expect drinks to be full of ice. Many foreigners (and singers) I've met don't think ice-cold drinks are healthy for you.

From my fast food days, I know that fountain dispensers (where syrup and carbonated water are mixed at the tap) are supposed to be calibrated to provide a ratio of syrup to water based on the expectation that there will be some dilution due to the ice. Whether they do that right or not is a different question.

This is my new tell-tale sign that a restaurant overseas is touristy - if they recognize you're an American and automatically bring you a drink with lots of ice.

Posted by
1974 posts

doric8, apparently you never met Leo Getz (Lethal Weapon 2)

One of Pesci's great comedic rants. OK OK OK.

Posted by
8101 posts

In Europe, I’m reminded that smoking (and now, also vaping) is still practiced by lots of people. If you want a table outside, you’re going to be in the smoking section. Getting into a restaurant, cafe, or pub may require getting through a cluster of smokers outside the doorway.

I just don’t encounter many smokers at all at home anymore, even with seemingly a marijuana dispensary on every other corner.

Posted by
2743 posts

Many foreigners (and singers) I've met don't think ice-cold drinks are
healthy for you.

I don't think it is about too much ice being unhealthy. It is about serving drinks to cold rendering them tasteless. I think it is one of those things everybody does in the US because everybody does it...

Posted by
2743 posts

As a European I just learned that some people cannot even conceive of the concept of having a pizza delivered to your table that is not cut...

Posted by
21551 posts

An Aggie walks into a pizza parlor and orders a large pizza. The clerk says do you want that cut into 8 pieces or 16 pieces. The Aggie says, "better make it 8, I dont think I could eat 16".

Posted by
21551 posts

I don't think it is about too much ice being unhealthy. It is about
serving drinks to cold rendering them tasteless. I think it is one of
those things everybody does in the US because everybody does it...

If the Brits drink warm beer, its a cultural thing. If Americans drink cold drinks, its wrong? By the way, ice in beer is common in Thailand. Guess they are wrong on two counts, the ice and it not being warm.

Posted by
5608 posts

If the Brits drink warm beer, its a cultural thing. If Americans drink cold drinks, its wrong?

But we don't drink warm beer. Beer that isn't lagered should be at cellar temperature, ideally 11 - 13c as that's the optimal temperature for cask conditioning. I don't know anyone who would ever claim that 11c is warm. Lager should be served between 5 - 8c. The darker the beer the less cold it should be served in order to fully appreciate the flavours. Serving beer below 4c and you're simply blunting all the flavour so what's the point in drinking it? So yes, Americans drinking ice cold beer can be considered wrong in terms of appreciating beer.

Posted by
21551 posts

Well, maybe I should have said "warmer" and "very much warmer if its an ale" But you made me brush off another often repeated falsehood. And learning is always a good thing. But the point remains.

Posted by
2743 posts

If the Brits drink warm beer, its a cultural thing. If Americans drink
cold drinks, its wrong?

I do not seem to remember getting an ice in my beer in the US. And btw. you have some great beer. You have some awful stuff to (but so does even Belgium).
But the thing that surprised me was always a) lots of ice and b) adults drinking soft drinks and c) people drinking soft drinks with a meal.

Posted by
2743 posts

But we don't drink warm beer. Beer that isn't lagered should be at
cellar temperature, ideally 11 - 13c as that's the optimal temperature
for cask conditioning

Lager is a product of the industrial revolution. It is only after we had mechanical cooling that it became widespread. Ales are the traditional beers. And I love to try out real ales when in the UK. And yes, they should be hand pumped and cellar temperature.
The same thing with lots of Belgian beers which should not be too cold either.

Posted by
21551 posts

What little I know about beer includes that American style larger was developed so that large breweries could ship long distances in warm weather (or I am wrong?). But admittedly not a big beer drinker. Now with American adults drinking soft drinks .... can we call that cultural and be accepting of it? I dont do that much either. And I am not a big fan of liquior either. So maybe wrong discussion for me LOL. But tonight I am off to a birthday party where my choice will be red wine out of a recycled 2L coke bottle (refilled at a shop a few blocks away) or a can of one of the local beers. Guess ..... It will be served with sushi and KFC and probably a few things so hot that there is no way i could eat.

Posted by
21551 posts

I wish I could do some laughing emojis. I know I can be obtuse. Sometimes, for some people when one group does something unexpected out of the norm or just downright confusling it is "wrong" but when another group does something just as confusing, its "cultural" and we shoudl step back and think about that even when it is yucky. That was the point. I screwed it up by being too illinformed to go down the beer rabbit hole.

Egészségére!

Posted by
8101 posts

So, Mr. James E… not so much beer, wine, soft drinks, et. al.. If you’re not then downing mass quantities of tap water, isn’t that what Palinka is for? I suppose Dr,. Pepper is out of the question, but what about tomato juice? Or tea. for God’s sakes?

Posted by
8101 posts

adults drinking soft drinks and c) people drinking soft drinks with a meal.

@WengenK, I just got back from dinner in Sardinia (Italy), at a fantastic restaurant. The people at the table behind me, likely Italians but definitely not Americans, left a Coke can as they went away. Sardinian wine list presented, and somebody had a Coca-Cola with their meal?!? America’s great gift to the world isn’t Freedom, or Capitalism, or Nike shoes, or New York Yankees caps in the wrong colors, or even Marlborough cigarettes (ugh), it’s Coke, apparently. Chilled, in the can, no ice, thank you. Now for spaghetti with clams …

Posted by
139 posts

Unexpected realizations…… none. I have traveled extensively and lived in Europe at one point for 13 years. I learned about living in Europe so I’m sorry but I didn’t have to “realize” anything. I’m an American and always will be but I have a sense of place when I drive down a narrow village street far away from America and know the little house up ahead is home.

P.S. took many years to remember to buy milk at the local Rewe in Germany on Saturday night since the stores are closed Sunday. Oh well…..

Posted by
4839 posts

left a Coke can as they went away. Sardinian wine list presented, and
somebody had a Coca-Cola with their meal?!? America’s great gift to
the world isn’t Freedom, or Capitalism, or Nike shoes, or New York
Yankees caps in the wrong colors, or even Marlborough cigarettes
(ugh), it’s Coke, apparently.

Thank you America, I'll take a cold coke (well, diet Pepsi for me) any day over wine. Ive never had a glass of wine that I've enjoyed, ever.

Posted by
7289 posts

I eat sensibly at home, but stuff myself with pastries, beer, frites,
and chocolate when I'm in Europe. When I come home I've always lost a
significant amount of weight. I guess that walking thing really does
work.

It certaibly does. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPUlgSRn6e0

In Europe, I’m reminded that smoking (and now, also vaping) is still
practiced by lots of people.

Smoking is one of those topics where you really can't talk about "in Europe". The rate of smoking varies a lot between different countries. In general, the further east and south you travel, the more people smoke. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Tobacco_consumption_statistics

Posted by
1757 posts

Same, Gail. I loathe the taste of both beer and wine.

Posted by
21551 posts

Someone posted on buildings being too hot in the Winter. They are generally to hot in the Summer too.

In the summer its less than stellar air conditioning and it’s the high cost of electricity to run the units.

In the winter, most of us tourists hang out in historic parts of town, and those old buildings have some peculiarities when it comes to heating. Once you heat up those three-foot-thick masonry walls they hold the heat and release it back out when the radiators are switched off. No way to rapidly compensate for changes in outside temperature or changes in the number of occupants (who generate quite a bit of heat). Then they are a bit stuffy because there is no enforcement of indoor air quality measures like we have to deal with in the US these days.

And totally off subject who knows how the ventilation system in 100 year old theater works?

Posted by
2743 posts

Same, Gail. I loathe the taste of both beer and wine.

I haven't drunk coke since I once got violently sick from one as a kid. To me all those sugary drinks are well, far to sugary. I also do not put sugar in tea or coffee, or even in yogurt. There is far to much sugar nowadays in the Western diet.

So it is a good thing to raise kids so that they are not so dependent on sugar. We were raised that way. I am currently in Florence, and do not see a lot of soft drinks on the tables. We just went to Lucca today, and half way there a whole group of teenagers boarded the train. Half of them were Dutch, the other half Italian. We later saw them in a bar, all with a big pint of beer in front of them. Looks like the kids will be alright.

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21551 posts

Everything of value WAS invented in the US .... or put to practical application by Americans.

Except the gömböc; which of yet has no practical application. But Americans are working on it.

Probably the most successful example of how Americans have taken something useless and perfected it has been that of Self-deprecation, to wit, the previous post.

Posted by
8374 posts

I have been amazed at their use of toilet paper that's closely resembles sandpaper. (Russia)

Lights in Venice hotels with less than 10 watt bulbs.

Hotels where showers are optional and not part of the base room rate. Provided towels are tiny and very thin.

Combined washer/dryer instructions are written in Hungarian--and illegible. Clothes almost come out of the dryer burning.

Glass shower stalls that are 30" x 30"--where a 6'4" 240 pound American has to fit in that tiny space

Pedestrians returning from a 3 hour meal get into a big, loud argument underneath your hotel room window. A trash can of water is launched out the room window after they refuse to be quiet.

When a German fraulein and an American driver meet head in the Ausgang lane at a McDonald's restaurant, and neither yields to the other. Fraulein sticks her head out and says "Back it up. You're not in America any longer." And the American calls her a nasty name.

Posted by
11895 posts

Combined washer/dryer instructions are written in Hungarian--and illegible. Clothes almost come out of the dryer burning.

The international symbols for each machine function are supposed to make it feasible to operate the machines without language instructions, like IKEA directions. Can’t say as I am very fluent in laundry symbols, though there are many online guides.

Posted by
4839 posts

Based on the swearing I do, I'm not very fluent in Ikea either.

Posted by
5608 posts

Combined washer/dryer instructions are written in Hungarian--and illegible

This is where I find translation apps on my phone are invaluable, using the camera mode to translate as you hover over the controls saved my clothes during a villa stay in Greece last year.

Posted by
21551 posts

Mine were obscure icons tgat made absolutely no sense. Through trial and error i got a combination of buttins that worked and tgen figured out how to set them to a memory button. Everything gets washed the same now. Takes 3.5 hors per tiny load

Posted by
2743 posts

I am an European, and always rinse my dishes. When washing by hand I want to basins, and the second one I will fill with clean water. But I also think it depends on what the hardness of the water is. Just letting your dishes dry on a rack works in some areas, but not in others.

But then I have had a dishwasher most of my life. The only times I need to hand wash the dishes is when camping or sailing. And then I again always use two basins.

One thing I seem to hear a lot is that European dishwashers are a lot better than US ones. Ours will get a Fonduepot with burned in cheese clean without issues...

Oh, and yes, there was a time that the US was pretty much better at everything. My grandfather co-founded a business that started by importing radio parts from the US, as those were the best. He also always drove American cars. (The company still exists, and is currently one of the big players in digital projection for movie theatres). When European railways modernised in the 20 and 30ies the model were US railways. Railway electrification in Belgium and the Netherlands was inspired by US interurbans for example.

But these days are over. Especially the US government seems to be unable to get pretty much anything done these days...

Posted by
139 posts

This seems to be a thread of comparison, judgement, enthusiasm and “joyful” whining even spreading to new “realizations” about America. I live in France is pretty dark at night. I’ve watched the ISS pass over, seen satellites, meteors and glorious fields of stars. No unexpected realizations needed to know how lucky I’ve felt over the last dozen years when I sit outside on a starry night.

Candidly I’ve sat out some rocket attacks in a hostile part of the world thus in the big scheme of things dishwashers, bathrooms, tipping, and any other realizations here really
don’t matter. Peace and quiet is priceless!

Posted by
21551 posts

This seems to be a thread of comparison, judgement, enthusiasm and
“joyful” whining.

It does tend to concentrate on the negatives a bit, but it does do it in a playful way.

Unexpected realizations in Europe: After moving to my home in Europe, how little I would miss having a car.

Posted by
5074 posts

WengenK, that’s how I washed dishes in Japan 40 years ago (me and most people) - 2 basins. I suspect most homes have dishwashers now. :)

Also unexpected - I had no idea how much I would love eating at small occasionally-wobbly tables outside.

Posted by
11895 posts

Unexpected realizations in Europe: After moving to my home in Europe, how little I would miss having a car.

We loved being car-free when we lived in Rome! Now, one of the highlights of our annual 8 week trip is not driving.

Posted by
5608 posts

Has anyone mentioned that Europeans don’t rinse when washing dishes at the sink?

What...all 750 million of them?

Posted by
15255 posts

Mostly all a matter of acculturation if certain practices relative culture shock (not possible in Europe, never felt that) bother you if they are not what you are used to:

Refreshing not to be served an "ice cold beer" when you order a beer , be it a draft or a bottle, especially that annoying ice cold bottle, in Germany and Austria.

Hot milk if you want to add milk to your morning coffee as part of the hotel breakfast in Paris, instead of adding cold milk to the hot cup of coffee.

Certain things, ie, behaviour, you don't do...period, eg, taking food or drink after breakfast back to your room in a family run small hotel/Pension.

Posted by
1444 posts

After moving to my home in Europe, how little I would miss having a car.

I haven't owned a car for over five years. I found I just wasn't using it here in London because public transport does most of what I need it to do. My car would sit in the street and end up covered in half an inch of tree sap in the summer, and I'd end up with a flat battery any time I did want to drive it because it hadn't been run in two weeks.

Before I moved to London in 2009 I had owned somewhere in the region of fifty different cars (old Saabs were my thing mainly).

I've been considering buying my first motorcycle in my fifties just to have something mechanical around.

Posted by
5608 posts

The only problem with public transport is.......the public.

After a career in the police I find I just don't like other people (with few exceptions) 😄

Posted by
1444 posts

I think walking places is a good alternative to public transport to a greater degree in European cities generally more than North America. Everything I need on a daily basis is pretty much within walking distance where I live. You may still encounter some people though JC!

I like being with other people on the bus and train, for the most part. I find it quite interesting to look at all the different people. Culturally, I think it has shifted even more to people being engrossed in their phones in recent years. I prefer to sit and look out the window often and that can feel a bit odd when you look at what everyone else is doing.

Posted by
1961 posts

I love this topic! All the differences between Europe and the US make travel so FUN!

On our last trip (France) I was reminded of the public bathrooms that are automatically "washed" every so few minutes between users.

We had two BnB rooms with no key or way to lock our door. Both were very old chateaus.

Posted by
21551 posts

This is true where I live in Europe and I suspect more true than not in much of Europe: Amazon is expensive. Order by ____ and receive your package by 10am the following day? Not on your life, figure a week at best. You have to be home to receive the package. Nothing left at the door (just doesnt work in an urban environment). If you arent home it goes off to some holding office across town. Then if it is large you have to carry a box on the metro. Good news, it deters shopping and saves money.

Posted by
21551 posts

Again I am certain it varies by country.

Privacy. Imagine the outcry if every street in the US were watched on a government camera like they are in England? Imagine where "freedom of speech" has limitations beyond safety. There was a court case in England a few years ago where the court forbid the new from covering it.

Identification. I love telling Europeans that the US has no required national ID card. They just cant wrap their heads aroud that concept. In my country of residence a citizen has to carry a national ID and a residence card showing where he has registered with the government as his home address. Picture an American being told they had to have those. I am not a citizen so I only have to carry my US Passport, my Residency Card and my Address Card.

Posted by
16796 posts

The only problem with public transport is.......the public.

After a career in the police I find I just don't like other people (with few exceptions) 😄

I didn't have a career in the police but after ten years of travel, I agree.

Posted by
21551 posts

Interesting point of view. I sort of like being part of the local masses. Never heard of any crime on our public transportation. Never seen anything disturbing. Well there was the guy last night that carried an office desk swivel chair onto the tram. But there arent many options here so everyone just got out of his way.

Posted by
5074 posts

You carried an office desk chair on the tram???
Did you have to buy it a ticket since it’s not over 65?

Posted by
3688 posts

The last timeI was in Paris, I saw most people actually reading books on the buses and metro.
Not looking at phones.
So refreshing!
I also saw a lady with a 6 foot step ladder on a bus.
She just smiled at me and shrugged as if to say “Well, how else am I going to get it home?”

Posted by
1444 posts

Again I am certain it varies by country. Privacy. Imagine the outcry if every street in the US were watched on a government camera like they are in England? Imagine where "freedom of speech" has limitations beyond safety. There was a court case in England a few years ago where the court forbid the new from covering it.

I think you're correct it does vary by country. Particularly large is that variation between the UK and the US. I think when you're using language like "government camera" to describe the situation you've sort of got the wrong end of the stick culturally.

On the particular subject of CCTV surveillance, for the most part it's a good thing. If you've ever been in a medium sized British town at pub closing time on a Friday night you would know that it can get quite lairy and CCTV helps cops keep a lid on it with limited manpower. JC can probably speak to this with more authority than me as I'm sure he's been out on duty in Portsmouth and had some help from CCTV to catch things as they're kicking off. Speed cameras on the road mean that you don't have to deal with a cop for minor traffic infractions. Speed traps are a thing of the past here. Getting into the way of thinking that the government are somehow using CCTV maliciously is entirely possible, but goes hand in hand with the fringes of tinfoil hattery in my opinion.

I don't think it's fitting to get into the "my paradigm of freedom is better than your paradigm of freedom so na na na" discussion. The US looks a bit authoritarian and militaristic to me from the outside sometimes, what with the pledge, twitchy cops on simple traffic stops, and fighter jets flying over baseball games. I take great pleasure in jaywalking to my heart's content in London :) It's just different. Collectivism vs individualism and a whole manner of other differences that have shaped societies.

ETA: ID isn't compulsory in the UK (yet!). You don't even need to be carrying your driving licence if you're driving a car here, which maybe differs from some states?

Posted by
21551 posts

I don't think it's fitting to get into the "my paradigm of freedom is
better than your paradigm of freedom so na na na" discussion.

I absolutely agree. The intent here is realizations, not judgments. In a democratic society, for the most part, people choose what works best in their culture. I have no judgment on that. I was pointing out how Americans might react if the same thing was attempted to be implemented here. Just cultural differences.

The US looks a bit authoritarian and militaristic to me from the
outside sometimes, what with the pledge, twitchy cops on simple
traffic stops, and fighter jets flying over baseball games. I take
great pleasure in jaywalking to my heart's content in London :) It's
just different. Collectivism vs individualism and a whole manner of
other differences that have shaped societies.

Just like you might expect my perceptions to be skewed by the quantity and quality of the news I receive about the UK, I understand your perception being a bit skewed for the same reason. Even that I write off to a matter of perception and without judgment.

But realizing these things does present opportunities to think and consider and look for for what might work better or be avoided. It is one of the benfits of travel. You get to see and experience things you hadnt imagined and then think about how they might fit in elsewhere.

EDIT: I had here a mention of a discussion I had about ranch life in Texas with a Hungarian. Apparently life on a ranch is something that brings out the judgmental side of folks and i dont want to wreck the thread so I pulled it.

Posted by
5608 posts

JC can probably speak to this with more authority than me as I'm sure he's been out on duty in Portsmouth and had some help from CCTV to catch things as they're kicking off.

Absolutely! Public order patrol on a Friday and Saturday nights was greatly assisted by the controllers in the local CCTV room as we could be diverted to incidents as soon as they developed which had the benefit of often diffusing occurences before they escalated. CCTV has also been hugely beneficial in terms of helping investigations and solving crime. I've spent countless times in the CCTV room and the monitoring has never been for governmental purposes but solely about public protection and crime prevention. The operators are simply looking out for the public, there's nothing nefarious about it.

Posted by
21551 posts

Didnt mean to imply it was nefarious. Maybe you would have to grow up in my culture to understand why it would be "interesting" to an American. Again, no judgment. Just an observation.

Posted by
1444 posts

Yes. I'm all for cultural differences.

Just like you might expect my perceptions to be skewed by the quantity and quality of the news I receive about the UK, I understand your perception being a bit skewed for the same reason. Even that I write off to a matter of perception and without judgment.

I was just listing some outlying things that might make me go "woah" on occasion to make a point in the discussion. I have quite a broad understanding of American culture (if I say so myself lol) and I don't think of those examples as defining. I spent 15 years or so in daily newspapers so I've learned to read between the lines when I'm consuming media. My only personal experience of the US is 10 days ducking and diving with the lads in NYC in 2007, being really bad RS tourist, so that's hardly representative. Of my best American friends in London, one grew up in SF to hippy parents and the other is from a farm in Missouri. Both are what you might describe as raving libtards after decades in Europe though :)

in Texas, we killled things and ate them.

I'm not a big gun fan, it's a real shame how many people in the US are killed annually that don't need to be. The 2nd amendment isn't going anywhere though and that gives Americans the right to have guns for utility or fun. The lobbying system and the pro and against stances are too big a discussion for here. Just when you're applying American standards to Europe, keep in mind cultural differences. The UK definitely isn't crying out for 2nd amendment type laws.

Although the Overton Window has shifted to the right somewhat in the UK, US media still tends to default further to the right than centreist opinion in the UK. The stuff on law and order and issues around multiculturalism that you may read about in US media may be slightly off.

Posted by
8101 posts

ID isn't compulsory in the UK (yet!). You don't even need to be carrying your driving licence if you're driving a car here, which maybe differs from some states?

That’s a surprise. If pulled over here, a driver must show their driver license and proof of insurance. Lack of either one (and the documentation better be current, not expired with the renewal Proof of Insurance simply not yet placed in the glove box), and there will be issues.

Posted by
21551 posts

Just when you're applying American standards to Europe, keep in mind
cultural differences.

Who applied American standards in this discussion? I reserve my right to notice differences and at times be surprised by them.

The gun issue was about living on a ranch not the constitutional law. I guess there are parts of life in the US, living on a ranch for instance, that cant go without judgment from the outside.

Well it was a fun thread, sad we cant acknowledge differences without running down a rabit hole, off the topic of travel experiences, that will get the thread deleted.

Posted by
21551 posts

Cyn, its their way I guess. But me in Texas, like you, would end up in front of the local Justice of the Peace for driving with no proof of license and no proof of insurance. I wonder if in the UK they are required to obtain a national ID even if they are not required to carry that or a drivers license?

Posted by
1444 posts

It is still sort of on topic as a sort of cultural insight into the UK for visitors, from my perspective at least. I'm sorry if I said anything out of turn. I was just ruminating on some issues as respectfully as I could.

I'm not sure what you mean about living on a ranch and constitutional issues. No offence intended if there was any.

Mods, please feel free to edit or delete my posts if necessary to maintain the integrity of the thread. It's a good one and Mr É is doing a good job of keeping it lively.

Posted by
1444 posts

in the UK they are required to obtain a national ID even if they are not required to carry that or a drivers license?

No. There was a fairly major attempt to introduce it a couple of decades ago and it went away, but who know what the future holds?

Posted by
2743 posts

You carried an office desk chair on the tram???

When I was a student in the Netherlands we once helped a colleague move towns using public transit. At that time Students got a free pass for public transit, and he had just invited everyone to a party at his old address. Then when there we were told that the party was going to be at his new address, and you know, since we were going that way if we just could pick up something, a piece of furniture, a box of books etc..., and carry it with us :-)
Was great fun actually.

Living in Wengen I have now also transported all kinds of things on the trains. A freezer. A 19 inch computer rack...

Posted by
1444 posts

cant go without judgment from the outside.

Just so we're clear, I think you may have edited a typo which made it difficult for me to work out what you meant, I'm not judging you. I support Texas ranchers through and through :) Sorry if it came across otherwise. I didn't mean to assume you were applying US standards here in Europe. Like I said, this is a good thread and spirited enough to be interesting to read, without meaning any disrespect to each other.

Posted by
5608 posts

That’s a surprise. If pulled over here, a driver must show their driver license and proof of insurance. Lack of either one (and the documentation better be current, not expired with the renewal Proof of Insurance simply not yet placed in the glove box), and there will be issues.

In the UK the police have access to a database that lists whether a vehicle is insured or not. They also have access to the DVLA to establish if someone holds a drivers licence. Such checks can be undertaken at the roadside.

Posted by
1444 posts

To bring the thread slightly more back on topic, this is from a UK perspective, how do visitors feel about jaywalking? Do you do it? Do you watch Brits do it in horror? I guess it's a bit more difficult when the traffic is coming the "wrong" way.

As I said earlier in the thread, I do take a little bit of pleasure in jaywalking when I need to. My street joins to quite a busy main two lane road. Quite often I'm taking quite a bit of a risk to cross the road. Sometimes I've found myself in the middle of the road with double decker buses passing on either side.

Car drivers are quite ready to give way (yield) to pedestrians more than you'd expect in London. If the traffic is moving slowly enough I can nip across the road quite easily using hand gestures and body language. Sometimes cars will give way when I'm crossing an intersection in a way that makes me do an embarrassed jog and wave when they didn't really need to stop.

I was really conscious of tourists not jaywalking when I went for a walk in central London recently. Several times I found myself squeezing through crowds at crosswalks, trying to keep a good pace on my Strava.

I don't think voluntary crosswalks exist in the US? Like, without lights? The zebra crossing is quite a British thing that seems to work well 99% of the time in London.

Posted by
21551 posts

GerryW, no problem. "voluntary cross walks"? What does that even mean? No one forces you to cross? We have with and without lights. We dont have zeee-bra or zeh-bra stripes, we settle for 2 parallel lines to conserve paint. Some cities do enforce j-walking laws and most dont. We also dont have a zeta in our alphabet. We replaced it with a Z.

My stuff is full of typos and my phone only spell checks in Hungarian. Or thats my excuse (and true).

Posted by
1444 posts

Ah. I wasn't sure if you have crosswalks where cars have to stop to let pedestrians cross. That's what a zebra crossing is. Identified by their zebra strips and belisha beacons.

Posted by
21551 posts

I thought zebea stripes had something to do with the Beatles.

Cars almost always have the right if way.

I find cars in Budspest more likely to stop for you than cars in Texas.

Posted by
8101 posts

In the UK the police have access to a database that lists whether a vehicle is insured or not. They also have access to the DVLA to establish if someone holds a drivers licence

In the USA, presenting the driver license serves to confirm the identity of the person driving, and it’s immediately clear whether that person is actually licensed. The insurance proof is about the driver, for liability, not for the vehicle and collision coverage.

Colorado also issues an I.D. card for non-drivers who want one. That can be helpful for cashing a check or confirming age when purchasing something with an age requirement.

Posted by
8101 posts

At least one crosswalk (on a hill that might present more stopping issues) in Wheat Ridge, Colorado has flashing lights. It’s only been there for about 5 years. I wonder if a prior accident caused its installation, or if someone lobbied the government to get it. I think there may also be done around schools.

Pedestrians are supposed to use intersections, and if there’s not a crossing signal, they ostensibly have the right of way, but it makes sense to let vehicles go by before stepping into the street. You may be in the right, but 3 tons of steel can be a problem if there’s an impact.

Winter Park, Colorado has a couple of crosswalks across the main street, a U.S. highway where the speed limit is reduced from 55 MPH to 35, with standing signs positioned in the street to make them more prominent. The signs say “State Law - Yield to (walking pedestrian image) in cross walk.” Two intersections also have traffic lights with Walk/Don’t Walk signals. Nevertheless, a half block from either of these, people (usually appear to be tourists who don’t even bother to look both ways before crossing) stroll out into the street, when a safer place is available a very short distance away.

Fraser, Colorado, just down the highway, has a crosswalk that had flags on either side for a pedestrian to carry while crossing. People used the crosswalk, but not often the colored flag. Those may have gone away.

Posted by
8101 posts

Jaywalking, or originally, Jay Walking was a term originally coined in Kansas City. A “Jay” was an ignorant or unsophisticated person. The emerging automobile industry in the U.S. promoted the term, and the idea that cars should have more right to the streets and roads than pedestrians.

I cut across several streets in London and surrounds last month, generally when there was no traffic. It can be quite efficient.

I have to say that, increasingly, there are now Jaybikers and Jayscooters, which are a hazard to both motorists and walkers.

Posted by
1444 posts

I found a story about the flags at crossings elsewhere in CO, Pagoda Springs. Colorado law does seemingly state that drivers should yield to pedestrians on crosswalks. I've linked to the timestamp video.
https://youtu.be/XDaWaO0uZDg?si=GG7btmGykWRH_H1n&t=443

The guy in the video seems upset about having to give a little wave. It's polite to acknowledge someone giving way to you here. When I'm crossing the road in a risky manner, sometimes a pre-emptive wave of thanks before someone has properly yielded makes sure they do, which is a bit cheeky. If you're crossing in front of motorcyclists and cyclists letting them know you've seen them with your body language helps. Their worst fear is pedestrians that haven't seen them.

Posted by
8101 posts

GerryM, that’s a typo. It’s Pagosa Springs, close to Wolf Creek, the ski area that has the deepest snow in Colorado.

The guy in the video is Kyle Clark, a news anchor and reporter with Channel 9 in Denver. He’s been doing his evening, 6:00 PM newscast, called “Next” instead of the 6:00 News, with a folksier approach, improving the world one story at a time. For the 10:00 newscast, he puts his necktie back on and his verbal presentation is less casual.

Posted by
1444 posts

I was just about to correct that as I was watching the video again :)

He was upset about the wave, but I can see his point. The idea of a magic flag that you can make the traffic stop with appeals to me though.

6:00 PM newscast, called “Next” instead of the 6:00 News, with a folksier approach, improving the world one story at a time.

Well it works for the internet. He got my attention half way around the world with his flag story thanks to you.

Posted by
8101 posts

The fact that we need signs telling drivers that it’s a State Law, not nearly a suggestion, reinforces that all means necessary are sometimes needed so somebody can get across across a street. Flags are an attempt at visibility. A wave just makes the world a kindler, gentler place, if even for a moment. I did that in London, in zebra crossings. Often it was returned.

Especially in heavily touristed areas in Colorado, drivers, both tourists and residents, seem focused on getting where they’re going, with minimal interference. Often being in more rural places, highway speeds are high, and reaction times are lengthened. It seems that for many, entering the occasional town, having to slow down for just a moment before speeding up again is a big imposition. Rental vehicles in Colorado now have red and white license plates - watch out for those.

Pedestrians also are sometimes oblivious to the hazards they can present if not being aware of their surroundings. It seems that the bigger the pickup truck, the less courteous the driver can be (lots of exceptions, but there does seem to be a trend), both to pedestrians and to other vehicles.

Posted by
5074 posts

GerryM, this week I have been cheerfully watching all the people in Manchester, London, and Chichester jaywalk. And, in the interest of observing cultural norms, have cheerfully joined them. LOL.

Wengen, I love the story of apartment moving on the train!

Posted by
8101 posts

Back to a realization in Europe, although not necessarily unexpected: There are a LOT fewer pickup trucks, and the ones there are smaller than at home. There was one dark green Chevy Silverado in a remote part of Norway last fall, and one Ford F-150 in England last month. The huge pickups, including Dodge Rams, aren’t as ubiquitous as here. The semi’s on highways, though, seem even bigger in Europe - maybe that’s because everything else on the road is so much smaller by comparison. A Mack or Kenworth in the USA is huge, but they share the road with Suburbans and Wagoneers.

Posted by
1444 posts

There are a LOT fewer pickup trucks, and the ones there are smaller than at home.

It's just not really a thing here. The biggest sold on the UK domestic market is probably a Ford Ranger. Mitsubishi L200 and Toyota Hilux are popular when you get out into the countryside with farmers now that Land Rover don't make a car that suits them. Tradespeople use vans and generally one wouldn't think of a pickup for leisure or commuting.

The Netherlands is one place you might see more full size pickups. There has been an underlying American car culture there since WWII, when I believe the liberating forces left a lot of cars behind.

There's a massive American car culture in Sweden. They go mad for huge full size sedans from the 50's, 60's and 70's. There's a whole subculture around ratty old American cars.

The semi’s on highways, though, seem even bigger in Europe

Cabover tractors with a big flat front are more common here rather than American trucks with a long hood. Maybe they look bigger. Weight and length of trucks has some variation across Europe, but I think are on average pretty much on par with the US.

Posted by
8101 posts

GerryM, the massive pickup truck thing isn’t a thing most places, but is in parts of the U.S. I believe it’s a Macho thing, and some boys and men need to make their trucks even bigger than factory original, with giant tires and a jacked-up suspension. Getting into one must involve some major acrobatic moves. If the biggest thing on the road denotes a driver with the most power, then maybe they can feel good about themselves, but superiority comes with horrible gas mileage. Hopefully they can see pedestrians crossing in front of them.

Posted by
8101 posts

The American Car following in Sweden is interesting. I’ve been made aware of a big SAAB collector group here in Colorado, with cars going back from the 1950’s until the year they stopped being made in the 2011. We had a 2005 9-3, but don’t anymore. Britain and Italy both seem to have their fair share of SAABs still on the road, and Volvos, of course.

Posted by
1444 posts

I wouldn't go in as heavy as that on pickup owners. We may have a few pickup owners here on the forum that are perfectly reasonable people :) Vehicles even the size of an F-150 aren't practical in Europe, with the cost of gas and the size of the roads. You're probably going to need two spaces at Tesco to park one :)

Without meaning to stray off topic too much, I have owned 20-something Saabs over the years, 99, 900, 9000 and one 9-3. I always enjoyed the little bits of quirky Swedish design and the practicality.

I haven't owned in a car in over 5 years though, it's an expense as a leisure item which I haven't been able to justify. It's easy to get by without a car in most European cities, save for the occasional hankering to drive to Ikea or cruise around in an old Saab listening to the radio.

Posted by
8101 posts

There are certainly upstanding pickup truck drivers everywhere, men and women. Many drive work trucks, and for others, it’s their daily driver. There just seem to be many (you know them when you encounter them on the road) who primarily exude a nasty tough-guy image, and project through their truck and driving style. Oversized truck, gargantuan tires that spray water over everything they pass in the rain and in melting snow, menacing decals plastered over the back window, and many with a metal or plastic object dangling from the trailer hitch, in the shape of testicles. Really?!? Yes. It’s more than simply transportation for these people. Some also gave a “rolling coal” setup on their exhaust, if it’s a diesel, which spews massive, extra-dark exhaust behind/beside the truck. Bystanders and other (weaker, less significant) motorists, deal with it! I sure haven’t witnessed the same thing anywhere in several European countries, but it’s rampant among a certain group of American pickup truck drivers. I wonder if many of those trucks actually get driven off-road, or if they go the same places as Smart cars, only more obnoxiously.

Posted by
8101 posts

One more thing about the crosswalk flags in Colorado, and an item in Europe that was an unexpected realization but with the same intention of offering greater visibility and safety - mandatory yellow vests in a rental car. The car we rented in Italy on our trip last month had a safety kit, including that vest. The fine print on the rental contract mentioned the penalty charges they would issue if the vest wasn’t returned with the car. Do rental car customers in Italy steal yellow vests, like it’s some fashion from Milan? Apparently there need to be measures to prevent disappearance of safety vests.

Posted by
1444 posts

One other (maybe slightly boring) observation I'll make on the transport theme is jake brakes on semis. You won't hear them on trucks in Europe. It seems to be fine for semi trucks to make as much noise as possible with them (and straight pipes billowing black smoke) in the US.

Posted by
1444 posts

mandatory yellow vests in a rental car. The car we rented in Italy on our trip last month had a safety kit, including that vest. The fine print on the rental contract mentioned the penalty charges they would issue if the vest wasn’t returned with the car. Do rental car customers in Italy steal yellow vests, like it’s some fashion from Milan? Apparently there need to be measures to prevent disappearance of safety vests.

People will steal anything :) The same probably goes for the warning triangle. It's never been legislated for in the UK, but there's certainly some countries across the EU where the mandatory safety equipment rules are enforced quite tightly. I think you have to have a full spare set of bulbs in France?

Back in my youth a hi-viz vest could be quite fashionable I suppose. The guys in a hi-viz vest with no shirt were often the ones that were going the hardest at the rave.

I acquired a hi-viz vest in the trunk of a car that had been to Italy with its previous owner. I still have it in case of emergencies :) Thinking about it, I also own a couple that I kept as "souvenirs" from jobs I worked. So yes, people will steal anything.

Posted by
2743 posts

I acquired a hi-viz vest in the trunk of a car

Don't keep that in the trunk. Suppose the cops stop you along the freeway and ask you to show you where you have the hi-viz vest. So you get out and walk to the trunk, and presto, you just have committed a traffic violation, leaving you car when stopped along the freeway not wearing a hi-viz vest...

Posted by
2743 posts

Back to a realization in Europe, although not necessarily unexpected:
There are a LOT fewer pickup trucks, and the ones there are smaller
than at home.

A big difference are the rules for driving licences. A standard driving licence is good for 3,5t, and limitting the GVM to that on a big US light truck means that you will not have a lot of useful payload capacity. So a Ford F150 does not make a good working vehicle over here.
For a tradesmen a Transit or Sprinter is more useful, and many will have a C1 licence, good for 7,5 T

Posted by
2743 posts

Jaywalking, or originally, Jay Walking was a term originally coined in
Kansas City. A “Jay” was an ignorant or unsophisticated person. The
emerging automobile industry in the U.S. promoted the term, and the
idea that cars should have more right to the streets and roads than
pedestrians.

That is another major difference. You should assume in Europe that as a car driver you significantly less rights than as a pedestrian or cyclist. In Switzerland for example if you are involved as a car driver in an accident with a fatality you will be charged with at least manslaughter. Even if the pedestrian carries the blame. Even if the pedestrian threw themself at your car to commit suicide...

So when driving in Switzerland, drive as if pedestrians and cyclists are mines, that will explode and kill you if you get to close.

Posted by
2743 posts

The only problem with public transport is.......the public.

The public on public transit is often very nice. Lots of young beautiful people, especially on friday nights. Stations make good people watching places.

Posted by
21551 posts

Life appears to come with more, and more complicated, rules in parts of Europe.

So drivers license rules are universal in Europe? The vest rule is universal in Europe?

Posted by
2743 posts

Life appears to come with more, and more complicated, rules in parts
of Europe. So drivers license rules are universal in Europe? The vest
rule is universal in Europe?

Driving licence categories are pretty much standardized in Europe.
Rules for equipment are not. For example in Belgium cars must have a fire extinguisher on board. That is not the case everywhere. (Even though having one has come in handy at one occasion in my life....)

Posted by
21551 posts

I was amazed at how old a person had to be to get a drivers license in Australia. And the steps of the licenses with different restrictions by age. Have no idea the requirements in Hungary.

In Texas its 16 and go have fun (with a very few restrictions) and up to a 26,000 lb GVWR non-commercial vehicle. That would include ever F-type imaginable.

Posted by
16796 posts

Mr. E, can you imagine the rioting if Texas limited who could drive a F-100?

Posted by
21551 posts

They don't sell as many F100s as they do 3/4 ton trucks.

Another realization. I woke this morning in my tiny flat on a side street between two tourist hot spots, walked out my front door onto the street, saw the tourists, and wondered what the he!! am I doing here. Then I walked 200m to Andrassy ut and realized that there was no place in the US, maybe Europe, with this beauty, style, ambiance. Answered my question.

Posted by
8101 posts

jake brakes on semis. You won't hear them on trucks in Europe. It seems to be fine for semi trucks to make as much noise as possible with them (and straight pipes billowing black smoke) in the US.

It’s not fine in the U.S. - there are some places with signs prohibiting them (the noisy engine brakes), but not everywhere. And smoking of any kind seems less tolerated more and more here than in Europe, yet it happens. Some do it more than others.

Posted by
9184 posts

As I understand it, in Germany, to get a drivers license one is required to go to driving school at their own expense. Is that true in other countries in Europe? What a great idea. Here, it seems most people get their training from video games.

The Ford F-150 is made here in my hometown, and it's an important part of the local economy. It's a well-known fact that the majority are bought for non-work purposes by suburban cowboys.

What I dont like about rampant jaywalking, is that it trains children to do the same.

Posted by
9415 posts

First trip was 1972. Started in Amsterdam.

Surprised that eggs, bacon and toast weren’t served for breakfast but canned pears, sliced cheeses and mystery meats were.

Also discovered as I traveled around Europe…

Pull handle toilets, hot water faucets weren’t always on the left, shower stalls were rare, learning to use public transport ( native California who was driving by 16 ) trying to comprehend the metric system, all the different currencies. Beautiful public parks, signboards outside restaurants with pictures of food or menus. That I could have a beer. That I had to leave my passport at the front desk. That room keys came with huge key chains. No screens on hotel windows. No top sheets on beds. That the view from the Eiffel Tower wasn’t that spectacular but everything about the Rodin Museum was.
That seeing a number of the Impressionists paintings in one room at the Museum D’Orsay would make me cry. That the Night Watch was so large and the Mona Lisa so small. That my high school French sucked. That I fell in love with London and enjoyed Guinness.

EDIT: Unisex bathrooms in Amsterdam. That moment best forgotten.

Posted by
1444 posts

But in "Smokey and the Bandit" I saw ....

Haha yes. Smokey and The Bandit was a great movie, along with The Cannonball Run and Any Which Way But Loose, all movies I enjoyed when I was under ten years old.

I do actually know my Cummins from my Detroit from my CAT, my Eaton from my Allison, and have a decent understanding (I think) of the relationship America has with diesel power compared to Europe. Semi trucks (lorries in British English) haven't traditionally used exhaust braking (except in very heavy haulage) so don't make as much noise. Rolling coal isn't a thing people do in Europe for the most part. It's my impression that it might be a bit of a nightmare if you live by a highway with a hill in the US, with semis jake braking all night. Not really an issue in Europe.

Posted by
1444 posts

Can't remember the last time I heard it or saw smoke. Very 1970's.

I like to watch truck pulling competitions from the deep south, just for the smoke and thrown rods.

Posted by
1444 posts

On the topic of smoking of a different kind (have we covered it elsewhere in the thread?) it must be a bit of a culture shock for some from North America to come to Europe and see how many people are smoking. I get the impression it's much more normal here.

I still smoke out in public. I'm more attentive to doing it politely than I used to be though. I would never light up right at a bus stop with other people around these days. I will still smoke while I'm walking sometimes and sit to have a cigarette in a park, as long as I'm not sitting down next to someone who is there first.

I used to like going to the Netherlands back in the day because there was a real feeling of the tobacco culture going back centuries, with the bruin bars and people smoking enthusiastically on trains.

I smoke rolling tobacco, which I believe is really rare in North America. Quite a lot of people across Europe roll their own. I don't think you do that even if you're in the jail in the US.

Posted by
891 posts

As I understand it, in Germany, to get a drivers license one is required to go to driving school at their own expense. Is that true in other countries in Europe? What a great idea. Here, it seems most people get their training from video games.

In the UK you have to pay for your own driving lessons and then take both a practical and a theory test. An awful lot of us have stories about how we failed first time - or in some cases, many times. A friend of mine failed her driving test five times and just decided it wasn’t for her.

Costs of learning to drive and then insuring your car in the UK are prohibitive for many young people. I work at a university and I reckon only just over half my students (18-22 year olds) have passed their driving tests.

Driving lessons cost upwards of £25 an hour and apparently its recommended by the DVLA (the government licensing body) that you have 45 hours of lessons, but that’s way more than I had. I think I had 12 hour-long lessons the first time (I failed) and about ten or 12 lessons the next time plus a few hours with my mum in the car.

Posted by
10519 posts

Why would you want a top sheet if you have a duvet?

Ummmmm because the duvet can be WAY TOO HOT, and the top sheet is a much lighter alternative. But of course the husband wants the duvet. This way we can -- gasp -- both be comfortable in the same bed.

Posted by
2743 posts

Kim, not having a top sheet isn't civilized. Plain and simple

Guess I will have to accept being uncivilized then :-)

Posted by
8101 posts

I fell in love with London and enjoyed Guinness

Claudia enjoyed Guinness in 1972, and it’s still nice. But in Cork last year, I found that Murphy’s is the best Irish stout, with a smokier*, richer flavor.

*Note: certain smoke applied to food or drink ingredients is wonderful. Other smoke inflicted on people who are trying to breathe is not. As John Lennon sang, “Curse Sir Walter Raleigh, he was such a stupid git.”. I’m not certain how he felt about Rudolf Diesel.

Posted by
263 posts

This is true where I live in Europe and I suspect more true than not in much of Europe: Amazon is expensive. Order by ____ and receive your package by 10am the following day? Not on your life, figure a week at best.

Amazon is not popular everywhere, there are other online shopping platforms offering more choice, prices and next day delivery for most purchases (like Allegro in Poland). I only used Amazon a couple of times in my entire life (to order English books and even that was more than 10 years ago)

You have to be home to receive the package. Nothing left at the door (just doesnt work in an urban environment). If you arent home it goes off to some holding office across town. Then if it is large you have to carry a box on the metro. Good news, it deters shopping and saves money.

I'd say 95% of packages fit in 24/7 self service parcel lockers (InPost, DPD, DHL etc) which are everywhere, even in very small locations. Plus there are pick up points in local shops and petrol stations. You simply order to the nearest to your flat and collect at your convenience. I have 2 of those self service machines within 300 meters from my flat, about 10 more within walking distance. An abundance of pick up points as well. For bigger items like furniture, household appliances, etc there is timed delivery where you choose the time slot and even if something unexpected happen and you can't be at home, you can still change delivery times. No need to trek across towns and carry things on public transport. You or the courier company really need to mess up for your package to end up in a holding office across town (can happen but that's an exception rather than the rule).

Posted by
16796 posts

As you have said, Mr. E, not all of Europe is the same.

I have had Amazon deliveries in the UK, Germany and Austria. No problems and done within 2-3 days. In other countries, I wouldn't chance it unless that country has it's own Amazon webpage or can easily be delivered from a neighboring country.

Eggs are not consistent. In Lithuania and Latvia, eggs are found in the refrigerated cases. UHT milk pods, that don't have to be refrigerated, are.

Spending as much time in Europe as I do, I've come to dislike the top sheet/blankets I find in US hotels. Ramp up the A/C, wrap that duvet tight and I sleep like an old guy who has to get up a couple of times during the night.

Smiling in some European countries seems to be frowned up. (Pun possibly intended.) I find this more in former Soviet countries.

Posted by
263 posts

Eggs are not consistent. In Lithuania and Latvia, eggs are found in the refrigerated cases. UHT milk pods, that don't have to be refrigerated, are.

They may simply have space to refrigerate them. It varies even within one company let alone from country to country. I have one Carrefour supermarket where all eggs are refrigerated, and another one slightly further away where they are not.

Posted by
21551 posts

Which sort of proves that any phrase that begins with "In Europe, they ....." isnt going to hold water. This should be among the first "realizations" of travel to Europe.

Posted by
21551 posts

in Hungary (mabye more generally?)

  • They dont use staples.
  • Prescriptions dont come in small plastic bottles with all the patient, doctor, dosage information printed on a label. They come in blister packs in boxes with no patient specific label (you had better remember what the doctor said).
  • You dont get a copy of your prescription to keep, the pharmisist takes it from you (photograph it before you give it away cause if you could read it, it has the dosage instructions).
  • The most the doctors can prescribe is 3 months at a time. Then you return to the doctor for a prescription for the next 3 months,.
  • There is no, I will call-in your prescription and the pharmacies dont call the doctors for a new prescription.
  • There is no Amazon, order in the next 2 hours and deliver by 10am tomorrow. Figure a week at best.
  • There are no packages left at doors. If you aint home, you have to wait, maybe they try the next day, maybe they send it across town to a holding center where you have to go and pick it up.
Posted by
2743 posts

There are no packages left at doors.

Which shows that you cannot generalise. Where I live packages are not left at the door either. If I am not home they are left on the kitchen table :-)

Posted by
21551 posts

Which shows that you cannot generalise

Which is why I was careful not to. I suspect in Germany you can get free overningt shipping too. But our Amazon retailer is in Germany, so overnight is really not an option. It was darn convenient in the US, but at least i am spending less here.

Which brings to mind another local difference. Buying somethig large or heavy.

Public transportation is great until you want to get that new Television home. When I bought one a few months back I paid for delivery. But like most deliveries here, it didnt happen. Instead I got a message that I would have to pick it up at the postal center for my District. The postal center happened to be next door to the place I purchased the Television. 10.000 ft wasted. But it fit on the tram.

I have a list of large things I would like to purchase. The system makes it such that I save money by not.

Posted by
7289 posts

To bring the thread slightly more back on topic, this is from a UK
perspective, how do visitors feel about jaywalking? Do you do it? Do
you watch Brits do it in horror? I guess it's a bit more difficult
when the traffic is coming the "wrong" way.

I almost lost two american tourists in Stockholm that way once. An american couple asked me if I could help them directions, and since I was heading the same way I simply told them to follow me. So where talking about their trip so far when we suddenly had to cross a street on a crosswalk with lights. The lights for pedestrians where red, but there were no cars so I simply crossed the street. When I got to the other side I saw that the American couple had not crossed the street but were standing and waiting for the light to become green.

Back to a realization in Europe, although not necessarily unexpected:
There are a LOT fewer pickup trucks, and the ones there are smaller
than at home.

That's probably because they are in general pretty impractical vehicles and there are few people that actually need one. But US car companies have spent a lot of money on advertising to convince people that it's what they really need. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo

The semis on highways, though, seem even bigger in Europe

That's because they are, especially in Sweden and Finland.

There's a massive American car culture in Sweden. They go mad for huge
full size sedans from the 50's, 60's and 70's. There's a whole
subculture around ratty old American cars.

I would not call it massive, but it very much exists. And when they show up, they tend to be very visible. And if you want to be pedantic, there are two different subcultures. One where people take very good care of their cars and make sure they are as close to new as possible. And one where people only do enough maintenance to keep the car moving and making sure it's road legal.

As I understand it, in Germany, to get a drivers license one is
required to go to driving school at their own expense. Is that true in
other countries in Europe?

I can only speak about Sweden, and a driving school is not required in theory. Apart from a few mandatory lessons. But the chance of passing the tests without any lessons at a driving school is to be honest very low.

And regarding egg, there really is no standard. Where I live, some supermarkets keep their eggs refrigerated and some don't.

Posted by
2743 posts

I can only speak about Sweden, and a driving school is not required in
theory. Apart from a few mandatory lessons. But the chance of passing
the tests without any lessons at a driving school is to be honest very
low.

When I was 18 I took driving lessons in order to learn how to pass the driving test.

For the driving test we were required to drive a route in a town that was almost designed to make you fail. I only passed on my fourth attempt. And I am not a bad driver. But I only took driving classes after I had failed the test twice, and then finally started to understand that I had gone about it all wrong. I was not supposed to try to be good driver. I just had to concentrate on passing the test first. Once I had passed the test I learned to drive :-)

My parents being of a generation that never had to pass a driving test did of course not help...

Posted by
2743 posts

...how do visitors feel about jaywalking?

That jaywalking is even a thing boggles the mind really. Its the cars that are the intruders after all, not the pedestrians...

Posted by
65 posts

1) Stores in England that advertised being open from '8am to late'. When, dear storekeeper, is 'late'?
2) Every restaurant in England asking about food allergies.
3) The lack of reasonable accommodations for those who are mobility impaired. Even at Heathrow and on the tube.
4) The lack of handrails and other basic safety features. One inn in England had a high porch with a 10 foot drop to the ground and no railing. And they served alcohol.
5) The number of smokers in Spain.

Posted by
9415 posts

1972….first trip… Visited: Amsterdam, Brussels, Copenhagen, London, Paris, Munich, and Vienna.

Unisex toilets
The size of the ceramic mugs at the Hofbrau House in Munich
The cleanliness of the Metro systems in each city
All the bike riders
That sliced cheeses and meats were served for breakfast
The great train stations
Riding trains
Riding on a freighter
Rarity of elevators
Lots of steps
Great public gardens
The size of the NightWatch
The size of the Mona Lisa
Hearing Big Ben toll
The size of London’s Black Cabs
Dogs allowed in restaurants
Babies left unattended in prams outside stores

Posted by
11 posts

In eastern europe Public Health Care is free, but you're expected to pay everyone who interacts with you during your visit.
Kind of like how there's a tipping culture in the US

Posted by
21551 posts

In eastern europe Public Health Care is free, but you're expected to
pay everyone who interacts with you during your visit.

I havent noticed that to universally be the case in "Eastern Eruope". In one particular rural clinic in one particular country in Eastern Europe 15 years ago it was suggested that I tip the doctor. The doctor in a clinic so poor that that just a tongue depressor was a luxury item. Not sure what the situation is today, 15 years later.

Today, where I live, a different country in Eastern Europe, trying to tip a doctor would be a bit crass.

Posted by
470 posts

Unisex toilets--yes! had heard about them but never been in one before!
The size of the ceramic mugs at the Hofbrau House in Munich--I still have mine from 1983!
That sliced cheeses and meats were served for breakfast--That was a surprise when I came to breakfast at my host family's house in Germany--along with my first time to have Nutella!

Posted by
9415 posts

Pete, we are kindred spirits. Lugged my Hofbrau mug all over Europe. Brought it home to the US in 1972. Still here. Keep pennies in it.

Posted by
470 posts

Claudia---Ha ha I use mine for pens. Funny this year I have started getting regular emails from my German host brother after not hearing from him for many years. I think that mug is now the only memento I have remaining from that first trip to Europe.

Posted by
139 posts

What’s the real realization here in 260+ posts? Life is different and no one knows why?

Posted by
1757 posts

"Can we please tone it down, Not everyone (or even most) who owns a truck are idiots."

Agreed, but I reserve the right to judge anyone who has fake testicles dangling from the undercarriage.

I'm so sorry to hear about your brother and your experience. How awful!

Posted by
1444 posts

the biggest unexpected thing was the people in London and how helpful they were with my Father,

The priority seat system on public transport is followed really rigidly in London. It seems to be something that decent folk pride themselves on being proactive about, more than even other regions of the UK. I mentioned in another thread that tube stations that have some stairs can be made more accessible when you have a big bag with the help of strangers. It's pretty much guaranteed someone will help if you seem to need it. Same goes for parents with strollers on buses and the tube. It can be surprising given the reputation of Londoners.

Posted by
697 posts

"It's pretty much guaranteed someone will help if you seem to need"

It's definitely a London thing. When we used to travel with small children in a pram on the tube, there was always someone who'd offer to help us carry it up the steps, even during rush hour. Now in Paris, that only happened a few times, and each time they were British!

Posted by
21551 posts

Douglas. Don't forget, the vintage buildings in some countries in Europe have not been brought up to code so it is not uncommon for shop doors open into the shop 8 times out of 10; even those with high occupancies. Seen a lot of Americans yank om the handle then walk away.

Editied for MarkK

Posted by
5608 posts

It's definitely a London thing.

It's not confined to London. The UK in general is a polite nation. However, I'm currently in Istanbul and whilst on the tram an elderly man boarded and immediately a young man in his early twenties leapt off his seat and offered it to the old man. Politeness and courtesy can be found everywhere.

Posted by
3541 posts

Don't forget, shop doors open into the shop 8 times out of 10. Seen a lot of Americans yank om the handle then walk away.

Traditionally from late 19th century on doors of shops open into the shop; doors of restaurants, cafés and places with a lot of public circulation open to the street side. In these cases the entry doors are also planned as from inside pushable emergency exits for a lot of people. If purpose of a venue changed maybe you will find exceptions because they kept the doors as they were before.

Posted by
21551 posts

Then Europe was ahead of the US on that count, as it didnt become law here until the early 20th century.

Its about occupant load here. 50 or more occupants and the door must open in the direction of egress.

50 people can be something as small as a convenience store or a small apartment building. So its not about use.

I had to know all about this to pass my licensing exam.

Eastern Europe I also guess was behind the rest of Europe as most of the buildings, built post war even, still have the doors opening in with larger occupancy spaces.

Or maybe your experienes in Germany are somewhat different because so many of those old buildings in Germany are post war reconstructions.

Thanks for pointing out my error in overly generalizing. I fixed it.

Posted by
3541 posts

Was not my intention to point out errors; more a cultural and history comment of origin / reason. What I wanted to mention is that most European cities (larger) fires in history and learnings out of it - so the engineering and architecture schools from different countries learned and copied from each other before it was transformed into law. Therefore some standards and investions established cross-country; simply as best practice. And I don not think that Eastern Europe was so much behind because these learnings were done before Cold War.

I also want to mention that I had some "unexpected realizations" after the opening of the Wall in Germany. It was a cultural learning for both sides. But that would be an own separate topic.

Posted by
21551 posts

No offense taken. A very substantial part of Budapest was constructed before 1945 and the only parts that come close to being compliant to modern codes are major renovations and they are few. Pest was spared the worst of the War, is still pretty much the way it was originally constructed and thats a lot of the charm.

I never realized it until I sat and watched it in action, but Americans are wired to want to pull on a commercial door. So wired that it never occurs to them to push. One or two good tugs, the door doesnt open, they walk away. I have sat on a park bench and watched it happen at an ATM housed in a small vestibule.

Posted by
572 posts

With the keycard not inserted while I was out and about, it took me only one day to realize why my tablet wasn't charging. Duh

Posted by
21551 posts

Wishin, if you don't have an extra key card, an AMEX Platinum card also works.

Douglas. I only take exceptionbyo one concept.

The advantage of in swing. Doors is the door is better protected from
weather. The opening of the door and the door jams can help keep water
and wind penetration down. And the inside of the door is never exposed
to the elements,

A truly fair expectation, but not true in practice; especially with American doors and probably not true of European doors as well.

Oh, residential doors. So you can open it with out hitting your guest in the face and so you can open it from within the house.

I checked with the OP, he is okay with the topic.

Posted by
2947 posts

Mr E, thanks for that tip!

Our family that lives deep in the Alaskan bush have doors that you have to pull open. The reason is that bears have not figured out how to open those, they only know how to push them open.

Posted by
183 posts

Last year in Italy, really notice that the cafe staff, primarily in train stations, all wore an upscale "uniform" type shirt, sometimes hats, too. US workers would revolt if required. AND, they were all so polite and seemingly happy.

Posted by
2743 posts

These European tilt-and-swing windows have actually been around for a long time. The house that we bought in Wengen had those, and there were just starting on their second century. But they were only double glas, and not very air tight anymore. So we replaced them with new ones, that are wood on the inside, and aluminium on the outside, and from the outside look just like the ones they replaced.
So it is all a matter of picking the right ones.

And interesting thing I learned when studying architecture was that doors/windows opening inwards versus outwards really depends a lot on the region.
For example, in the Netherlands windows typically swing outwards, or are sliding, whereas in Belgium they open inwards. Apparently has something to do who is highest in the building site pecking order. In some countries that are the carpenters, in others it is the bricklayers. In countries where the carpenters rule windows and doors open outwards (like in Scandinavia) and in countries where the bricklayers rule they open inwards.