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Two day overstay in Schengen region

My husband and I are planning a six month trip to Europe and the British Isles. As I understand it England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are not included in the Schengen zone. So I haven't included them in my count of days in the Schengen zone. Because of cruise ship schedules I have two days too many in the Schengen. Can I go to the Guardia (police station) to request a two day extension? And if so have you known that to be successful.

Posted by
23290 posts

Not sure that is an option. Or even if they have the authority to do that. It is not the police you deal with but the exit immigration officer that you have to deal with. From postings here and personal experience, the immigration officers take a very dim view of overstay even by one day. There is a posting here of a one day overstay (three months is not the same as a 90 days) that resulted in a 500 euro fine. She was detained long enough to miss her flight home and had to buy new ticket home.) Another overstayed for a couple of weeks and was ban from returning for a couple of years. Are you sure you are counting accurately? It is a look back count. If you look at the past 180 days have you been in the zone for more than 90 days. Tomorrow you do the same thing. And you count the arrival and departure days as days in the zone. I would be checking with a consultant or embassy to see if they have a solution. This is not to be taken lightly.

Posted by
6419 posts

My husband and I are planning a six month trip to Europe and the
British Isles. As I understand it England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales,
and Northern Ireland are not included in the Schengen zone.

Correct.

Because of cruise ship schedules I have two days too many in the
Schengen.

Your planned trip will lead you to overstaying? In that case replan.

Can I go to the Guardia (police station) to request a two day
extension?

You might as well ask them to change the weather. Getting some kind of visa takes a bit of paperwork and is not issued for tourism purposes. Make a new plan or you are looking at a likely fine + a ban on reentry for a few years.

Posted by
1674 posts

I get the unwritten impression you have already made flight schedules while in Europe, otherwise stay in the UK a few more days. Problem solved.

Posted by
27163 posts

I don't think there's a way to fix this on the ground by talking to someone; there's a fairly laborious process required to obtaina long-stay visa in advance. I ran into this problem in 2015 and was saved by meeting an Australian couple in Italy who explained the facts of life to me. I was already planning to spend some time in non-Schengen countries in the Balkans; forewarned, I made sure I crossed the border from Slovenia to Croatia before Day 90. As it happened, I became quite ill on about Day 84 and couldn't travel for several days, so it was a good thing I was so close to the edge of the Schengen Zone when my time was about to run out.

You will need to spend some additional time outside Schengen. Do you have a gap between cruises that offers you that opportunity? Keep in mind that both arrival and departure days count when tallying Schengen time; it's based on calendar days rather than elapsed hours. For example, to cut two Schengen days from your itinerary, you would have to do something like this:

Monday: Travel from Schengen country to non-Schengen country, arriving before midnight. Remain there for 3 nights.
Thursday (or later): Travel from non-Schengen country back into Schengen area.

But do keep in mind my warning about the potential for an untimely illness to throw a monkey wrench into your plans to get out of the Schengen area on time. I now plan to be out of the Schengen area in fewer than 90 days.

You can use skyscanner.com to explore options for low-cost flights within Europe. In addition to UK and Ireland, possible non-Schengen destinations include Croatia (but due to become part of Schengen Zone soon, so be careful!), Romania, Bulgaria, Montenegro, Serbia, Bosnia-Hercegovina, Albania, Turkey and Morocco. Also theoretically possible but probably not a good idea at the moment because of either limited transportation options or political difficulties are Ukraine, Russia, Kosovo and North Macedonia.

You must go somewhere that involves passing through border controls so your exit is on record. Therefore, places like Andorra and San Marino will not work.

Posted by
1530 posts

Janetjean,
Take the counsel of posters SERIOUSLY as there are significant fines, bans and serious hassle to be encountered should you ignore the law. Strongly recommend you plan with a minimum three day leeway to cope with any illness or travel issues. Is this your first time in Europe? Enjoy a wonderful journey!

Posted by
6419 posts

But do keep in mind my warning about the potential for an untimely
illness to throw a monkey wrench into your plans to get out of the
Schengen area on time.

Not just illness, while trips usually go as planned all kinds of things can go wrong. Strikes, bad weather, traffic accidents etc. So it might be a good idea to plan to leave Schengen on day 89 or earlier.

@janetjean1951: If you post your itinerary we might be able to help you avoid trouble.

Posted by
27163 posts

In addition to the potential fines and bans mentioned earlier, there's a significant possibility that very unhappy Immigration officials who spot the overstay as you try to head home at the end of your trip will lead you to a private office for a serious grilling. That has been known to cause travelers to miss their flights home. It can be very costly to have to buy a last-minute replacement one-way ticket back to the US--on top of whatever fine might be levied.

The Schengen situation causes me grief every year, but it's a fact of life. I'm just thankful I learned the details about it before it was too late.

Posted by
739 posts

The officers involved in this depending where you are at tend to be sticklers.
I was in France/Monaco/Italy in 17, and on my landing into Germany in 18 the officer was NOT pleased with the way my passport was stamped when i left France for home. He asked me all sorts of stuff including what day of the week i left on (and checked it on a calendar). then when he figured out my father had traveled with me in 17 he took his passport and compared the two passports. My dad talked to him a bit in German (my dad was born and raised in Germany) and the official said that the stamp was messed up on my exit from France and he was concerned anout how long i had been in zone. So eventually he was satisfied and he wrote something next to it and initialed it as well as added in the new stamp. All total we spent over 15 minutes just getting the stamp issue “fixed” and this was just from a bit of a hard to read stamp.
And i was only in the Zone for about 2 weeks!

I dont want to think how unhappy they would be if you actually over stayed.
And as noted what happens if you get delayed a day or two?
Strikes and airplane problems do happen.

Posted by
5400 posts

Imagine a refugee or asylum seeker or an immigrant from a developing country asking this question. Such a privilege to even be able to ask this question.

Posted by
7569 posts

Others have alluded to, or directly said some of the below, but bears repeating:

Re-do your count. Make sure you catch all days, showing up a few minutes before midnight? well, that is one day there. Moving from the Schengen Zone to the UK? or vice-versa, that is a day in each.

Not to give you "hope", but cruises present a special problem. Depending how immigration is handled, Schengen days may be all of the time on the cruise, none of the days, or rarely some in/some out. Problem is, not even the cruise line can give you good information, the people that know are not the ones answering the phone, and the typical passenger never has a concern, so they simply do not deal with the question.

Do not attempt to push it to exactly 90 days, as someone said, if there is a delay (due to illness, covid measures, flight issues) it is on you, not them.

Attempt to plan more time in the UK, but remember, unless you tack on days to an existing leg, you are looking at 4-5 days to get 2 or 3 due to partial days counting as a whole day.

Whatever plan you come up with, watch the stamps in passports...they can sometimes be illegible, keep some record of flights in and out, if crossing by land, keep hotel receipts, I would even have an itinerary printed out clearly showing days and nights, even a "Day" count as you go. If you push it, you likely will be questioned, best not to appear confused or ignorant of the rules, and answer questions simply and quickly.

Posted by
17971 posts

joe32f thanks for posting a good comprehensive response. And that Schengen calculator is pretty swift. Wish it were downloadable so i wouldn't have to refill the blanks each time. But its a good check to a Excel spreadsheet i made to keep track of the time there.

Posted by
3 posts

Thank you all for the extremely helpful responses. I have revised our itinerary to come with the Schengen rules. After all the advice you all have given I would NOT even think of trying to slide in a couple of extra days. Thanks again.

Posted by
118 posts

JanetJean,

Here's my two cents from a post I posted 367 days ago on a different thread: I spent almost four months traveling around western Europe in 2015/2016 traveling mainly by train (occasional bus/fight). I had purchased a one way tix to London but no fight home. When I finally decided to leave, from Munich after about 115 days, through Reykjavik, I was detained, questioned and searched in Reykavik, even though I never left the airport and had only about a 55m layover. I was under the incorrect impression that one could spend 90 days (!) in ANY Schengen Area country as opposed to the entire Area.

When I left Munich earlier in the day, there was no mention whatsoever about my stay or my passport. My memory is that I de-boarded at Reykjavik and my flight back to the States was just a gate or two away. I had maybe a five minute bathroom break, if any, before I got in line for the flight stateside. I stood in line carrying my only piece of luggage: a standard gym bag that hung down to my waist from a shoulder strap. It had a zippered compartment on the top, and one smaller zippered compartment on each end.
When I got to the front of the line, I gave my passport and ticket to a male agent in a uniform. I assumed he worked for the airline. At any rate, he saw from my passport that I had landed in London in early March and asked me standard questions of where I'd been, etc. I explained to him my travel through England, Belgium, France, Italy, Austria, Chech., Germany, etc. and he said I had overstayed the 90 day limit. I said I thought it was 90 days per country (yes, I was ignorant of the law. I had done some research before I left the States, saw the 90 day limit, and either interpreted it incorrectly or had forgotten about it). He asked me to step out of line and two other uniformed men (I assumed customs?) arrived and took me to a small room just off to the side.
They had me take off my sport jacket and shoes and "wanded" me thoroughly. They spoke English. They put my gym bag on a small table and asked me open it, which I did. I unzipped all 3 compartments and assisted them in taking everything out of the bag. They asked me the same questions the other agent had, and I gave them the exact same responses. I was 100% cooperative and 100% honest. I was more embarrassed than anything. I even took out the journal and showed them the dates upon which I had moved from city to city (I note the date and city I am in whenever I make an entry). They were polite, professional and courteous at all times and I once again plead ignorance. The entire incident lasted 20 minutes. I was never scolded, threatened or fined, and I never once felt like I was going to get locked up in "a Turkish [Icelandic] prison. I was able to make the connecting flight.
I have always assumed that they checked some master list and found that I was not on any type of "do not fly list" or something like that. I also assume that because I had a ticket back to the States in my hand that they did not want to be bothered with me.

When I posted this response a year, I received all sorts of responses from people who said how lucky I was, how I could have been fined, expelled, put on "do not enter" lists. I guess I got lucky. But I've been back to Europe 3X since and have never been detained

Posted by
11191 posts

When I left Munich earlier in the day, there was no mention whatsoever about my stay or my passport.

That is because Munich to Iceland is an intra- Schengen flight.

Your flight from Iceland to the US had you crossing the Schengen border, so that is where/when the passport inspection would happen.

Posted by
209 posts

I have always assumed that they checked some master list and found that I was not on any type of "do not fly list" or something like that. I also assume that because I had a ticket back to the States in my hand that they did not want to be bothered with me.

No, it's not that. They were more lenient back in 2015. Nowadays they just slap a fine and entry ban on those who cannot count to 90. Schengen rules have been in force for decades, there is no excuse for ignorance. Mercy is only shown for those who overstayed due to cancelled flights, hospital stays, testing positive to coronavirus and having to isolate or quarantine through contact, etc. Proof required for all of these circumstances.

Posted by
32212 posts

As the others have said, you'll need to adjust your Itinerary to stay within the 90-day limit (the count includes the arrival and departure days). If you'd rather not spend more time in the U.K., you could spend a few days in a non-Schengen country. At the present time, I believe Croatia is one option.

Given the possible consequences of overstaying, this is not something to take a chance on.

Posted by
4529 posts

That could be years and makes no sense

This is too harsh. It's not so long ago that Americans got at least 30 days in each European country, and often 3 months (UK is still 6 I believe). Remember that New Zealanders currently get 90 days in each major Western European country and are except from Schengen rules in them because their government negotiated a better deal for them.

Posted by
6419 posts

There is a bit of a loop hole though. Denmark allows US and Canadian citizens to stay 90 days in Denmark, regardless of time spent in non-Nordic Schengen countries.

Posted by
209 posts

I believe Poland also has a similar agreement from before Schengen that allows US citizens to stay 90 days on top of the 90 Schengen visa-free days but there is a condition - you have to leave the Schengen Zone before the initial 90 days period is up to get a Schengen exit stamp and then enter Poland through external Schengen border to get an entry stamp from Poland. Not sure if you have to leave Schengen through Poland at the end, probably yes. You cannot simply add 90+90 and stay 180 consecutive days inside the Schengen Zone because then there is no record that you are taking advantage of this rule. And if there is no record, immigration will treat you as an overstayer. And if you overstay 90 days that's a guaranteed 5 year entry ban plus a hefty fine.

You really need to do your research if you want to take advantage of these additional allowances offered by some Schengen countries. There may be small print that could easily land you in trouble. Make sure you know how they work and whether they are still in force in the first place, otherwise stick to the 90/180 day rule.

Posted by
27163 posts

I'm not convinced the Poland loophole really exists at this point. I did try to find confirmation online a few years ago, but I was unsuccessful beyond seeing a many-decades-old treaty or equivalent. I'd expect something a lot more up to date if Poland is still allowing extra time beyond the 90-day Schengen limit. However, I haven't tried contacting a Polish consulate.

The Danish loophole is real. There's online documentation that's current. As I understand it, citizens of some countries (including US and New Zealand) can stay on in Denmark after their 90 Schengen days. When they are ready to leave, they must exit by way of a non-Schengen country. I'm assuming (but do not know for sure) that even changing planes in a Schengen country would be a problem. I'd play to fly home via the UK, Ireland or Turkey.

Posted by
8398 posts

24 hours ago, the original poster said that she had reformatted her trip and thanked everyone for their help. I don't think it is necessary to continue on with this discussion telling her to do what she has already said she has done.

Posted by
6419 posts

I'm assuming (but do not know for sure) that even changing planes in a
Schengen country would be a problem. I'd play to fly home via the UK,
Ireland or Turkey.

Correct, Denmark needs to be your last stop in the Schengen area. Changing planes in e.g. Frankfurt will get you in trouble. Luckily there are direct flights from Denmark to several North American cities.

24 hours ago, the original poster said that she had reformatted her
trip and thanked everyone for their help. I don't think it is
necessary to continue on with this discussion telling her to do what
she has already said she has done.

But there might be others that will find this thread helpful.

Posted by
23290 posts

Carol, there are other people other than the OP who reads this site. It could be useful information for them.

...not so long ago that Americans got at least 30 days in each European country,.... Not so long ago would have to be close to 40 years ago since the Schengen zone agreement has been in effect since 1985. Since our first trip was in 72, I remember well the border crossings especially on trains -- just like in the movies -- came on the train -- "Papers, please." Traveling is so much smoother these days.

Posted by
4529 posts

Schengen zone agreement has been in effect since 1985.

Not really, it was first put into practice in about 1995, or toward 2000. Maybe someone will chime in with the first time they received a Schengen stamp. Mine was 2001 and I thought at the time the Schengen stamp had been around for about 2 years. I recall getting multiple stamps at crossings in 1988, I needed a visa for France, and my Belgium entry stamp I believe allowed 30 days stay.

Editing to add: My June 2001 stamp was an early one, Iceland had just entered the Schengen Zone 3 months prior.

"The enlargement of the Schengen Area continued its prosperous journey as in January 2000 Greece and March 2001 Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Iceland, Norway,..."

Posted by
27163 posts

Thanks, A.W. That's the first real-world report I've seen.