Traveling Companion Woes

Now you know why I travel alone.

Don't bring up another trip. Perhaps they weren't happy either. Be honest with your sister. Tell her you enjoy traveling with her but that you and your BIL's travel style is different. Perhaps the two of them would enjoy traveling alone. And stick to it. Why must you travel with them "to keep the peace?" It's your time and money too. Do what you want.

I've had lots of friends/relatives suggest we travel together. I've always come up with some reason why it's not a good idea.

BTW, your BIL sounds really spoiled and self centered.

Travel with your sister, assuming she can deal with him not wanting her to do so. This advice from a single, solo traveler. 😁

I'm like Frank II, this is why I travel solo. I am not here to plan someone else's vacation or keep them entertained, I travel for my own enjoyment and do not need to drag someone else along.

Carrie,
so sorry, but this does mean you must return to Italy, solo, and this time stay in Venice, visit Lake Como, and then maybe get to Sorrento/Amalfi. Maybe start in Switzerland and ride the Bernini Express route into Italy.
Too bad there isn't a way to board your BIL like many folks board their pets!!!

I can't disagree with anything Frank II said. Your BIL sounds like a real peach. As you've found out, travelling with someone whose travel style doesn't mesh with yours is an exercise in frustration. Perhaps stick with solo travel for now, or maybe join a small group tour . Hopefully you will eventually meet someone with a more compatible style in the future. I learned years ago that if a travel companion had no interest in contributing to the advance trip planning, there would be problems during the trip.

Well, there may be a few options, all with pros and cons.
1. Only solo travel in the future
2. If BIL wants to travel, offer to do the planning and send them on their own.....or start the first few days with them and then send them on their own.
3. Continue to travel with them to share lodging costs and transport logisitcs, but spend the day on your own to see what you want to see. Let him figure out his own darn American breakfast. Make it clear from the original planning stage, that each person is allowed to spend the day as they want...including your sister.
4. Return to sisters trips and precook and freeze him a bunch of meals and hire a temporary cleaner....or at least provide some phone numbers for Uber Eats, pizza delivery, and Molly Maids.
But I feel for you. It isn't fair to havenyour vacation ruined, but you shouldn't have to put up with that spoiled oaf. I also feel for your sister who has chosen to put up with him full time.

Oh boy. You have the patience of a saint to have put up with that. I would have pointed the BIL to the nearest McDonald's and said see ya.

Add me to the list of people who HAPPILY travel solo. I'll travel with my husband and son but no one else. I used to have a couple of friends who, when I mentioned I was going somewhere solo, would ask if they could come along. NO. Not if we want to stay friends.

You should have no guilt about refusing to travel w/your BIL in the future. Life is too short! If they want to travel in the future, let them plan it and go on their own.

Carrie, I get it and totally understand your frustration. My advice is for you to try to continue travel with your sister without her husband. He sounds like a very self-centered person.

I am a predominantly solo traveler for many reasons. However, this month I am traveling with a good friend for the first time knowing that she is a night owl and I am an early bird. We may have some challenges with schedules, but I know this and will adjust to make the trip copacetic for the both of us. The trip is just two nights - a kind of stay vaca to Vancouver, BC (we live in Seattle area). We have two events/dinners planned that I know won’t be problematic as far as schedules. It’s the early morning rising that sometimes can be an adjustment. I usually just set my outfit on the bed the night before and then in the morning quietly get out the door for coffee/birding on my own.

HAPPY travels is the way to go. Best wishes for future trips with your sis.

Linda

My first reaction is to ask if your brother-in-law has seen a calendar lately and is aware what year it is.

I think you should plan the trips YOU want. Stay in the cities you want, choose the hotels you want, and show them (or just your sister) your itinerary and say “I’m going on this trip on such-and-such date. You’re welcome to come along if you want.” I say this because I know you want your sister to experience travel. You shouldn’t have to compromise because an adult man refuses to make himself a sandwich.

If I were travelling with someone who was watching YouTube when we were supposed to go catch a train to Venice, I would have just left him. It sounds like he isn’t very interested and is probably not getting much out of the experience anyway.

Agree that even at home in the US, travel with your BIL would be a challenge! You are clearly a very organized and experienced traveller and he might be easier to deal with at a resort (say Hawaii) where he can watch videos and more familiar food while you and your sister do day trips in the area?
I am only just venturing out again, but love the planning process, too. Traveling with me isn't a "vacation" vacation- with my dietary restrictions and a daily planned itinerary, lingering in a cafe and people watching is not my style.
Your idea of a compromise - one annual sisters' trip and one (at a holiday?) that accounts for the BIL's preferences seems like a reasonable solution.
I just have to add, though, that you schlepping their passports all over? It put you in the position of a parent or tour leader (except I don't think tour leaders carry everyone's passports?!) That might be the " deal breaker" if you are put in the role of caretaker- unless it's worth it to have the time with your sister.

I hope your sister does not read the RS Forum, or maybe you do :-)

Some people just are not cut out for independent travel overseas. Now you know 2 people who aren't.

numerous comments about how the food and coffee taste different than in the US.

Yes, it tastes a whole lot better!

I don't think you sound petty. I think you sound like a planner!

I've been thru similar things with brother/SIL/other assorted family members. Last time I planned a trip it was just time before a RS tour and was in London. I asked for input on what people wanted to see. I sent out several iterations of the itinerary to get comments. "Whatever you decide is best"....ugh..... We could never get away from the hotel early as one of the group had to poop first (we are old) and also is not much of a morning person anyway (I knew this ahead of time). At least youtube videos were not being watched, lolol!!

As we were on the train to Canterbury to meet up with the RS tour, the discussion was "Gosh I wish we'd had time to shop". That fried me. They KNOW I am not a shopper. If they wanted shopping time they could easily have said they wanted to go off on their own or they could have looked at the itinerary on one of the iterations and said...we need shopping time!

My thought is to consider a tour of some kind where the onus for planning and getting people going in the AM is on the tour guide. OR decide ahead of time that you will split off for some of the time and do your own thing. For myself, I'll probably not travel with them again or if I do, I will try not to do everything together. OR I will say....here is my itinerary for things I plan to see and do. You are welcome to join me or you can split off and do your own thing.

Sending you kind thoughts....and hope that your trip was not totally spoiled.

Wow! You ended up having to babysit them on the trip. I can empathize as we had inexperienced travelers attach themselves to us a couple of times on two different tours and it was not fun.

A long time ago, I learned that you find out things about people, when you travel with them, that may mean no more trips, or, at most, a few days of a longer trip. In my case it’s also close relatives whom we love dearly, but they can be obnoxiously inflexible know-it-alls. After a particularly awful time with them, just a few days not a whole trip, I said to myself, no more.
I suggest you cultivate that mindset. If you can be candid with your sister, be so. Otherwise, just dodge further suggestions for joint ventures.
Addendum: Pam’s suggestions are good, but wouldn’t help with your BIL’s breakfast desires. He sounds like he really doesn’t want a European travel experience, so I’d make him an absolute no for further inclusion.

Ugh.

You've had some great suggestions. I have nothing to add but my empathy.

I truly appreciate all the responses, suggestions, and support. It’s all very kind and helpful.

I should have mentioned that we were planning a trip to Spain for March 2023. Well, I was planning it for us. 😊 I think I’ll wait for my sister to bring it up and then suggest they might be happier with a beach trip in the US as they both seem to prefer those. I’ll also see if my sister has any interest in a solo trip to Europe. Or, if they still want to go to Spain, I’ll have to think on that some more.

I have 2 solo trips coming up later this year and am looking forward to those. For next year, I was planning the Spain trip with them and 2 additional solo trips. I can easily change that to 3 solo trips for next year.

"I say this in sympathy - I took a monthlong trip a couple of years ago with an old friend. And I felt the same way the whole time. I vowed to never do it again - but she thought it was great, so I spent a year getting around trying to explain how I love solo travel and her not believing me….. It has been a problem."

TexasTravelMom!!!!!! That has happened to a friend of mine who has had several people travel with her. They had a wonderful time, friend not so much.

Out of a reasonably robust social life, I have exactly two friends who I would travel with (and have). And even with them, I have pre-commitment discussions about it being OK to want personal space, OK to want to do different things, punctuality, expenses, and more.

Others have expressed in interest in traveling with me, but I try to politely avoid addressing it directly.

Carrie...boy do I feel your pain. My "travel companions" are friends that we have traveled with a few times and the last trip with them put them on the "do not fly" list for me. Since they are not relatives it's a little easier to move on from them .... I do travel with my sisters and there are issues, but I tend to travel with them every couple three years, so I guess I forget the pain :)

I like the idea of zoom calls to get them engaged in the planning BUT I will say from my last experience I learned that zoom calls work only when the participants actually pay attention.... like my "travel companions" who are off my list - it is now overwhelmingly apparent that they did not. Talk to your sister about her Hubbys' expectations or use a phrase I picked up somewhere ... it is obvious that our travel styles are not all that similar - what can we do to address the difference - like how far from the train station to stay or folks who would rather watch you tube or in my case sit at the hotel pool - then the get a move on!

And this is why I absolutely relish the delights of traveling solo. My time on earth and my time to explore the world are limited & precious, why allow people who don't mesh to spoil a minute of it? I did allow someone to come along on a trip to NYC that I had meticulously planned and that was okay because he knew better than to question anything and went along happily...all he wanted was to see Times Square so we walked through it once, quickly. Can your sister and her husband be left alone to do anything so that you can get a bit of enjoyment if you are ever forced to travel with the two of them again?

Angry on your behalf. Travel seems to bring out the best and the worst in others.

While others have suggested going solo (nothing wrong with that), another alternative is to go on a tour. That way, it's not you having to make all the plans and decisions, but others who handle the logistics and are in charge. Then your BIL can either go along or drop out. I'll mention a cruise as well, but thats a whole different topic.

Do not be a martyr. It's not your fault he's not suited for travel as an adult. Sounds like he wants to be passive-aggressive and didnt really want to go. Take him to Olive Garden to make up for his disappointing vacation.

If you are not a match, you are not a match.

I personally would resent someone telling me (as an adult) that I had to wear a neck wallet. I probably shouldn’t travel with you either😀.

Expectations are tricky things . I long ago learned that if I travel with family it ceases to be my trip. If I know that going in, and I choose to do it anyway, than I just need to accept that things will not go “my way.”

I'm so sorry your spoilt BIL ruined your trip.
Did they, he specifically, even thank you for doing all the planning???
I'm betting he did not.

Nothing to add, except this is why I also travel solo most of the time.
The only person I travel with now is my friend from nursing school.
We've been friends for 50 years.
Even then I have a few days at the beginning and the end of each trip all by myself.

Last year, five good friends went on a trip to the UK and I did not go.
I was getting WhatsApps, emails, and pm's the whole time from them all, complaining about each other!!!
I was safe at home, away from the "drama".

If you haven't traveled alone before, now is a good time to begin!

Carrie, I've almost always traveled solo, but occasionally I have traveled to Europe with friends. I've found that their style of travel is very different from mine and could easily have caused problems. However, one thing I did early on was to talk to them and explain that they are more than welcome to go with me to see certain sights and events, but that we have to be on the same page about when to leave; otherwise, we go separately.

I've also discussed with them that it's important for all of us to have some "me" time - for them it may be lounging in the hotel and watching Youtube videos. :) For me it's being able to walk around by myself for a bit. One friend was fine with that - in fact, she preferred it. She likes to take naps even when traveling and didn't want to have to feel guilty about it. Another friend was a little hurt in the beginning, but after she experienced getting around on her own, she had a great time.

If you do travel again with your BIL, I would have a meeting before you leave and talk over everything in advance. Then make sure they have access to the research you've done so that they can pick out spots to see. And no enabling. :) If he loses his passport, he has to deal with it. If he isn't ready to go when you are, leave him behind.

This is your second European trip with your BIL and sister, correct? How did this one turn out so badly whereas the other seemed to go ok? What is the diference between the two trips?

Just reading between the lines here, it seems that all the pre-trip "getting-on-the-same-page" happened only with your sister, without the involvement of the BIL? Was that an oversight? My general take is not to get too emotionally invested in how others' keep their passports safe - just lay out the pros and cons and consequences should the passports be lost - and then let adults be adults, even if that means suffering the consequences. Don't "force it" and don't get overly upset if others aren't following the same script. There was no evidence the BIL would do that anyway so why bother trying? Just be honest and state the tradeoffs of different options, and then let the chips fall where they may. You are not responsible for other adults, or their choices. Also, if travel companions cause this much anguish, then it's probably best to just separate for at least a few hours or even a day (and again, don't feel responsible for being the "guide" or chaperone..let them figure it out).

Sorry to hear that your trip played out this way! I don't think your frustration with the outcome sounds petty at all. I think it is smart to know yourself and know who you travel well with, or if you would prefer to travel solo. I definitely have my opinions and feelings on who I can travel with, and who is not a good fit. Wishing you all the best for future travels!

Here's how things turned out for my husband and me when we planned a trip to New Zealand and Sydney with two other couples that we had known for about two years.

The three ladies each bought a guide book for New Zealand. Each book was a different guide book company.
We would be traveling by mini van for 3 1/2 weeks. My husband would be driving with the challenges of left hand shifting and driving on the left and GPS wasn't a thing back then. One of the fellas would sit up front to navigate with maps. And in fact we took the ferry from Wellington across to Picton on the south island . We couldn't take the rental van on the ferry and arranged ahead of time to pick up an identical van in Picton. When back to Wellington we took a train up to Auckland to save time driving back up there. So you see there were logistics involved in the planning.

I took the three guide books and a large map of New Zealand and began to plan the trip.
I cross referenced sites and routes, hotels , B&Bs, etc. among all three books. I spent hours and hours and days to make a good plan. We planned to book the first and last hotels plus Wellington ahead of time. We decided to wing it for the other hotels and B&Bs since it would be October. We went to the Information booths to book them. I was a little concerned about that especially with three couples but it worked out fine.

When I was finished with the plan we invited everyone over for dinner and to show them the plans for their input and changes. They all said " Oh, whatever you planned is fine with us".
I was shocked and worried about being responsible about everybody else's vacations plans.
Well, I needn't have worried. Everyone was so cooperative, happy and good natured and we had a wonderful time. It was the best trip of our lives. We stayed friends and still are to this day.

We also travelled with another couple on two different trips and never had a problem. Then we went on a Rick Steves Tour with an extension at the end with yet another couple and everything went well. I guess we just have an agreeable bunch of friends. I wish it were so for everyone.

Everything you wrote above underscores why I travel alone the majority of the time. I would NEVER put up with all you described above from any sibling of mine nor the spouse of that sibling.

Let your sister travel with her husband and you go off on your own and enjoy life!!

I’m just not sure I want to travel again with my bro in law.

What comes to mind reading that is 'Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me'
If you travel with him again, you have only yourself to blame. It is sad he is such a jerk.

When you and your sister want to travel, perhaps send him off to an all inclusive Mexican/Caribbean resort?

Only solo trips from now on?

If the choice is solo or the 3 of you, then yes, only solo. No need for you to put up with someone so inconsiderate.

Oh Carrie, I am sorry. This is such a drag. And many of us have been there.

Honestly I wouldn’t plan on traveling with the two of them again. I hope that you and your sister are able to go, but her husband sounds like such a baby that he doesn’t even want her to go without him!!

I’m sorry that something you were so looking forward to ended up being so stressful and disappointing.

Look forward to your own trips in the future.

Really great advice here. I appreciate the time everyone has taken to respond.

I’m not sure why this trip went so differently from our Switzerland trip. That was our first trip together so maybe everyone was on their best behavior. Or I was so excited to finally travel after covid maybe I was more tolerant then.

And I get the point about not forcing the neck wallet. As the older, more responsible one, I definitely took on the role of feeling responsible for everyone.

No one else has said it, so I will. Your BIL is a jerk. I use the word jerk because we are on this forum. But you can easily guess the opportune word.
I would drop him from your circle of friends like a hot potato. It is not that he was such an ******** on the trip but also he is like that complaining about his daily living hardships when your sister is off with you.
Good God!

For the Spain trip you could start at a nice resort hotel and then just leave the BiL there while you and your sister travel around. He will have all his food and cleaning done for him and can watch his phone all day long.

Hi Carrie, what an awful experience!

As soon as I read this early sentence, I planned the trip as I enjoy this part of the process and my sister and bro in law have no interest in the pre-trip prep.. I knew this wasn’t going to go well. No planning easily can transition to feeling free to complain about anything and expecting the planner to step into “travel guide” for them.

Your description of the time there just feels like a heavy blanket of gloominess pushing down all of the fun energy of a trip. I really don’t think a tour next time would take care of the issues because he would still be complaining about the food, the distance to the hotels, any plans for free time, etc.

Please do your sister and you a favor and have an honest conversation very soon. Tell her that all of you are probably aware now that the Spain trip would bring out the same issues on everyone’s personalities. So, you’re giving her the freedom to do what they want as a couple next March, instead. (Maybe a trip that has a Denny’s Restaurant- LOL! ) Share that a couple of weekend trips, spa trips - whatever, with your sister probably will be more fun for everyone.

Do not let her talk you into another trip. It’s just not a good match.

We went to Italy in 2021 with my daughter and husband, son and fiancé, and our nephew. It was mostly successful but did have a few issues.

No one wore their passport like we thought they should (and had discussed). We decided to not make more of a point about it as we thought it would spoil the trip. No one lost their passport fortunately . But I understand your frustration. I would decide in the future (if there is one) that people can do what they want and it is not your responsibility to bail them out if they lose it. They are adults and you could help them on the right train and then it is their problem.

We stayed first on Lake Como which meant we had to take ferries and our location meant there were not many of them. So I would go off in the morning and buy the tickets after we agreed on time of ferry to take. Anyone who wasn’t there would be left behind. Everyone understood that. It never happened but very close. That is what I would do if you do travel together in future. Set a time and be prepared to leave if others aren’t ready. It is easier if you have a ticket for train/ferry to make so it isn’t you being arbitrary.

Oh gosh Carrie, hope this is the last time on this! We used to travel with friends and family, and the absolute WORST thing is doing all the planning is to then having the lazy non-planners complain about it! I sometimes even have to remind my spouse about this. Differing styles can also be an issue, I learned with family who can not sit still for 5 minutes to let them just go off themselves and then do my thing. I’m more a stop and smell roses type of traveler so to be with hyperactive folks that need constant stimulation is not a good fit. Or those who expect you to be tour guide down to finding the closest restroom!

So agree with all the comments here—but if you do go with them again you plan what YOU want to do and let them know they’re welcome to join you or not but stick to your own thing. Absolutely leave someone who wants to watch YouTube. Just leave, don’t feel smothered by togetherness. I also agree maybe a tour would help at least some days. Dump the responsibility back on them “well I booked,a food tour for tomorrow, you can book too if you want, otherwise will see you later”, etc. One time we had about 20 couples that wanted to do something together for a huge milestone birthday for about 1/2 the group. We ended up on a cruise and it worked out great because everyone can do what they want and just meet up later at dinner. Anyway I’m just echoing what everyone else has said. Plan everything for yourself including hotels, etc. Dump the responsibility of matching or doing something else on THEM! Good luck!

@Pam, I’m sure glad I didn’t have a cup of coffee in my hand when I read this - LOL!

”We could never get away from the hotel early as one of the group had to poop first”

I hate to sound as smug as I do, but my husband happily wears a neck wallet, but he has the sense to tuck it in - so it doesn't look dumb - not that he would care if it did.

The problem starts at the very start, with you taking over the planning. No, not again (if there is an again.) Everyone should share the planning responsibilities. Then, if things are not working, everyone shares the blame. And be sure to understand, before you start packing, that each individual can go his or her own way. Not all events must be shared, except in the chatter over dinner..

@Jean - I'm relying on our friendship for you not to ever mention I said that to any of the people you know I share a house with, lol!!

And to Carrie....I love the stories your thread has brought out! LOTS of different experiences and things to think about!

I’m not sure why this trip went so differently from our Switzerland trip.

There you have it. BIL had Italian cultural shock. "Where's the deep dish pizza?"

Woo boy…this resonates! Travel companions really can make or break the trip.

I’ve only had luck traveling with family….maybe because they go along with my spreadsheet , no questions asked, lol. (Honestly I’ve realized I may be a control freak with my meticulous planning and have learned to loosen the reins!)

I just have not had luck traveling with friends.

One is tiny and a chronic overpacker. We took a tour of Scotland that clearly said one suitcase per person, as it was portered for you. She showed up to airport with 2 huge suitcases. Then she expected me to help her with them. Very entitled and it rankled me, like I was her valet! #1 rule of traveling is don’t bring more than you can handle.

Then the next friend, out of nowhere, was suddenly into Michelin rated restaurants. I like to eat well, but not expensive, and in Europe, you can do that with a little research. I went along one night, spent $200 and 3 hours, and I was done with that. Food is not something I want to go out of my way for.

That's the great thing about being married for 40 years. We're "one but we're not the same" as Bono sang. But the best part is we read each other instinctively and it's a real thing of wonder and beauty.

I'm guessing none of these folks served in the military, because doggone they're soft.

Oh brother (in-law)!! If I were you Carrie I would have been tempted, and maybe would have, grabbed whatever device he was using to watch YouTube and, well, I'll stop now. Fortunately I have only had minor annoyances/inconveniences when traveling with others. Although there is one person with whom I will never travel again and I did have one person apologize post-trip for being a prima donna. And those experiences are what led my husband and I to decline an invitation to hike in Switzerland with others who I suspect have never walked more than 5 miles at a time and certainly not above 2000 meters.

I don't necessarily think you need to abandon any future plans for travel with companions. Yes, your BIL sounds like a card, but setting a few ground rules in advance might prevent misunderstandings and problems in the future.

For example:

• If there's a time to leave, I will leave at that time. If you are not with me, you will be responsible for getting to our next destination on your own.
• If we have something scheduled, I will allow time to arrive at the scheduled time. If you are not with me, I will leave without you.
• We can each do our own thing for meals. If you want to come with me, you are welcome. If not, you are free to dine at any place of your choosing.
• We are each responsible for ourselves. If you lose money or a credit cards or a passport, you are responsible for resolving the problem. I will not interrupt my plans to help you.
• Each of us is entitled to time on our own whenever we want. You are free to strike out on your own, and so am I. But if you decide to join me on my adventure, you need to keep to my pace, and not complain if I move too fast or too slow.
• If you fail to abide by these rules (or any others I make up at any time during the trip), I will continue the remainder of the itinerary on my own, and you will be on your own.

As long as they agree to these terms, sure, let them tag along!

When I started to read your post, Carrie, it was déja vu. Then I wanted to kick your brother-in-law. Is he a jerk at home too? Lane, I like your “rules” list.

My first Europe trip in 25 years, first to Italy, in 2019, I asked my sister-in-law to go with me. No response after I sent her the info. Her husband was surprised when we visited a month later when I asked her if she decided to go with me to visit the land of her ancestors; she'd never mentioned it to him. My hubby said forget about her, so I planned my trip, bought plane tickets, signed up for RS South of Italy tour. Wouldn't you know it, two weeks later she said she wanted to go. Okey-dokey. Changed some of the plans to accommodate two people, told her which plane tickets to buy, which RS tour to sign up for, how to get a passport, etc, etc.

I soon realized that she didn't have a clue, didn't read the guide books. In hindsight, it wasn't that she wasn't interested in planning, but that she was so intimidated and out of her comfort zone that she couldn't make decisions. After knowing her for 50 years, I should have known that she's a procrastinator. Like you, I love the research and planning and am very organized. For sightseeing in Rome and Venice, I'd give her two choices per day, "do you want to go here or here?" and narrowed the trip that way. Since she can barely use a computer, I booked just about everything.

I would have strangled your brother-in-law. My SIL is so amicable, never complained, seldom offered an opinion. In a way it was nice to drag someone around to see what I wanted, to see her almost child-like amazement, but exhausting to make it her trip too. She was overly cautious, wore both a neck wallet and a money belt; I never could figure out why because she also had a large Travelon purse I gave her. And when she lost her passport in Venice due to her carelessness, I wanted to scream. Fortunately the police found her passport, returned it, gave her the police report so she could get through immigration to go home. Then she promptly packed the report in her suitcase that was being checked. What the __ (you fill in the blank). I almost left her in Venice.

The funny thing is, I would travel with her again. I now know how she is and can work with it. We've become quite close since the trip. But I think I really prefer to travel solo even if it's a little terrifying at times (my inexperience is showing). You are lucky your sister and you travel well together and hopefully have more trips together. Just kick the BIL to curb so he stays home. Or if he insists on going, plan nothing for him so you can lock him in the hotel room and order him McDonald's. Then do what you and your sister want to do.

Plenty of good advice here so far, and so, so much to relate to. I remember my first (and only) trip to Hawaii with my parents and grandmother, the latter having been to the islands dozens of times. Grandma was in her early 80s at the time and pretty much only wanted to sit in the condo and watch "Matlock" reruns because she'd "seen everything already." My folks and I waited for her to take an afternoon nap and then bolted out to walk/sightsee/etc. returning before she noticed we were gone. Or the time I did a girls weekend with a friend to San Francisco. She nearly had a nervous break down when our hotel room didn't have cable TV or a hairdryer, then she got lost in Golden Gate Park and blamed me (I wasn't with her), and only wanted to eat at Hard Rock Cafe because the food in our Chinatown neighborhood was too scary.

My lesson: you can love and spend time with your friends and family but in smaller doses, different venues, and using less airline miles. Consider this recent trip your lesson learned. You can spend quality time with your sister and bro-in-law in other ways. It might be hard to find a graceful way out of planning a group trip since you've set the precedent of doing several already, but you will find a way. Having a sister and a brother in law myself, those relationship waters can get a bit tricky to navigate when it comes to setting boundaries. Best of luck, and much sympathy.

I wish I had a travel companion plan a trip to Europe for once.
I would not take that brother in-law ever again.

I personally would resent someone telling me (as an adult) that I had to wear a neck wallet.

That's exactly what I thought.

I think it's important to make it clear from the start that everyone is responsible for themselves. And it is also clear that there are certain times for everything and whoever is not there just had bad luck.

And the most important thing for me is that it is clear that everyone can do anything whenever they want. That's especially important for me because I take photos when the light is right - I'm not very sociable then I would say :-) :-) So I can only travel with someone who accepts that anyway. In 99% of all cases this is my husband.

my husband happily wears a neck wallet, but he has the sense to tuck
it in - so it doesn't look dumb

If you can believe it, my brother-in-law did have the neck wallet on under this shirt. And still complained everyone could see it.

Carrie I think you put too much pressure on yourself and they treated you like a tour guide instead of a travel partner. I wouldn't give up on another trip with them, but I would make it clear before any reservation is made on how, if they travel with you, things are going to operate. The more responsibility and rules you hoist on your BIL, the more likely he might just say, "why don't you two go without me this time".

I feel for you. When it is family, you are more stuck than if it were someone else, IME.

We took my mom to France once. She had a great time, but let's just say that she was WAY outside her comfort zone and not in a good way;)

The worst travel companion we had though was one of my daughters friends. The girls did their study abroad in Paris, and I met them at the end for a couple of weeks. I knew the girl and her family. They traveled quite a bit, so we figured it would work out. There was one day that both my daughter and I almost left her on a corner and I said if murder was legal I would have done that. Little did we know until that trip that she was most likely bipolar. From that point on my daughter and I did what we wanted and if she wanted to tag along she could, and she did. It was better, but still far from ideal. I was not about to let her ruin the trip.

After that I am very careful about who I travel with.

I always travel solo, not necessarily from wish, but from life's necessity.

In 2021 I was asked to travel with a friend, in Scotland. In a moment of weakness, and at the time in an emotionally frail condition I said yes. It was agreed it would be a coach tour (not my style, but hey ho). Then followed much vacillation and a couple of cancellations and re-bookings as to which tour to do.
I suppose the writing should have been on the wall then but I chose not to see it.
So the next question was how she was going to travel from London to Glasgow to meet the tour. This is someone who has spent years shuttling between Jordan and the UK, so is an experienced traveller.
Driving was out of the question, as was the train. It was plane or nothing. Fine. So I (not her) had to spend much time and effort identifying possible flights- most being rejected on various spurious grounds. Settled on BA- so just book the darned flight. Oh she was unable to book a flight online, had to be done through a travel agent! Fine- just get on and do it.
Months of prodding follows, always an excuse why it hadn't happened. I remain unclear if the flight ever was booked.
Eventually I agree that I will stay overnight in Glasgow the night before the tour (which is starting in my own County of Cumbria) just to meet her off the plane at Glasgow and escort her into the City, then to the Coach next morning as Glasgow is seemingly too hard to negotiate. (load groans and uncalled for expense).
Meantime I have written a whole bespoked guidebook to accompany us on the tour, of what is to be a meaningful trip back to her heritage. Being a sucker I wanted to make the trip really special for her.
Then get to final payment stage 6 weeks beforehand. And quite suddenly, out of the blue she just cancels, with an excuse of needing to go back to Jordan to check on her apartment there post covid, not for work reasons.
She finally flew out to Jordan the day before the tour!!
We'd even been advance planning a 2022 tour of Lewis and Harris, where a car was deemed to be out of the question, by her- which makes life tricky on those islands.

Was I taken as a sucker? I don't know.

Would I do the same again for someone else, or is it just better to travel solo? Very probably not, and very probably yes.

And the footnote is that they don't have telephones and the internet in Jordan. She hasn't been heard of since, and not only by me, but by others as well.
Rant over.

Wow, oh wow! I can relate with you doing the pre trip planning and being the responsible person in this trio. I went to Scandinavia last year on a RS tour with 2 friends who had Pandemic cabin fever, a trip which ended one friendship while the other friend clearly cannot travel any longer because of memory issues.
Friend 1 bulldozed the other two of us into staying with her because she was afraid of getting lost. I had stated before we left the US that we would all be free to go our own way to follow our interests in our pre tour days and in free time. It didn’t work out like that at all. She is a shopaholic and shops only in the very high end places. I thought to myself this will be a very long trip if I confront her nicely but firmly so I continued on. I did say to her that Sally and I (friend 2) were not interested in shopping but this fell on deaf ears.
Other things she did: made lunch and dinner reservations at restaurants she had researched before the trip, very gourmet cuisine. But this fact also kept us under her thumb, most of the meals were amazing. I give her credit for this but sometimes I just wanted to unwind in my room and eat something light.
Every morning she complained about her room, too warm, not enough towels, etc., you name the complaint, she topped yours. I would say tell the hotel staff, please, not me, I have no control.
She managed to get the bus driver or hotel staff or even other tour mates to take her luggage to the bus. RS makes clear you are to handle your own luggage.
She told me everyday how much she hated RS tours. Finally on the last day I asked her at lunch, please tell me why you signed up. She missed travel so much and she wanted to go with me. End of my saga.
After our return home, she called to say how much she loved the trip and then asked me how I felt. I said I couldn’t say at that moment how I felt because I was still processing everything that happened. That’s the last time I spoke to her even after she left me several voicemails and texts, I simply didn’t respond. This is the first time I have written an account of this trip (I did write a trip report).

For my upcoming RS tour to the South of England, I am traveling solo. Maybe it is best this way. I often wish I had a congenial travel companion but you have to be careful what you wish for as happened to me last year.
I am going to make the best of traveling on my own and talk to strangers and locals and enjoy serendipitous experiences!

Wow! isn31 you “win!” Ugly experience!

Carrie, I commiserate. We can travel with my brother and SIL as long as it does not exceed 2 weeks. After that we become bickering teenagers again. 😜 We have one friend who is a delight to travel with but other have expected me to be the planner and guide and that is TOO. MUCH. WORK. They have fun, I do not.

I don’t envy your dilemma but life is too short to put up with such behavior on your travels.

To add to my comments, my brother and sister in law love cruising so that would not work for me. They are both easy going and we likely would travel well together. I really like immersing myself in the European culture and cruising gives you bites of Europe. My brother loves to see a Broadway show after a nice dinner onboard. Each to his/her own!

Wow, I am so sorry for so many of your trips. Judy B. your original report was wonderful. You didn't let this underbelly ruin your enthusiasm and report. Can we introduce Carrie's BIL to your brother and SIL for a cruise!

Carrie--even with my spouse, I don't choose hotels but I narrow it to two, maybe three and let him choose. I do the same with train tickets, plane routes, etc. The responsibility for the choices became too great for me, so I circled back to the old child-rearing technique of giving choices. We're doing it together. He has never been difficult; I just can't handle the decisions alone anymore.

I don't know how your BIL is in other situations, but he has different needs and a different comfort zone. If you can be frank and he can own his strengths and weaknesses, then you are good to go. If he can't admit who he is but still wants to pretend he's a traveler when he actually just wants a vacation and to be able to watch videos, then you have a problem dealing with him. Everyone has strong points, and travel schedules and continental breakfasts aren't his. Maybe he's famished. You want to be as non-judgemental as possible when talking with him or your sister (even if you are ready to scream).

On the other hand, you need to set your boundaries, even if you were born first and are the older sister. You are three adults now and you don't need to take care of them. Your first job is to take care of yourself. In reality, BIL is sister's problem. He's yours only if your sister doesn't deal with it and he invades your space. Once you figure out your own boundaries and don't try to please or take care of your sister, and can distinguish your problem from her problem and his problem, you'll be good to go. Draw up your plan with your requirements well stated. Don't worry about pleasing others.

My younger kids have boundaries and let us know years ago to respect them. My older kids, try to please. Sometimes I remind them that they don't have to please us but should do for themselves. We love them equally.

Carrie, I’m so sorry that your trip was rained on after all that planning work on your part.

I prefer to travel solo because I need down time on my own every day. I usually change the subject or respond vaguely if someone expresses an interest in joining me for a future solo trip. However I have had good experiences on small group tours (RS and others) shared with a friend (Judy B!) or relative because we have similar travel styles and—crucially—we are each self-sufficient and happy to do things solo during free time.

That said, I am about to do 2 weeks in England with a dear friend of 50 years, on our own. Before deciding to travel together, we shared info to see how our travel styles meshed — daily rhythm, interests, budget, restaurants versus picking something up at the grocery store, class of hotel, how much to schedule each day vs play by ear, how happy we are to do our own thing for a few hours each day, etc. That groundwork is already paying off and I expect that will have an enjoyable trip, especially because we have the kind of relationship where we can address things honestly and without hurt feelings. Fingers crossed that I’m not reporting back to this thread next month!

I’m so sorry you had this unfortunate experience and sadly I can relate to you with experiences on not just one, but two trips. My first trip to Europe was the first time for myself, hubby, siblings and one brother-in-law. We were going for a family reunion with cousins who live in Germany. It started going badly with my sister within the 2nd day of the trip. My sister and I were very close Porto the trip. While the family all went their own ways after our 4 days together, sis and BIL were with us the entire time, which was 3.5 weeks. I won’t go into all the details, but at the end of the trip when we were in London for 5 nights, by the end of our first full day I had had enough. After that we only saw them once intentionally when we met for breakfast and once we ran into them at the Portobello Market. We were staying at the same hotel. They did zero of the trip planning even though I tried to include them. I swore I wouldn’t travel with them again and sadly because of my sister and some of her personal issues our relationship was never the same. Last year we did a trip with another couple. I’ve known her for over 40 years and have had 2 trips to Europe with her, each for 3 weeks. We had a great time and travel well together. I know she’s not an independent traveler and I was okay with that. I also always took her likes and dislikes into consideration. Her hubby had never traveled internationally before, except to resorts in Mexico. I asked them to read guidebooks. I think some of that happened, but not much. We talked about the itinerary, light packing because there would be 4 of us in a car in Ireland and Scotland. That was all fine. I gave them the complete itinerary with hotels, etc., yet the hubby several times texted me asking if we were going to be near X because someone said he must see it. Uhm, no, it’s 200 miles away from where we will be. Do you have a map on your phone? One place we were actually able to work into our schedule. Before we left we had discussed how we would handle when we ate, when we would get going in the mornings, etc. That all went out the window after we arrived. My hubby and I always had to cater to their own different schedules. There were other things too, such as laundry (we stayed at rentals with a washer between hotels and B&B’s) and some other things. I’m a go along to get along kind of person, but I did get annoyed at some things. I kept my mouth shut. Hubby was also annoyed. We were supposed to be with them for 5.5 weeks, then they were flying home from London and we were going to France. When we got to Bath (4 nights) her hubby decided he was homesick and ready to go home. They changed their flights and after the time in Bath they took the bus to the airport to fly home. We still had 4 nights in London before leaving the UK and we weren’t going to have access to a washer for 6 days. My friend insisted that their laundry should be the priority because she didn’t want to fly home with dirty clothes. What? I finally pushed back. All in all we had a good trip, but it won’t happen again. Hubby and I have decided that we will be willing to meet up with someone for a few days, but that’s it. I spent countless hours planning this trip and there was zero acknowledgment of that. I didn’t expect much, but a thanks would have been nice. We are still good friends, but in the future we will travel without others. Life is short and I’m no longer willing to do all the work to make a trip happen, just to have to make all the concessions.

Good luck with your future travels. I agree with the others that just traveling with your sister or solo/with anyone else would be better than including your BIL.

Thanks again everyone!!! This has been extremely helpful. I’m sorry that others have also had less than ideal travel companions. But I have to say, it does make me feel a little better. 😊

This is my plan: I will see my sister on Saturday at my parents’ house. I’m going to suggest that I think her and her husband might be happier with a beach resort vacation next year. I think I’ll also say something about how I think Spain might be a little more challenging for us with the language and food. Maybe at a later date, we can talk about a future trip that will work for all of us.

This way I hopefully don’t have to say, there is no way I am traveling with your husband ever again. 😊 And then I think instead of Spain in march, I will plan a trip to Portugal for just me. I’ll also let me sister know that she is welcome to come on any of the trips I have planned as she can just share my hotel room.

I’ll see how that goes. I will report back. 😊

Carrie--even with my spouse, I don't choose hotels but I narrow it to two, maybe three and let him choose. I do the same with train tickets, plane routes, etc. The responsibility for the choices became too great for me, so I circled back to the old child-rearing technique of giving choices.

Bets, that's so funny! My daughter does that with her kids. One kid cuts the treat into portions and the others get to choose first. i have never seen kids work so hard to make sure every portion is exactly the same, lol!

@Bets,
Thanks for your kind words regarding my trip report last year. I considered including my account of traveling with my two friends (now only one) but I realized my feelings were so raw that my report would end up being about that. The tour is extraordinary and I wanted to do it justice.

@Accidental Southerner,
I enjoy your company while traveling to Europe too.

Carrie,
I remember reading your solo Switzerland trip report and was so impressed. I have been inspired to travel more often on my own based on your reports and other forum posters.
I hope your future trips with your sister will work out smoothly. Your BIL is another story but your sister will have a lot to do with whether he stays home. My brother and SIL are easy going and I think we would be compatible but they love cruising while I decidedly like immersive travel.
Best of luck and keep us updated.

but as she is very private, especially on social media,

Isn't that an oxymoron? Glad the trip went well.

’m going to suggest that I think her and her husband might be happier with a beach resort vacation next year. I think I’ll also say something about how I think Spain might be a little more challenging for us with the language and food. Maybe at a later date, we can talk about a future trip that will work for all of us.

You know your family, but I think I would ask 'what are your travel plans?' vs, 'I think you would be happier with a beach vacation' . Unless you have already announced your travel plans, I wouldn't offer anything about what they are and , without telling lie, be vague about your plans. Put them in the position to have to fend for themselves, rather than tag along with you
( or is it your intent to be a bit 'bossy', so he does not want to travel with you?)

Good Luck

Carrie,
You sure touched a nerve here, based on the quantity of responses. Your experience seems to be more of the norm, than the exception. Thanks for sharing, you provided an emotional outlet for many folks. Pls keep us posted.

Hi Carrie, I can tell from your newest response that you’re wanting to be friendly and keep the peace in the family. That’s very nice! As an impartial reader, I would advise not saying your two sentences I’ve bolded. Otherwise, you’re giving mixed signals. Several months later, you could discuss a girls’ trip and see what your sister says after some time has passed.

“This is my plan: I will see my sister on Saturday at my parents’ house. I’m going to suggest that I think her and her husband might be happier with a beach resort vacation next year. I think I’ll also say something about how I think Spain might be a little more challenging for us with the language and food. Maybe at a later date, we can talk about a future trip that will work for all of us.

This way I hopefully don’t have to say, there is no way I am traveling with your husband ever again. 😊 And then I think instead of Spain in march, I will plan a trip to Portugal for just me. I’ll also let me sister know that she is welcome to come on any of the trips I have planned as she can just share my hotel room.”

Carrie, I've been thinking about your post for the last several days while you have received numerous affirmations that your complaints were not petty; that we all agree with you...and most of us would not have been as kind to the "ugly American" traveler. There's probably not much more I could add to all the words of wisdom from others, but I just wanted you to know that I, like most on this Forum, are hoping that your future trips are not sabotaged by an ungrateful member of your traveling team.

From your post on this Forum, we know how much time and effort you put into your trip; and how generous and kind you are to the readers on this Forum to share information you acquire...just to help others.
It is a fine balance between keeping peace in your close-knit family...and you enjoying each trip you plan.

IF ungrateful complainer ever joins one of your trips, I think, you need to have "alternate suggestions" for each day. For example, in Verona, you could have announced, "I am planning on taking the train to Venice. IF anyone wants to join me, I will be downstairs by 7:00 a.m.. If you are not there, I know you are not joining me. There's a lot to do and see in Verona, so don't feel you have to join me."

Same with breakfast: Lots of "I" messages: "I plan to eat the complimentary breakfast because I want to get an early start. If you want something else, we can meet up later." (even if it means missing the Pope or climbing the Dome). I think "ugly traveler" is an adult and should be capable of being on his own.

It seems that your lodging choices are within walking distances to many locations and eateries...so I think the first thing is, you do NOT have to feel responsible for filling every hour of each day for everyone. They too can read the guidebook!

As for security belt, a male might prefer the Rick Steves' Civita Hidden Pocket. That's what my husband prefers.

And yes, each ADULT should be responsible for his/her own passport. Maybe, you could just research ahead of time, where to go in each city IF Passport is lost or stolen. That way, if it does happen, YOU do not have to waste your time helping someone too stupid to know when someone is trying to be helpful!
I know, not a nice response...but I do not have to interact with that person. So I can say what others who read your post are also thinking!

I know you enjoy planning and traveling on your own...so I think you should continue to travel to places of your choice. Hope all goes well on Saturday at your parents' house.

You have more patience then do

I would not wear a neck wallet but do wear a money belt. However, if someone with me choses NOT to wear it and gets their passport lost then... I can show them how to find the Embassy. (Been there, done that Day 1 of a Girl Scout trip to Europe one of the other chaperones lost wallet with all our traveler's checks and her passport - you can tell how long ago this was can't you) The rest of the group spent the next day sightseeing while she addressed the issue. (No, she'd never been to Europe but the Embassy speaks English so it worked) NO need for you to let it spoil your vacation IMHO

I know this sounds bad but I feel like there's a little bit of "martyrdom" here as you tried to make sure they enjoyed themselves and were responsible adults. I have one friend who when traveling with her family (who are all adults) gives them the "schedule we agreed to" and then they go. If one of the adults wants to sleep in so be it... the rest continue with the schedule. Might be worth trying. So if you have to leave for the Pope at 8 am then he either eats before then or texts you when he gets done and you tell him where to meet (If he can't figure out how to get anyplace well... that will teach him to grow up LOL!)

That said I recently traveled with my best friend. I expect we will stick to beach vacations going forward. I haven't asked her but she probably feels the same way. It's apparent to me at least that over the decades we have known each other our travel styles have diverged.

By the way, for Carrie, I hope your Solo trip next month to the UK goes well, and that it is not affected by any return to rail strikes, should that happen.
Looking at your trip report for Italy I hope your weather forecast is pessimistic and that we have the great May weather we often have!

One thing I have recently decided is that I need to be better about keeping my mouth shut when it comes to mentioning travel plans to people. There have been a few times recently where I have in passing commented on something we are going to do, or at least hoping to do, and the response has been everywhere from someone inviting themselves along or expressing a desire to do so. Depending on what it is I may not mind, but it could be awkward to refuse people if I do mind.

I'm another one who was surprised that my best friend of forty years and her husband have developed a travel style very different from ours. Our hiking, camping days together with the kids have evolved. They are quite the world travelers but higher-end and agency assisted. Since we were meeting up in Barcelona for only a few days. I just said yes to everything. It was an overseas trip for her but a local trip for us, so their wishes prevailed. It wasn't nearly as high-stakes as an overseas trip would be, but I'm surprised at how much our styles have diverged. Now we know.

There have been a few times recently where I have in passing commented
on something we are going to do, or at least hoping to do, and the
response has been everywhere from someone inviting themselves along or
expressing a desire to do so. Depending on what it is I may not mind,
but it could be awkward to refuse people if I do mind.

My daughter is going to the UK with her boyfriend and his brother and their Mom next month. It's a dream trip that the mother has wanted to take her boys on for a long time, and now that my daughter is a significant-other she was invited. After the trip was planned and booked, the mother's sister called to announce that she had bought a plane ticket and was coming too. No discussion, no advanced warning, no hotels booked, she had decided that she would share a room with someone. When the mother told the sister, that this was a special trip and she couldn't come, the sister announced that they no longer had anything to talk about and would no longer be speaking.

My wife has a very good friend who's husband has no interest in travel and so she's dropped hints with us that she wouldn't say no if we invited her along. She's a wonderful person, but both my wife and I think that travelling together may be oil and water. We've decided that we will invite her one day if we take an RS tour, but not an independent trip.

By the way, for Carrie, I hope your Solo trip next month to the UK
goes well, and that it is not affected by any return to rail strikes,
should that happen. Looking at your trip report for Italy I hope your
weather forecast is pessimistic and that we have the great May weather
we often have!

isn31c, thanks! I’m keeping my fingers crossed on the strikes and the weather. I’ve been closely following the posts by you and Nigel about all the recent strikes. My two big train days are May 7th (train from Waverly to York after landing at Edinburgh airport) and May 12 (train from York to Waverly).

Carrie, my daughter was caught in a train strike last August, and because she had to travel that exact day, ended up on two planes and a bus, just getting from Oxford to Edinburgh. She had rented a car, but when she arrived at the rental agency, they had no cars left. It was quite the adventure!
If she could have traveled one day earlier or later, it would have been so much easier! So I guess the lesson here is have plan A and plan B, to allow changing the dates of train travel.
Good luck!

Carrie, I hope you are able to use these helpful suggestions posted here.
I realize how lucky we have been. We traveled on several European trips with good friends. They were still working and we were retired so had the free time to do research and plan. I would ask them broad questions as I created the trips such as town x or town y to stay in, this city or that nearby town?
We also had the best times! They constantly offered to help drive, or cook if in an apartment. Always thoughtful and appreciative. And they gave me a beautiful gift purchased on every trip.
This is to let you know how wonderful it can be
to travel with friends, but make sure you don’t have very different concepts of what the trip should look like or how you like to spend your time. We would always split up in cities to pursue our own interests.

Carrie I'm sorry this happened but I really feel sorry for what your sister apparently deals with on a daily basis. This does NOT mean you should accommodate this man to help your sister and there's no reason for you to be more tolerant of his wrong behavior. As one who has played a part in enabling a sibling's wrong behavior, your sister is enabling his self-centered behavior by allowing it. Maybe she can start to retrain him by assigning him days to cook and things to clean while she is there to teach him the necessary skills. As many on this forum would attest, we all need to have the skills necessary for daily life(and travel) because you never know when you will be on your own.

UPDATE: I had a nice conversation with my sister and we both agreed that the 3 of us traveling to Europe again anytime soon was not a good idea. She recognizes that her husband is not an easy person to travel with. Luckily, i didn't have to say anything negative about him.

So, instead of the March trip to Spain the 3 of us were planning, I think I might do a solo trip to Portugal in March.

Thanks again for all the support and advice.

Carrie, I’m so glad your conversation turned out very well! Have a great time in Portugal!

Carrie,
With 80+ comments here you really did strike a nerve. I'm so glad you had " the talk" and sounds like it wasn't too traumatizing.
I look forward to reading about your future travels, and perhaps following in your footsteps, as we are planning our next year trip to the Low Countries, ( your fall trip), and Portugal is also in our sights.
Peace!

Carrie, I'm glad you have such a reasonable and realistic sister. You should appreciate her!

I am glad you had a conversation with your sister that showed you are on the same page. Now look forward to your UK trip !!

You should appreciate her!

I do. 😊 I’m even going to plan a shorter Portugal trip hoping she might decide to come along.

I hope she does!

Carrie: Just wanted to also say how thankful I am that the conversation with your sister went well. And….no negative comments were necessary.
Positive family relationships (especially between siblings) are priceless.
It seems your sister appreciates your detailed planning for the trips you have done together.

I don't have an annoying BIL. Hubby and i have different style of travelling. Just last year i took my first solo domestic trip then took another trip, joined a group hiking tours. I enjoyed them very much.
We plan a family vacation to Ireland next July, but i think an annual solo trip is a great idea :)

Oh Carrie, it sounds like you and your BIL value VERY different things. And that a value you and your sister share is keeping the peace. Glad you were able to all agree not to put yourselves through that frustration again!

This sounds like traveling with my teenagers... but you know.... they are teenagers.

After our first trip I wrote my son a note about my options for trip planning:
1. I plan everything and have to act as cruise director. You feel uninvested and annoyed.
2. I nag you to help me plan. You help, but we are both annoyed.
3. You participate in planning and you will anticipate it more and enjoy it more... and we can laugh off the stuff that doesn't go to plan because you'll realize we did our best. (And I won't be guessing at what you'd like to do.)

Sounds like your grown family members needed the same ultimatum.

My kids were also groaning every time I had to recalibrate and walk back the other direction with google maps (We're talking steps... not miles... not even yards.) Next trip, I made my son navigate and he was so cute taking charge and pointing things out. He didn't fuss at me when it was my turn after that.

I'm a carer. It's been hard to accept that it's not my fault when people take advantage or are rude. I always think I coulda, shoulda, woulda.... And it's been maybe even harder to realize it is "on me", so to speak, if people act like nothing should be required of them when I've required nothing of them to that point... or, in my case, if I can't relinquish control of careful planning (even if the careful planning is meant to benefit others.) I don't know if it's possible to have the ideal trip with other people there or to have the ideal trip alone... It seems more a pick-your-poison type thing?

I wish your family had employed a bit more empathy, but I doubt they could understand the level of thought and time you put into making sure things went as well as they did. And they may never have an idea of what it's like NOT to have someone do that for them, but for all your sakes, I hope they do.