I am going to be traveling to Europe. We will be renting a car and we'll be camping. I don't know if where we are camping has electricity. I was wondering if anyone has purchased a travel hair dryer with a car charger, so I can use it in the car.
Thank you
It's possible that such a product exists (never had any reason to check), but it's highly unlikely that you'll find a Hair Dryer with a "car charger". You could travel with a Powr Inverter but hair dryers are high wattage appliances and you'd need an Inverter with sufficient capacity, which would not exactly be a small or light travel accessory. An Inverter large enough to power a hair dryer would also NOT be capable of connection via a lighter plug. It would have to be connected directly to the battery with about #8 or #10 wire (which is not exactly small).
As you're camping, you may have to forget the hair dryer and go with the more "natural" look.
Let's say the hair dryer is 1500 watts, which would be a low powered hair dryer. The car battery puts out 12 volts, so you would need at least 125 amps from the battery to whatever you used (inverter) to get 125 volts to the dryer! I don't think most cars are fused for that high an amperage.
Here is a 12 volt hair dryer on Amazon. Note, it's only 180 watts! Most hair dryers are closer to 1800 watts. Read the reviews. "It produces no heat at all."
Time for a new wash and wear haircut!
I'd be careful plugging in a relatively unknown attachment into a rental car power supply-you can be sure you will get the bill from the rental company if that does not go well.
Plugging into a rental car will be no different than plugging into your own car. European cars and Am cars have the exact same electrical system. The issue is as pointed out by Lee is that a 12 volt car electric system doesn't have much power.
You might consider an alternative - tie it back, pony tail, braids, a hat, a scarf, put it up...
I have never camped in Europe, but if they have bathrooms with a flush toilet, I'd imagine they would have an electrical outlet. Maybe that would require a larger campground.
I do have a camping book for Germany- called Stellplatzfuhrer -in it they show many icons for bathrooms, showers, etc and it looks like many campgrounds come with a lot of amenities.
Just make sure you take a hairdryer with 220 volt, most "travel" hair dryers will offer 110/220 just with turning a knob, and an adapter, and you should be fine......I think!
"most "travel" hair dryers will offer 110/220 just with turning a knob, and an adapter, and you should be fine......I think!"
US hair dryers almost exclusively come with a "polarized" plug (one blade wider than the other), which is necessary to have UL approval. But except for Switzerland and maybe France, European power is not polarized, so some of the safety required by UL is lost. Also, the 2 pin EuroPlug adapters most people use in Europe is only approved over there for 2½ amps (575W), far less than the power of a normal hair dryer. And US hair dryers don't carry the CE symbol, so they shouldn't be used in Europe (it would be like someone from China coming to the US with a hair dryer that wasn't UL approved).
Bottom line, if you have to have a hair dryer in Europe, buy one over there, or use the one provided by the hotel.
If you have to use your US hairdryer over there, and I am not recommending you do, never leave it plugged in unattended.
I've used my "travel" hairdryer in several countries with no issues, ever. Just make sure it has the dual volt and choose the European 220 volt on the hairdryer, and of course use the European adapter.
The " you should be fine......I think " comment I made was referring to whether the bathroom will have electrical, not over concern for using a hairdryer from the U.S. in Europe.
I'm certainly not an electrician, but have always used mine fine, and my friends do the same. I believe they are advertised to use abroad. Maybe these are new Lee? I really don't know.
I'm not an electrician either, but I am a mechanical engineer who has designed equipment with UL and CSA approval and for CE, and I know the requirements. European electrical service and US electrical service are different, and although US appliances are safe on US electrical service, they are not always safe on European service. If you have used a US hair dryer with a 2 pin Europlug, adapter you've violated European codes because the EuroPlug is only rated for 2½ amps. For years people in this country got away with putting a penny under the fuse, but that didn't make it right.
UL approved devices with polarized plugs are designed for use in polarized receptacles, and, except for Swiss receptacles (and apparently some new French ones, European receptacles are not polarized. Some years ago, my house nearly caught fire because the builder had cut corners buy using non-UL exhaust fans (probably from Mexico), contrary to building codes.
"I believe they are advertised to use abroad."
They might advertise them for use abroad, but unless they bear the CE symbol they are not "legal" in Europe.
Lee, some techie stuff in case you are interested.
British plugs and sockets are polarised, there is no such thing as a 2-pin British plug. Even phone chargers are 3-pin, but the earth pin is plastic!
2-pin "Euro-plugs" can go in either way and are not polarised. But 3-pin French and Swiss plugs are polarised and will only go into the socket one way. Schuko (German) and Italian 3-pin plugs are symmetrical, and will go in either way. I was told once German household suppliers are centre-tapped, each wire being 110 V but 180° out of phase, so there is 220V between the wires, but only 110V between each wire and earth. So neither is "neutral".
But, hair dryers sold here usually have 2-pin plugs, I guess 2.5 Amps x 230 volts = 580 Watts is deemed enough.
To get back to yakn_girl's question. There is no way a car 12V socket could supply enough power. Campsites probably have sockets (women have hair in Europe too, and men have shavers). I would recommend picking up a cheap dryer when you arrive, then it will be the correct voltage and plug.
Chris, thanks for the information. I had already found or surmised most of it, but it's nice to have conformation.
I already knew that the British plug have to have a grounding post, even if it is just plastic. The conductor openings are shuttered and are only opened by the grounding post being inserted.
I have a machine drawing, with dimensions, of the Swiss receptacle, and it shows which conductor socket is supposed to be neutral. Because of the offset grounded socket, a plug can only be inserted one way, and polarization can be assured.
Likewise, polarization of the French receptacle can be assured, but I understand that the codes have not always specified how they are to bewired, so on older installations, you cannot count on the neutral being in the right place.
Lastly, the German Schuko receptacles. What you described is the way 230V service in the US is wired, with a neutral and two 115V hot conductors 180° out of phase to get 230 between hot conductors. But I had heard that German service is a neutral and a 230V conductor, like the French, but because of the bilateral symmetry of the plug, polarization cannot be assured. I might have to take a volt meter with me to Germany next trip.
I have seen hair dryers in Germany with grounding Schuko plugs. I presume these are higher wattage than what one could get with a 2½ amp type C plug. Ironically, it needed a plastic "key" to change the voltage, and the owner of the pension had not removed the key.
It's important to note that US electrical service is now 125V. So if you get X amount of heat from your hair dryer here, if you change the switch from "110 volts" to "220" volts, putting half the heating elements in series with the rest, they will only see half of 220 or 110 volts. Since heating is proportional to the voltage squared, the heating element will only produce 77% of the heat it would in the US. That's one reason people say that US hair dryers don't work well in Europe, and another reason to buy one over there.
Chris F,
"I was told once German household suppliers are centre-tapped, each wire being 110 V but 180° out of phase, so there is 220V between the wires, but only 110V between each wire and earth."
I'm not so sure about the wiring you described for Germany, with each conductor being 180˚ out of phase. Standard three-phase generation provides a 120˚ phase difference between the three conductors, so 180˚ doesn't make sense.
Based on research I've done on European electrical systems, three-phase power is supplied to homes from a Delta-Wye distribution Transformer, along with a neutral / ground (earth). However the mains sockets only consist of one phase, a neutral and a ground. The voltage level between the hot conductor and neutral is a nominal 230 V. Perhaps Germany does things differently?
The North American system also operates on a single-phase system. The distribution transformers (also usually a Delta-Wye connection) are "tapped" off one phase of the distribution lines (typically 25 kV these days). Electrical utilities try to keep the number of transformers on each phase about equal, in order to balance the load. The secondary winding of the transformer is centre-tapped, with the centre tap being at neutral / ground potential. The voltage from either side of the secondary (typically marked red & black) to neutral will be a nominal 110 V. and and between both hot leads will be a nominal 220 V.
In any case, connecting a Hair Dryer to a "car charger" is likely NOT going to be possible.
Everywhere I have lived uses a 230V transformer on one leg of a delta system with the center tap connected to ground, so that the two ends (phases) are 115 to 125 volts vs ground, one + when the other is - (that is, 180° out of phase with each other). And the difference is 230 volts.
In some places, I believe NYC is one, the service is two legs of a 115 - 120 volt, Wye system. In these system, the legs are 120° apart. That gives 120 volts to neutral and 208V (120V x 2 x sin 60°) leg to leg. These system result in a low voltage conditions with 230 volt motors and they burn up.
Lee,
The systems I described are (from what I remember) typical for this area, and I can appreciate that other areas may use different wiring methods to achieve the same thing. The net result is that most / all of North America uses ~120 V. I can see where motors designed for 230 V. would have a problem at 208 V., as the current draw would be higher which would cause heating.
I'm still thinking about the 180º out-of-phase situation. It still doesn't seem logical. Maybe it's time to get the books out from my training and do some further research.
This website provides a good summary of the various systems.....
http://www.ccontrolsys.com/w/Electrical_Service_Types_and_Voltages
Think of a 115V sine curve. Now think of another one directly opposite;
0V when the first one is also at 0V, at t=0;
min (-115V), when the other one is max (+115V); at t=pi/2;
both 0 again; at t=pi;
max (+115V) at t=3pi/2, when the other one is min (-115V);
0V again at t=2pi.
These two sine curves are the relative voltages at either end of the center tap transformer with the center at ground. but they are also 180° (pi/2 radians) out of phase. The first one minus the 2nd one is also a sine curve with the max of 230V.
Lee,
I'll have to ponder that further in the morning, as it's late and I'm not focusing well. In the example I provided with the Delta-Wye single phase centre tapped transformer, the supply is only single phase, ∴ there should be no phase shift and nothing should be displaced 180º.
Ken,
too much math? Sorry.
OK, the transformers are arranged so that the hot conductors are +115V and -115V (opposite polarity) from the neutral. But they are not direct current, they are alternating, so it's the same thing as being 180° apart.
And, according to your reference, European power is "1-Phase, 2-Wire 230 V with neutral". I assume that means Germany.
Lee,
No, not too much math although it's been awhile since I've covered that sort of thing.
I was in the electrical trades so was aware of the difference between direct current and alternating current, however I suspect we may be discussing two different things. I may have been focusing mostly on the 120º shift between A/B/C phases, rather than the 180º difference between the positive cycle of a sine wave vs. the negative cycle. In any case, the typical household service is single phase. In my case, there's only one phase of the 25 kV feeder going past my front door and the distribution transformer is tapped off that.
AFAIK, that would also mean Germany although I haven't checked to see if any differences exist between Germany and other countries. From what I've read, the E.U. is trying to standardize electrical systems to some extent, so I think any differences will be minimal.
Will have to ponder this a bit more. Hope the OP doesn't mind a bit of spirited discussion on this topic ;-)
Now I know why I stuck with civil engineering. Digging ditches is not hard to understand.
you can be fairly sure that the 12vDC battery in the car, which this topic is about (yakn_girl, are you still out there? Haven't heard much from you since you posted this question 4 days ago), won't have much of a sine wave. More a flat line.
Engineer duuudes, there is a reason British plugs used (?) to be manufactured with TWO fuses, one for EACH power-carrying leg ...
Tim, I have never heard of a British plug with two fuses in it. The one fuse is always on the live pin, as shown on this photo of a plug with the cover removed.
Having a fuse on the neutral wire is actually dangerous. If it blows then the appliance, and both wires back to the plug are then floating at line voltage.
Swiss plugs on the other hand are smaller and neater to use, but more difficult to wire up because they are smaller inside. You need small fingers (not like mine)!
Thanks for everyone's answers and suggestions.
I think I need to figure out if where we are camping there will be electricity. I've never been, but others in our group have gone there.
Buying a hair dryer in Europe, might be best.
Thank you,
So, Chris, from the picture of the UK plug wiring, it looks like the blue wire is the neutral and the brown wire is hot (fused). Is that true for Swiss wiring, also? From the drawing I have of the Swiss receptacle, it appear that, with the grounding pin offset above, the pin socket labeled "N" is on the left, looking in. Your picture would indicate the opposite, but I know European drawing projections are not like ours.
I found this explanation. Apparently brown=hot, blue=neutral has always been continental Europe, UK changed in 2005 to be consistant with the rest of the EU (I think the old UK system was more intuative, ie red hot).
So, in Switzerland, with the grounding pin on the top, the right-hand pin socket is neutral? Then this adapter should provide correct polarization of a US appliance in a Swiss receptacle.
Yes Lee. Brown = Live (as it is called in British English), blue = neutral and yellow/green striped = earth.
This is the standard for appliance leads and has been for a long time (1970's?, 1960's?). Previous to that each country had its own standard which required manufacturers to have different leads for each country - expensive. This is a international standard IEC 60446 (not just Europe), but as usual the USA does not adopt it.
The reference to changing in 2004 is for fixed wiring, i.e. wires in walls up to the socket, using solid conductors. Fixed wiring is not covered by the standard, the wiring in my flat in Switzerland is a different colour scheme again.
The right hand pin is live in both British and Swiss sockets, as shown on the two photos. The difference is that on a Swiss socket the earth pin is below the other two pins (as shown here), in the UK the earth is above the other two pins.
Also, in Switzerland they frequently put a socket in with a light switch at shoulder height (as the photo shows). In the UK sockets are mounted separately at about ½ metre above the floor, so less trailing leads.
yakn_girl, we have well hijacked your subject for some techie-talk. I hope you don't mind.
P.S. the old UK system was red = live, green = earth, black = neutral. This was dangerous because red/green colour-blindness is the most common sort. That is why earth is now striped, it is colour-blindness-proof.
Chris F.,
Thanks for posting those pictures; they show the detail of the Plugs nicely.
yakn_girl,
I've never camped in Europe, but from what I've seen many camping spots are equipped with shower rooms, small convenience stores and in some cases restaurants (not exactly "roughing it"). Therefore it's likely there will be power available to connect a Hair Dryer.
Tim,
"Engineer duuudes, there is a reason British plugs used (?) to be manufactured with TWO fuses, one for EACH power-carrying leg"
Just for clarification, I haven't researched how British Plugs may have been wired in the past, but the modern types being discussed in this thread only have one "power-carrying leg", as shown in the photos that Chris provided. The three wires are....
There's absolutely no need to fuse the Neutral or Ground.
"There's absolutely no need to fuse the Neutral or Ground." - fusing the earth (ground) is dangerous. If that fuse blows you then have no earth! And there should not, in normal circumstances, be any current flowing through the earth lead. If there is, you already have a problem, and disconnecting the earth by having a fiuse blowing would be suicidal.
After much research, including a conversation with TÜV, I've concluded that the electrical service in Germany consists of one line at ±230V (varying sinusoidally) and the other line at ground potential (neutral). If you are interested watch this video.
This discussion has really gone to the next level!
