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Trying to choose between three one-country itineraries... (France, Italy, Spain)

For a late July-mid August trip... what do you think? Which would you choose? Recommendations to any itinerary welcome (am I missing a wonderful city or town? Is there someplace I should cut out or cut down?). My friend and I love arts/culture, architecture, good food. I love cemeteries and views. Neither of us love the heat but it's the only time we could travel, most cooler destinations are either not currently open (and unsure when they will be) or not travel priorities at the moment or too expensive (Norway, Denmark, Switzerland), so it is what it is. Hoping it's dry heat? Reliant on trains and buses (which seem to be up and running between all destinations).

1

Rome - 4 nights (previously visited Rome in 2015)
Pisa - 3 nights, with a day trip to Lucca
Genoa - 4 nights, with a day trip to Cinque Terre and Boccadesse/Camogli
Milan - 3 nights
Bergamo - 2 nights
Varenna (or another town in lakes region) - 2 nights

2

Nice - 4-5 nights, with day trips to Monaco and Antibes
Marseille - 4 nights, with a day trip to Aix-en-Provence
Avignon - 3 nights, with a day trip to Arles
Lyon - 3 nights, with a day trip to Annecy
Paris - 4 nights (have visited twice, in 2016 and 2017)

3

Madrid - 6 nights, with day trips to Toledo and El Escorial
Santiago de Compostela - 3 nights
Leon - 3 nights, with a day trip to Oviedo
Burgos - 2 nights
Bilbao - 2-3 nights
Zaragoza - 2 nights

And one two-country option, Spain + Portugal, now that Portugal is reopening to US travelers:

4

Madrid - 6 nights, with day trips to Toledo and El Escorial
Santiago de Compostela - 3 nights
Porto - 4-5 nights, with day trips to Coimbra and Braga
Lisbon - 3-4 nights (visited in 2017)

Thanks for your feedback, and take care --
Zara

Posted by
1743 posts

For a moment let's leave aside the fact that you don't like the heat and are choosing among places that will be very hot and humid.

Itinerary #1 has a few major flaws. First, I don't know why anyone would want to spend 3-4 nights in Pisa. You'd be much better off staying in Lucca and visiting Pisa as a day trip. Second. I don't know why you'd want to do a day trip to the Cinque Terre. It'll be mobbed with other day-trippers.

I don't have any comments regarding the other three itineraries.

But if you don't like the heat, why don't you go somewhere more northern, like Scotland or the Nordic countries? I'm just curious why you are choosing from among these specific options.

Posted by
3586 posts

Perhaps you already know this, but all 3 itineraries, except, perhaps, hparts of # 4, are likely to be scorchingly hot in August.

1: I wouldn’t base in Pisa. There are nicer towns, like Camogli, or better, S.Margherita Ligure. The latter has both train and ferry connections to many nearby places. I guess people will be telling you that a day trip to CT, especially in high season, is a very bad idea.

2: if you settle on this one, there are much more worthwhile places to visit than Monaco. Ditto, Marseille > Aix.

4: Except for Madrid, this one has the greatest potential for tolerable weather. You might consider using some of the days that you have allotted to Madrid for exploring the area along the Bay of Biscay. Cooler and less crowded, but full of interesting places.

Remind me someone, how do I get rid of caps?

Posted by
115 posts

Hi,
I'd go with option 2 based on what you've written as I haven't been to Spain or Portugal in almost ten years. What struck me most about your interests is that you like views and cemeteries. In that case, go to Nice as there as a gorgeous cemetery (Jewish, I believe) with a chateau on the top of a huge hill at the end of Avenue de Aragon and it offers spectacular views overlooking the City. If you're fit you can take a long, long walk up or a more direct route: either way the views are great. Plus the city, and (rocky/pebbly) beaches are wonderful. There's also a Matisse Museum, some Roman ruins and I know I saw some Marc Chagall's there as well.

The rest of option 2 is excellent although I would consider a full day and night in Aix en Provence, if not two. Its a beautiful city with great, great food (try Le Chastel over near the courthouse/palace of justice: it's fantastic). There are a couple decent museums there, as well as Paul Cezanne's Atelier, and just further up the hill, the spot from which he painted Mt. St. Victoire some 20+ times. Again, this is a steep climb, but there's also a bus that'll get you up the hill. I suspect the atelier may be closed due to Covid but the "outlook" offers great, great views of the mountain. Marseille is great, especially with its Notre Dame church way up at the top of the hill (again a steep walk, but also reachable by bus), and it, too, offers gorgeous views of the city, the port, and the islands just off the coast.

Good luck

Posted by
9404 posts

I would choose France and change your itinerary a little bit:

Nice - 4-5 nights, with day trips to Monaco and Antibes
St Rémy-de-Provence - 4 nights, with a day trip to Arles and other charming towns
Aix-en-Provence - 3 nights
Lyon - 3 nights, with a day trip to Annecy
Paris - 4 nights (have visited twice, in 2016 and 2017)

Posted by
288 posts

If you choose #1..and I have traveled in those areas a few times.IMHO..Lucca over Pisa..Santa Margherita over Genoa..as Sml has a train station and a lovely ferry port..and take a nite off Milan and add to Como..just a thought! They all sound fun!

Posted by
288 posts

One more thought..Camogli is truly a 5 minute train ride from Santa Margherita..fab hikes and seafood!

Posted by
23178 posts

I agree with all of the above -- it will be very hot and humid. And in Spain you will run into the afternoon siesta where a lot is closed during the heat of the day. Suggest you also take a nap then. All of them have a lot of train travel. You might give a better explanation of why you have chosen these itineraries.

Posted by
7277 posts

Looks like you’ve been to Italy (Rome) once, France (Paris) twice, and Portugal (Lisbon) once. But you’ve not been to Spain? Would that be a reason to pick #3?

If the idea was to truly do a 1-country trip, then #4 hits 2 countries.

Although your #3 itinerary doesn’t include Seville, sangria is a great cooling beverage when it’s hot in Spain. And with 4 days for Madrid, outside of the 2 daytrips you mention, a potential third daytrip, if you’re not already maxed out, would be Segovia.

Posted by
2922 posts

Hi zaraem, because FR is further north, that’s where I would go and spend time in Paris, Provence and the French Riviera.
You can take a direct train from Paris to Avignon (2h 45m) and sleep there. I would then day trip to:
Train:
Arles (20-minutes)
Pont du Gard (30-minutes)
Nîmes (30-minutes)
Orange (30-minutes)
Aix-en-Provence TGV (30-minutes)
Bus:
Uzès (1h)
Les Baux (1h 15m)
St-Rémy (30-minutes)
Ménerbes (2h)
Car:
Côtes du Rhône wine road
Camargue (1h 15m)
Isle-sur-la-Sorgue (1h)

From Avignon you can take a direct train to Nice Ville (3h 30m) and sleep there. In Nice I would walk the Promenade des Anglais and visit the Chagall Museum. As far as day trips:
Train:
Villefranche-sur-Mer (15-minutes)
Monaco-Monte-Carlo (30-minutes)
Antibes (45-minutes)
Bus:
St-Paul-de-Vence (1h 45m)

From Nice you can fly to Paris.

Posted by
26834 posts

Option 3 might be the best choice for haters of hot weather in that it has built-in breaks in a couple of places that are often cool and overcast even in mid-summer: Santiago de Compostela and Bilbao. I believe Option 4 would usually offer more-pleasant weather than Options 1 and 2. If you want to take a look at the actual, day-by-day, historical temperatures in places you are considering, you will find them at timeanddate.com. You should review data for at least the last three years; five would be better.

The area around Madrid is typically very hot in the summer, and Zaragoza is roughly the same. You could shift a few additional days to the Basque Country and Galicia and make Option 3 less risky from the heat perspective.

I haven't been to El Escorial; it simply hasn't sounded as interesting to me as Segovia, Salamanca or Cuenca. However, a day-trip to Cuenca needs to be planned early enough to allow purchase of an AVE ticket at the Promo fare; otherwise, it will be quite a costly day. The other options are much less expensive. Alcala de Henares is another easy day-trip.

In case you are not aware, there are Gaudi buildings in Leon and Astorga (day-trippable from Leon). I think Barcelona's architecture is considerably more interesting than Madrid's. There are nice side-trips to be made from Barcelona (including Girona), but it's true that the full suite of options around Madrid is difficult to top.

You could substantially reduce the average temperature you experience with Option 1 by dropping Rome and spending time in the Dolomites. I'd position that stop around the middle of the trip; I think you'll be ready for a break from the heat by then.

I used Normandy and Brittany as my weather escapes on two summer trips to France, but they're on the opposite end of the country from the Riviera and Provence.

Posted by
2922 posts

zaraem, I calculated the average temperature for Paris using the date and time website acraven recommended going back five years. I used the dates Jul 25 through Jul 31 for Paris which came out to 71 degrees. For Avalon I used the dates Aug 1 through Aug 7 and came up with 74 degrees. The French Riviera using dates Aug 8 through Aug 14 which was 77 degrees.
I also did this for Madrid but was unable to retrieve data from 2016 through 2019. However, the average temperature for the last week in Jul for 2020 was 102 degrees. I used the dates Jul 29 through Jul 31 for Santiago de Compostela and the average is 71 degrees.

Posted by
1321 posts

Yikes … none of the above. Way too hot to be in southern France or Spain in July/August. If it has to be July/august pick Northern Italy … fly into Venice and out of Milan. Visit the Dolomites and one of the Lakes