Traveling in Dec with four young kids—too crazy?!

I'm sure your children have their strengths and can be wonderful, but from your description I wouldn't do it. You know them best and are stressed about it- soooo? Maybe leave them home with the babysitter - that might be better for them and you. I've traveled with my 3 boys (all grown now) but they were a bit older -3, 5, 9 and were great travelers. You've plenty of tome for family trips. Have fun whatever you do! sue

Have you done any extended domestic travel with the kids? How did that work?

I think if I were considering travel at that time of year I would be looking for somewhere the weather might be more cooperative for the kids to be outside and could play and burn off some extra energy.

Having the nanny is a great idea.

Some people get overwhelmed traveling with one child; others find traveling with five a breeze.

I always encourage people to travel with their children and I have with mine since they were babies. But I have to say your children's temperament description is not very promising. Why do they behave like that? Can the 7 and 5 years old pull their weight? (i.e help with the younger children, pull their own carry-on, listen when it matters?)

Congratulations on wanting to introduce your kids to traveling the world.

...I love Paris, but I have never visited, or thought about, what I would do with a kid there. In the mid-winter. What activities do you have in mind for yourselves and for them?

I have traveled (years ago) with three kids in that age range to many places in the US, summer and winter, but not to Europe. The babysitter is a key because the youngest three will each have a hand-holder during travel, and with three adults, one adult at a time can stay behind with uncooperative "grumps" if someone is balky. Having said that ... the real questions for me when traveling with kids was "What will they want to do? What are they capable of doing? Will the compromises that they will require allow me to enjoy the trip enough to make it worthwhile?" The two youngest should be the easiest to bribe into cooperating, and will hopefully sleep anywhere in a snuggly or a stroller. But only you know how the 5YO and 7YO navigate challenges. How have they done traveling in the US?

Since you will be seven people you are probably looking for an apartment, so maybe a good thing to ask when you locate some places to consider is if the owners know of local babysitters to come in to spell you all for some afternoons.

I agree with other commenters that someplace warmer might allow greater outdoor time and thus might be more fun and more managable for the kids. But the travel challenges, the housing challenges, the food choice challenges (fortunately Pomme frites are always available and what else do 5 and 3 year olds want?) and the required downtime for each member of the family will be the same.

Good luck!!!!! Have fun!!!!!

Have you considered Hawaii?

“Why do they behave like that? “

Ditto that question.

I think we provide an important service to people writing in asking for advice (especially when the OP has doubts), when responders here will speak up and say "maybe not a good idea" when someone's idea doesn't seem to you like a good idea--instead of staying silent.

I would do it. The extra hands of the babysitter will be just what you/they need. I, frankly, think Paris is a good any time of year. For me, a New Englander, I don't find the Parisian winter daunting; gloves, hats do the trick. There are so many wonderful parks in Paris to play in. I will say, though, the French seem to have very well behaved children. On the other hand, the ages of your children make them easy to interest and enthuse. I left my daughter home from vacation once when she was one year old, so we could go skiing and we regretted it. We felt like we were missing part of us the entire time. From then on, she came everywhere with me/us. As a result, she was a very good traveler. Many children live in Paris all year long, why shouldn't your's visit? Oh, and won't they love the patisseries? I love Parisian Christmas decorations, the windows. Beautiful. To me, Roma would be too congested, but perhaps I just don't recall the parks? Anyway, I loved traveling with my daughter, and yes, just one, but you have 4 more hands coming with you to help.

I think ten days to be hunkered down in one location would be fine. Travel can so exhausting, but it sounds like you are transplanting your day-to-day to a different locale (as opposed to covering a lot of ground and having a lot of transitions), which will make things much easier. You can settle in, and then the kids can get a chance to become more familiar and more comfortable (so the anxious traveler will be able to recuperate, hopefully).

Good idea to bring along a known sitter -- will make Paris seem more like home for the kids. Will you be staying in an apartment so the kids can eat at home in the evening while you and your husband have some (occasional) time alone together ?

P.S. -- echoing Cala, have you considered Hawaii ? We went for Christmas with our (only) daughter when she was 2 to 8.

I notice you’re from the west coast, I would think jet lag would really monkey up the kids schedule, and if they were grumpy before...
I had a strong willed grump,lol, he made all vacations challenging, I think you would be very brave going with four small children! It seems like an awfully expensive vacation for what could be a marginal time. It all depends on your attitude, if you are any easy going sort with not a lot of expectations, it could be great, I personally could not do it. I’m liking the Hawaii idea, unless you’ve done that a multitude of times.

Best wishes, happy birthday and let us know what you decide.

Do you wnat to subject your kids to 10 hours in a tube 7 miles above sea leavel, an overnight flight with a 9 hour time zone shift and 5 deg C temperatures?
Or a Hawaiian holiday with a 6 hour same day flight with a 2 hour time zone shift and cool 23 deg C tempeartures?

Yes, December/January is Hawaii's wet season, but the tourist areas (Honolulu on Oahu, Lahaina and Kehei on Mau, Knoa on the Big Island) are on the dry leeward sides of the respetive islands. And if they have to come indoors, the keiki TV shows are in English.

https://www.yr.no/place/France/%C3%8Ele-de-France/Paris/statistics.html
https://www.yr.no/place/United_States/Hawaii/Honolulu/statistics.html

Down side of Hawaii is winter is high season rates while Paris is not. And some Hawaii condos have minimum stay requirements for the XMAS-NY period. Two BR condos are common, with fewere 3 BR condos. Book the holiday season early.

Leave the kids at home with the nanny and have a nice couples-only trip, just you and your husband.

I took my kids, age 8 and 11, to Europe last year on a Disney Cruise. We had a great time, but they were just at the age where I felt they could handle it without us totally catering to them only. I would not take 4 kids under 8 to Europe, especially for a land-based trip (MAYBE on a Disney cruise, but you won't find that in December).

I admire your courage. Any thoughts to leaving them at home, and you doing the traveling? We did that on one or two occasions. We left them with Grandma, who spoiled them shamelessly. We drank wine and had a child-free time. We love our children, but somethings are better without kids.

You may want to check max size rolling luggage to minimize the number of bags the three adults will have to manage. This can be a challenge if you need to hold on to the children. Adults may be better served with backpack carry-on bags to save hands for pulling checked bags/pushing child carriers and holding on to children.

And there is the flying with children consideration: https://www.faa.gov/travelers/fly_children/

Probably a minor detail with the scope of this trip, but if you go to Hawaii you won't have to get all those passports.

Edited: you will also need to be sure your health insurance will cover you in Europe, which would not be an issue in Hawaii. It will probably also be cheaper to fly to Hawaii from the West Coast.

You are probably also aware that in Europe you will need at least two taxis, whereas in Hawaii you could probably just rent one minivan or SUV. You don't want a car in Paris or Rome, but it would be very useful in Hawaii. Just some more things to consider as you make your plans.

We took our daughter to Paris, Rome and Florence when she was 15 months old because my husband had a meeting and we didn't have anyone to leave her with. It was fine, but my in-laws also went, so we had her outnumbered 4 adults to 1 child. We needed all those adults to carry her and her stuff! When we got back to SC, she was obsessed with the new word she had learned -"statue".
We had the advantage that, even as a baby, she preferred going places to staying at home, and when she had jet lag at a time she was supposed to sleep, we just put her in the bed with us and she went right back to sleep. She just happened to have the right personality to adapt to travel. However, your children(other than the 7yr old) will likely not remember this trip. My husband did a 3 week sabbatical in London when our daughter was 4 and she doesn't remember it at all.

If your 7-year old is anxious about traveling (fear of flying?), it could be a very bad & lasting experience for your child. Maybe something much closer that everyone could enjoy. When I turned 40, our family went to Disneyland, and I had a blast. Hawaii is a great idea, too, with lots of activities where your husband and you could celebrate your birthday while your nanny has your children.

Happy 40th!

Hawaii is a great idea, but it will be expensive in late December/early January (early-mid December you’ll find good prices, though). I don't know if you've travelled to Hawaii or not, but you might look at the Island of Hawaii, and a condo that has access to the Mauna Lani beach club (for the parking and the very nice, protected cove, which is critical in the winter months). I think a winter international trip sounds like a great adventure, but the long flight from the west coast with four little ones would give me pause, as would negotiating public transport in the city. If I was going to Paris or any other large city with four young kids, I'd want an apt. near a park and a small market.

We lived overseas for several years and always took the kids wherever we traveled.

I will be honest with you, I would save my money and wait until your kids are all at least 5 years old. How will you do any museums at all with four young kids, especially the two youngest.

I remember taking my family to the Louvre after we had been in Italy for two weeks. My 6 year old Son, saw we were going into the Greek and Roman area with statues and he voiced: "Oh no, more naked statues."

Even when we went back to the Louvre with teens, after 30 minutes they were read to go.

Since you will be there in the Winter, it is a great time to do indoor stuff, like museum, but then you have the kids. Not sure you will enjoy climbing the Eiffel Tower or taking a river cruise on the Seine in the Winter. My kids loved both of those things.

I know you stated that you will bring a babysitter, but still wonder what you will do in Paris in the Winter. If you don't take the kids on tour with you, why not just leave them in the States?

Rome is a wonderful city with much to see. Again, museum to visit as well as historical venues.

I am well past 'mommy' stage, but I would ask you to consider just how much compromising you are prepared to do given the young ages of your 4 children. They will not be interested in celebrating your birthday and my concern for you is that you will feel short changed. I appreciate that families are busy with limited together time, but this is a big undertaking that will leave you all exhausted and wondering whether it was worth it. I would certainly wait until the youngest is 5 or 6.
However, what we don't know is the objective of the trip. If it is to celebrate your birthday as stated, then I say come up with a plan B that doesn't involve 4 children. If thinking the children will get anything out of it - then I ask you to reconsider that state of mind. If there is some opportunity we aren't aware of that makes the trip affordable and a once in a life time window of opportunity, then that is another thing and possibly then worth considering.
I had thought to suggest Quebec City for a taste of Europe closer to home and cheaper, but temperatures can drop drastically at that time of year making it a lot less pleasant. The flip side is that as it is still Christmas break, the museums tend to have more kids' activities available....at least for the 2 older children. What about a shorter trip to Victoria or Vancouver? Not very different to Bellingham but if new to you, then at least a break.

Has anyone else traveled with a lot of kids? Advice? Is Paris a good
destination or should we head to Roma or another city that is louder
and could manage the activities of four kids?

How well did the 4 of them travel together with you to New York, Boston, SF, DC or any US non-amusement park/beach town or city at Christmas time and New Year's?

If there were no major hiccups, have a blast in Paris this year!

If you have never done this before especially with the anxious eldest child who is now 7, consider traveling closer to home to gauge what flying will be like let alone international travel of hours at both departing and arriving airports.

Consider what is fair to your very young children to endure.

I really think this is a people-specific question, and I think you and your husband are probably the only ones who can make the call because you know yourselves and your kids. Remember that traveling can be tiring -- especially when you throw in long plane trips through multiple time zones, with jet lag and cultural schedule shifts and expectations. And a tired group of young kids with tired parents, depending on the individuals, could be a hot mess of a vacation.

I myself have 3 kids, 2 of whom are very close in age. We didn't do any big, "fun" trips with them until they reached what I call the age of reason, which is different for every kid. By this I mean that, if he/she were having a "moment," I could have a talk with him/her, explain that the current behavior was not OK, but that I understood it because I knew they were tired, and if they could just hang on a little while longer, we'd get them someplace where they could rest. And then my child, because he/she could reason through it, would stop the annoying behavior and conduct themselves appropriately until we could take a break. After which they'd be rested and a pleasure to take places again.

For my oldest, the age of reason was 7 or 8 (she was a tough one! but she turned out great :-) ). My middle child could discuss her behavior and act accordingly at age 2 -- a parental gift. We felt comfortable taking my youngest on longer trips when he was 4 or 5.

My point being that every child is different, and also every parent is different. I am a fairly structured person, and if I'm traveling, I like to have a good sense of where my day will wind up. I would have been frustrated taking my kids on a big, expensive trip when they were really young because the days would have been too unpredictable. But that's just me.

So I would recommend a realistic assessment of you and your family, and if you are all good at going with the flow, even when someone is having a tantrum or poutfest (hopefully one of your kids and not you or your husband!), then definitely go for it. We are all lucky to be able to travel at all, so take the opportunities when you have them. But if you suspect the trip will leave you tired and cranky, save it for later.

If you do decide to go, I would suggest a warmer location. I know my family is always happier when we can get some good sunshine and run-around time outdoors. Take a look at southern Spain, which is extremely kid-friendly, warm, and cheap.

Good luck!

Yes, too crazy.

To share useful advice, it would be helpful to know what experiences your family has with travel closer to home. My general advice:As you move forward with this trip, use the next six to seven months to take a few overnight trips that involve several hours in a car. This will help all of you know what to expect of one another when traveling in close quarters and to unfamiliar places. Also, think a little bit about where your children will be, developmentally, six months from now. That's a long time in a child's life, even for your seven-year-old--so they could outgrow some stages (maybe tantrums?), firm up personality traits, as well as grow into new strengths (and/or weaknesses :) ). Above all, be realistic about your expectations for this trip so that you can continue to share the joy of travel with your children!

I think it’s great (inspirational!) you’re traveling with your family, and happy 40th😊 Your post struck a cord with me when I read it. I’ll be 43 myself in a few weeks, and have a 4.5 year old and a 2 year old. The 4.5 year old is a calm, reasonable kid, although a bit anxious, and the 2 year old is a wild card. She’s either completely calm and interested in the world around her or a total mess, which is almost always correlated to her being hungry or tired. We are prepping for a trip to Switzerland and Italy next year, so I feel your trepidation minus a couple of additional kids. It’ll be my kids’ first international trip, and we are going to go with extended family so lots of extra adult hands. Smart move on the babysitter part 😊 We haven’t done a lot of domestic travel with the kids - a few long distance (12+ hrs) car rides, etc, and will be taking them on a plane ride in a few months to the beach as sort of a trial run. We also have been trying (for their whole existence!) to take them out to shops and restaurants and focusing on manners and behavior. Sometimes, with more success than others. 😊 Now, finally, we have a good handle on what their tolerance levels are, which helps us massively in managing them - a 7pm dinner that lasts 2 hours isn’t happening, but a breakfast or lunch or 5 or 6 pm dinner that lasts 2 hours and we have a couple of tricks in a bag...is doable. They’ll be off their games for at least a bit when we arrive due to time change, so we’ll have to sort out what makes sense. It might be a pizza in the room for a few days for us!

What do YOU want out of your trip? If you feel better about going someplace that you’ve already been so you can see a bit of a different side of the city and not feel like you’re going to miss out by going someplace new and potentially not being able to see...say a museum or something....then Paris (for you) is the way to go. Find child friendly excursions, go to the park, walk around, visit cafes, get snacks, take the train or ride a bus, etc. For me, I have not been to Paris, but have previously been to almost all the places I’m going next year in Switzerland and Italy (there are family reasons for this, it’s a bit of an roots exploration trip...plus some fun outings in Italy). I fully recognize that I won’t get to do all the in-depth sightseeing that I want, and that’s fine with me. I’ll just do different things - like a park instead of a museum or a toy store instead of a boutique. It’s a different type of travel. I feel more confident in my decision making on the cities as I know a bit more of what to expect logistically (although I am now in the throes of how do I deal with a metro and a stroller?) so....

For me, I’d rather be someplace warmer in December and January so I’d want to go to Italy if I was focused on Europe. I would also want to pick somewhere I’d already been - to be honest - so I wouldn’t feel like I was missing out by managing the kids. I also think about my 4.5 year old - it’s not like he’s going to remember much of this trip - your 7 year old probably would. I’m guessing they are going to be massively impressed with visual things or transportation - a bus, a train, a boat, a castle, a cafe with a chocolate crossiant, etc. Out of the places I’ve visited (again, haven’t been to Paris), for me, Rome or London fits that bill very well with stuff to look at and experience. But, you should do you, and if you want to go to Paris, figure out a way to make it work for you so everyone has a great time! A friend once told me, it’s not really a vacation with young kids - it’s just managing them in a different city. I sorta agree, yet struggle with the idea that my life goes on hold until the kids are teenagers, so...I think about how to make it work.

So, in the end, commentary from someone without a lot of kids who hasn’t traveled a lot with said kids, but is sorta in the same boat. Good luck and have a great time with whatever you chose to do!

We've taken our kids to Paris when the youngest was three and the eldest was five. They were bored stiff in Paris and that was in the summer when we could benefit from being outside. We've stayed at the Marriott resort near to Disneyland which contains two and three bedroomed townhouses in a self contained resort. Disneyland Paris is a short drive or bus ride away as well as the train station that will take you to central Paris. We've been there twice, once in the spring and once in the summer. The summer was better as the kids took advantage of the outdoor pool although there is an indoor one for the cooler months.

As much as I hate Disneyland the kids preferred it much more than the city of Paris so we only went to Paris proper on two occasions, the rest of the time was spent at DLP or in the resort. There are plenty of things to do within the vicinity, we all enjoyed the medieval town of Provins with its jousting, falconry displays and medieval re-enactments the most. I'm not sure however that the end of December would be a good time to be there, DLP should be good with the festive elements but Northern France in December and January is miserable weatherwise.

Personally, with kids that young I'd be looking at a relaxing beach resort somewhere warm. Give kids water to play in and they'll be happy all day. The prospect of coming all that way to visit the city in possibly the worst time of the year weatherwise (February probably tops it) does not appeal to me in the slightest. We've travelled with our kids since they were toddlers (admittedly only two but also unaided by a babysitter). NYC when our youngest was two was OK as a two day trip from our resort in New Jersey but other than the zoo and FAO Shwarz neither of them had any interest in any other part of NYC, all they wanted to do was go back to the hotel and ride the glass elevators.

We've also taken them to Rome on a number of occasions, they become more interested in things the older they get but our 11 year old still has zero interest in history which is in stark contrast to our 14 year old. Rome in spring and autumn is great, fantastic ofr the parks, and eating al fresco. The food in Rome will more likely be amenable to the children, is there any child that doesn't like pizza and pasta? However the weather can be a bit dicey, less dicey than Paris but dicey nonetheless.

10 days in Rome alone would be a struggle for many people, personally I love the place and could spend 10 days there alone quite easily but it's a different story with young children. Same with Paris, I'm not a great fan of the city and whilst there are people who could live the rest of the lives in the city it has the same problem as Rome when it comes to young children. This is further compounded by the time of year.

If it has to be Europe what about Southern Spain or The Balearics? We spent 10 days just after Christmas in Mallorca last year. Sunny days with temperatures averaging about 18c and higher in a nice sun trap. A number of restaurants close during the winter but there are plenty that stay open and Palma is a year round city. There are castles to run around in, caves to explore, a fantastic aquariam, an amazing train ride through the mountains on an old wooden train, hidden Arab gardens, great markets full of incredible produce and a cuisine that beats Italian in my opinion (although the kids might not agree but I've never known mine to turn down a bowl of albondigas or churros con chocolate) plus there are plenty of restaurants offering Italian cuisine.

The Costa Del Sol would be your best bet in terms of weather, it didn't earn it's name for no reason and in terms of offering different places to visit it is a good place to be based. There are a number of towns and cities that can be reached in under two hours if you base yourself somewhere between Malaga and Estepona.

A friend once told me, it’s not really a vacation with young kids - it’s just managing them in a different city. I sorta agree, yet struggle with the idea that my life goes on hold until the kids are teenagers, so...I think about how to make it work.

I disagree with your friend's assertion but that's probably down to my upbringing and experiences. Growing up poor we only had one holiday during my entire childhood and that was at a local holiday park. My first trip abroad was when I was 19 and that was a week in Ibiza with friends. That holiday ignited the travel bug in me and when my future wife and I got together we travelled extensively. It helped immensely that she worked part time at the local Marriott hotel so she was eligible for staff rates at any Marriott worldwide so we stayed in rooms costing £200+ for £35 irrespective of where we were.

We then got married and had kids relatively early by today's standards but that didn't put a hold on our travelling, it simply meant we did it differently. Instead of spending the nights in restaurants and bars it was an early dinner and back to the hotel (we've always maintained a similar bedtime routine when away, in fact our eldest was absolutely insistent at going to bed at the same time as he would at home) so it became more akin to being at home. This didn't bother us in the slightest, both of us continued to take separate holidays with friends where we could continue the party lifestyle, but during the daytime it was definitely a holiday rather than a feeling that it's the same day to day stuff with kids but in a different place. However, things do become easier above the age of six so definitely no need to wait for the teenage years before it becomes more pleasurable. In fact, one can argue that the teenage years are worse, lots of grumpiness and lots of wanting to stay in their rooms on their iPads/phones etc and plenty of pretending not to be actually enjoying themselves.

If you want to visit France but without the jet lag, fly could down to Guadeloupe or Martinique in the Caribbean. Those a full fledged French departments—in fact, you’ll even see EU signs for EU-funded projects, there are plenty of family-friendly resorts, most of the tourists are from mainland France, and it’s warm. Personally, that’s how I’d enjoy my 40th—warm, relaxed, kids in bed with the sitter, enjoying a drink on the veranda in the French Caribbean.

My three boys were usually well behaved but I would not have taken them to Paris, or anyplace but a warm resort in the winter. I took them to Washington DC when the oldest was 8 and the youngest was 3. They were bored and miserable, and so was I!

Please note , travelling with one or two kids IS easier than three or four - so I’d ignore some of the apples to oranges comparisons .

We had three kids , close in age , initially we tried some international travel with first two , thinking “ kids won’t change our style “ lol - yeah right , we managed with two , but the bump up to three meant having three under 6 and so we stopped most flying trips and just did rv holidays , and simple trips to Hawaii ( it is easy place with kids for sure ) !

One of my children is and was unique - moody and “ difficult “ as a baby and young child - but was diagnosed with SLD and social anxiety by age 6 , which explained a lot , as other toe kid were so much “ easier “ .

Honest opionion - I would not do trip you outline - even with a nanny - weather will likely suck - so are kids mostly going to sit in apartment all day ? You could hire another nanny ( so two ) and let them all stay home , you’d be saving tons in airfare etc so a good live in nanny would be ok money wise ( or grandparents ) and this is NOT because I don’t agree or believe in travel with kids , I definitely do , but you have your families unique make up to consider .

Christmas in Paris could be magical or it could be a nightmare.

But again it depends on the parenting style +/- behavioral issues with the children.
I know a few 3 years old who are amazing traveling companions. No child is alike.

I'll throw my 2 cents in because why not:

2 of my friends, the most "Type A" people I know, have two kids, 3 and 1.5 years. They come to visit my city every so often. They are Parisians, they travel frequently with the kids for skiing and whatnot.

I don't think they'd do this. And they're 2 kids less than you and they live in Paris and I'm pretty sure they'd balk at this idea.

What a nightmare for fellow travelers to be stuck in the middle of unbridled kids. Parents know if their children are controllable or not. So if you know you can’t control them then please don’t dump them on the other passengers. Flying is already miserable enough even on a good day.

Tim, I really laughed when I read your post. I so wanted to say something similar. When airplanes had smoking sections (lo, those many years ago) an acquaintance of mine, not a smoker, chose to sit in that section so as not to be bothered by unruly children. Or even “ruly” ones, for that matter.

Sorry for delay—I don’t spend a lot of time on my phone and am only getting a free moment now.

We have done some domestic travel (road trips) and build in stops along the way the kids will want to do. We just got back from HI (all of us went) and it was not an enjoyable trip despite keeping the kids’ routine the same and doing the beach and pool. The one morning we went to a lavender farm the two middle kids had big tantrums! And that’s what made me concerned about traveling in Dec to Paris.

I think the 7 and 5 yo could manage well enough in Paris (the 5 yo and the 3 yo feed off each other). I know 6 mos from now the 3 yo will be just that much older but looking at his temperament and development I doubt he’d be ready for international travel.

I love the idea of the French Caribbean. It seems consensus is to wait a few more years. I’ll check back in later as time allows. The boys are up from nap! Thanks for the advice!

I'm agreeing with others who have advised to wait until they are a little bit older, and it seems as if you are leaning that way, too. By waiting, I think you will have a more wonderful and enjoyable trip for each member of your family. The youngest my grandchildren were for our first trip was 7, 8 & 9 and it was an awesome trip. Together we generated so many wonderful memories for all and I know that's what you'd like to happen for your family, too. When my own kids were small (their parents!), all we could were afford camping trips. While also memorable, I must say I/we have really, really enjoyed these European trips😉! I do think the idea of an all inclusive beach-y resort type of trip might work just fine for you family. Less moving, less upset to internal schedules, less stress?? Whatever decision you ultimately make, it will be the right one for you and your family. There is always a learning curve to traveling and especially when traveling with kids!

We just got back from HI (all of us went) and it was not an enjoyable trip despite keeping the kids’ routine the same and doing the beach and pool. The one morning we went to a lavender farm the two middle kids had big tantrums! And that’s what made me concerned about traveling in Dec to Paris.

Good reason for concern. If a 3hr time change to somewhere where outdoor activity is readily available does not work well, a 9hr change to a location that will have questionable outdoor time available, to me, looks like a recipe named Disaster.

I removed a side discussion. Thanks in advance for keeping it on topic.

While I agree with the consensus that the trip proposed is not a good idea, if you still really want to be in Paris for your birthday but don’t want to leave the kids stateside, perhaps another option to consider would be taking the family to London (where there is a for the kids to do and will be a less foreign environment for them) and then leaving the kids with the babysitter for a day and night while you and your partner take the Eurostar to Paris and back. And then giving the babysitter the same space for alone time.

Personally think it is a good time for grandparent bonding. And a slight problem with Paris at that time of year is some bad weather that could force everyone inside. This is where a small flat might work better than multi hotel rooms. The trip will mean nothing to the 3 yr old and the 16 month. And for the most part the schedule will be controlled by the 16 month's eating and sleeping pattern. Seriously consider leaving them with the grandparents so you could have a special trip with the other two. I just see the potential for a lot of misery. If I was your parents I would grab the two young ones.

My parents started traveling with us when I was 5 and my one brother 3. The first trip is still a memory due to it being mostly bad. (Sick kids, miserable weather, no prior camping experience, etc) After that we did a big trip every two years (2-4 weeks) and weekend ones more often, even with my baby brother when he came around. But, my parents were very strict about what constituted proper behavior, and were not at all shy in removing us from public places and driving home lessons on what was acceptable. I grew up traveling, and have been all over the world. From my experience untrained kids are one of the worst detractors to travel that I know of, and American children are the worst. You and your children will not have an optimal trip if "tantrums like nobody’s business" and grumpiness are part of it, and (a greater sin in my opinion) neither will those who are in your vicinity.

That being said, I highly encourage you to travel with your children, and school them on proper manners and the delights encountered on the road.

Last, I wouldn't take them to Paris. Think about it; what possible good impression of the city, or international travel, do you expect them to gain from this trip? Long lines, miserable travel crowds, bad weather, and frankly not a lot of the type of activities kids that age enjoy. A bad experience now is not going to make them want to experience the joys of travel 2-3-6 years from now. Your job as parents is to train your kids that traveling to another country is fun, not a horrid gauntlet of trials to be endured. Plan your trip around your kids.

"...traveled with a lot of kids?" No, precisely, I traveled twice with one kid, my grandson to Paris and France when he was 4 in 2005 and again in 2011 in France when he was 10. Both times he was a great trooper, could not have expected better from him.

I linked up with him (and his mother) in Paris. They had gone earlier to London.

We had agreed to rendezvous at Gare de Lyon all four of us, ie, the Mrs, my grandson, his mom, and I, . that very morning to take the TGV to Perpignan that 5 hr ride. The Mrs held each of our train tickets and the sandwiches too !

I started to read all the above posts but gave up. I have three kids and we've travelled with them since they were babies. Didn't decide to travel to Europe until they were 5, 7 and 10. It was amazing and we've returned every year since. We travel in summer but paris in winter isn't like Winter in Canada so I'd do it. That said, my kids listen, they do what they're told and we learned that trip that they love museums, parks, wandering, practicing their french, etc. If you'r 7 yr old is anxious, it will be great for him/her to work through it (I have two kids with anxiety disorders). As for the temper tantrum, I've never had to deal with that so can't advise. I'm totally flabbergasted by the number of people recommending Hawaii! I don't see it in your initial post so not sure at all where it came from. We like the Caribbean, have never been to Hawaii as Europe is closer for us, but if you want to explore the beauty and history that is Europe how on earth is Hawaii comparable?!? Stepping off soap box now. One piece of advice, hire a guide for a few locations. Make sure its someone that is fam;iliar with touring kids and you'll have an awesome time. We had a great guide for the Louvre on that trip and the kids loved it and still remember it. The same guide toured us to Versailles and again, we all loved it, even the 5 year old. Just my 2cents.