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Two and a half week trip to Scenic Europe - Need advice in planning

Hi.
Planning a family-of-four trip to Europe for about 16-18 days starting mid June. Looking primarily for places that are scenic and fun for family (mountains, lakes, play around in snow, castles & grand churches, beautiful villages and landscapes, etc.) and also well known places of historical value and tourist sites (Eiffel Tower, Colosseum, Leaning Tower of Pisa, canals of Venice, etc) . Not much into museums or art, unless it's a Leonardo da Vinci or Michaelangelo mural/ painting (not modern art). Hiking is out too as my wife cannot walk long distances. Would like it to be a bit relaxed but don't want to stay at a place longer then necessary. We rarely travel outside the country and therefore want to make the best of it. We are looking for cheap options, but don't mind an occasional splurge on something that's worth spending on. As far as travel is concerned, would certainly prefer driving using a rented car [so that we can stop by wherever we see a beautiful spot to take photos] wherever it is affordable and recommended over train or bus travel. We are normally not light packers and it would be quite an effort to do that if necessary, especially if we have to carry woolens.

We had the following countries in mind - Switzerland/ Austria (for scenic beauty) and France, Italy (for historical value), but not UK. We had considered Greece (instead of France) but now we don't think it would be prudent. One option is fly into Paris [stay 3-4 days] then travel to Switzerland/Austria [stay 7-8 days] and Italy [stay 6 days]. Finally fly out of Rome. From what I've gathered so far, Switzerland is something that we would like more than Austria, but is expensive. Therefore the first decision to be taken is which of these two countries? If Switzerland, looking at Zurich (after flying in), Lucerne,/Interlaken/Grindelwald as some of the places to stay (not in all of course). I also understand that taking the Swiss Rail Pass for 6 or 8 days would be a better option to travel around Switzerland than renting a car. If we choose Austria, I understand that it would be better to stay near central or eastern part of the country (near Innsbruk) than closer to Vienna. We are also open to staying a few days in Austria and also a few in Switzerland if that is recommended.

The next big decision is France or Italy or both? We don't see a visit to any city other than Paris in France, but in Italy, we could think of Venice, Florence/ Pisa and Rome (with a short trip to the Vatican and back). A visit to a good beach in Italy is also desirable, but not essential. Amalfi Coast or Cinque Terre are on the list as of now, but I am not sure if travelling to Amalfi Coast from Rome (through Naples) would be worth it. On the other hand, if Cinque Terre is worth a visit, we can make it from Florence.

That brings me to the last big question. Should we rent a car for travel within Italy or do you recommend taking buses and trains?

Any advice in planning our trip would help. Whether it is choosing the places to visit or stay, travel and accommodation tips, passes to buy in advance, etc.

Thanks in advance.

Posted by
28159 posts

I fear a family of 4 not-light packers will find the trunk capacity of the typical European rental car a challenge. Between Venice, Florence and Rome a train will be a great deal faster than a car, and there will be no parking concerns. I don't think many people (possibly none) will recommend driving to the Cinque Terre or the Amalfi Coast, either.

Zurich is a perfectly attractive city, but people generally go to Switzerland for the scenery. You'll pay a pretty penny for any mainstream lodging in Switzerland. Take a look on booking.com for some random June dates and ask yourself whether you're willing to pay those prices for Zurich, as opposed to places in the Alps.

There's high demand for lodging in two areas of Italy you didn't mention, but which might be considered as alternatives to Switzerland: the Dolomites and the lakes. You didn't say anything about budget concerns, so costs may not be an issue for you. I had to pay more than I wanted to on Lake Como and in Bolzano (in a valley near the Dolomites) in early September. I'm sure mountain villages in the Dolomites as well as in Switzerland are also challenging. It would be smart to nail down reservations in places like that as soon as you can.

I'd try to condense the area you're trying to cover so you don't spend so much time in cars/trains/buses. I sort of feel like you'd do better to limit yourself to two of the three major areas you've mentioned--Paris, Italy and Austria/Switzerland. Keep in mind that with four travelers, there's likely to be at least one person who's basically non-functional on your arrival day, and your last day will be about getting packed and to the airport for the trip home. That means an "18-day" trip really gives you 16 fully usable days. The Venice-Florence-Rome trio could chew up close to 10 of those--or more, of course; Rome, especially, has so many things to see.

Posted by
11898 posts

Planning a family-of-four trip to Europe

Presumably 2 of the 4 are the children? Ages would be helpful to know to have some idea of how mobile (or encumbered) you might be.

How fast the group can move will affect just how many places you could reasonably fit in

Posted by
2737 posts

Keep in mind if you decide to rent a car that it is EXTREMELY expensive to pick up a rental in one country and drop off in another. There are also a variety of potential additional costs such as tolls and some cities have zones that you can't drive in without getting a hefty fine (and in some you simply will not want to drive, traffic is terrifying). You'll also likely need to get an IDP (a translation of your driver license) - not expensive but something you should plan. For those reasons, many in this forum would recommend trains or planes for your situation.

Fly open jaw (in to your city, home from your last) to save backtracking given your short time. Every time you change locations you lose about half a day to travel, especially if you're flying (getting to airport, through security, checking bags, etc.). It is often quite helpful to write out your plans showing the number of nights and indicating travel days so you can visualize how much time you'd actually have to see things. Remember you lose a day going to Europe and your last day is travel home. In your tentative plan above (Paris 3, Switzerland 7, Italy 6) it could look something like this (BTW I am not suggesting this is a good itinerary, just an example of how to plot it out):

Day 1 fly to Paris (typically overnight flight)
Day 2 arrive Paris (stay in Paris)
Day 3 Paris
Day 4 Paris a.m., fly to Zurich (stay in Zurich)
Day 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 Switzerland (whatever you decide to see given time of year)
Day 10 Fly to Venice a.m., Venice p.m. (stay in Venice)
Day 11 Venice
Day 12 Venice a.m. train to Florence, Florence p.m. (stay in Florence)
Day 13 Florence
Day 14 Florence a.m. train to Rome, Rome p.m. (stay in Rome)
Day 15 Rome
Day 16 flight home to USA (usually in the morning)

Best of luck.

Posted by
1360 posts

mikep,
Just fyi, Vatican City is within the Roma perimeter, so just takes bus or taxi there from your hotel. Visiting there will probably take up the greater part of a day (the huge magnificent church and the museum for sure, plus possible crowds to negotiate through). With 3 days in Rome, you have the Vatican one day, and two days for (pick among them), the Colisseum, the Forum, the catacombs, the Appian Way, Capitoline Museum (giant statuary), various locations with Michelanglo sculptures, several outstanding churches (e.g. St.Peter in Chains, St. John Lateran, Santa Maria Maggiore), plus the neighborhoods for the ambience and the FOOD. There are lots more places, but you would want to do some research to see which places appeal to you. By the way, I believe you need to preorder tickets to the Vatican Museum.
And having a car in Rome is a real pain, not just with the crazy driving, but the parking also. The suggestion for using trains in Italy is a good one. And I concur with acraven about fitting 4 people and 4 not-small pieces of luggage plus (maybe) 4 backpack size items in a family sized sedan is not going to be comfortable. (I speak from experience, and we all had small carry-on sized bags.)

As acraven said, the Cinque Terra and Amalfi Coast just won't fit into your time frame, unless you drop someplace else.

Florence, with a side trip to Pisa one of your days there, should have two full days. One for Pisa, and one for the architectural beauties of Florence, plus the Ponte Vecchio. Since you aren't interested much in art, I haven't allowed time for that, but the Uffizi Gallery is a treasure box of Renaissance art, and the Accademia, of course, has Michaelangelo's David. So, if they are of interest to you, you may need to add another day there. (This implies a relatively fast pace of activity).

I haven't touched on your Switzerland, Austria or Paris days. (For me, I would shorten my time in Switzerland due to costs and IMO similarity of places, and add a day or two to Paris. But that is just me.) Check out travel options (train schedules, etc.) to see if your plans will work out and plan your itinerary with that in mind. And do try to pack as lightly as possible. You will get tired of schlepping bags over cobblestone walks and up stairs. Even if you drive from place to place, your walk from where the car is parked may be a bit of a trek. Medieval towns and cities do not usually have parking lots attached to hotels as in the US, unless you are in a modern chain hotel in a modern part of town, probably on the outskirts. And many cities and towns in Italy have ZTLs, zones where you cannot drive without getting a very expensive ticket.

I am curious as to why only Paris is on your list for France. Time constraints? Paris has tons of varied things rto see and do within all your options.

My last tip. Count nights, not days. You will find it more practical. As others have said before, 2 nights equals one full day. Give it a try. You will find it more useful. It is also important to calculate travel time between cities. Not just train or drive time, but checking out of lodgings, getting to the airport/train station/highway, and getting to your lodgings in the new location, checking in, dropping bags, etc. It all adds up. Lots to think about!

Best of luck! Enjoy yourselves!)

Posted by
4 posts

Thank you @acraven, @joe32F and @CL.

We are a family of four, two in late 40s and 50s and two in early 20s. Regarding trunk capacity, I see from rental car sites that some SUV and "Estate" type cars are available that can take 3 large and 3 small bags. I assume they mean the standard bag sizes - large being about 32 x 18 x 12 inch and small being 24 x 14 x 9 inch. If so, we can manage within these. I see that Paris and Switzerland in June would need warm clothes at least in the evenings - and with three ladies in the family, we would need big bags. But it's better to confirm exact trunk size from the car company before booking - I get that.

Thanks for your tips on car rentals, @CL. By renting a car, we were looking for convenience (stop where you want to for photo-ops or visit a tourist spot by taking a short detour that cannot be done in a train journey) and for a cheaper option (can stay away from expensive city hotels, might be cheaper than four bus/train tickets?? and avoid hassle of renting on a daily basis for local visits). We do not intend to drop off in another country, so that's out, but I understand the parking problem within a city. Overall - would it be really cheaper or similar compared to taking public transport between cities and for local visits and renting accommodation close to such public transport. The answer to this question would probably be the clincher. Not thinking of renting a car in Paris (if we go there), but considering it for Italy and Switzerland/ Austria. Based on your inputs, I see that renting a car may not be a good idea, but don't want to drop it just yet. I think that airplanes would be a lot more expensive than trains and buses and for the distances that we are looking at, will not save much on time too. Based on @acraven's view, will leave out Cinque Terre and the Amalfi Coast.

Staying in Zurich is not a requirement. Will look to stay in the Alps if that's a lot cheaper. Perhaps just a day or two in Zurich after we arrive. By the way, cost IS an issue. We are looking for cheap and good options. Among Swiss Alps, Austrian Alps and Italian Alps, is there a huge difference in terms of scenery? As this is once in a lifetime kind of trip, we would like it to be memorable too, without spending all our savings on it. Thanks for pointing out Dolomites. Will research this area and see if we can stick to Italian Alps instead of Switzerland/Austria. However, any advice in making this choice is welcome, as it is going to be a big decision. From our childhood, Switzerland has been known to be the epitome of scenic beauty and leaving it out would be a major decision!

Again, thank you @CL for tips on making the itinerary. Will work out day-time wise plan once we home onto something a little more concrete. As of now, these are just ideas.

Posted by
4 posts

Thank you @Judy.

One decision made - not renting a car :-) Your tips on luggage are most helpful. Did not consider cobblestone walks and hauling the luggage upstairs!! Thank you so much for pointing out. Yes, Paris was the only place chosen in France due to time constraints. Between most of France and most of Italy, we chose Italy and stuck to just one city in France. Traveling all the way and not visiting Paris did not sound like a good idea (considering that I don't see another vacation to Europe with family in the near or far future). We can extend the trip by a day or two, if we have to. Had thought that 18 days (ok 18 nights and 17 days) would be adequate and would be within budget. A little more stretch in budget might be better than missing out on something worth visiting.

As advised by you ad @CL, will try to plan the trip to the hour and see where it takes us. Thank you again.

Posted by
28159 posts

I didn't mean lodging in the Swiss mountains would be less expensive than lodging in Zurich--that's not something I've ever researched. It's just that there's a good reason to spend extra to stay in the Alps, whereas most cities in Europe are a lot less expensive than Zurich, and many of them are as interesting, if not more so. For those who are scenery buffs and making a trip to central Europe, time in the Alps or Dolomites is basically indispensable if the budget will stretch that far. No one, to my knowledge, ever said "Oh, you're going to Venice/Milan/Munich--you just have to extend your trip to include Zurich." Many people recommend Lucerne rather than Zurich as a stop that's not in the mountains.

I also need to clarify what I wrote about the Cinque Terre and the Amalfi Coast. I didn't mean that you shouldn't go there (though they are overrun, and it's arguable that you don't have time for either one), but rather that most folks would discourage driving there.

Posted by
2737 posts

The only way to figure out whether a car/train/airplane is cost effective is to pencil out and compare the cost for each option, including time. Flights in Europe can be reasonable cost but could take longer than the train when you factor in the time element (e.g. getting to airport, security, etc.) You can sometimes save $ on train tickets purchasing ahead of time, but you have to know where you're going first. It sounds like you've ruled out a car rental for multiple days, but it could be an option for day trips, when you don't have to consider packing up your giant bags. It is a chicken/egg problem but the sooner you land on itinerary the better chance you'll have finding those advance planning deals.

And that brings to mind one more thought - given time of year (peak summer travel) and the fact you'll need lodgings that will accommodate 4 grown ups with at least three separate beds, getting the route nailed down will certainly help you find acceptable lodgings. Depending on location, you may need to book two rooms.

Posted by
4 posts

Considering (high) cost of tourism in Switzerland and giving ourselves adequate time there, we have decided to drop Paris. Between Dolomites and Switzerland, I finally settled for the latter due to the larger number of tourist locations and I found that I wasn't saving very much on lodging between the two, compared to the overall trip cost, and considering it's once in a lifetime kind of trip. Have worked out a tentative itinerary for Switzerland as follows (for the month of June 2025): -

Day 0 Arrival Zurich (afternoon);
Day 0-2 Zurich sight seeing, Rhine Falls;
Day 2 Zurich to Lauterbrunnen (lodging) and go around on day trips from there;
Day 3 Gimmelwald, Schilthorn peak?;
Day 4 Jungfraujoch (have planned this early allowing for postponement due to weather);
Day 5 Interlaken & Lucerne;
Day 6 Grindelwald, First cliff walk tour;
Day 7 Blausee & Oeschinsee lakes;
Day 8 Hike / Rest;
Day 9 Fly/ Train? to Italy;

The next question is - which pass would make most sense among Swiss Travel Pass (8 days), Half Fare Card, Berner-Oberland pass & Day saver pass (purchased six months in advance)? Its so confusing. I understand that Day saver card is not applicable to travel to places higher than Lauterbrunnen, which means that I cannot use it for half the places in my itinerary. I also understand that Half Fare Cards do not offer 50% discount on all the above places. As we will be travelling to and spending a week in Italy also, would some "European" pass that covers both countries be better than the above Swiss-only passes? Is there any easy way to make the correct decision?

Will spend some time working on the Italian itinerary next.

Posted by
3643 posts

On the packing question. . . I am not one of the pack- light enthusiasts who often post here. However, 32” bags seem way over the top to me. We haven’t taken larger than 20” bags plus a carry-on each for multiple trips to Europe. I have found it quite easy to be clean and look nice. The main reason for the carry-on is to ensure having meds, something to sleep in, and a change of clothes, should our checked bags be delayed.
The Dolomites are a great suggestion. The area is beautiful in and of itself; and because of the geology, quite unusual. Imo, N.America has many areas with nicer beaches than those in the European places you’ve listed.

Posted by
5634 posts

Please explain where you are proposing to sleep in the Berner Oberland. I'm confused which are day trips and which are location changes, And-planning by nights usually is more functional.
It's fun watching your planning evolve as you receive input. It is a wise person who can learn from others. Carry on!

Posted by
11898 posts

Day 9 Fly/ Train? to Italy;

From where and to where?

If Venice is your first stop in Italy, train could be the better choice vs flying.

Posted by
10612 posts

Two things-
I know 16-18 days seems like a long time. It really isn’t. If that includes your travel days too and from Europe you are losing about 2.5 days right there. Paris is my favorite city so it pains me to say this, but in my opinion you would be better off time wise to just go to Italy. You can see the mountains, cities, smaller towns and potentially the beach if you’re interested in that. Remember that if you only spend two nights somewhere you will only be there for one full day. I would say that a minimum 3 nights each in cities like Venice, Florence and Rome would be okay. I haven’t been to the Dolomites and I don’t know what your goals are for a mountain visit. Are you hikers? Are interested in seeing any of the Italian lakes? Lake Garda isn’t too far from Venice and is very close to Verona. Driving in Italy is a challenge and with the size of luggage you are describing you would need a pretty large vehicle.

As for packing, it is a choice whether to pack light or to pack more. My choice is to pack light because I know the potential difficulties of all the stairs and getting on and off trains. Not to mention rolling your luggage across rough surfaces. I prefer to make my life easier. My husband and I just returned last night from almost 7 weeks in Europe and each of us had a 21” carry on sized bag and a backpack for our personal bag. We traveled entirely by train except a short time when we were in Germany with family and traveled in their car. Trains had overhead space to put luggage, but I don’t think anything bigger than 22” or so would fit. They also have luggage racks, but they are often full. I would encourage you all to pare down what you bring with you.

I hope you have a fantastic trip.

Posted by
1511 posts

Myself, if I was looking for scenic and famous, but not museums, etc., and traveling with someone who's somewhat limited in walking, I'd consider Paris, Lake Constance, Milan, and Rome as one axis, another being Paris, Constance, Salzburg, Vienna. You should visit Paris, it's too much of an icon to pass up. Lake Constance has scenery, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and even Lichtenstein all right there with more things to do and see than you can fit into two weeks. Plus, it's a major vacation destination for most of Europe. Milan isn't the prettiest of Italian cities, but it's a major transportation hub and probably the best choice if you swing south. Rome is, IMO, a city where you need to walk, which you indicated may be an issue (Venice is also). Salzburg is very scenic, as is the country around it, and Vienna is (again, my opinion) at least as romantic as Paris.

Still, my general rule is to pick the three things you (and the family) absolutely have to see, and then plan the trip around those. Once you have a basic itinerary then you can start to fill in details like travel point to point, and where to stay.