Traveling in Sept to Amsterdam, Germany, and Itlay

Can you provide a bit more information???? How much time do you have? What are your interests? Are you outdoorsy, love or hate museums?????

Well we are going for a whole month. For amsterdam we are only staying for about 5 days and the rest of time we split evenly for germany and italy. Specifially in that order Amsterdam,Germany,and Italy. And yes we do like museums, we just want to experience the european culture.

"we just want to experience the european culture"

In that case, stay away from the Middle Rhine. (Little known fact: Bacharach and St. Goar are suburbs of Edmonds, Wash.)

I've found that a couple of places that remain relatively unaffected by American tourism, are Swaben (particularly the Neckar valley south of Stuttgart), and the Oberallgäu (Iller valley around Oberstdorf). However, according to the principle that people learn and remember languages that they need, don't expect people in these areas to speak English.

Is this a private fight, or can anyone join in?
- Irish saying

Here's my 2 cents. You can read all of ours and hopefully glean something that appeals to you.

I'll start the Amsterdam fight by saying A'dam is not the Venice of the North. It should be called the Jamaica of the North. Now that you've figured out I'm not a fan, here's my take. Spend one or two days unless you are really into illicit drugs or sex (in which case you may spend your entire vacation there staring at a coffee house wall).

The museums are okay but don't compare favorably with museums you will see later in your trip. No sense burning yourself out on museums before you get to the good stuff.

Check out this site. http://www.eatndrink.com/ Click at the top where it says Best Walks of Europe (Free), the Amsterdam walks are a very good reference.

I liked the canal tour by boat. After that and a walk or two, I'm ready to go to nicer Netherlands or German places.

I'll disagree somewhat on the middle Rhine. There are certainly sites worth seeing. The train and/or KD cruise boats are more convenient here than most places in Germany. I love Rheinfels castle ruins. I also really like Berg Stahleck hostel (a castle turned into a hostel), it's always busy but worth a stay.

I agree to the extent that 9 of 10 people you see will be Americans carrying a RS Guidebook.

Other places I really like are Koln and Bonn and the Mosel River down to Trier (great Roman ruins, can stop at Moselkern for Berg Eltz hike and castle).

Munich is one of my favorite cities. Check out the main square in town, English Gardens, the Residenz, the Alte and Neue Pinokotek (both really nice art galleries) or Moderne if you're into that.

Ludwig's castles and Rhotenburg are very touristy but worth doing. On the Romantic Road, I'm more a fan of Wurzburg or Dinkelsbuhl (still touristy but not to the same extent).

Berlin is great but a long way to the North. If you decide to do a Northern swing, go up through Hamburg, visit Kiel and Schlesswig then down to Berlin. I don't recommend it as part of this trip because it's too much travel time.

Berchtesgaden is also touristy but worth the visit if you are so inclined (get it? Inclined? Mountains? Thank God my wife gets me!).

How are you traveling? Going for a month, it's worth it to consider leasing a car. You can lease through Renault or Peugeot. It's a much better deal than renting a car. Depending on your plans it may be cheaper than training and planing.

After Munich you should definitely visit Salzburg. Along with Venice, Salzburg is one of the most beautiful cities you will ever see. In Salzburg, everything you want to see is within walking distance from old town.

On the middle Rhine I liked Braubach and the Marksburg. The Marksburg is authentic; it was never destroyed and rebuilt, unlike the other Rhein castles (well Rheinfels was never rebuilt). Braubach seemed less touristy to me. I asked the owner of Weinhaus-Wieghardt (in German) if she spoke English and if she ever had English-speaking guests. (I wanted to know if I could recommend them.) She replied that she did speak English and she had just had English speaking guests the week before - but she said it in German. That would never have happened in St. Goar.

Dont listen to Lee, He is always angry about something. The Rhine is half the reason for going to Germany. This is where all the castles are, great wine on the Rhine and Mosel. Look up in Ricks book or other places. It is beautiful and deserves at least 2 days. If you find you dont like it move on but you would be sorry if you did not visit this region.

Paul, I'm not angry about anything. I am just explaining that the middle Rhine is not what you would call a "European cultural" experience. I found it to be filled with American tourists (many of them carrying Rick's guidebooks), and virtually every German working there spoke English. I wouldn't call that a European culture. IF a European cultural experience is what you really want, go somewhere other than to the middle Rhine.

On the other hand, the Middle Rhine does have a few (but certainly not all) of the castles in Germany, three of which are authentic and can be visited, and some great wines. If you don't mind the Epcot-like venue, go there.

Italy, you will want to visit Venice. Plan at least one night (preferably two or more) and use the Vaporetto to explore the neighboring islands. Walk around in the evening when the tourist trade has slowed and the canals are quiet. Expect to eat late dinners all over Italy, nothing is open early so don't skip lunch. If you do drive, follow Rick's advice about parking on the mainland and taking the train in. You will save time, hassle and a lot of euros. Also, if you lease, get the GPS, believe me you will want it in Italy.

Florence, I'm not a big fan of Florence either. There are a lot of must sees but it's crowded, expensive and generally a hassle (you can't drive your car near the city center without a huge fine). Make reservations for the Uffizi and Academia so you get the important stuff in, Climb the dome in the Duomo, escape to Piazza Michealangelo for a good view and less touristy environment.

Pisa, good for an hour or so stop to see the tower and take the obligatory picture. Also see the Duomo and Baptistry as they are all in the same spot and worth seeing.

Tuscany, there are a zillion great towns all with their own charm. Each contributor has their favorites and also rans. My favorites are San Gimignano (very medieval but also very touristy) and Orvieto (really in Umbria). My also ran is Lucca, nice wall turned into park but otherwise not special (this will start an argument as many people really like it).

Cinque Terra is really nice but is far from undiscovered. Expect to see lots of Rick Steves guidebook toting tourists here too. We really loved CT in October, I'm not sure we would have felt the same with summer crowds.

Try to get to Sienna and Assisi. I'm forgetting a bunch of great places.

I also really liked Verona (great medieval and Roman history). Lake Como and the Dolomites are worth time, as you start laying this out you will wish for two months.

I would end up in Rome. Ostia Antica is a good visit as an alternative to going South to Naples and Pompeii. Amalfi Coast, Sorrento and Capri are all nice places but you will be completely out of time before you even start to consider these. In Rome, you can follow Rick's guided walks to get oriented then focus on your favorites for the time you have available.

Everything so far is advice about how to see beautiful places with rich history.

To really enjoy yourself, ditch any guidebook advice on where to eat. Use my foolproof technique for good eating, ask a local for a recommendation.

I eat a lot of my meals as picnics purchased at a grocery store.

When we go out, we ask a nice looking local where their favorite place is. We always add, "nothing fancy" because people often assume Americans want fancy restaurants. If we're starving and pick a place without a recommendation we are usually disappointed. Guidebook restaurants are ruined the second they are in print.

By using this advice you will save money, eat the best possible food and meet real people. For alcoholic drinks at a restaurant, order the local brew in Netherlands and Germany. You will get great beer; towns are always proud of their local brew and are happy to see tourists appreciate it. On the Rhine or Mosel, order a local wine.

In Italy, order the house wine. It's always cheap and usually really good.

If you don't want alcohol order mineral water everywhere and fit right in. I don't like the really fizzy mineral water that you see here. You can also order low fizz or non-fizz. I find I really liked the low fizz mineral water.

I could think of a lot more advice but I'll quit here. I'm sure there will be some lively discussion to follow.

Have a great trip!