Traveling through Europe with my son....help with itinerary

Here is a map of current night trains in Europe that might be useful when planning: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Map_night_trains_in_europe.png (Note that there will be a few changes in 2020). Berlin is full of sights and you can easily spend a fortnight there, so try to make a plan of what you want to see.

Have you done an overnight train? My husband and used them like you are in our twenties. You don’t sleep that much. I wouldn’t want to do too many of them on one trip.

You can see catacombs in Rome and Paris as you already see that Romanian does not fit your plan.

Your only logical overnight train options are Venice to Vienna and Vienna to Berlin.

Since Vienna is not in your plans and you only have 10 days, you really don't need a Global Pass; if you can get your money back.

You could do all you must sees like this
Fly into Rome
Rome 3 nights
Train to Venice
Venice 2 nights
Fly to Berlin
Berlin 2 nights
Train or Fly to Paris
Paris 3 nights

You have 11 nights. Even if you spend several of them on trains, you will surely want somewhere to "park" when you arrive in a city, take a shower, etc.

You mention Auschwitz, but that is near Krakow, in Poland, nowhere near the other places on your must-see list.

What I would suggest is you take a map and a list of the 11 dates you will be sleeping somewhere in Europe and figure out where that will be. For example:

• 5/14 Rome
• 5/15 Rome
• 5/16 night train to Venice (I don't know if such a train exists; only using this as an example)
• .
• .
• .
• 5/23 Paris

Finish it out and see how it works. Then get on with fine-tuning it.

My sense if you will discover that there isn't time for everything on your must-see list, but the value of this exercise is it will be your discovery, not some other people on this forum telling you.

Good luck!

Your "must see" list is spread out, and covers over 3100 KM of road/train. That is a lot to see in 11 days. I would either pick doing one of the following:

1) Rome, Venice, Paris
2) Berlin/Poland

Doing all 5 would be a lot of work for little time in each city/area.

There is no night train to Venice.

Macabre would definitely fit the description of the H. H. Geiger museum in Gruyere Switzerland.

Wish you'd have gotten on here for advice prior to booking your flights into Rome and out of Paris. You're taking on too many places that are not close to each other for an 11 day trip. I'm only good on a train for maybe 3 hours. Night trains are getting less and less frequent as they're just not very popular due to lack of sleeping. Very few people are using Eurail passes any longer. With the advent of budget airlines, you can fly to and from anywhere in Europe usually for less than $100.

The catacombs in Paris, while not having any furniture made of bones, might satisfy his desire for macabre. My Fiance and I visited them a few years ago and "enjoyed" it. I will say that there is a somewhat long circular staircase out that as far as I know is the only exit. If mobility or climbing is a concern.

Another possibility, also in Paris, is Musée Dupuytren, which had a number of medical oddities that he might find interesting. .

Here is the whirlwind itinerary we were considering:
Rome 5/13 (arrival), 5/14, departing morning of 5/15 for Venice (4 hours by train)
5/15, 5/16 Venice take overnight train to Vienna (7-1/2 hours)
5/17 Vienna overnight train to Oswiecim (8 hours)
5/18 Oswiecim, train to Krakow (2 hours) stay overnight in Krakow on 5/18
5/19 take overnight train to Berlin (10 hours)
5/20, 5/21 Berlin overnight train to Paris (12 hours)
5/22, 5/23 Paris, depart Paris 5/24

What do you think? We absolutely must include Oswiecim (Auschwitz) in some way. What changes would you make to this itinerary, if any, with that in mind. Stay more time in one city over another or?

Thanks!

There is no overnight train to Paris, but you can take an overnight train to e.g. Basel and a TGV to Paris from there.

There is no night train to Venice.

Are you sure about that?

Night trains are getting less and less frequent as they're just not
very popular due to lack of sleeping.

Au contraire, there have been an increase in demand for night trains in the last couple of years.

I agree with the others. You have 11 nights.
Depending on flight times and jet lag, your arrival and departure days are partial or fully unusable. So that is 10 full days.
That is at most 4 places (3 + 2 + 2 + 3 nights).

Our must see list includes Berlin, Rome, Venice, Paris and Auschwitz (Poland)

Those are all spread out, you are jumping all over Europe. Night trains are limited. As you can see from Badger's map, they don't cover all the trips you want.
For places that far apart a cheap air ticket may be better.
You say "we have global train passes". To have bought that before deciding on a route may not have been the best purchase. Rail passes only allow you to get on a train and sit in a seat. They do not provide a bunk on night trains, that costs extra.
And night trains do not have showers. You need to spend at least every other night in a hotel.

No you need to look up some actual train times. You can do this on the DB (German railways) website: https://www.bahn.com/en/view/index.shtml
Be sure to use the correct spelling for place names: Praha (Prague), Roma, Venezia, Oświęcim (Auschwitz) etc.

And night trains do not have showers.

Many have. But whether you have access to them or not depends on your ticket.

Here is the whirlwind itinerary we were considering:
Rome 5/13 (arrival), 5/14, departing morning of 5/15 for Venice (4 hours by train)
5/15, 5/16 Venice take overnight train to Vienna (7-1/2 hours)
5/17 Vienna overnight train to Oswiecim (8 hours)
5/18 Oswiecim, train to Krakow (2 hours) stay overnight in Krakow on 5/18
5/19 take overnight train to Berlin (10 hours)
5/20, 5/21 Berlin overnight train to Paris (12 hours)
5/22, 5/23 Paris, depart Paris 5/24 What do you think?

This is pure misery. You won't be able to stay awake.
To quote Rick "Never sacrifice sleep, nutrition, safety, or cleanliness in the name of budget."
You might cut Berlin out or fly to Paris.

My God, that's almost 48 hrs just on the train itself, in only a week and a half, that takes a huge bite out of your already very limited sightseeing time...

I understand that that there may not be direct overnight trains, but based on Eurail at most there are 2 stops on any of the overnight trains I proposed. Honestly, if our proposed itinerary gets side tracked along the way, we are okay with that. As for the trains not having showers, we will be in a hotel 5/13, 5/14, 5/15, 5/18, 5/20, 5/22, 5/23. We will only be working with less than desirable sleep on a train 4 nights with only 2 of those nights being back to back, Venice to Vienna/Vienna to Oswiecim.

I guess the bigger question is where we are staying over. For example should we stay overnight in Venice or Vienna? Going from Berlin to Paris departing Berlin 5/21 arriving Paris 5/22 would it make more sense to leave Berlin the afternoon of 5/21, stop somewhere in between Berlin and Paris and stay the night. Leaving mid-day on 5/22 for Paris arriving Paris early evening 5/22. If so, where would you stop? Going that route, would eliminate one of the overnight trains completely. Thoughts?

My thoughts are that you are trying to see too much in too little time. With five must see-sites, you need more time than you have planned. My advice is to skip Venice and Auschwitz and do Rome-Vienna-Berlin-Paris. Then you'd have a slightly less rushed plan that might be a bit more enjoyable. And both Rome-Vienna and Vienna-Berlin can be done with direct night trains.

I would say since Vienna is not even on your initial list, I would not spend the night there. I love Vienna, don't get me wrong, I'm just looking at your priorities and limited time. I loved walking around Venice late evenings and early mornings before the tourist hordes were out in force, so I think an overnight there is valuable. It's not macabre, but an unusual thing to do there is to take a paddling lesson. We greatly enjoyed it.

In Paris, your son may like the Catacombs, the Sewer tour and/or Pere Lachaise cemetery.

Are you putting you bags in a train station locker while you're walking around on days around your travel, or are you sightseeing with your pack on? If you're carrying your packs all day, I hope they are really small and, I would suggest double checking where you can check your bag and where you can't. Most sites now are quite strict and not all have great facilities for checking bags.

I slept on trains like that in my 20s - we didn't even book couchettes most of the time, never reserved seats, and it was a jungle out there finding a place to sleep on a crowded train. While I still camp in the woods, I don't do overnight trains in Europe any more because I don't sleep and don't enjoy the following day. My old advice would have been sleep with your head on your bag, so that you don't wake up and find it gone, and be double sure that your travel docs and money are in a secure moneybelt under your clothes. Be sure you have reservations for a seat or couchette, because sitting on the floor overnight on a train will make this even more difficult. Reservations will cost extra, but I would think they will be worth it.

You say Eurail gives the stops but they don't run any trains. For correct details use the DBahn as suggested by Rick Steves on this website.

For example the direct train from Vienna to Auschwitz makes 5 stops at stations for for people joining or leaving, at

Breclav dep 23:50

Ostrava hl.n. dep 01:32

Bohumin dep 03:18

Zebrzydowice dep 03:39

Czechowice-Dziedzice dep 04:07

and arrives at Oswiecim arr 04:48. What will you do at 5am at a closed or empty station until the world wakes up?

The journey from Krakow to Berlin means leaving Krakow at 19:38 and changing in Warsaw for only 14 minutes at 10:30pm and then arriving at Kostrzyn at 5am where you hang about for an hour (after the overnight train makes 11 stops) before finally arriving at Berlin (13 more stops, going into the rush hour) at 7:30.

You make your own choice for you and your lad, but if he doesn't thank you I wanted you to know ahead of time of the reality.

I just did an overnight train ride in the USA. While Amtrak isn’t a European train, I can’t imagine it would be much more comfortable in Europe. I love old films with long train journeys, but that era is over.

What is the purpose of this trip? What are your goals?
What do you want to see and do during the hours you are off a train?
If you love trains and your goal is to ride trains, this works.
If not, I hope afterwards you don’t feel like this wasted your time and money.

Bets has the key point. Determine what you want out of this trip and go for it. Let me say that I would not (maybe could not) do this (even though I actually like overnight trains). However that doesn’t mean it’s the wrong approach for you and your son. I just finished a trip with friends that was not at all the kind of travel I prefer - too fast, too many key sites skimmed over, too short, etc. However it was an amazing trip that we will remember forever. It was more than just the country we visited. Will I plan my next travel the same way? No. But was it worthwhile? Absolutely. So make memories with your son while you can and enjoy what I hope you are planning together.

As far as the practicalities, those are a matter of research and I think you have the tools. Check train times, where you actually have to change trains, make reservations, and find out how long it takes you to see what you decide on in the locations you choose and how to get to those sights. If there is something you can’t find out about a particular leg of the trip, come back and ask that question. And have a great trip!

On second thought you should probably skip Vienna as well, take the night train from Rome to Munich and get a connecting ICE to Berlin there.

Hello ejsmom01. I think your "whirlwind" itinerary is crazy. You said you will fly to Rome, and fly from Paris. Therefore, I recommend that you travel in a total of two countries : ITALY and FRANCE. Fly from an airport of Milan (in Italy) to an airport of Paris. And I recommend : no overnight train rides. I suggest that you try to return your Global train passes for a refund.

Do take night trains! Travelling while sleeping is very time efficient and something you should really consider when you have limited time.

You have 11 days in Europe to see Berlin, Rome, Venice, Paris and Auschwitz.
I have been to all those places, most of them more than once. Two days in Rome is ridiculous, you can't do justice to that city in two days.

I suggest that you eliminate one or even two of those places and save some travel time. Plan on coming back to Europe.

I suggest doing Berlin and Poland on another trip. If you go to Auschwitz, you should spend some time in Crakow and Warsaw as well.