Travel Itinerary feedback needed (for a newby travellers with teenagers)

I'll comment on what I know...

It seems like an awful lot of cities, except England and the Alps.

Speaking of the Alps, Interlaken is out of your way. It would be a better use of your time just to hit the mountains that lie directly between Munich and Venice. Meaning, the Bavarian, Tyrolian, Ortler and Dolomite Alps. I would recommend spending all three days you have alloted at one location. This gives you a good buffer against bad weather wiping out one of the days.

Rather than thinking in terms of "days" at each location, think in terms of "nights". That way, it forces you to consider transit times between destinations. For example, Paris then "2 days" in Brussels, then "2 days in Amsterdam". Does this mean that you leave Paris in the morning, arrive in Brussels then leave the next day? Or does this mean you have two full days in Brussels, which would equal three full nights?

Also, Berlin to Munich is a very long travel day. Consider flying, or adding a stop somewhere in between (you mentioned "4 flying days" but I'm not sure where they fall).

Start with a good guidebook for first-timers (RS excels at this). What you decide to see in your limited time in each city depends on your interests. A guidebook will let you know what's out there.

Fast trains or cheap inter-European flights are your best options for travel, generally. For five people, trains might actually be better if you can get some super-economy tickets well in advance (note thst these are for reserved seats on specific trains, if you miss your train you will have to buy five full-fare tickets).

If you can get your daughters to let you know what they want to do/see, you will all have a better trip.

After England you will have a full month's worth of mostly 3 nights stays. That is really hard to handle - brutal really - especially if you're not used to traveling and particularly if you have young teens/kids. A 2 year-old's tantrum because we have stressed them too much is nothing on a young teen's shouting match when she's had enough...

From experience of traveling several weeks at a time (including with my son as he grew up), here's my advice:

Eliminate at least a couple of stops and make sure that you have one week in the 30 days (second part of the trip), when you can stay put for 7 nights. Look to rent an apartment where you can spread out, do laundry and prepare simple meals a couple of times - just to restore a bit of balance. Choose a place where interesting day trips, using public transportation and readily available tours, can be built in.

My suggestions for a one week stay:

Munich would be a good choice for this, as the Bayern tickets are cheap and tailor-made for groups traveling together regionally. You can easily daytrip to small Bavarian towns, do a "spa" day at one of the thermal water parks, head to Salzburg for a day, etc..

Florence would be an excellent bet - with lots of apartments and easy day trips & things to do (a Tuscan cooking class, Pisa, Siena, etc.).

Even though you'll still be doing a lot of stuff, a much longer stay in one place will have a more relaxed feel, as you come "home" every night for that week.

From your count, I see that you took your flying days out of your itinerary above, As Tom mentioned, put them back into your overall plan, but count them as nights - this will become much easier for you to manage, esp. when it comes time to nail your stays.

Paris, Amsterdam (for Anne Frank), Prague, Munich, Venice, Florence and Rome would be the ones that I would for sure retain in your itinerary. Of these, you could get away with 2-nights stays in Amsterdam and Venice, IMO. Instead of the Interlaken, I'd maybe add Innsbruck for a couple of nights (or as a day trip from Munich), if you want to experience the Alps.

Since it's likely that the two couples would return to Europe (and the kids on their own later), focus on this trip being enjoyable and having an easy pace that the girls can adjust to better. This trip can be as much about the experiences that you will live as a family, as the places that you will be seeing.

Have fun!

1. Vary the tempo. Have at least one other week-long stay partway though your trip to recharge and break things up.
2. Vary the texture. Leaven those cities with more countryside. Especially in the fall!
3. Involve the teens (and everyone else) in planning. Everyone reads a different guidebook and makes suggestions. Everyone gets some things they want in the itinerary.
4. Newbies are rarely nimble, and you've got a fast-paced itinerary. Prepare by reading Europe Through the back Door and scoping out logistical issues. Maybe slow things down a little too.
5. Think nights, not days. If 2 days in Amsterdam is one night, then you do not have 2 days. Arriving at noon and departing at noon the next day = 1 day. Be realistic.

For countryside consider Tuscany, Provence, Scotland. For travel be multi-modal if appropriate. Take trains from region to region; rent a car to explore a single region and visit small villages; consider flying where the train will take more than 6 hours.
Oh yeah

1. To have a great trip tomorrow, be brutally honest today about what are true priorities and what is truly possible.

Hi Wendy, what a wonderful opportunity for your family! We took our three teens to Europe when they were that age - of the cities you mentioned above, they have seen Paris, Rome, Berlin, Amsterdam and Florence (not all on one trip). Far and away the favorite of theirs was Berlin. We rented an apartment in a communist-era building and stayed for several days. Tons to do and they loved seeing the Wall and learning more about life under Communism. They also enjoyed Rome and two of the three enjoyed Amsterdam (one is not a city person and found it too crowded). We found that the Dutch Resistance Museum made a fantastic companion to the Anne Frank House - we went to the museum before our house visit and it enriched our experience. My daughter is the only one to visit Paris and she loves it! We spent an entire day shopping and had the best time, so if your daughters like to shop maybe plan in some shopping time! None of my children enjoyed Florence - we spent two weeks in Tuscany for a family anniversary trip, and they were bored of all the art and churches lol. But they loved riding bikes along the wall in Lucca and chilling by the pool at our villa! I second the opinion to plan a longer stay in your second month somewhere - you will also be glad of the chance to decompress and catch up on sleep and just feel settled for a bit. We had some wonderful adventures by letting our teens help with the planning, but what they wanted to do didn't always fit in with our sightseeing plans. The day they planned in Berlin, we went to the zoo (the younger two raced around like lunatics trying to take a picture with every animal, while my older son and I sat on a beautiful bench and enjoyed a good book for two hours lol), then they found an all-mystery bookstore with lots of books in English and we browsed there, then went to a specialty hot chocolate cafe with 20'ish different types of hot cocoa and had a snack, and ended up at a Bier garden for the evening. I would never have visited those places if my kids hadn't been with us, and yet it was one of our best days in Berlin! We also split up one day - my daughter and I went to the East Side Gallery, and the boys and my husband went to the video game /computer museum. Our family trips have been wonderful - enjoy this wonderful adventure!!!

Hi Wendy,

I agree with others that planning a bit more breathing room will make the trip better for the teens (and for the rest of you!) My kids were 15 and 13 when we took them to Europe the first time, and some of the things they loved best were just wandering around, poking around in bakeries and small shops, people-watching in squares and piazzas in the evening -- just seeing how other people live in different parts of the world. We also put them in charge of navigating us around cities some of the time -- heading out the door with the map and choosing our walking routes to get to the attractions we were visiting -- they really enjoyed that. I also echo what others have said about planning some apartment time. Having a one-week stretch is great, but I'd also plan one or two 4-night stretches and make those apartments too. Having space to spread out, have a little separation from each other, do some laundry, cook a simple meal or two, letting the teens sleep in a morning or two -- priceless.

I think you'll find that the moving around gets very tiring -- figuring out the train stations, getting to the train stations -- the travel part is fun but mentally and physically wearing, so you might want to reduce your moving around a bit. I know it's tempting to try to cram everything in, but we figured that our kids were more likely to want to travel again in Europe (either with us or later, on their own), if they had time to enjoy being places, not just getting to places. Packing and unpacking so frequently starts to feel like real work after a while. When I was a college student and traveled on my own or with friends and a backpack, frequent moves were no big deal because we had hardly anything with us. It's different now! Adjusting to new languages can be tiring too. You might want to limit yourself to one country a week for this trip -- you won't get everywhere, but you'll make other trips.

Hope you have a great time.

Option 2 seems better. Save Spain for another trip. I agree with a couple of the points made so far. On a long trip one needs a "vacation from the vacation" for just staying put for some days. After Paris you'll be on the go every couple of days until after Munich. Find someplace to light for 4-5 days then. Interlaken does seem out of the way. Salzburg is on the way to Venice via rail with much to recommend it. Maybe take a day from England and add it to the Alps days there. Looks like a great trip.

"Slow down you move to fast, you got to learn to make the moment last!"
England and Paris seems right, but then you are off at a gallop. Focus on creating memories, not transportation experiences. My two cents: after Paris take high speed train to Barcelona and spend 5 days. Fly to Rome and spend four days, train to Florence for three days and train to Venice for three days and end in Munich with time for day trips through out the region. October in Munich is Octoberfest.

This provides a great breath of experiences at a manageable pace. Highly recommend you rent apts due to additional space to spread out, better costs, a kitchen and sometimes a washer. At all costs pack less then you need! I travel with daughters and on our first trip made them lug everything they packed. Subsequent trips drastically reduced their load. Everything you think you need to bring can be purchased in Europe! Allow the girls to bargain hunt for clothes in each city. These will become cherished wearable memories which also can be worn stateside to draw the envy of friends. Mom's can do the same only with shoes purchased from each city. Dad's have the memory of paying the bill. ;)
For this long of a trip allow each person to have some time on their own, otherwise you will be at each others throats after 10 days of being together 24/7. Sept and October are our favorite months to travel, in fact we will be back in Spain this October. You will encounter glitches which naturally come with travel. Relax and make some lemonade. Do your research on pick pocket awareness, but don't be paranoid. Just ask each other to stay aware of keeping an eye on each other, especially in crowded places.

Keep in mind this is the first of more trips to come and this attitude will keep you from feeling the need to hustle everywhere. Sit back and absorb the culture, not the sights.

Enjoy!

There is good advice here. Take into account also that weather in September and October in Europe is completely unpredictable. If you've only one day in Amsterdam (2 nights) and it's raining, it's not going to be much fun.

Be realistic about travel time. How long is it going to take to get everyone packed and out of their hotel rooms? Do you want to take early morning trains (no traffic to the station), but you'll have to skip breakfast, have it on the train. Or leave your bags at the hotel, spend the day sightseeing, then return to pick them up and get to the station for an evening train (and a picnic dinner).

Think about logistics, too. You are going to have to shop for stuff - feminine products, shaving cream, hand lotion, whatever, in a foreign country, where everything is labeled in French, or Italian or German, but not in English. What about laundry? Are yo all up to rinsing things out every other night in the sink for a month? 2 day stays don't allow for laundry service and coin-ops take time.

For a start, I'd erase Belgium and Spain. Then I'd use the German train website bahn.de for train schedules with a map in front of you. Lastly, train travel isn't cheap. Stay longer in fewer places, and you'll have a better trip.

Research and engage your daughters in the planning process [add emphasis]. Of the two options, the second is preferable in my opinion, but would drop Brussels and Prague. Use a decent map of Europe to plot your itinerary and tweak as appropriate. I use Skyscanner.com to find some intra-Europe flights. See http://www.seat61.com/ for great train information. I'd encourage you to schedule a couple of rest periods in quieter locations with limited itinerary giving everyone a time to refresh minds and bodies. For one such, I love the Lauterbrunnen Valley. Rick Steves' related guidebook has much information that is helpful. Note that a fair number of responders on the Forum have much travel experience in Europe and offer great advice, but tend to limit their travel once in Europe to savor a smaller number or even just one location during their visits, projecting their preferences in their responses. As a different approach, I generally plan faster paced and more varied (geographically) trips.

Whatever you decide in the end be sure to have the kids write in a travel journal. It will be priceless to them in the end. Whether it is a whirlwind trip or a slower pace you tend to forget what you did yesterday.... it is such intense living. I made a jurnal for my grandkids when they started traveling with me (I always wrote in a journal for myself) and I made it as sort of a Trip Log. It is really a 'fill in the blank' type of journal to keep track of where they have been and what they have seen, as well as additional pages for further journal writings and sketches, etc. I made them fill it out every night, and if we ever forgot a day even they were amazed at how hard it was to remember what we had done only a day earlier:)) It gives them a bit of focus on what to write (memorable meals, memorable moments, best thing they saw that day, etc.) If you PM me I can probably send you a copy of what I did, or you can just make up your own. Have a great trip!

Hi Wendy---like everyone else I will say you are moving too fat and have two many stops. Think in terms of nights at palace, not days. For four days in Paris, you have to spend five nights there. You will be traveling on Days One and Five. Even if you keep your rail journeys short, under four hours, it takes time track up, check out of the otel. Travel,to,the train station, and then reverse all that at the other end.

I am going to suggest a route that does not include everything you listed, but makes sense in terms of travel time and places most worth seeing. I know you are coming from Australia and want to " see it all" but if you try, you will be tired of traveling by your fourth stop. I did leave in Swiss Alps as that was on both your proposals, and is one of our daughters' favorites.

So after 9-10 nights in England, I suggest something like this:

Eurostar train to Paris, spend 5 nights ( look into apartments)

Train to Munich. This is a 6-hour journey and personally I would break that up with an overnight stop someplace charming. Strasbourg in Alsace would work.

Three-four nights Munich, with daytrip to the fairy-tale castle

Note that Oktoberfest begins September 20. Lodging prices nearly double, so you may want to avoid that.

Direct train Munich to Zurich, transfer tomLucerne, spend two nights.

Train to Interlaken and transfer to Lauterbrunnen, 20 minutes away. Much more in the mountains, and much nicer scenery. Spend 3-4 nights. You will want Swiss railpasses for the adults if you want to right the cablecars and Jungfrau train. The kids will ride free with a Family Card that comes with a pass.

Train to Milan to spend one night. This is a longish day but you will be busy making all the train changes. You go go via Lucerne and spend a night there to break up the journey. The Spiez-Brig route doesn't really have good overnight options unless younwant to detour 15 minutes from Brig to a little alpine village high above the valley, reached by cablecars. Bettmeralp or Fiescheralp.

Train Milan to Venice and spend three nights. This is a good time to see Venice, usually with nice weather.

Train to Florence for two nights. Train to Rome for whatever is left ( four nights, I think).

Use the German rail site, Bahn.de, to see the routes and schedules. It works for all of Europe. You will have to buy your tickets on the different country rail websites. Bahn.de offers great discounts for advance purchase on trains that originate or end in Germany. Use Trenitalia or Italo for the trains in Italy. You can investigate Swiss rail passes on this website.