UKRAINE Lvov and Kyiv Who's been there?

I have been to Kyiv and Odesa. The plans were to spend orthodox Christmas this year in Lviv, but an emergency at the office cut my trip short and we had to return before we got to Lviv. Interestingly enough we went from Budapest to Kyiv, like you are planning. (our second home is in Budapest)

Did i like Kyiv? Absolutely. I will tell you why in a PM.

Logistically UIA is a very decent airline and you can fly them or you can fly WIzz. During my trip which included Kyiv and Odesa (really worth the time; especially if you are under 40), we used both of the airports and both were a bit disorganized but that isn't uncommon in that part of the world. Reminded me of the old Budapest airport.

In Kyiv we stayed at the Senator Hotel Maidan. It is a short block in one direction to Nezalezhnosti Square (the famous "Maidan") and Khreschatyk St (shopping, restaurants, great Stalinist architecture) and just a few minutes walk in the other direction to Sofiyivska Square and St. Sofia's Cathedral

We hired a guide and was pretty happy we did. Things are cheaper there so its pretty affordable. Let me know if you are interested.

Good chance we will attempt to get to Lviv again in May.

Oh, and if you are there on August 24th its their Independence Day. Great parade and celebrations when we were there.

And for a little background color watch on Netflix "Servant of the People" and "Winter on Fire"

I guess i will keep talking.

From Budapest you can now fly to Krakow. From Krakow there is a train to Lviv, think it takes about 6 hours. Lviv to Kyiv I flew as the train ride was just too long and the flights were so cheap.

In January this year our round trip flight to Budapest cost a few hundred more than an Open Jaw ticket arriving in Budapest (same flights) and departing from Kyiv back to the US (one in our group had to return to school so was leaving us from Kyiv while we returned to Budapest).

Thanks for the tips, much appreciated. I will be taking the overnight train from Budapest to Lvov. I am traveling with my dog and best (human) friend so trains are far easier.

Whats really driving this is I need a cool place to kill some time outside of the schengen before I return to Paris and get my flight home. Ukraine is one of the few countries I haven't been to so it was elected. I will check out those Netflix shows.

So I am standing in Maidan. I rarely show up in photos but i gave the camera to my wife and I asked her to take my photo. I am standing there waiting, and this gentleman in his early 60's approaches. He is impeccably dressed in some pretty dated clothing but he wore it proudly complete with a casual sports coat and baseball cap. He began fussing at me in Ukrainian (or maybe Russian for all i know). He made me straighten my belt, stand up straight, fix my hat and then permitted the photo. I just reached out and grabbed him and put my arm around him and my wife got us both. My absolute favorite vacation photo of all time. We ran into a lot more of that sort of relaxed friendliness. Sort of surprising because folks in the old Warsaw Pact countries tend to be a bit conservative in approaching strangers. Didn't see near as much of that in Ukraine.

Lviv is the town the Soviet Union forgot...beautiful Habsburg era opera house and restored buildings, great hotel on the square, delicious food, and cafe culture ( dog friendly). Coming from Budapest, you can see how the Austro-Hungarian Empire treated their provinces. There is a Skansen and a wonderful cemetery with huge sculptures (I'm thinking places to walk with your dog.). Ukrainian pride is evident, you won't hear much Russian.

The Carpathian Mountains aren't far, if you think you and your dog might like some time in more natural surroundings after Budapest. There is a company I have used that could set up a driver and short itinerary for you, similar to one I did.

Kyiv is also worth a few days. Spectacular restored monasteries and cathedrals. Great old Metro reminiscent of Moscow. Bessarabsky Market. Chernobyl Museum. I'm not sure about the trains between Lviv and Kyiw, but you're welcome to PM id I can help in any way.

Google the Lithuanian–Polish–Ukrainian Brigade. They are getting along fairly well these days...

We have been to Kiev on a tour that included Kiev, Russia and the Baltic Countries where a river cruise was included. We loved the Ukrainian people. We had a wonderful evening and dinner with a Ukrainian woman and her daughter. She told us all about how the Soviet government covered up the Chernobyl disaster, exposing thousands of Ukrainians to radiation to keep the disaster a secret. It incensed the population against the government. Also, we heard stories of how the KGB intimidated people and would come in the middle of the night and haul people off to God knows where. From others, we heard about how Stalin starved 10 million Ukrainians during the 30s.
Clearly, the city showed the disastrous results of the failed Soviet system. We saw whole neighborhoods of decrepit buildings. Still, the people had a vibrance that was a bit encouraging.

On another trip, a Black Sea cruise, we visited Odessa and Sevastopol (in Crimea), prior to the Russian annexation. Odessa seemed to have more ethnic Russians there as well as Crimea.

Odessa still had some attractive neighborhoods and we enjoyed our visit there. The tour company, Odessa Walks, was great.

A good source of information for countries formerly behind the Iron Curtain is In Your Pocket. They have a website, they have city PDF's that you can download, and you can often get their guides in print form in the cities themselves. Here's their Ukraine page: https://www.inyourpocket.com/ukraine

Odessa has some very attractive sights and an incredible night life. Its one of those places you might consider moving up on your list as its on Putin's radar. He wants it as part of his new Russian empire. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/19/world/europe/what-is-putins-new-russia.html Actually he wants the majority of the Black Sea coast and hasn't been shy about stating it. It has a very tragic recent history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odessa_clashes

Thanks to all of you for all the great information. It certainly sounds like a great place to see. I have been reading some blogs too and have pretty much decided to change my itinerary after Budapest to include Ukraine.

Please keep the comments coming hope more will post.

PS Kind of Surprised RS hasnt done a show on Ukraine yet...

I've started downloading the In Your Pocket guides for my upcoming trip. The Kiev guide is dated Mar-May 2014. I'm surprised that an online guide is four years old.

A good friend of mine visited Lviv in 2006, found it great, very interesting, worthy of revisiting when such an opportunity pops up again. He's pushing 50 now, insists on calling the place Lemberg (in private conversation). Both totalitarian regimes, the commies and Nazis, would go after him....he's monarchist at heart.

Hey Fred, long time!

Your friend might like Hungary then, as the PM also favors a monarchy. He just hasn't figured out how to pull it off just yet.

So what would the consensus be about splitting time between Lviv and Kyiv? 50/50 or which place in your estimation deserves more time? Keep in mind I may rent a car for a day or so in either place to get me out of the city.

I will have from the 17th (arrival from Budapest) to about the 27th or 28th before I have to leave for Paris on the train.

Ideas...thoughts?

I visited Kiev so long ago that I have no specific memories of it, and I've never been to L'viv, but I'm planning a trip there for this spring. I've got lists of things of interest to me in each of those cities. Every church, every museum, etc., that I might want to see has its own entry. Both lists are very long--as in there's no hope I'll see everything unless I spend more than a month in Ukraine. The Kiev list is just about exactly twice the length of the L'viv list. Museums are usually a lot more time-consuming than churches, and I see that the ratio of Kiev museums to L'viv museums is also about 2:1. Plus Kiev is a much larger city, so I expect to spend more time just getting from place to place there. I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but it's clear I'll be in Kiev for at least a week.

Edited to add: I have no fixed maximum time limit for Ukraine, thus the 7+ days in Kiev.

I'm pretty thankful that we hired a guide. Cheap and efficient and a great talker so a lot of insight into how things are..... Great place. We had four full days and it should have been a week. Hence a return trip.

@ James...Nice story above, it also helps bridge the language gap, if only a little. True, that Budapest is an architectural wonder, Austrian Habsburg, Turkish, Hungarian, etc.

Just got back from Lviv. Excellent town, worth the time to visit.

A friend just got back last week from a trip to Lviv and surrounding villages area searching out his ancestry. His posts on Facebook were incredible! Parts of that city look like Paris. The market looked amazing and he had nothing but good things to say about the people, food, history, great architecture, and cheap prices. I personally have added it to my list!

Lviv, Odesa and Kyiv; all incredible destinations and now Lviv and Kyiv are well connected by discount airlines to a number of cities. We flew from Houston into Lviv on Turkish Air, on to Kyiv on Ukraine Air and on to Budapest on Wizz; then back to Houston on Turkish Air. Total air fare was under $1000. The previous trip was Budapest to Kyiv to Odesa to Kyiv to Budapest on Ukraine Air for about $350.

I tended to swap the low costs for better accommodations and service. Still, it wasbless expensive than Western Europe.

I am wondering why there is a forum on Russia here and none for Ukraine. Isn't Ukraine more a part of Europe than Russia is?

Barbara, not sure how the Russians forgot Lviv? The bombers didnt do a whole lot of damage, but Lviv was very much a place ravaged by the Russians with something in the neighborhood of 500,000 political prisoners from the region. The Russians didnt miss much of anything. http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/06/28/lviv-museum-of-totalitarian-regimes-communism-nazism/

marcia: Very few maps even spell Kyiv correctly; why am i not surprised its not recognized by RS.

The bad news is that it is a terribly overlooked beautiful place. The good news is that it is a terribly overlooked beautiful place. People tend to be a bit afraid to go because of the Russian invasion of the eastern border and Crimea; but the US State Department says, stay away from those two zones and its safer to visit overall than Russia. With a county significantly larger than Texas (largest country wholly in Europe), its not hard to avoid the troubled spots.

Marcia: The forum divisions here are based on Rick's books and tours. For instance, the Iceland forum has only existed for a short time; it was started when Rick announced plans to publish his Iceland book.

Rick covers St. Petersburg in two of his books (although he does not cover other Russian destinations), but he does not have a tour or book for Ukraine at all. So, there's a Russia forum but not a Ukraine forum. It's a simple as that. This also explains why he has a section for Bulgaria (he has a tour going there) but not Romania (no RS tour and no RS book = no forum here).