Travel Style

Not sure if this helps, but I was just in London for a full week (and a day trip to Paris) in December. Weather wasn't warm, but it wasn't really cold either. And only had to deal with light sprinkles during part of one day. Bigger issue was very short days. Tourist sites weren't all that crowded. So, if you dress right, it's just fine.

I am interested to hear the responses. My visit to London was my first. But I managed to cover a lot of the bigger major sites. I wonder how I would approach future visits? Probably hit up the big museums (we didn't do any major museums on the trip). And spend more time on the "side streets". And probably go at a slower pace.

Four thoughts:

If you travel enough, you should feel at home in any city in the world.

The more times you visit a city, the more likely you'll be to stay away from the tourist crap, and then come to really appreciate it.

See something besides the cities and what piddly junk you find on guidebook-inspired day trips.

Combine old and new - - few places in the world are more than a day apart.

Bob,

I routinely re-visit cities that I've been to before, and quite enjoy getting back to places that have a "familiar" feel and where I kind of know my way around. For me, subsequent visits don't provide the same experience as when first discovering a new city, so they have a different "richness".

When going back to a particular city, one thing I often do is try to get to sights that I missed seeing the first time. With each city I visit, I make a list of the sights I want to see listed in order of priority. I rarely get to all of them on one visit, so there are always a few left over for the next time. With cities like London, Paris or Rome, there are so many sights to see that I probably won't ever run out of possibilities.

I also try to get back to favourite haunts that I enjoyed on the first visit, for example a special restaurant or whatever. I also enjoy connecting with people that I've met in the past, such as staff at hotels. One example was a return visit to Florence a few months ago, where I used a hotel that I had last stayed at in 2006. The owner remembered me, and it was almost like my previous visit was just the week before. Little had changed in the hotel, and it was all very familiar and comfortable.

Happy travels!

We've been to London more than 40 times (over the course of 20+ years). We usually went in July or Nov/Dec. Stays ranged from 2 days to 2 weeks. I'd go back there at the hint of a drop of a hat, if I could. Even with that many trips, there are still things I want to see/do and lots more that I want to see/do again. There are LOTS of great day trips you can easily do by train on your own and you can reach just about anywhere in Europe easily by air. We usually would combine London with other destinations in the UK (Cardiff Wales, Edinburgh, Inverness, etc. Scotland, York, and other places in England itself) or Norway (Oslo is great in summer) or Austria (Vienna, Inverness, Salzburg). We also used it as our 'jumping off point' for an around the world trip for hubby's 50th birthday. What I love about London is that it fits any 'mood' you are in... in the mood for art/culture- some of the best museums in the world are FREE. Love history? You have everything from Pictish Princess riding horse drawn chariots, to Roman ruins, WWI and WWII, Irish and Scottish 'clashes', and the rise and 'fall' of the British Empire not to mention all the monarchy stuff. Fascinated with architecture? There's LOTS to see here. Theatre? You can't beat the London scene. Music? Everything is there- from simple folk songs to classical to rock and then some. Love beautiful nature and scenery? Can't beat it- the Cotswold area, the Fens, the Lake District, and on and on.... Into ecclesiastical things- there are more churches and cathedrals and abbeys than you imagine. I could probably list more- just know that London is great at any time. I would love to go in the spring and see some of the gardens in full bloom (I've seen some in summer, but oh-- spring!). And I'd also love to go in the fall and see the leaves, go to a harvest festival and indulge in some wonderful eats. just keep in mind, there's no really bad weather... just poorly dressed tourists. In December, we found the weather to be no worse than we see here in Charlotte, NC. Just a bit more damp and windy. We even enjoyed a light snow fall in the mountains of Scotland. I actually enjoyed some of our winter trips much more than our summer ones. Though even in a record heat wave in late July, I LOVE the UK.

Hi Bob, just to comment on your post. "While many other European cities might be interesting to visit, I wonder if they simply will not measure up to Rome, Florence or Paris". I can assure you, they will! Don't let that worry stop you from going to other places.
Also, as far as waiting to go to England when the weather is warmer - I have been to England twice in the month of April and both times the weather was beautiful. Comfortable enough for either just a long-sleeve top or a light jacket. Go!

Bob:

I'm right with you on traveling in the Fall and in the Spring. Crowds and hot temperatures are not attractive to me, especially since some cities' air conditioning is not up to our standards. Airfares are much cheaper then.

After many trips driving fast and far to as many cities as we can visit, we've now settled into staying outside great cities and doing day trips. We prefer to travel from large city to large city by train, but will take a European budget air carrier if they're going in the direction we're wanting to go. I still get a little antsy after 4-5 days in any place.

We usually go to one or two great European cities on a trip, and fill in with "new" cities. Sometimes we'll visit 3 great cities on our two week trips if they're in the same general vicinity--like Prague/Vienna/Budapest.

But we'll often go back to places we've been many times before and remain comfortable in. Thankfully for me, those are Munich-Innsbruck-Venice, and the scenery between them is breathtaking.

My wife and I are what you would call frugal travelers. We stay in lower price accommodations, but we research them carefully. The internet is a great way to save money. We do not eat in expensive restaurants, are quick to picnic and have been known to cook for ourselves when we have a kitchen. In no way are we suffering by being careful with our money.

It would be nice to go to Europe every year, but that would take some of the "special" out of our trips. In our off years, we're traveling to Canada and Florida, and we take a cheap Caribbean cruise or two every year.

And we don't plan on stop traveling until we cannot physically handle it. But I still want to see New Zealand.

Bob

You posed an interesting question, one that I had been thinking about but had not verbalized. In the past six years I've taken my wife and her mother on two week trips to Italy, Scotland, England and France, yet in each of these trips I found there were things/places that I wanted to do or see but was either overruled by my travel partners or there was not sufficient time to do so. I am in the process of planning a 3-4 week solo trip back to some of the places we visited and others that we did not. I have never made a trip like this by myself and one of my concerns about this one is sort of what you mentioned, or at least implied. Will I be wasting my money on the return trips and will it measure up to the original visits. I also have concern about personal safety as a solo traveler and what do you do when you get lonely. It seems from reading the replies to your post that it will be worth the effort and expense. As for an itinerary, and I'm hoping you and some of your readers will comment. I thought about starting by using as a model the one used on Rick's 21-day Best of Europe, beginning in Amsterdam and ending in Paris, but varying from it from time to time. Money is not an issue and since I recently retired, neither is time. Thank you for putting the question out there and for those of you who responded.

Jim

And the 4th and 5th are just as wonderful. We tend to travel spring and fall, although one of my favorite trips was London in January. With the exception to one city, we have always wished for a return trip to any city we've seen. For us, a return trip means we already have a mental picture of geography, local customs and public transportation. I'm not sure if it is an age thing or the fact we're from the west coast, but on a first trip we're a bit on input overload. Subsequent trips are less stressful.

I can't imagine that you'd be disappointed with new cities, but at the same time I can understand repeated trips too aces you love.

I think anyone can be on "input overload" on their first trip to a new place. Especially one that is more "foreign" than you are used to. Doesn't matter if you come from the east coast, the central part of the country, or the west coast. Doesn't matter much if you are 30 or 50. For me, just going from London to Paris for a day was another "overload" But as you say, subsequent trips would be easier. Next time I go to London, I am more prepared. I have and idea of what is where. I have a better idea on how to get around. I have my Osyter card that is ready to tap into a turnstile. There was so much stuff I DIDN'T see. I want to go back. Do I go back to London again at the expense of seeing something else? Like more time in Paris? Or Rome? Or to Germany? Or maybe, I go "the other way" and go to Tokyo. Or Australia. So hard to decide!!

I agree with the other posters with regard to the fact that in many cities, you can't see everything even if you stayed for a month. I've been to Amsterdam 3 times and each time, I visit new places within the city. I still haven't been to the hidden 17th-century Catholic church or the Stedelijk Museum, for example. It's always hard for me to choose between places I've been and new places I want to see.

This is why my trips are so long! I love going back to places, and adding some new ones. I love being remembered by hotel staff, and if I find a good hotel I keep going back.

My return strategy is to spend more time doing less touristy things, and seeing the things I missed before. But I also return to favorite sites, like the Accademia and San Marco museums in Florence.

In 3 trips to Europe, I've managed to squeeze in Venice all three times, London/Portsmouth 3 times (well, we fly into/home from London and my sister lives in Portsmouth, so she always gets a visit), Paris and Cinque Terre twice. (And Boston 3 times). We always manage to see something we missed from earlier visits, and many places we've seen only once are on a return wish list for the future. My only disappointment was our return visit to Cinque Terre- first time in 2008, return 2012...it was way more crowded and just...I don't know, the crowds just put a damper on things.

But on first visits to cities, I try to hit the big highlights, then on subsequent visits (if the first visit whetted our appetites to return), we like the lesser known sites...in London, we did the Museum of London on our 2nd trip (which was way more interesting then I expected)...the third trip we just wandered the city - going to see the 'Gherkin' and Leadenhall Market, meandered about Hyde Park, did the Science Museum. I actually like returning to places (Venice especially) as I like the familiarity - knowing how the transit system works...revisiting that great restaurant...none of the anxiety of trying to figure things out for the 1st time. We are hoping to return to Boston (#4) and New York (2nd visit) this year and if I can convince hubby to go over during the holidays, we will have our 4th visit to London and 3rd to Paris and 2nd to Strasbourg.

Every place has it's own unique 'thing'. As much as I enjoyed visiting Rome (only once, but again someday), Florence (only once, ditto) and Paris...I would never give up my visits to Venice (my fav) or Strasbourg, or the south of France or Northern France (I would be hard pressed to decide which to visit again between N and S France - both amazing in their own way) or Switzerland (my fav country - gorgeous scenery) or Salzburg...Europe is so vast, I don't know how anyone could just pick one city or country and never see any more of it. I have so many places on my wish list, I don't know if I'll ever get to all of them. I do like to mix in places already seen with new places on every trip.

And as an edit - to what Ken said - we stayed in the same place in Venice all three times- even the same room as we like the familiarity. We couchsurf and have stayed with the same couple in London all 3 trips - like visiting my sister, a trip to England isn't complete without visiting them. It's the comfort of routine/familiarity while travelling to help things be not so overwhelming.

I tend to go wherever and whenever I can... and as often as I can. Sometimes my trips are dictated by who I am traveling with, or if traveling alone, where I can get the best priced flight, or whatever else influences me at the moment. I do like returning to certain places, but I also love adding new places each time I travel. If I do travel to the same location I will try to do it at a different time of year, thus giving me the opportunity to see the city in a different season. I really do not want to try to recreate some of my previous trips as there is no way they could compare to that first time. Just flying into a familiar city and staying for a few days will give me a chance to see some of the sights I missed. Then on to something exciting and new!

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I like the idea of combining something "old and new" on a trip to Europe. For example, it would be nice to visit Paris, Florence or Rome again and combine with one other city not too far away (i.e. half-day train ride). Any suggestions?

@ Bob,

My first trip to London was in march and the weather was great for me. I noticed the following year, they had more winter weather along with other places i had visited. So, in my opinion, the weather can be a crap shoot no matter where and when you go.

as far as visiting someplace ive been to, i cant say ive been doing that since my "style" is to try and pick one city in a country and see what i can, but not everything unless it just happens that way. Also, im sure im missing things eventho they maybe small or something i may not think about at the time.

But ive been going back to London and spending time just wondering or doing a 1 or 2 day trip outside of London. My last time i went to Leeds to check out the other part of the "armory" there. The rest of the time was just chilling and wondering thru Leeds and some of the other museums and pedestrian places.

Since ive been using Amsterdam as my hub, ive been staying overnight to/from my trips too. Eventho its only over night, i still will wonder around and try different places to stay and see how their location is compared to the town and airport. I would like to stay outside of AMS, but at this time, im happy with the city or close to the train to the airport. Once i get a better feeling on the train, i will probably go outside of town and start looking/staying there.

to me i can see how one could say "been there, done that", but when it really comes down to it, one cant really do and see everything. Of couse it would depend on what too.

just so you know after my first time in London and Paris, my trip last year was sort of down hill from there and i felt like...is that all? but when you compare places, you cant help be feel let down. So i still plan on doign and seeing other places since they will have something different to offer.

also, i save the AMS or London part for last of my trip for my chilling time. There are things to do and see in each place for me, but im in no hurry to do them. Ive sort of made them both my home away from home so to me if im just chilling or wondering around, its no big deal.

your milage may vary (ymmv) and happy trails.

I have been traveling since I was 20, each year exploring a new place. A few years ago I took a trip to France and Belgium. I had such a wonderful time in Belgium that I returned a year later. It was nice to be remembered by the hotel staff and by the staff at the restaurant I frequented on my last trip. It felt like catching up with old friends. They remembered where I loved to sit and what I liked to drink. I walked new routes, revisited things I had already done and seen things I missed the first time. There is always that fear that the second or third trip may not hold the same feelings. I was afraid that my second trip to my favorite Belgian city would be boring, but I found it just as magical as the first time I was there. This year, I promised myself I'd go somewhere different. There are plenty of European cities still left to visit and Belgium will always be there. I don't worry that another place won't live up to it because I believe every city is beautiful in their own way.

In regards to travel time, I'm an offseason junkie, so I prefer to travel between November-late February. The idea of having less crowds makes it more appealing. I don't mind if there are shorter hours at monuments, museums, etc. because I'm the type of person who could careless if I don't see one major "attraction" while I'm in the city, as long as I'm there, I'm good. To me, its more appealing to get more hours of lit up Paris in the winter than only seeing it for an hour during the summer :)

We will frequently go back to a city or area that we have been to before. Although I love the "struggle" of learning a new transportation system, learning the dos and don'ts, and the stress that can come with learning your way around a new place, going to a place again gives me a level of comfort that I enjoy tremendously! This summer we spent half the summer in Switzerland, a new place for us, and the other half in England, where we have travelled extensively. We went back and settled into a London suburb we already knew, and then spent time in the Lake District for the umpteenth time. It was restful and wonderful to just pick up where we left off last time, settle in, go to places we love, and feel like we were part of these places again. We see the same shop owners, some who recognize us now, especially in more remote places in Europe where Americans don't frequent...there's a little valley in the Dolomites where the same inn owner just calls us "die Americanerin!" (sp?) now when he sees us come back. Making connections like this makes travel my favorite drug!

I think that as a citizen of this planet it's important to put down roots in multiple places...makes you a more well-rounded person and gives you a deeper sense of the world as a good place to be!

Hello Bob. In the book Rick Steves' ITALY, he said : Italy is appreciated more in a second visit. I think that applies to Italy more than to Germany and some other countries in Europe.

Sometimes I pick places that I've visited before. I particularly like Berlin for that, probably because it is a city undergoing fast transformation, instead of an open-air museum that never changes. Berlin has always something new and exciting going on, the city changed a lot last 6-7 years.

A good strategy for longer trips is to mix up some locations you like and are familiar with from previous trips with new ones. It strikes a nice balance.

Something I never repeat, though, are restaurants. I like to find new restaurants whenever I can, something that has become easier with more widespread use of review sites in Europe like Dining City.

Maybe I just missed it, but it didn't look like any one recommended Athens and Greece. How strange…. I went to Greece the first time in March for spring break. It wasn't 80 degrees, but it was a lot warmer than Germany! :) I was based in Athens and did a lot of day trips--Delphi, Mycenae, Corinth, Sounioun. I went back in summer a few years later and traveled to the islands. But I bet Crete would be a good bet even if some of the smaller islands aren't ready for tourists. Ask on the Greece forum. :) We went to Corfu after Athens in March and had a great time. And yes, after Corfu, it was Italy. :)

Pam

While it may be true that you don't get the same Wow factor on the second visit to a place, I love the comfort of revisiting a town or city that I like. Somehow it makes me feel more of a local to go back to the corner shop or sit and have a coffee in the town square again.

One thing we have tried is staying at a B&B in Palestrina. a half hour train ride outside of Rome. We were able to experience small town Italian life, explore the local countryside and visit Rome as a day trip. It was nice being able to escape the hustle and bustle of Rome at the end of the day. The cost of staying and dining in Palestrina was a fraction of the cost experienced in Rome.

Hi Bob,

As to your request for suggestions of mixing the "old and new" - for Paris, combine that with a trip to Provence. For Florence, combine that with a tour of Tuscany or the Cinque Terre. For Rome, combine that with a trip to the Amalfi Coast.

I think to really "see" a city you need to visit it at least twice - and for those cities that you fall in love with - I don't think you can ever visit them too many times. Case in point - making my 6th trip to London - I always find something new to discover and enjoy. While the "excitement" of discovering a new place isn't there, there are definite benefits - being able to really relax and simply enjoy the city without the challenges of figuring out the logistics.

I was thinking about combining Paris (2nd visit) with Amsterdam (1st visit). We will probably use Aer Lingus or Icelandair for our next trip. These airlines offer open jaw tickets covering Paris and Amsterdam. The two cities are only a few hours apart by train. Since it doesn't matter which leg of the open jaw flight comes first, I was thinking that going to Paris first would be better since it is familiar and would be less stressful after the transatlantic flight. Any opinions?

It's quite valid to say that the more often you visit a city, the greater the chance that you feel at home with the place and that applies also to airports. Before the last few trips I did not know London Heathrow at all although I had seen travel articles in magazines giving it highest praise as among the world's best. True, I find that to be the case. The other airports I use Paris CDG and FRA are also airports I'm well used to. But the negative comments/aspects of say CDG are sometimes true but in the end, so what, just get use to it.

I've been traveling to Europe for over 40 years now, since my first at 21, and it grows on you. I knew after that first trip, primarily to Germany, I was infected with the travel bug. As others have pointed out here, the traveling involves a combination of returning to old places as well as introducing yourself to the new. Certain cities I go back to on every trip, factored in as regards to time, distance, etc: Paris and Berlin. Vienna is also on the list since I rediscovered it a few years ago. Just strolling in any of these three cities is simply great. For me the summer months, starting in May to Sept. are the traveling months, apart from the heat, crowds, etc.

When you do revisit a city for the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time, it's almost always easier since you know where you're going; some are like a magnet pulling you back, such as Paris, and alot of places in France, the same with places in Germany such as Potsdam, Berlin, Lübeck, Dresden, etc.

My style (if that can be nailed down) is that I travel more budget style, ie, prefer staying in small hotels, sometimes hostels, (not the HI ones), Pensionen 10-15 rooms, won't pay extra for AC, since that's exactly what the hotel wants you to do, willing to take night trains between France, Germany, Austria or Denmark, Of course, if a 6-7 story 4-5 star hotel offers a price comparable to that of a room at a Pension, I'm not going to turn that down. Key to traveling is pacing onesself on time, the expenses, your energy level, etc.

Are you only interested in visiting cities? If not, then I would suggest going to Normandy or Provence, just to add a little diversity to your trip. Countryside, villages and some beautiful scenery, as well as the cities.

I have been to London many times - and I never get tired of it! I usually go in the summer but I have been there in October and in that particular year, the weather was very warm. I have been to Rome, Florence and Paris and much prefer London because there is so much to do. I think there is considerably more to do in and around London than in Rome, Florence or Paris. London has incredible museums, both art and history and fantastic theatre. My second and third visits were better than my first because I was more familar with the City and all it had to offer. There are many day trips that you can do out of London as well - check out www.walks.com for guided walking tours that are very reasonable. I hope you consider London on your next trip!

London might be a good pairing with Paris. The last time I was in London was 1972, and my wife has never been there. Regarding the idea of pairing a familiar city with a new one, is it better to visit the familiar one first or the other way around? With pairings such as Paris-Amsterdam or Paris-London, multi-city air itineraries would make it possible to start in Paris (familiar) or Amsterdam/London (new).