twenty year olds to europe

I think seven weeks would be great provided they really like each other. I did a trip that length in my early twenties and hosteled and trained it too. I'd never been out of North America before. Your daughter and her friend will be just fine and it will probably be years if not decades before they have that many weeks of vacation to string together at once. Let them do it while they have the time and the energy to do it cheap. Germany is expensive, but Spain is cheap. If they did Spain first, they could cross through Basque country to Paris, do a short jaunt through Germany, exit to Venice, and work their way down to Rome. Alternatively they could skip Germany and head down through France to Milan, do Lake Como and Venice and then down to Rome.

How can a trip be too long?? I think with all those places on their wish trip 7 weeks is ideal . I sorry, I am totally with them, and I too have kids your age! My friend and I did 12 weeks together when we were 23 , and it seriously was the best trip of my life! I do tend to agree maybe cutting out Germany, ,or Spain, but thats up to them . Just remind them of a few facts, the more you move( flights or trains) the more you spend. And, never spend less then 2 nights anywhere, as 2 nights is only one full day. I personally think almost everywhere deserves 4-5 nights, especially since they have a generous amount of time .

IMO 6-7 wks is a very long time for 20 yr olds. And they will prob get a little home sick after a while anyway. Hopefully they are very mature and can sense trouble etc. and can excerise good judment. Gd thing is email is everywhere for them to connect w/ you. maybe you could negotiate down to half of what they propose. Like France and Italy and then reduce time to less once you see their proposed routing/ lodging itinerary. Hopefully they would spreadsheet everything for you incl all costs and transportation. A 2 country railpass would prob work out well for them also. That way you would know they are serious and are really interested in what they will see. In my 20's I was in England but I would train out for the day in Britain and return to my aunts home every night.
By about wk 3 I was ready to come home eventho I love my aunt.

Well maybe I should say that it is too long a trip if I am not with them:)) Yes I admit. I am SO JEALOUS. Is it possible to put together a trip on your own? If they fly into Barcelona or Madrid, then north towards Paris, then down through Italy and home from Rome does that make sense to anyone. Will they be able to find Hostels - would you recommend reservations? Thanks for the fast responses.

I agree, let them go for it. Just have them discuss beforehand what they want to do, see. Does one want cathedrals and other museums and come to common ground and agree to be flexible. My friend and I did something similar and she is early morning person and I am definitely not at all. She would get up early, have her breakfast and let me sleep. At night, she was in bed early and I had time to read. We understood our individual needs and worked it out well.

If they go with and understand about the importance of flexibility and give and take they should be fine. They need to just set up some ground rules. They don't have to tour every city in lock step. In my early 20's I visited Greece with a friend, our basic ground rule was that we could split up for a day. We only ended up doing it once, but the rule helped. An awful lot of 20 somethings have done this kind of trip for 6-7 weeks. I think that they should do it now while they can. Once you get a job, you get stuck and it's hard to find the freedom. Also, when you're 20 hostels are great. They will meet other people in their travels. Pam

The fact your daughter thinks she will be gone at least 6-7 weeks to visit 4 different countries means she's already smarter than a lot of older people who post their proposed itineraries on this Helpline asking if they should add 1 more country to the 6 countries in 3 weeks they listed. She's 20. She's not going on a solo trip...she's with a friend. Both traveled overseas on tours and with family before. Unless you are holding the purse strings, there's really not much leverage for you to insist she not be gone for so long. If you aren't funding her trip, I don't think it's any of your business asking her to produce a spreadsheet showing you her detailed budget (as someone else suggested). As her mother, by all means stress that she & her friend take the time to thoroughly research how much this trip will cost and to not hold back. Trains are necessary since they are too young to rent a car. Dorm rooms in hostels are a smart option in case one of them drops out of the trip at the last minute, the other one has the option to travel solo & won't have to make up the difference in cost for a hotel room. But they should get a rough idea of what it will cost them at each stop along the way for admissions to sights, in-city public transit (bus & metro tickets or passes), food (other than ramen noodles from the local grocery), nightlife (club admissions & drink prices), etc. They should price these costs for both big cities (like Paris, Barcelona, Rome and Berlin) and for small towns as there will be a significant difference in some costs depending on where they want to spend more time (the city or the countryside). Once they see their numbers, they can make a better decision as to whether 6-7 weeks is possible, or to scale back the trip.

As for whether they will be able to find hostels and if they need a reservation... the newer flashier hostels often book up quickly during peak tourist season. If there is a festival going on somewhere they happen to be, it's a very good idea to try to book ahead for a room. Some months (like August) are when many Europeans take their own vacations so if they are planning to head to coastal areas (like Rimini, Nice, Ibiza, etc) they may want to book in advance. They should be looking at websites like hostelworld.com for reviews from other travelers about cleanliness, safety, noise levels, etc. Some hostels are party palaces and some are quiet and boring. Some cater to school groups and 20 somethings, others to older travelers or families. Some are tricked out with lots of amenities and others are complete dumps. Some have lock-outs during the middle of the day, others do not. They should know what they are getting ahead of time by reading a lot of reviews and making a list of possible choices to contact. Rick Steves mentions 1 or 2 hostels in his guidebooks, but his target audience is older with a little more money to spend on lodging. They should be looking at Rough Guide or Lonely Planet guidebooks in addition to hostel review websites like the one mentioned above.

If they are traveling in summer then yes on hostel reservations for sure.

20 yr olds being forced to show mommy and daddy spread sheets, really,, unless mommy and daddy are paying for the trip I think that is over controlling and belittling. I agree going over basic plans and making sure budget is roughly realistic is a good idea, but seriously , everyone needs to learn to make do sometimes. We ate sandwiches and bought food in grocery stores alot,, we roughed it a bit, but had a great time. And yes, they do display alot more common sense then some older folks here who post and ask how to do 5 countries in 10 days.. And a very very good point is this,, at this age they have 7 weeks to travel, they won't likely have that kind of time again for a decade at least.. new careers, small kids etc..

Does it matter what you say? I mean, yes, it's nice to assume our grown children value our input but really, we're talking about adults. Unless they seek your advice, I don't know that your opinon on the length of the trip is of particular import. It sounds ideal to me. My oldest is just turning 17, but give him a few years and I can't see holding him back from an adventure like this. Doesn't mean I won't have normal concerns we mothers tend to create, but ultimately, it's about him, not me. I'd let your daughter and her friend do their own research ~ and yes, of course people can plan their own trip ~ and figure things out for themselves. I'm sure they're aware there are plenty of people and resources to turn to should they need information. I hope they have a grand time!

Even if you're paying for your daughter's trip, my advice is to allow her to plan it with as little "guidance" from you as possible. They're 20 years old after all, and they're not talking about hiking the length of the DMZ for 6-7 weeks (in which case you might need to offer your learned opinion and control their choice of vacation spot). It's Europe...all civilized and what not. Of course they can plan it all out for a great trip by themselves. And don't be jealous...be happy for your daughter. I have to say that I agree with nearly everything Pat said, but we're also not talking about 12 year-old Girl Scouts. :)

I agree with Ceidleh, not unsurprisingly. Why do you want them to leave Germany off? It's probably the safest and easiest country to get around for Americans out of all the ones listed, and with the exception of some parts of Munich/the South, it's the cheapest country too, particularly in the east/Berlin. (Also, Spain is cheap? Maybe in some regions but neither Barcelona nor Madrid, where most travelers visit, are) I think if their budget is limited they should plan ahead as much as possible, because that tends to save money. Many of the most desirable hotels to book up. Point to point tickets may be cheaper than railpasses, especially given the reservation aspect required on high speed trains in France and Italy.

I'm with Ceidleh and Pat on this one. If anything I'd told them to stay LONGER. They are already understanding that you cannot handle such an itinerary sensibly in a 2-3 week time frame. In my experience, longer stays end up costing not much more as you don't have to spend as much on fast and expensive transportation. This is the time in their lives where they can do it and learn a lot for the next phase of their lives.

I think they'll have a great time. The key will be flexibility. While hostel reservations are a good idea in summer and anywhere there is a major event going on, they shouldn't get too locked down on a schedule. This is also a case where a railpass actually might make sense. Cheap fares for advanced tickets lock them in to a certain itinerary that isn't what they need. They can pick up seat reservations as they go. They should plan a tentative schedule that outlines what they want to do for the 6-7 weeks. Then set up reservations for the first week or two. With internet, they can easily lock in reservations as they go and make changes to their itinerary too. And email will keep them in touch with parents on where they are and how they are doing. When I travelled Europe in college, I'd be out of touch for weeks since there was no internet, Skype or cheap cell phones. Probably kept my mom awake at night, but we all survived.

1) I think 6 - 7 weeks is a great length - and that they should go for it! After all, as they get older/get jobs/get settled, when will they ever have that long again to explore and discover and have adventures! I did an almost 6 month trip to Europe when I was 17, and it was awesome - a life changing experience. Didn't get sick of my traveling companion, either. We are still friends! 2) Why avoid Germany? Germany is actually rather wonderful for Americans in the middle of a loooooooong trip to "foreign lands." It's not nearly as culturally distinct from America as France, Spain, or Italy (IMHO). At 17, I felt wonderfully "at home" in Germany, which was a nice relaxing breather in the middle of a long spell away from home. So yes, I have a suggestion. Let them go where they want, for 6 - 7 weeks, and relax. (And try to refrain from micro-managing.) They will have a blast!

Wanted to add that I, too, am wondering why you're suggesting they leave Germany off the itinerary...?

It sounds fabulous to me, and this is probably the most perfect time in their lives to do it. I totally understand the jealousy and worrying part, but given today's great tools for communicating across the pond, you can have daily contact with the girls if you'd like. Maybe that will make it a bit easier.
You asked if they could do it on their own. Absolutely. Maybe buy them Rick Steves' Europe Through the Back Door and try to encourage them to read it cover to cover. Then pick up some Lonely Planet or Rick Steves travel books at the library (to keep cost down) and start planning it out. It is a good idea to book some hostels ahead of time, especially in the bigger cities and if you are coming across a special event in a town. Also encourage them to come here and ask lots of questions. Personally, I think they can do all four countries given their amount of time. The only other thing is the budget. Do they have enough money for moving around in another country? What's the total budget?

Oh yeslet them go!!! Like many others here, I "Eurailed" around Europe with a pal for several weeks at 19. At 21, I spent 8 weeks biking thru Germany and Austria with a boyfriend. Absolutely fantastic experiences. The only contact my parents had was a postcard from each place we visited! I still use travel skills I learned on my first tripof course the most powerful lessons were the unexpected things that I just had to cope with in the moment.
Your girls could plan a few key stops to make reservations, but other than that, I think a significant part of the fun is waking up each morning and saying, "Where shall we go today?" Or, "Hey, let's go to the village festival listed on that poster in the train station." Or whatever. The joy of being that young and having so much time is the FREEDOM! Also, as they travel, they will meet others their age who will clue them in on cool hostels, ones to avoid, great pubs, etc. All part of the fun. Also, IMHO, who cares how many countries they want to visit? My pace was about twice as fast in those days! I don't remember ever being tired. I think they could do 6 or 7 countries in 7 weeks. Why not? Sample the smorgasbord and assume you will return.

They will figure it out, and some of it as they go along. There will be all the stresses and drama of foreign travel... and there will be the memories of a lifetime. Try and let them make their own plans and only give advice when asked... and actually they might want to post a few questions here as it is easier to take advice (or not) from strangers.

Hi all, wow what a lot of responses! The only reason I thought to ski Germany was that it seems to 'fit' with Austria, Switzerland etc and France, Spain and Italy 'fit' together. The girls so far have saved just under 5k each and would like not to spend more than that. They were originally going to Australia with the money but for some reason have changed their minds. They may change it back again too. I was 20 something my first trip to Europe but that was long ago obit looks different from the Mom perspective but as everyone says it will be a good thing for the girls. The spreadsheet is actually a normal activity in our family for major purchases/budgets so that isn't concerning. I never thought past Rick Steve's for info so I will pass the other suggestions along. They are reading these posts too so thanks again for the suggestions esp regarding hostels and transportation

While Australia is a great place to travel, this sounds like a summer trip and when it's summer here, it's winter in Australia. Not to mention a huge chunk of their savings will be eaten up to purchase airfare and because of its size, internal flights are often needed to get from one point to another quickly unless you like spending some really long days on a bus. Airfare has been pretty high lately to Europe with a lot of summertime fares in the $1,000-$1,200 range depending on where they are flying in and/or out. And some of the cities they want to see are pricey. Sounds to me like they are going to have about $75 to $95 USD per day depending on if this is a 6 or 7 week trip. If that amount is for all meals, admissions, long haul train tickets and in-city public transit, plus nightlife and a hostel bed in a multi bed dorm, that can be a real challenge some days to keep to the budget in bigger cities where just a hostel bunk can run upwards towards the 30Euro/night vicinity. If they can save a little more towards the transportation costs before they leave that would be ideal if they want to keep the trip at 7 weeks.

For 20 year olds, their best guidebooks would be the Let's Go, Lonely Planet and Rough Guide series. Point them towards these books and let them do the planning.