Trying to accommodate a teen's destination request

Your preposed itinerary is tight enough and Venice is too far out of the way. For this trip, using a rental car is probably more trouble than it's worth, as the destinations you listed are all easily accessable by train or bus. I couldn't say which option is cheaper, though.

Venice is definitely worth visiting. A couple of nights there is sufficient. But Italy is also very hot, crowded, and expensive in summer. Not sure it's worth the journey for a couple of nights.

If you want some romantic towns with canals that are closer to your core travel area, look into lovely Bruges, or maybe Amsterdam.

Prague is lovely. Munich and the RR towns are nice. I think you might be wise though to drop the Ludwig castle stuff. These are in part Versailles knock-offs, so you're sort of duplicating what you see there. If you want to see some real medieval castles - like 800-1000 years old instead of 130 - check out the Rhineland castles near Frankfurt instead:

www.burg-eltz.de

www.marksburg.de

www.burg-cochem.de/e_frame.html

Thank you for the quick reply. We will definitely be seeing the Rhineland castles. My parents are living in Frankfurt for the next year and already have that one and Prague on our list of "must sees". My niece has been a huge admirer of Ludwig's castles. That is why we were planning to head that direction. Other than the castles and Dachau, would we miss much by skipping Munich and heading another direction? I planned 3 days around Frankfurt, 2 in Prague, and 4 in Paris. Any suggestions for lengthening a stay or added something else for the other 7 days?

Hello Coni Jo. If you travel in Germany and Chek Republic and France, that is enough countries to travel in, in 16 days. Travel in trains, because you will travel long distances. Trains go to every town in Germany that you want to go to.

Ask your daughter why she would like to see Venice,what would she like to do there & how she would feel if you didn't go there.

Finding out the answers may help you with your decision. Ask if she has any suggestions for places in the other countries you are going to, that would interest her, letting her know that Venice may have to wait til the next trip.

This past summer we travelled with our daughters (12+14)for 5 weeks.The younger one wanted to see Venice(setting for a book she read). It was not practical with our itinerary, so we asked her for other suggestions. She suggested sleeping in a Castle (hmm, sounds like another book setting) so we did.(Heemskerk, Holland)

She would still like to see Venice, but is happy to wait til the next trip.

No matter what, let the girls bring their I-pods, and have a Great Time.

Coni Jo,

First, given the short time frame of your trip I would skip Venice this time, unless there's some flexibility with your other destinations. As the others have pointed out, in July it will likely be hot and crowded and it's somewhat distant from your other stops.

Although a rental car is a cost effective travel method with four people, it's not the method that I'd recommend in your circumstances. You're covering a fair amount of distance between Frankfurt, Munich, Prague and Paris. IMHO, with a 16-day trip you don't have time to "enjoy the freedom of stopping at towns along the way". You can just as easily "see the countryside" using train, and it will be much less stressful (although probably more expensive). Also, given the limited time, train will be faster (few cars can achieve the same speed as the TGV or other fast trains at 200 kmH+). Given the potential issues with taking a rental into eastern Europe, the usual parking problems and difficulty with driving in some cities, it wouldn't be my choice.

As I understand your post, your Itinerary will be:

• Frankfurt (3 days)

• Prague (2 days)

• Munich (? days - suggest at least 3 for Castles & Dachau)

• Paris (4 days - for Versailles you might want to add a day)

You'll have to allow some time for travel days also, as some legs of your trip are lengthy.

If you planned your rail links very carefully, it might be possible to get to Venice briefly on the way from Munich to Paris (using high speed trains). I'd have to check further though.

Good luck with your planning!

Another comment about the car -- you definitely won't want one in the big towns, and many car rental companies won't allow you to drive their cars into the Czech Republic.

And still go see the castles in Bavaria. Definitely see the ones on the Rhine, too, but it's an essential for a trip to Germany to include as many castles as possible, especially with two 16 year old girls!

Venice is great but really out of the way for your trip. If you must go, catch a plane from Munich for a couple of days.

Personally, I'd either skip France and travel North-South to pick up some of Northern Italy (long trip for 16 days) or save Venice for next trip and keep your plans to France (not quite as long of trip for 16 days).

It's a good idea to get a car. It's cheaper for four people than taking the train. If you get a chance, still take a train for a short ride somewhere in your vacation (i.e. boat from St. Goar to Bacharach and take a local train back). Most Americans don't get to experience well-run train systems.

You might consider a lease. It requires 17 day minimum but costs considerably less than rental and includes full CDW insurance (instead of at an additional cost). Renault and Peugeot are the companies that lease (something about French tax laws on purchasing new v used cars).

Finally, buy either a TomTom 920/930 or a Garmin (unit number ending in 70 - 270, 670, etc.) GPS. Those models include European maps. Buy it here and learn to use it, then pack it for your trip. It will really help, not just for highway directions but for driving straight to hotels or parking lots.

Venice is magical but I personally wouldn't go in the summer, when it's so hot and crowded, and it is quite a bit out of your way. The 16 year olds have the rest of their lives to travel to Europe. They can see Venice some other time.

Definitely check to make sure the rental company will let you drive to Prague before renting a car. When I've rented driving to Eastern Europe was specifically forbidden because of the high rates of theft and vandalism. Your insurance will be void if you go anyway and something happens.

You asked about skipping Munich--I would say yes, you could. It's a nice city but not a knock-your-socks-off tourist destination.

Renting a car isn't a good idea unless you plan to pick up and drop off the car in the same country. last I checked, it is a 1000 euro charge to drop a car in a different country than you pick up. If you dropped prague, and did venice, it may be a bit smoother of a trip. Fankfrut to Munich is 4 hours on train. Munich to Venice is 4 or 5 hours. Venice to paris is basically a night train (9-10 hours maybe). Venice needs 48 hours to enjoy. No more than 3 days in my opinion. I've never been to Prague. Dracu and the castles are all day trips outside of Munich. If you wanted to rent a car for just time in Bavaria, that may be the quickest way to get to see all you want to see. Driving there is pretty easy.

I took a rental car into E Europe, but had to do a lot of research before going.

I found Sixt.com to be cheapest. I used the toll-free phone number and talked with an agent about driving in Hungary, Poland and Slovakia. I recommend your doing that.

When I took my car in Stuttgart I read the contract carefully; it stated I could NOT drive that car in E Europe. Previously I didn't spend a lot of time reading rental contracts. I do now.

I showed the agent my email confirmation stating I had rented a car for E Europe.

He canceled that contract and wrote a new one and found a car. He told me that frequent theft of cars prevented them from renting expensive cars to be driven in those countries.

I therefore recommend to all travelers who plan to travel into E Europe that they read those rental contracts more carefully. I learned a lesson that time.

Hello Coni Jo. Having overnight accomodation at Munich is a practical choice, because if you travel in railroad trains, Munich is en route between Prague and Neuschwanstein (Castle of King Ludwig 2). You could be at Munich 3 nights, to have one whole day in Munich, and a day trip to Dachau from Munich. For your visit to Neuschwanstein, I recommend have overnight accomodation at a hotel in Fussen 2 nights. A day trip from Munich to Neuschwanstein is possible, but that involves riding in a train for 2 hours from Munich to Fussen, and riding in a train for two hours from Fussen to Munich, in one day. You will do much long - distance travel in Europe, thus I think you will want to minimize your train trips. Being at Fussen 2 nights makes for a pleasant whole day in that part of Germany : you could visit the Neuschwanstein castle , and ride in the Tegelburg cable gondola up the mountain. It is also possible to visit the Hohenschwangau castle that day. (All of those places are a quick bus ride from Fussen). Fussen is a beautiful town. I walked from the Fussen train station to a hotel there, pulling my suitcase on its wheels. (Later, I learned to use a travel bag that is of less weight, it does not need wheels). You could travel in trains from Fussen to Paris. I think you can have the best railroad itinerary for that journey (Fussen to Paris) printed onto paper for you, in the Munich train station. If you experience a delay at some place in your trip, causing you to need to eliminate a place from your travel plan, I would eliminate the visit to Dachau. 16 days is plenty of time for having a good trip in Europe. Have fun !

There is lots of great stuff to see by car between the French border and Paris. You might want to plan that part of the trip a little.

I second everyting that has been said about the idea of Venice. Its a truly magical place....not so much in the summer tho'. Plus its a loooong way out of your way. Save it for your Grand Tour of Italy...in the off season.

The mistake most foks make the first couple of times around, is trying to do too much in too short a period of time

I am torn with an issue like this for a couple of reasons. Certainly logical planning makes sense and you should not piece together a complicated, packed, itinerary based on whims. However, to get teens excited about travelling, I think you need to do your best to accomodate their interests, especially if you expect patience when you are indulging yours. When we took our daughter of the same age to Europe with us, we made her come up with both a list of places that sounded interesting, as well as things that interested her. In the end, we adjusted the itinerary to hit some of the places she wanted, I found sites or activities that I thought fit her interests (Van Gogh Museum, Harry Potter sites, Markets in Paris for shopping). If venice were to rank above all else in her lists of interests, I would probably find a way to work it in, even at the expense of one of my priorities...maybe Prague?

I can't believe that 2 16 year old girls would not love Paris. I would spend a couple more days there for sure. And I agree -- save Venice for an Italian trip in a year or 2.

I don'r believe your itenerary is too tight. I would be able to do it.
Venice is worth it. I went there for 1 1/2 and I saw a lot of it.
However you can try to book a cheap flight with skyscanner.com If you do it ahead of time you can fly for $20-30 anywhere in Europe, but you have to find the available departure/destination cities.

Rick has a good discussion of the car vs train question here:
http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/carrental_compare.htm

Rick has a good discussion of the car vs train question here:
http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/carrental_compare.htm

We always drive and have never taken the trains because we like to stop in small villages to get a feel for the country (not just the big cities you see in brochures). You also are not tied to any timetable if you want to alter your itinerary! Although, you will have trouble bringing a car into the Czech Rep. We have used Rick's suggested "Mike's Chaffeur Service" for driving us from Prague to Vienna and Vienna to Budapest in 2007. They are very punctual and we had pleasant transfers. We are using them again this May. They will also pick-up in Munich, Salzburg, etc if those cities work.

Renting a car and driving around Europe is a good way to see small towns and out of the way places. The only problem? Someone has to Drive and someone has to navigate! I would suggest Driving part of the trip, and then taking the train for part. Imagine the two 16 year olds in the back seat of the car for hours and hours. They do tend to get a bit cranky. Even if you use the train for just a small part of the trip, YOU get a break not driving/navigating(maybe even have a nap) the girls can wander around the train (meeting other travellers) and you can experience another part of European travel.