Trying to determine kid stamina before committing to overseas trip

Not with Europe, but have you ever done a Disney vacation? Europe is way less intense than that. On the other hand, Europe may be less interesting or stimulating for kids as well.

9 could be young but if the older children model excitement then the 9 year old will go along. A lot depends on the oldest child’s level of interest.

Normandy is a bit hard, fairly far from CDG. You will need a minivan and these are available but probably stick shift. There are ferries from UK but for a rental car it might be a challenge to get a large vehicle at the port.

I would stick to the UK and save France for another trip.

You’ve left buying tickets a bit late. If you return on Delta/Air France via Minneapolis the immigration process and airport layout will be a lot less challenging than say JFK, O’Hare or Atlanta.

Europe is NOT family friendly, at least families larger than 3, lodging for 6 will be an enormous challenge.

I would let them help with the planning and make sure to include sights or activities that are of interest to them, even if they aren't your preferred activities. For instance, when we went to Paris, our daughters wanted to go to Disneyland. It wouldn't have been our choice to spend one of our Paris days going there, but we did it, because it was their trip, too. In London, they wanted to go shopping in Carnaby Street, so we did that. (Our trip was 8 days in Paris and 3 in London.)

When our kids were a little younger (10, 7, and 4), we went to Ottawa, and we made sure to stay at a hotel with a pool. They were troopers, going to historic sites, museums, and galleries, but there was always the reward of playing in the pool at the end of the day.

So, if you let them have input and choose some activities, it can be enjoyable for everyone.

Well, I did, but I only had 2 with me, and both were VERY eager to visit any place in Europe, so that helped a lot.

Have you thought about showing him (or them) some videos or movies featuring England and France? That often helps to stimulate an excitement for travel to places they've seen on TV. Have they seen the Harry Potter movies? A lot of times, fear is based on that unknown factor, so having him watch movies that feature where you are going will definitely help.

Another thought is to tell him that you can FaceTime (or some other video chat) your neighbor halfway through the trip, so that he could see the rabbit is doing well. We scheduled a FaceTime session in the hotel (using wifi) between the kids and their family back home, and they loved talking to them about everything they were seeing.

I realize this will vary wildly per family and child but I kind of think that more days that are less busy would be less tiring for the kids than busier but fewer days.

I do agree with that. Once you commit to coming over, it's better (imo) to stretch it out and alternate busy days with less-busy ones. We did that more than I thought we would but it worked. They enjoyed sleeping in every few days, and sometimes getting back to the hotel early so that we could "picnic" in our room. Honestly, I think they liked bringing take away food to the hotel more than they liked eating out.

I do think it's a wonderful idea, and wish you luck implementing it. Feel free to post here or PM me if you have any specific questions I can help with.

ETA: I agree with Toby that adding in Normandy would be difficult, and since it's more interesting to you than the kids, it might be better to save that for another time. Also, if you skip Normandy, you could potentially shorten your trip to 10 days, which might be easier for your 9-year old to handle.

Europe is NOT family friendly, at least families larger than 3, lodging for 6 will be an enormous challenge.

I disagree. It will be a challenge but not an enormous one. There are plenty of apartments and Airbnbs in London and other parts that will sleep 6 people. Or you could get 2 triple rooms at a more budget-oriented hotel, although I think the apartment would probably cost less than two rooms. But I would definitely start looking early.

Will you be taking grandkids on a trip again a few years later? In other words, do you anticipate there could be a chance for this grandchild to take a trip with you later? Regardless of age - even adults, frankly, I would think through how this trip will go with someone who is not 100% excited. The comment about the rabbit feels like there’s more reasons behind the child’s hesitancy. If they aren’t usually an adventurous traveler for domestic trips, this idea might be setting yourself up for disappointment.

I’ll just add that with 4 kids and the age span you have; seize this opportunity! 13 nights seems very reasonable. Not too short, not too long. The 16 year old will soon enough be in college, maybe do a summer abroad program, internships, a job. It’s not the last chance to travel together as a family, but things change as they enter young adulthood and beyond. (You’re already working around his/her community college now.) Make sure all of the kids make a few decisions about your family travel plan itinerary. Enjoy!

I took my son to Europe when he was 12. We stayed for 7 months. He did not enjoy every minute of that trip and was quietly thrilled when I got sick and we had to come home before our planned year was up. He turns 19 tomorrow and is saving up for a three-month solo trip to SE Asia.
My recommendation is to take all the time you possibly can and build in lots of down time and non-tourism fun (like going to a beach where they can swim and play in addition to the D-Day beaches where they need to be more solemn). Involve the children in the planning by showing them grandpa's artifacts (or otherwise introducing them to his experience), reading relevant books, watching age-appropriate TV shows set in your locations, etc., and choose some sights and activities that align with their interests (visit a farm where you can pet baby goats? I don't know of one, but that is something my son and I did in Victoria BC when he was probably 9, and we still talk about it).
It should go without saying that you'll be better served by AirBnB-type accommodation than hotels. Choose places that have game rooms or pools or something that appeals to kids. Going to the grocery store and seeing what flavors of Fanta they had was always a bit of fun for my son. We have always had "snacks" for dinner in our house about once a week, so building a mix of fresh, healthy snacks and salty treats is second nature. This is a very easy way to feed a big group on the go or at your accommodation without anyone having to spend a bunch of time in the kitchen. Also, the ready-made meals in shops like Marks and Spencer are very nice and not too expensive.
With two parents and four kids, split up as necessary. And don't begrudge anyone their screen time when you're on the trains/in the car.

I only have experience with one young teenager, but the trip was eye opening.

Consider the pace, I found slower was better. 13 nights? maybe four stops max.

Leave lots of unplanned time in the itinerary. History means something to you, you lived some of it, learned about much more. You see a grand castle when visiting a site, they just see a bunch of rocks. My daughter was just as happy, maybe happier, just being in a park, looking in stores, or sitting in the hotel room reading a book, rather than hitting museums or churches.

I would let them help with the planning and make sure to include sights or activities that are of interest to them, even if they aren't your preferred activities.

Excellent advice! The more they are invested in the planning of activities, the better the trip will be for all. Not that kids who are that different in age are ever a problem.

We always traveled with our kids when we went to Europe. We started when they were 4 and 7, and that was my first overseas trip as well. That trip was only about 8 or 9 days, so fairly short. The next trip was a year later and we went for 11 days. The next one was 3 weeks, and they were 8 and 10 for that one. On that trip, we included Normandy and while our son was a tad young for it, my husband had just returned from a 6 month deployment, so he understood part of it. We just kept on taking the kids and actually still do even though they are in their 30's, lol.

Traveling with kids is a lot of fun, IME. You see things from a difference perspective and they find things that you may not have thought of. You do go at a slower pace, but it is worth it.

I would not hesitate to book this at all. As someone else already said, once your younger one sees the other excited, that will help. Also get him involved, but not so much that it feels like homework. You can sit around as a family and brainstorm, watch You Tube video's to give them an idea, get books from the library, etc. Doing it as a family though works better, IME, as they tend to be more responsive.

We took our daughter to France for spring break week when she was in Kindergarten - not quite 6 yrs old - and she had a blast! I think the key was mixing the sightseeing with kid stuff, like a fairly brief tour of the Notre Dame followed by a visit to the adjoining playground. If you include the kids in your planning and balance things so everybody gets to do something they like I think you’ll be fine. Good luck!

We never asked our children how many days they’d prefer. They were 11 and 14 when we went. We told them we were going to Spain for 18 days; end of discussion. We did ensure we did things and visited places of interest to them. Other than the Prado that they couldn’t get out of quickly enough, they both had a good time.

I’d choose pretty much anyplace over a Disney vacation. With as expensive as Disney is nowadays, Europe probably wouldn’t cost much more. Go to Europe.

I lived overseas for a total of nine years, 5 years in Saudi Arabia and 4 years in Germany. Those two were not back to back.
I had kids and step-children from the age of 5 up to teens.

My current grandchildren are teens now and their parents take them on overseas trips and the grandchildren seems to want to be making love with their phones, computers and games. This generation is now at all like mine or my children's generation.

My direct experience was that with the younger end of the spectrum, going through museums became more difficult. After thirty minutes at the Lourve, my 7 year old asked when we were leaving. Still, I remember that same 7 year old on that same trip in Rome at the Sistine Chapel, was in awe of it and didn't want to leave it. He wanted me to explain what all the frescoes meant.

We never went out of our way to do kid stuff, we focused on historical place, culture and art as well as scenic places like Switzerland.
The kids loved going up the Eiffel Tower, taking a gondola ride in Venice and navigating the Roman Coliseum and Forum.

Prior to a trip, I would give my kids books to read about the places we were visiting, so they had some background.
I think it is a mistake to try to do something like Euro Disney instead of doing real history.

Allan - no we're not really a Disney family. We have done car rides from Nebraska to Florida (with one overnight stop on the way each) for seeing friends, the beach and such, and drove to the Black Hills and we did a lot of museums and hiking there. We have a family trip to DC planned for next month for one week and that will hopefully be a good gauge of the younger kids' museum stamina; oldest has more stamina than most adults I know (she spent 19-20 hrs at the Louvre this last trip she and I just returned from).

toby - I'm planning for next year, not this, or I would definitely be stressing about being too last minute! I was thinking we'd take the Eurostar from London to Paris then train to Bayeux. Daughter and I just returned from Paris to MSP and we had almost no line with mobile passport control app. It was really nice.

BB - yes, I've definitely been encouraging them to help decide. I figure my husband and I can hopefully return later and I know we won't see everything, ever, so just try to enjoy what we can see.

Mardee- I love the idea of facetiming the rabbits! Anytime we've gotten photos of the rabbits while we're on vacation, it's been so encouraging to the kids (ha, and to me. I was asking my husband for rabbit pics while we were in Paris, they're kind of more like pet dogs than rabbits, to most people). We haven't seen the Harry Potter movies. Oldest has read the first book or two though. They have read a lot of WW2 books, though, especially the boys (the middle /twins).

I mostly thought the D Day sights would be interesting for the kids to connect with my dad over. I know we won't have him around forever so I thought it would be special.

Jean , These are my kids, not grandkids. Yeah, he's not my most adventurous kid, doesn't always like trying new things and has always been our most fearful child. But he did like the idea of a castle with falconry (in the Lake District) and the Herwick sheep experience. He's also interested in D Day sites, but I do understand that adds a lot to this....but we're just at that narrow window where we have all 4 kids, before oldest really heads off to college stuff. It's hard having 7 years between oldest and youngest for this sort of thing.

KD - that's what my husband and I have been thinking. And only relatively recently have we had the margin in our budget to plan something like this. Not that anyone asked, but we're super frugal but are prioritizing trips in our budget while we live really simply everywhere else.

G3rryCee - thank you! I had been kind of thinking that. And yes, even in the US, airbnb type of places have worked better and then we have the kitchen, too.

Paul, thank you for that.

TC- yes! Like I said, I don't want this to be my trip, I want it to be for all of us.

mikliz97 - thank you for your and your husband's service and sacrifices for our country. Thank you! I am glad you still can travel with your kids!

johnt thanks!

jaimeelsabio - Disney is on my list to never go, for a variety of reasons.

geovagriffith - I agree. Definitely not doing Disney. My kids don't have phones but technology is such a tricky area for navigation these days. I would say as a homeschool family they're likely above average in interest in history , though that's not an attempt at critizing those who aren't schooling at home.

Just to clarify, nowhere did I suggest that you go to Disney. I merely gave it as an example of something our kids wanted to do that we went along with. (I guess our kids aren't as highbrow as some. :) )

Lodging: I got some hotels to work with 2 rooms and 3 children, it’s not easy. Once splurged on 3 hotel rooms. Apartments will work but location sometimes has to be compromised to get a large enough apartment. Once for 3 nights we put a child on the floor with a sleeping bag, not necessarily a big deal in the US but against the rules in Europe. There are no side (unmonitored) doors in European hotels so everyone has to pass the front desk and they do count heads.

I sense there was some misunderstanding of my comment regarding Disney as well. I wasn't suggesting it, but comparing it to being much more instense than a European adventure if you have low stamina travellers.

I'm not a fan of VRBO or AirBNB, but there are companies that rent apartments and that would be your best bet in London. You may want to consider a visit to the zoo in London. I guess because of their former empire, they had lots of animals that we hadn't seen at zoos in the US. We went there because our college freshman daughter wanted to go there. I'm sure your son will also enjoy the Tower of London and I believe you said he is interested in WWII, so he should go to the Churchill War Rooms, which again were requested by our daughter when she was in college. I think some time at British Museum is a must for y'all., but you could probably skip the other museums. I've never been to Normandy-I'm not interested in most war sites-but given your son's interest and your dad's connection, I think you should prioritize this. Skip Paris and just stay a couple of days in the Normandy area. Maybe just London and Lake District in England. I did the falconry thing at Ashford Castle in Ireland and it was so much fun. You could also let the children take turns choosing where to eat dinner each night, and remember that they're allowed to eat in pubs.

Europe is NOT family friendly, at least families larger than 3, lodging for 6 will be an enormous challenge.

I beg to differ. It's funny — in fact, European families go on lots of vacations! Maybe it's a well-hidden secret.

When our kids were young (they are adults now), for traveling in the US or Europe, they were really happy with me coming up with suggestions for locations and things to do - though I did try to get them to research on their own. I tried to come up with things that fit their interests, then asked them. For example, one kid was really into spies. So on our trip to London, we took an excellent walking tour called Spies and Spymasters, from LondonWalks. It was a big hit.

We spent time in the Loire Valley visiting castles; that was a lot of fun for everyone.

Are the kids accustomed to big cities? If less so, make sure they understand they will be walking on city streets, taking public transportation, big and busy train stations, etc. If any of your kids are overwhelmed by noise, come up with coping strategies for that, too - go into a quiet store, or find a nearby park. Also, of course, make sure they know the name and address of your hotel and where to go to for help if they get separated from you.

We did taste-testing adventures. For example, we would buy macarons from various pastry shops (patisseries), and try different flavors.

We tried, as much as possible, to NOT book too many things ahead of time, then add things later once we really knew what they liked. One 10yo liked art museums more than we anticipated (one of my favorite places to visit), so we added some to our visit to Rome.

You may want one of the parents to spend some quiet time with the less adventurous kid, doing quieter things or just hanging out.

We tried to go to typical restaurants, and we have never focused on ordering from the "children" parts of menus. We did, however, come up with one item that most restaurants could prepare, in case there was a meltdown or indecision. In France, for one kid, it was steak-frites. In Italy, for another kid, it was spaghetti aglio - olio. We ended up having to do that once (due to indecision). Also, take them out to a casual French restaurant before your trip, if possible, or have French meals at home.

There’s plenty of family sized accommodation in Europe. Hotels won’t work but self contained apartments and houses will be perfect.

In June my family (myself, wife and 17 year old triplets) are going to Germany and Austria for 3 weeks. Since we bought plane tickets last August, I've been excited for this for almost a year! Them, not as much. First trip to Europe for them, but we've taken several international vacations. I would ask questions to solicit advice and watch YouTube videos for ideas. It was just too much for them, and turned them off. One is more excited than the others, and one is more reluctant. Finally, I told her we should observe Kaffee and Kuchen every day if possible. Now she's more into it. I know they don't enjoy our trips to art museums. So we'll skip those this round and get our art fix from palaces and cathedrals, which they will like. I have an itinerary for every day. It's our guide so we never wake up in the morning and have to spend the first three hours determining what to do. We'll start the day at a good time, sight-see, rest at lunch, see something in the afternoon, then have evenings off. And if it's raining too much, we're tired, or we just want to do something else, we scratch that day off the itinerary or replace it with another day that had things lower priority.

Our daughters were 12 and 15 when we took them to Europe for the first time for 3 weeks. My mother-in-law also joined us. Our daughters didn't especially want to go, but by the end of the second day they loved it: "Why didn't you tell us this would be so interesting?" was what the younger one said. LOL. She thought she would miss her friends, but once we were in Europe and doing interesting things, she forgot all about that.

We had heard that longer stays and apartments or cottages were best for families, so that is what we did, with one week in Stirling, Scotland (the castles were an instant hit), one week in London, and one week near Bath. Having a cottage in Stirling, apartment in London, and small house near Bath gave us room to relax in the evenings,. I don't think you need a full week in each location, but I do think you want to limit moving around.

We didn't really involve our girls in planning, although we did include activities that we thought would appeal to them. It's a great idea to involve them, especially with the reluctant child.

Both of our daughters have loved to travel ever since.

Not trying to be dense, but how can we skip Paris if we're going to Normandy? I thought London to Paris via Eurostar was the fastest way to get to Normandy from London?

Oh, I didn't think anyone was suggesting that we go to Disneyland! I'm sorry if I made it sound like I was.

Our city is under 300,000 and we don't use the bus because we have cars, but I was just wondering if maybe we should take them on the bus just to show them? We're going to be using the Metro in DC in a few weeks, though. They're good at crossing city streets.

Yes, British Museum is high on my list! I'm also fine with taking the girls to a different museum or activity if my husband and the boys want to spend longer at the Imperial War Museum or Churchill War Rooms than we want to.

I meant you could skip staying and sightseeing in Paris.

Crossing streets will be different and more dangerous in England because they drive on the other side of the street.

Your daughter might enjoy the Victoria and Albert Museum and they have a beautiful place to eat lunch. Or take her to Windsor for the day while the men do war things.

Thanks Cala. Yeah, I don't want to spend more than the obligatory overnight in Paris. Just got back from 11 nights in Paris with my oldest, and it was lovely, but that's not the focus of this trip.

We took our kids for 28 days to Italy when they were 8, 12 and 14. So similar ages. It was my first trip to Europe as well. We had done lots of domestic travel before that, so they had experience on planes etc.

We found that we did best with a quiet day about every 3 days. For example in Venice I took the kids to the only grassy area one day so my son could just run and kick a ball. Train travel can be a great rest day too.
You are only as strong as your weakest link. Plan to feed them more often than usual, as the food is a bit different, and you are probably walking more. We probably did less museums than normal, partly due to cost, but we enjoyed exploring, gelato etc. We also would split us some times.

We all think of it as a great trip. Our youngest does not remember it all, but remembers some of it as well as the stories.

We took our boys to England with a side trip to Paris (per the younger son's request) when they were 12 and 17. We went for 3 weeks since my husband wanted to stay at least that long if we were making an international flight. Everyone got to chose 3 things they wanted to do on the trip which we made sure to fit into the schedule. The younger son wanted to see the Tower of London, Stonehenge and Napoleon's Tomb--yes he enjoys history. The older son only wanted to skateboard, so we traveled with the hardware, bought a deck in London, and he skated in the suburb where we had rented a townhouse, and at our friends' house in the south of England. They kindly mailed the skateboard home for us before we took off for Paris on the Eurostar. Then we came back for a 1 week road tour of Bath, Stratford upon Avon, York, and a small town in East Anglia because I had spent a month there with my friend back in 1977. Because the youngest was 12, we didn't really plan for park days or playgrounds, but we tried to be flexible with how long we stuck with an activity, or whether we threw out the plan entirely. So we spent much longer at the Eiffel Tower than we had planned, but abandoned the Louvre after seeing the 3 things on our list because the place was an absolute madhouse.

The end result of this trip was that both boys caught the travel bug and are more extensively traveled than we are at the moment. The younger son studied French instead of the usual Spanish here in southern California because he fell in love with the sound of the language while we were in France. The older one is champing at the bit to take his 3 kids over to Europe now that they live on the east coast and the flights are shorter, but the 4 year old is still not really happy with flying more than a couple hours. Coming to our house for Easter will be the big experiment to see if his stamina has improved in the last 16 months.

So short story long--I'd say go for it! Do try some local public transport, a local art museum, a play or other activities similar to what you might experience on your trip to build familiarity. We had always made it a point to take the boys to a wide variety of cultural events while they were growing up. We even had a year where every quarter we ate at a restaurant that served a cuisine we'd never eaten before. So once we were in Europe trying different foods, going to the British Museum, and seeing a play at The Globe were new things but not unfamiliar things.

Go for it! We took our three boys, aged 10, 8, & 4, to New Zealand in December. Yes, I was nervous about the long flight. It was an amazing trip and we had such a wonderful time as a family. We were gone 16 days and only did the North Island. We can't wait to get back and see the South Island.

Last summer, we took them to Switzerland for 10 days. This summer, we're going to Norway, also for 10 days. I'm wishing we had more time in Norway, but we hope to plan another trip someday for the other parts we won't see this time. (We have a thing for mountains, and ocean, and outdoors type things). I also took 30 high schoolers to Greece and Italy last year. (! and it was fun!)

There will be be hiccups and grumpy moments, of course. But, your kids will feed off of your excitement as you plan this trip and live these experiences together. Try and minimize the number of times you switch lodgings to keep the moving chaos to a minimum, and look into an apartment so that everyone can spread out a little more and breakfast/coffee can be procured as soon as possible. :)

I was wondering if your youngest difficulty is not really stamina per se but that he is more of a homebody. I was thinking that might be the case because of his comment about not wanting to be away from his rabbit for so long.

If so, he may enjoy himself a lot more, if you have “homes” in Europe. By that I mean that you stay somewhere long enough for him to be comfortable. And I would guess he would really appreciate having an apartment type accommodation with more space rather than a hotel room.

The other thing to remember is he will change a lot between this year and next. We waited until our youngest was nine to go out west and there was a big difference between 8 and 9.

Seize the opportunity to sow travel seeds within your family.
Modes of transport, to me London is a gold standard for public transport. Highly recommend taking a water taxi on the Thames to gain a historical perspective.
Consider opportunities to explore where the paratroopers departed so you can see the wider perspective.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tours+of+ww+ll+parachute+basis+in+england&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

Add a ring cam to the rabbits abode. We use ring cams to check on our cats while traveling.
Travel lite in terms of luggage and expectations. Be nimble for adapting to weather, crowd, emotions, illness….
Craft food savory picnics in lieu of always having to eat out. Find a grocery store and let the kids shop.
We advocate paying for apartments while traveling with family. The extra room to spread out, more bathrooms and the benefit of a kitchen are big elements to helping all ages find some peace.

We took our kids and grandkids (now 8 & 11) to England and Ireland two years ago and Switzerland last year. Each time was 3 weeks. We all had a great time and look forward to going again next year, this summer is Hawaii and lots of soccer. We made sure we had activities that they were interested in like falconry, rib boat rides, war museums, some really neat playgrounds, hiking, The Lion King Play. The 11 year old really wants to see the Eiffel Tower and D-Day beaches, his Mom found some tour done in an army jeep, so next year may be France. As far as what they can handle or not handle all really depends on your kids. We would try and do our activities in the morning and let them do what they want in late afternoon which would be either a playground or just reading a book or doing a game on iPad. Just so they had some downtime. We fly out of Bend so it’s two flights. What worked well last time was flying to San Francisco, spending the night and taking the afternoon flight to Zurich. The year before we flew to Seattle then right on to London and the continuous flights proved to be a bit too long.

It would be expensive, but maybe you should investigate a private D-Day tour geared to your family's interests and attention span.

Thank you, all. It's one of the 11 year olds who is the more homebody kid.

Last night, I decided keeping sleeping places to London, Bayeux, then 1-2 nights in Paris (to fly out) would probably be simplest. Then we can save Beatrix Potter and Lake District for another trip (that was more my interest than the kids'). Kids are excited about the possibility of London Zoo. It's still over a year away, but nothing like travel to get a person excited for more travel.

Edit: yes I have already contacted Overlord and they'd be happy to set up a private tour for my family. For 6 people, it's about the same price to do a private tour as to pay for 6 invidual entries to a regular tour.

I'm not a fan of basing UK trips in London and then doing day trips, it's the most expensive way to go, adds up to a lot of tube/train time, and personally feel that experiencing the countryside with overnight stay(s) gets more at the heart of the country. But it's what works for you. Why did you first think of flying into Manchester, the Lake District? There's an awful lot of convenience when traveling in a larger family with having a rental car where each child gets a "homebase" set up in the minivan and gets comfortable sitting in their spot every day. This also saves having to split up for taxis and such. But a driving trip is quite a different trip so maybe not what you want.

There are affordable apartments near St Katharine Docks but don't know the name, you could ask on Fodor's Forums. The prime location (to me) would be around the British Museum if you can find something. I would try to avoid western neighborhoods like South Kensington or Earl's Court but again my preference is more central and that may not be yours. I think convenience to Heathrow is a poor criterion for choosing a location in London.

You'll have to read up on using tap credit cards for the tube and how that works with children who don't have credit cards.

Thanks toby, initially we were going to fly into Manchester and spend a few nights in the Lake District, mostly for Beatrix Potter sights. But now I think for simplicity's sake, we'll save that for a later trip and just focus on London and Bayeux. I think the only day trip I have planned is to Stonehenge because that's been on one of my son's lists of things to see since he was 5 (and he still really wants to see it). Husband doesn't want to drive in England, and he does know how to drive a manual transmission but he doesn't want to and he doesn't always express strong opinions on things, so if he says he doesn't want to, then we'll use public transportation and that's fine.

I've gotten advice to limit how many different places we sleep, and I know that does limit the variety of places we see, but I'm hoping this is a positive experience for us all and that they kids will go on to travel more on their own if they desire. (Oldest definitely already enjoys traveling).

Taking public transport adds to the experience of your travels. Recommend the train to Salisbury and using the public bus to and from the stones. Salisbury offers additional fun for the family all wrapped in one day trip. Suggest you join the Salisbury page to keep up with current happenings.
https://www.visitwiltshire.co.uk/salisbury

I have driven in England, even made the drive from Heathrow to Salisbury, and automatic transmissions are becoming more available. That said, we drive when our destinations are not as convenient for taking available public transport. Just less stress, hassle and expense with public transport.

Keep taking deep dives into researching the options. Knowledge helps build a menu from which you can choose.

Just do it as you want. Two weeks will be easy. Kids are adaptable and yours are at the age that you don't have to worry about naps so you are good to go. Some tips…

1. No more than 3 hours of car or train travel on any day. Even with devices, they get cranky.
2. Have half of the day planned for adult choice activities and half for kid’s choice.
3. No device time (phone use okay for camera) allowed except at night at the hotel or while in transit.
4. Let your kid’s pick what they want to do on a rotating basis.
5. Any time they want gelato say “Yes!”
6. Look for kid based tours for the museums. For example, there are scavenger hunt tours at the Louvre. Fabulous.
7. Let the kids pick the lunch spot. Y'all pick dinners. My girls loved the touristy places around plazas to people watch or run around the plaza while we relaxed with a glass of wine. At night they were tired and able to enjoy sitting for a two hour dinner and plan the next day.
8. Make dang sure to turn off cellular roaming.

My girls were 3 and 5 on our first trip. It was enjoyable for us even with the nap times figured in. Now they can independently navigate trains and cities like a local at 15 and 17.

I've gotten advice to limit how many different places we sleep,

All of this kind of advice can be 100% wrong for you and your family. For example the “have the children help with planning” is always dished out on these forums but a big fail for me. I rearranged nights to squeeze in Innsbruck for child #2 at his request, then he complained bitterly when we got there, even asking why we are here! My kids could easily do 12 hour drives without getting cranky, and could change lodging frequently without fuss.

The only rules to follow is what works for you.

Also 12 years ago an automatic car was easy to find to rent in the UK.

Thanks Steven, Jason, and Toby. I am sure I'll be posting more as I try to decide what all we're doing and how to pull it off. Apparently I overthink things (according to at least one family member). I can see staying in Bath a couple of nights vs London is less expensive, but I think that cuts into how many days we have to see things, for example. And I know there's more than anyone can see in one vacation or even one lifetime, so we'll see what we can, and hopefully return another year.

All I can add is we were doing a death march walking tour after arriving in Paris while talking to another couple who were in the same boat and feeling our pain. They said their kids were at the hotel "sleeping the day away." I thought that was probably a bad idea.