Trip Planning and Guidebooks - The Good The Bad and The Ugly

aarthurperry, great observations. I too used to like Lonely Planet, both the books and the website, but it seems they moved into re-branding themselves for the new generation of travelers. As my millennial nephews remind me about a lot of things, "they aren't trying to sell to you, old man". But then, RS was probably looked on the same way by the Fodors/Frommers generation. I think RS is creeping upwards too, as their core audience gets older.

There used to be a specialized travel bookstore here that had piles of discount books and guides. I remember picking up one of the first editions of an RS guide in the early '80s and thinking how refreshing it was to find something that fit the sweet spot of how I wanted to travel. I wish I still had that book to compare to today's.

I really enjoyed your post and I agree 100% with your conclusion.

I have been disappointed with the newer Lonely Planet guides - I didn't realize that they had been sold. Further, I'd never heard of the Bradt guides until now. Just checked out their website -I may have to give them a try. I agree with your assessment of the Michelin Green Guides - especially if you're not traveling the "RS Trail".

I really miss the old "Access" city guides. I loved the maps and block-by-block format.

I used to include the "Let's Go" guides in my planning, but "Let's Go Europe 2018" is a major disappointment to me. There is only one map - of Europe, showing just the international borders and a handful of rivers. The text has been "dumbed down" almost to the point of uselessness.

I like RS for a strong skeleton of a trip. He covers the highlights simply, clearly, and thoroughly. But once I get my bearings, I use other books for the meat. I have used Lonely Planet for that, Rough Guide, Michelin, Blue Guide.... Often, I go to a BOOKSTORE (gasp) and sit on the floor in the travel section and read through several books to find the one[s] that are formatted in a way I like and address places in a way I like (although I can't tell you what those ways are, just that when I see it I know it)

Have a wonderful trip!

Stan: I think you are correct to a point but this is from LP's own website on it's magazine:

OUR TARGET AUDIENCE
Male/Female:
45%:55%
*
Median Age:
44
*
Median HHI:
$145,000

Now this is for their US version magazine. But the books cant be far behind, but very hard to track. Given that I'd think they would re-think some of their editorial decisions.

aarthurperry, median age 44? Now I feel even worse.

I think it's better to pick the right book(s) for the country you're thinking of, some are better than others...I don't generalize across the board. Plenty of books cover the mainstream tourist spots (largely Rick's audience) well enough and seem interchangeable, but few books do justice to places like Malta or Bulgaria or Cyprus because the market for them is largely niche. I would go as far as to say that you may be better off buying a better guidebook in situ as opposed to one that's produced for an American audience (for example, I have books I bought in Poland that are much better than what I can find here and they cover places most US tourists don't go to).

I still like Lonely Planet (I believe the age demographic - that's my age - but definitely not the household income, as the book caters across the income spectrum) and the Bradt Guide for Malta was excellent. Footprint guides were very helpful for South America.

Lonely Planet is owned by a tobacco billionaire in Tennessee -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonely_Planet

My problem with the Michelin Green Guides is that, because they're owned by a tyre company and geared to car touring, they have barely any information on public transport.

I also totally agree with your assessment aarthurperry. I really prefer the formatting of the Rick Steves Guides. Most of my guidebooks are on my kindle app on my phone. I find it much more straight forward getting to the information I'm looking for with the RS guides than any of the other guides.

I like the Cadogan guides for their in-depth coverage. They tell you about everything of note in each small geographic area. We have seen some remarkable “off-the-beaten-path” sights because they were listed in our Cadogans. They are not easy to find. Mostly I have had to resort to getting them from Amazon.
The last time I bought a Michelin Green, for Sicily, I found it very annoying that places were listed alphabetically. This assumes you know what you want to see. I want the guide book to alert me to sights Idon’t already know about.
I never use guide books for lodgings or restaurants. They are too limited and apt to be out of date. This is where internet sites are invaluable.

I used a Lonely Planet guide to Sicily in 2015. Its coverage was decent, but I missed the explicit instructions provided in the RS books. Don't simply tell me I can get a bus to Monreale from a certain quite large square in Palermo, leaving me to wander around 3 or 4 sides of the square, looking for the right bus stop! And putting a street name in the wrong place on a street with multiple name changes caused me to waste quite a bit of time in one of the interior towns. (That second experience happened before I discovered the joys of following the blue dot on CityMaps2GoPro.)

Folks visiting lots of countries, especially those who like to use multiple guide books but can't carry them all, might like to know that scribd.com ($9/month, free 30-day trial) has electronic versions of what appears to be the full Lonely Planet catalog. I don't like using ebooks for travel planning or when on the road, but it's hard to argue with that price and that (non-existent) weight.

I find the RS guidebooks to be second to none with regard to "getting from Point A to Point B" (i.e., local and regional transportation info, maps, and self-guided walks, museum tours, etc.). However, I have found the restaurant and hotel information to be much less useful and somewhat limited. Typically, I travel with a second guidebook (usually LP, which I have found to be very useful in terms of expanded restaurant and hotel listings). I also like being able to purchase pdf documents of individual chapters if that is all I need, rather than having to purchase the whole book. Case in point was the Emilia-Romagna & San Marino chapter from LP Italy for a day trip to Bologna from Florence last year (Bologna is not covered in the RS Italy guidebook). However, I am sad to hear that they are losing favor with @aarthurperry and others. Info from the internet is playing a larger role both in my trip planning and once in Europe.

I find the RS guides are very good for a first time visitor, but don't go into depth enough for repeat trips. However, I don't rely on guide books alone. I get a lot of good advice, tips, and recommendations here and on the tripadvisor forums, as well as from my well-traveled friends. And lots of internet research.

And I like the DK Eyewitness series. They give me a good sense of place - enough to either seriously consider going there, or omitting it, whether it's a sight or a town. And they include the top sights, some 2nd and even 3rd tier ones - and they differentiate between them, for the most part.

For hotels, I use the internet almost exclusively - the exceptions being personal recommendations here or from friends. I'm not a big foodie, so I usually choose places just by looking at them or getting recommendations from my hotel.

I use almost exclusively Rough Guide, their volumes on different geographic areas in Europe. Supplementing the Rough Guide I use from time to time Michelin Green Guides, especially for Germany and France. The old Let's Go (from 10 years ago) I still read for background information.

I don't use RS books at all, never have. I don't consult Lonely Planet or Fodors.

Excellent synopsis. After your trip, perhaps you will have more observations about how the guides served you on-the-ground.

I have never heard of Bradt before so I ordered Switzerland as we will be there for most of a month this fall.

I have relied on good old Mr. Steves so many times. Readable, believable, and no one does "connections" better, i.e., how to get around without a bloody car. But as noted, Rick does not cover everything, so I read Fodor's or Frommer's or LP with a jaundiced eye, search the interwebs, and sometimes just wing it. That's what we did for a week last fall during an 8-week Grand Tour when we went to two small towns that there was little written about. Enjoyed the cultural immersion and off-the-beaten very much.

When do you travel, Arthur?

First of all to Going234: Yes the BBC did sell it again which definitely has not helped LP's sense of direction (literally and figuratively) they seem to be foundering to me editorially. And their maps, which used to be great are now enough to make one weep with frustration.

Let me clarify something about my post: I have no intention of carrying all of these 14 books with me on this trip. I use them mainly to decide where I am going in the larger sense, as in what countries and in the more detailed sense as in what specific things I want to see. My months long trip to Europe this time is partly to show my good friend Mary about the place as she has never been. The second is for me to get to some of the countries I've always wanted to visit but havnt got around to.

What I will carry on the trip is some of the city guides and I will tear out some chapters and leave most of the Italy book at home.

Thanks for all the replies and kind words.

To Laurel from OR: I plan on posting trip reports here as I go and I will definitely contrast the reality to what one reads in the guidebooks. I have also built a BLOG (which cannot be mentioned here) and will be adding to that frequently as I travel. Since I will be spending considerable time in some rather less traveled places, like a month in Bulgaria, I am hoping to get a bit deeper than the usual trip reports. I have also rented a house in the far south of Puglia, the Salento, near the very tip of the Italian boot heel for a month and am looking forward to writing about that.

I find that almost any well-written guide can be a great resource, as long as you understand its personality. Or if you like (thinking of Arthur's take on Michelin and cars), its biases.

It would be foolish use Let's Go to pick a hotel in Rome, but I would trust its take on where to buy gelato.

Understand the guide's quirks, and you can use it to enrich your trip.

When I travel there is the trip that is in my mind and what I want it to be and it's much more like the Blue Guide of trips, then there is my ACTUAL trip which ends up being more the Lonely Planet version.

The key to finding the right guidebook is finding one that matches that trip in your head while taking into account your finances. This is not that easy to do.

But really if you are spending nearly $30 for a guidebook you deserve better than to be short-changed by bad editing and editorial outlook, lousy writing, poor or non-existing updating and formats that defy the idea of accessibility and ease of use.

I think the RS guides have become so popular because they are really good at what they do. And he has very wisely kept his focus geographically and not tried to branch out to far. Although I do wish he would expand his idea of what constitutes Europe and cover places like Sicily, Sardinia, Ukraine, Albania, etc.

But really if you are spending nearly $30 for a guidebook

I paid $5 for a PDF section of Lonely Planet covering the exact region I was going to in Sicily (southeast). It was a bargain and fit my needs. So the maps weren't perfect...I got better ones off the web anyway. Sometimes perfect is the enemy of the good.

Sometimes perfect is the enemy of the good.

Whoa, can I borrow that, Agnes? That is true on oh so many levels. Wow.

I've never planned for a 5 month trip so I would have no idea how good travel books are for such a long-term journey. How fortunate the OP has the financial means to travel for such a length of time.

My conclusion after reading 14 guidebooks for this trip so far is that
for a more ambitious and complicated trip you need a mix of titles.
For the average American Tourist trip to Europe of two weeks to see
the Major sights RS is the best and you probably don't need more. But
if you want or need to get off the RS Trail you'll need some other
sources. Blue Guide here I come.

The conclusion the OP reached of using many sources is spot on for my European travels which typically last 6 days. I try to travel 2X/per year and can do that fortunately for the time being. Living in NYC makes European travel convenient. I disagree that a RS guide book is all one needs for 2 weeks. No way. It's the compilation of multiple resources for trips lasting 6 days or 6 months which is the ideal means of planning a trip to places new to me.

I used Let's Go to find the places I stayed at in Berlin and Strasbourg, haven't tried Rome yet. Mostly I rely on Rough Guide for hotel and Pension recommendations.

Thrift shops and libraries are great places to pick up guidebooks. True, the info is outdated, but you can still get a sense of highlights or places of interest. I then follow up with Internet research for places I learn about from those guidebooks.

Thrift shops and libraries are great places to pick up guidebooks.
True, the info is outdated, but you can still get a sense of
highlights or places of interest. I then follow up with Internet
research for places I learn about from those guidebooks.

This is an excellent idea.

I can understand the motivation for purchasing or copying out of date guidebooks but I have to say that I agree with RS in his philosophy on this one.

If you are spending $5000 on a trip (air fare and all as example) then a $24.95 guidebook is only .00499% of your trip cost. Why on earth skimp on that? Things change so rapidly and great new things, new routes, new venues and events as well as just having the overall up to date perspective I think is well worth it.

In terms of buying .pdf copies of certain sections of guidebooks I also understand the utility in this. But with the entire book before you to read and absorb and learn about places outside of your preconceived ideas of where you want to go may propel you to seek out other places you may not have considered and find entirely wonderful.

The internet is a great tool especially in many ways for travel. But as you often read here people often get bogged down in the gigantic mass of information available that is uncurated and indiscriminate leaving them feel more helpless than when they started. I think it takes smart use of all the resources for a good trip.

Also anyone who has relied on Intellectual Property royalties for income can tell you they don't appreciate their work being copied (of course they understand this happens especially at libraries and we all value libraries so look the other way)

For anyone interested in "another take" on travel guidebooks, this website by a former guidebook author may be of interest ...

http://www.reidsguides.com/t_gi/t_gi_guidebooks.html

To get the general idea, conceptually, on the way one can plan a trip, deciding where to go, etc, not only thrift shops and used book stores are a source for buying guides but also public library sales. In SF these sales take place bi-annually, one in Sept, the other in March/early April. Tons of travel literature to suit one's taste. Totally understandable if you don't want to buy a brand new guide at its current price. These are also at the public library.

Yes and they are a great way to support your local library. Many libraries also accept books for their sales.

Just returned from a used-book sale at my neighborhood library. Scored some useful European guidebooks, but not many that will help on this year's trip to central/eastern Europe. Thank heavens for Amazon's used-book offerings. (No, I'm not going to buy ten brand new guidebooks for one trip, especially when some of them are about two years old at this point.)

Alas, I have no willpower where books are concerned, so I also came home with at least 2 dozen other books. It's hard to find time to read when you're busy planning a trip and hanging out on this forum.

What a great thread topic!

"Perfect is the enemy of the good' is a term I've often heard in politics. You agree with candidate A on 9/10 issues, but the 10th issue causes you hesitation to support them. I think the same logic can be applied to guidebooks. Different people want different things out of a guide book and thus the pursuit of the perfect one usually ends in frustration.

My takes:
Rick Steves is my go to guidebook right now for any new place. He really does provide some great nuts and bolts advice that I find is left out of other guidebooks that are probably written by well experienced travelers: How to get to and from the airport and what's the best ways. Tipping customs. Public transit etiquette. Unique restaurant/bar/cafe tips and so much more. I begged a couple of friends to read Europe Through The Back door before their first trip and perhaps a couple of city specific guides before their first trip to Europe. Nope! They wanted to 'wing it' I actually got a bit ill seeing how far away one of their hotels was from the city and I knew how much time they'd be wasting on a 3 day visit just in transit..

However, I also see Rick as a good friend that I often have strong disagreements with. I'll never be convinced that it makes any sense to travel to Bath after a long flight to Heathrow. In fact, I don't think Bath is an essential part of a first trip to the UK. There are also too many places omitted, in particular in his Spain guide as well as the Great Britain guide. So, they need to be supplemented unless you're willing to follow his suggestions only, which isn't the worst idea for someone who doesn't want to spend a lot of time planning.

I agree Lonely Planet has gotten way too hip for their Europe guides. Way too much coverage of ultra trendy coffeehouses and vegan restaurants . Even if those are your scene, those types of places tend to come and go very quickly and are much better covered online. However, Lonely Planet has been a staple for so long that I'm hesitant to completely dismiss them. The Australia guide (November 2011) was absolutely excellent. I've also armchair traveled to many obscure places from reading their guides from all over the world, even though I doubt i'll ever be hitting up Guinea-Bissau on my travels.

I absolutely love DK Eyewitness for their photographs. The wonderful photos of tourist attractions and general cityscapes makes them excellent for deciding where to go as well as serving as a souvenir. I know they're not updated frequently, but that's fine for what I use them for.

I haven't read a Fodors in a long time. They used to be duller than a textbook and I always felt they tended to focus on high end hotels and restaurants.

What I look for in a guidebook is mainly general information about a city. Breaking down a city into neighborhoods is a good thing because that's not likely to change much over time. General information about a neighborhood is also useful. It's helpful to know that one area is business oriented and most restaurants are closed on weekends while another area is known for Indian restaurants. I find information like that to be far more useful than page after page of specific restaurant listings since restaurants worldwide tend to open, close, change owners, or revamp their menus.

The same goes for hotel information. I find it more useful to have the guidebook point out that one neighborhood has a lot of budget hotels or that the central business district hotels can often be had for a very low price over weekends and holidays rather than a long list of hotels.

I also like a lot of sightseeing information, especially pointing out lesser known attractions. That helps me plan how many days to allocate to a city. I also find it useful to have pointers if the free days are mobbed or if particular times of the years sees a lot of school groups.

OP.... very jealous of a month in Bulgaria. We spent 10 days on an organized tour. I would go back in a minute. Do not miss Veliko Tarnovo... Charming and so interesting!

I agree on many of your opinions. RS books are very good, but it seems like he's steering the reader to his way of experiencing Europe. There are some very definite omissions of areas. We also look at the recs on lodging very critically, because I don't want to be housed with a bunch of RS groupies at times.

I am giving the Rough Guides a definite thumbs up, and possibly a gold medal (Olympics... gotta love it) to the RG of Romania for great knowledge of sights. Sorry didn't use it for lodging or food.

Might I add using the internet now is extraordinary useful. I love seeing Youtube videos of talented travelers (be advised there are many youtubers that just want their mugs on the video), But I have found some very helpful videos and some great documentaries of history, etc. on Youtube. (including most of RS segments.

To: ACRAVEN, DALE AND TGREEN

What great posts. Thanks for adding to the conversation. I enjoyed reading them. And good points about Rough Guides. They used to be aimed at the ultra cheapo see-the-world-on-50¢ per day travel crowd. ( a la Lonely Planet in the early days) But I looked at one the other day in Barnes and Noble and was impressed. they have changed their focus a bit for the positive I think. Although I don't think their format is as easy to read as some. I prefer the columnar format. Maybe I will get a few to compare to what I have now.

In fact it was looking at that book that gave me the idea for this thread.

I'm a firm believer before anyone plunks down money to purchase a guidebook, they should first visit their local library to borrow some guides (even if they aren't the current year) to see which format is preferred. I also firmly believe you cannot expect to rely on just one guide to provide in-depth coverage of every single area in a country a tourist may want to visit. The "Why doesn't Rick Steves cover (insert town/city/region) in his guidebooks?" question has been voiced ad nauseam on this forum. The guy writes books very clearly targeted at a certain demographic and writes about the main highlights along with some worthwhile secondary sightseeing ops for first time visitors. He gives suggestions on how to craft an itinerary based on the amount of time they have (e.g., 1 day, 3 days, 5 days, a week) that incorporate the major "must see" spots and some secondary ones depending on how much time you are there.

Where I am not a fan of Rick's guides are his recommendations for lodging and meals. His lodging, while always basic, clean, well-located and having friendly hosts, is consistently overrun with North Americans who won't book any other lodging that's not been vetted by Rick. If your goal is to have breakfast in a room full of North Americans, then his lodging recommendations will help you meet that goal. I feel like I've found far nicer places just using Booking.com to see the photos taken by travelers (these paint a more realistic picture than those professional photos used on the hotel websites) and also to read the reviews (you can't leave a review unless you book and pay directly through the site). While there may be a few North Americans, the other guests tend to be Europeans traveling on holiday or business. I'm also not a fan of many of Rick's recommendations for dining. The guy is a terrific businessman and a great writer, but he is far from being a foodie. Again, I do my homework ahead of time and find a few local dining spots that really interest me at various price points. There are plenty of people who don't consider dining an integral part of their time in Europe, so Rick's choices are probably more than adequate for those readers.

Despite these 2 minor beefs, I still personally think his books are great for first timers who will unlikely stray far off the beaten path and who usually only spend a handful of nights in these places anyways. Again, any areas not covered in his books are almost always covered in another guide or info is readily available with a few Google searches online.

I did a lot of guidebook "test runs" at the library in the months leading up to my taking a year off to travel around the world and I discovered that for areas not covered by Rick Steves, I love the Rough Guide series. I can tell you personally that if Rough Guide used to target only extreme budget backpackers, then they did that a long time ago as my trip around the world was 11 years ago and what I loved about Rough Guide back then (and now) was they make an equal amount of suggestions for those who want to backpack on a tight budget as well as those who are willing to plunk down a platinum Visa and stay or eat someplace a little more luxurious. There were plenty of times I spent less than $40 a day (including lodging) on the advice of Rough Guide during that year and there were also times I just wanted to take a break from sleeping in a hostel dorm and wanted my own hotel room and to splurge on a nice sit down dinner or have decent cocktails at a bar not full of college kids. Rough Guide never steered me wrong that year.

I've always felt Lonely Planet is just way too much information-much of it "meh". I visually hate DK Eyewitness though many love them. Fodors is OK but skews towards those traveling with more disposable income who don't stray far from the well-beaten tourist path. Lately, I've also been really liking National Geographic guidebooks.

Ciedleh: you make some very good points. Just to clarify the Rough Guides I was harking back to were those of the mid/late 1980's.

And as for Mr. Steves, who I have said before I like and admire, Yes your are 100% correct that he is writing to a specific demographic and type of traveler. But I do think it is a fair criticism to say that he has some glaring omissions. One of the most puzzling is leaving out Sicily, Sardinia and Puglia in the Italy guidebook. In fact the main map of Italy in his Italy guide is chopped off just below Paestum as if the entire southern part of the country doesn't exist.

To his credit he does go to lengths to explain that his guides are "personal" and a reflection of what He considers to be the highlights.
I would however like to read his take on those places and have a guide that covered all of the country.

The quality of guidebooks has declined because there is much less money in the business than there used to be. I recall an article that stated that fees paid to guidebook writers declined 40% from the late '90s to the late 2000s. Quite likely they have declined further since.

I loved my Rough Guide to Germany 2004 edition when I was stationed there from '05-'08. But the editions after that one were not nearly as well written, and had 200 pages less of text.

The book "Do Travel Writers Go to Hell?" was eye opening- written by a guy who was hired to write Lonely Planet's guide to northern Brazil, it reveals that it's basically physically and financially impossible for these writers to thoroughly survey the restaurant and hotel scene in a large region with the time and funds allotted, and the writers often resort to kickbacks and comps from business owners.

Arthur: Get what you are saying, but the reality is Rick is only going to write a guide based on the average amount of time his key demographic is likely to spend exploring Italy. For the majority of North Americans, they only get about 2 to 3 weeks of vacation per year. And many only visit Europe for 7 to 10 days. I have yet to meet a first time traveler to Italy that wants to get much past Rome/Florence/Venice unless it's to some other really major tourist hot spot like the Amalfi Coast, Cinque Terre, etc.

I do think you can still find what you are looking for - it's just not going to be in a printed guidebook. Rick does have a lot of podcasts available online and he's discussed areas like Sicily and Puglia. So if you want to get his take on those, just search online and you might be able to stumble across some of his past podcasts on these specific areas that interest you.

I understand completely and you are right for sure. I guess what I am saying is that Rick's conception of his demographic is a bit dated. With new technology and a changing workforce the old paradigms have shifted and he hasn't kept pace. He is brilliant and a great businessman but I think he's behind the curve on this.

My post wasn't really about MY trip (I am not going to Sicily or Sardinia) but I looked at doing so and gave it serious consideration but this time I was more interested in some other places he doesn't cover, Puglia for example and the Salento. Places that are gaining in popularity fast but still are quiet by the standards of most of Italy.

In one sense it would be smart for him to open up "new" areas and put the Cinque Terre on the back burner.

My take:

I used to use a combination of Rough Guide, Lonely Planet and Rick Steves. Rough Guide, Lonely Planet and (once upon a time) Rick Steves seemed to focus on traveling on a pretty tight budget and had lots of money saving advice. Rough Guide and Lonely Planet still seem to focus on budget travelers. I agree with the criticism about Lonely Planet, it has changed in a way that is more party and less travel (which may match their target audience). My biggest gripe with Rick Steves is the information is limited to a very specific itinerary. The books become paper-weights when you get off those itineraries. I've also found RS guides have a different concept of a "splurge" today than what they had two decades ago. What was a splurge then is a normal recommendation today (also probably matches an older, more affluent, target audience). There have been times when RS guides are invaluable, as when I arrived in Granada without reservations for the Alhambra, but just as many times when an RS guide is completely silent on a significant part of my itinerary (two-thirds or more of Italy).

I've used Michelin Green Guide a lot. My gripe there is why can't I get a Kindle version so I don't have to carry a book? It's basic information about everywhere. Not nearly as detailed or interesting as Rick Steves but much more complete.

I've never been fond of Fodor's. Not only is the information limited, it's aimed at much higher budgets than mine. I've also found information repeatedly in Fodor's guides that I knew was incorrect, to the point that I wouldn't rely on their information.

I really like DK guides for my bookshelf. The volume of photos is great for pre-planning a trip and equally great to have at home when travel comes up in conversation. The weight of the books keep them far from my pack list, however; they stay on my bookshelf at home.