Travel Forum Posters in the Travel Industry

Should or would like to?

Why??? if the advice is sound.

I have a tangential relationship to the tourist industry in that my husband works in a restaurant in Paris, but I've never recommended on the Forum that anyone go there . . . It's far too expensive for most of our blood!! (And certainly for mine--I've been there only twice in the four years he's been there, both times as the guest of generous friends.)

I know I HAVE commented a few times when the question about tips in France comes up, because I do know what he and his colleagues think about that, and in a context of more than 10 years and four different places. But I believe I have (and hope) I have always identified when leaving such a comment that tie, I.e. that in that case I'm not exactly a disinterested party.

Some of this information about tourism, prior trips, special expertise could be gleaned from the posters profile but many are not filled out at all.

Bruce,

I've never considered that any of the posters here might be involved in the travel industry. As long as they provide useful information for posters here and don't promote their business, I don't have a problem with that.

FWIW, I am not involved in the travel industry nor ever have been.

Not me, for the record.

Not sure what the purpose is. As long as they are not self-promoting there is no issue.

Are all posters connected to the travel industry known to us? It would be very easy to soft sell products/services using private messages. If my imagination about potential/actual conflicts of interest are overblown, I apologize.

Bruce, has anyone approached you via private message in order to sell a product or service? If so, you should report it.

Yes, I was approached to buy a minor travel accessory via private message. No problem.

Bruce,

If the person that approached you regarding the minor travel accessory would have benefited financially from the sale, that would be a concern. If they were just suggesting a piece of gear that worked well for them, I wouldn't be too worried about that. I'm sometimes quite vociferous about things that I use and like for travel, but I don't make any money by suggesting them to others.

It's never appeared to me that any poster is involved in the industry, except the people who post sales pitches on weekends and get bounced off when the webmaster returns on Monday. Maybe I'm just naïve, but to me it's been a non-issue.

If you say you are, it's self promotion. If you don't say, it's deception. My guess if you ask, you will get an honest reply.

I believe there are people in the tourist industry who join forums like this one, perhaps initially in the hope that it will promote their business. I personally know several on the Israel forum of tripadvisor.com. I can't speak to their original motive. Direct promotion is strictly forbidden and that rule is energetically and vociferously enforced by the forum members. They've been on the that forum for years, are active participants on the forum, and are able to provide valuable information that others are unaware of.

It seems to me that if we are unaware of a connection that one of our posters has, then there's no self-promotion involved and we should welcome the valuable knowledge s/he brings to the table.

It seems you are implying that anyone associated with the travel industry is here for nefarious reasons.

I admit I used to work in the travel industry and now have a travel website. I am here because I love to travel, Europe is my favorite region, and if I can add any information to make someone else's travel better, I'm happy to do it.

Occasionally, I am asked for advice on products because I do reviews on my website. If someone asks about something, I am happy to give my opinion. It is not for profit. I am not allowed to mention the website on this forum and I don't.

If someone contacted you about a travel product, and you did not post a question regarding it, then it should be reported to the webmaster because it is a violation of the rules.

BTW, I know of others on this board who do work in tourism related jobs. None has ever used this forum to promote their work. Instead, they are experts in their areas and have given some excellent travel advice.

Some of us live full-time in Europe, and can keep up with actual news faster than others do. Some of us belong to neighborhood organizations which work toward having legislation passed on various issues.

Personally, I deplore this kind of "witch hunt", which serves no purpose.

I dont see it as a witch hunt ...... yet. There is some advantage in knowing the context of the advice you are receiving. If I wanted to know the best time of the day to que for the Eiffel Tower I would give more weight to the advise of a Paris tour guide than I would someone who spent 2 days in Paris five years ago.

"Chexbres, Paris, you know the poster is living in Paris. Ought to know better about Paris than xxx living in Bagdad."

Could be true, could be misleading. John Doe -Paris- may just have moved there, John Doe -Baghdad- may have been born and raised in Paris and just moved to Iraq. People can put anything they want as their location so can't always rely on that for better advice.

When you see : Chexbres, Paris, you know the poster is living in
Paris. Ought to know better about Paris than xxx living in Bagdad.

Sometimes living some place can desensitize you to those things that a tourist might be most interested in. I live in a very popular tourist town and I couldn't begin to imagine why it is what it is. Then of course, no one size fits all. He may live in Shanxi Province, but he may share none of your interests.

So the more input form as many points of view; the better the help.

My favorites are people like Unclegus. He goes to Prague so often, yet he remains a tourist; so that he has a foot in both worlds.

It is true that many people post what they hope is helpful information about trips they have made weeks, months, years and even decades ago. Sometimes, this is due to some trauma - like being the victim of a pickpocket or scam artist - and they feel compelled to warn others whenever the subject comes up. Sometimes this is helpful, sometimes it engenders panic attacks.

On other forums, there are "professional volunteer authorities" who claim to know many things about a great many cities and what goes on there, and who insist that their opinion is the only one which counts. In fact, many of them don't travel very much at all, and are just working with very fast search engines. Their information is often incorrect, and that's unfortunate, because their fans believe them.

Rick's forums are closely monitored, and that's a good thing.
Other forums have been turned over to a small handful of posters, who fall into the category of "PVAs" and spend their time in-fighting and avoiding the subject at hand. Some people might find this entertaining, but this really isn't the point of a travel forum.

I think this is forum has the most authentic, respectful, decent and well meaning members of any of the forums. I don't go near any of the other forums any longer. They are either totally lacking in depth or they are ego free for all's.

In fact, many of them don't travel very much at all, and are just working with very fast search engines.

We had one here years ago, but he was outed many times as a fraud... including a fake trip to Paris.

Why would anyone take a fake trip to Paris? Real ones are much more interesting. ..

Fake ones are cheaper.

And nothing ever goes wrong on those fake ones.

And this is exactly what I mean by a "witch hunt"... it's poisoning the well, and serves no purpose.

Really, people shouldn't spend all their time on a travel forum playing detective and believing someone has insulted them or anyone else.

If you have a legitimate beef - according to the rules and regulations of this forum - simply report the post to the moderators and let them do the job they were hired for.

I'm not connected to the travel industry in any way. I can imagine why some folks would want to "lay low" and not identify themselves voluntarily. They may not have any interest in tangling up their professional life with the travel forum or to be more scrutinized or singled out due to a perception of some "insider knowledge" or pre-existing bias, for lack of better words. There are instances where I think it's appropriate (although certainly not required or expected) to either recuse yourself from providing some advice precisely due to a professional/financial conflict or to state upfront that your opinion comes with a caveat. I think that contributes to a more honest, positive and helpful conversation. To give an example, there was an earlier discussion of an Airbnb policy and its potential effects - I would greatly appreciate it if folks who have an investment property and market it on Airbnb would state this upfront because they are not unbiased observers. But it's up to them and in no way does this voluntary forum try to enforce any ethical standards - it's a matter of personal ethics only and each person can decide for themselves how much they would like to divulge. All I'm saying is that trust is often developed when people are upfront even though they don't need to be. And trust makes this forum a more constructive forum. I can appreciate that this is a tradeoff between personal privacy...but I would still posit that one does not need to be burdened with divulging...simply recusing yourself from posting on certain questions/topics will solve the problem of excessive bias (I stress "excessive" because I believe everyone has certain biases - it's just a part of being human and having opinions shaped by certain life experiences).

I don't think Bruce is on any witch hunt -- I think he brings up a valid point, which is that if people are involved with the tourist industry, it would be most ethical for them to reveal that if they post here on a regular basis (or heck, ever, depending on what they say in their post). If not, their posts, which may appear to be unbiased, could be persuasive, but people might appreciate knowing that a person does have a certain bias. Frank II, I think we all know and are aware of your relationship to the tourist industry, and appreciate your insight on a range of insights, and know that you are expert on many subjects, and particularly on gear because we know that is an interest of yours. Similarly, knowing that Nigel works for a UK rail company in some capacity (along with a few years now of reading his posts) gives me confidence that when he speaks on a rail issue in the UK, he probably knows what he's talking about. He also refrains from "trashing" certain companies and uncritically praising others, so I feel like we benefit from his expertise without fearing that he's trying to lure us to a certain company or product.

I get what Bruce is getting at, and I don't think there's any reason to impugn his motives for raising a simple issue which as we all know is crucial to the faith that we can put in any person's posting.

There are instances where I think it's appropriate (although certainly
not required or expected) to either recuse yourself from providing
some advice precisely due to a professional/financial conflict or to
state upfront that your opinion comes with a caveat. I think that
contributes to a more honest, positive and helpful conversation.

Agnes, I tend to agree with the concept of being transparent. However, I know when that has occurred on the forum, the statement to provide the transparency has been interpreted by some as self-promotion. So sometimes it’s a no win situation. To recuse one’s self only denies the forum inside information or a broader understanding of the topic that might not otherwise be available; the workings of AirBnb for instance. I have a tourism investment in a city in Europe and when I think it adds to the credibility of my response I sometimes add that “I have a tourism investment in a city in Europe”.

If asked directly, the forum moderators do permit a direct honest response.

What sort of situation would consider to be excessively biased? This is a good discussion.

Funny, I didn't know about Frank II or Nigel...?? Nor does it disturb me one way or another.

As for Bruce. Its a good topic.

What sort of situation would consider to be excessively biased?

Two examples:
- Promoting certain businesses without disclosing one has a financial stake in those businesses
- Promoting solely first-class, high-end accommodations and flights without disclosing whether the poster gets reimbursed for such products/services as someone who "travels for a living" and performs "travel research" as an occupation. The same poster consistently devalued less expensive options and even called them "dumps"...it was either first-class or bust. I think many others found her attitude quite off-putting, narrow, and overly biased. It's fine to have high-end preferences, but not respecting others' opinions and budgets is not.

Agnes, on the first count; absolutely if we are talking one on one. If you owned a hotel in Paris, promoting hotels in general would not be a big deal as the odds of your place benefitting is one in 5000 at best. Of course there are extremes. But to review your own hotel or trash a direct competitor; absolutely over the line.

A person who is reimbursed for his travel and then recommends the same level of travel while denigrating anything less is more of a pompous a$$ than a person dealing with a conflict of interests.

Agnes, now who could you possibly be referring to? Hmmmm.

I'll come forward. I work in the travel industry.

:)

More seriously, as I sense that there is some sensitivity in this thread, I think it's important to weigh in and say that there are many regular members of our forum that are a part of the travel industry in one way or another. The important part is that these people follow our Community Guidelines as it pertains to promotion. I think our community does very well in that the people here don't see this place as an economic opportunity and -- even better -- they protect what this forum is about and reject promotion. Thanks to all those who submit Reports. I may not be able to respond to each one like I used to when this place was smaller, but it's a big help and you make this place what it is.

James noted one difficult aspect that he is too familiar with... if you note that you are a part of the travel industry with the intention of being transparent, this is frequently received as an attempt at promotion. When we created the profile sections of our forum, we did this with the eye of allowing people to reveal such information about themselves (as long as you don't tell people to go to your profile). This way, you can be transparent if someone were to look for more information about you. Its an option anyway.

I hope you all don't worry too much about ulterior motives with the members of our forum here. I've come to know many of you over time. There are a lot of good people here and I strongly believe that this is one of the most trustworthy forums on the internet. Moderators (like me) can handle the rest so that you don't have to.

Happy Thanksgiving!

And the moderator here is quite excellent and quite under appreciated. As suggested by the moderator I have updated my forum profile.

Personally I would have a lot more fun with a post about Travel and Social Responsibility.

I participate in a few Internet forums and one thing I know....The liveliest threads are about the forum itself. ;) The only spam I ever see on here is non-travel related nuisance spam and never a member promoting a specific product. If they were promoting people would call them out on it I'm sure, the forum seems very old school (a good thing) in that way.

I'm with Kim here. I always pay a bit more attention to Frank II's posts, knowing his background in the travel industry (and appreciating his thoughtful comments,) and before a trip to England I always look to see what Nigel has to say about transportation there. And I appreciate other people who work in fields that may be particularly helpful. emma, for example, evidently works in something police related, and she's a wonderful source of information about London.

But I didn't know about James' rental properties until now. I do appreciate his integrity in regards to them. Better to be overly scrupulous than to be suspected of being profit-driven here.

Sorry Jane. In the past I would mention it when I thought it would indicate I knew what I was talking about; but it more often than not resulted in accusations and snarky PMs, so I quit.

And this is why I really appreciate the profiles which helps me determine the experience of the poster.

Oh, I got flack for mentioning it on my profile too.

That's a shame, James E. Because it's good to know a poster's experience and perspective.

Its life ...

James E.,

I can't imagine why you'd get flack for mentioning that in your Profile. That information is only available to those that take the time to look at Profiles. As long as you're not promoting your business interests on the forum, I don't see what the problem is? As you said, I guess that's life.

I think they are really after me because of their perception of my beliefs. What's really funny is when they open a new account and use it to try and bait me in PM's. Funny actually. I expanded my profile today and will deal with it when it comes.

Maybe if your profile said more about you than the rental properties in Europe? That is "full disclosure" in a sense but really opaque in other ways--not helpful to anyone trying to understand your travel philosophy, for instance.

Sasha, you are stalking me!!! :-) Excellent.

I used your profile as sort of template to determine what information would be most valuable. Then I made my profile 2 sentences longer than yours. :-)

But for you: I don't really have a travel philosophy of great note. I enjoy the places I have posted on. I avoid places that have profound Institutional abuses of human rights because I am not comfortable with it and I don't want to support it. No, I wont tell you which places. You have to deal with your own conscience and I cant dictate that. I travel cheap and with nothing but a carry on at times. At other times I have a tux in the suitcase. I look for special events and plan around them when ever possible. I love national holidays. I look for places that are changing, to see them before they change forever; most of Eastern Europe meets that description. I don't much care for rental apartments (surprise!). I prefer the support a hotel provides. I generally rely on guides for about 50% of the time and do it solo the other 50%. I have essentially sublent my apartments to another party that manages and runs them. So I cant tell anyone too much about the business detail. What else would you like to know?

I do not "stalk" anyone. But I do sometimes seek clarification of things that strike me as odd. And I just happened to be interested in two threads--this one and the medical evacuation one---that coincidentally involved you.

Relax, I was joking...... But what oddity would you like explained in my posts here? Other than the one that supports profiles, has no profile?

James E. I don't see an expanded profile for you, just the same one you created a few days ago. Does it have to go through the Webmaster before its posted?

And thanks for making that spelling correction. It was driving me crazy!!

EDIT: Never mind James, I see the addition now.

Peter

Peter, misspelling? If I fixed it, it was by accident. I'm not a huggie feely guy so "I love Paris in the Spring ... " stuff doesn't really come easy to me. If anyone is interested in me, its best they read my posts; as their perception is going to carry more weight than anything I say about myself; take Sasha in point. I've posted long profiles but always end up being uncomfortable with them and end up deleting them. Sasha seems a little disturbed that I only posted the minimum about the apartments. Really? All those that cant guess where they are please stand up..... :-)

Hahaha! James E, yes, I can guess!

I have been on this board for a long, long.......long time. And except for the blatant posting promoting a product or service, I can probably count on one hand the number of times a regular poster promoted a business. And when that happens, the webmaster is quick to respond.

I can't say that for the Tripadvisor forums. Some of their so called "experts" are there to promote certain businesses.

I remember on one board, I won't say which on, I was looking for a certain type of tour. One of the "experts" said they didn't exist but I could get something similar with Tour Comapny A. I looked at many of her other postings and they included mention of Tour Company A. I did a little more research and found exactly what I wanted with three different tour companies. When I mentioned this on the board, she never responded.

I then looked at some of the other advice she gave and it was bad. Yet she was marked as an expert on that country.

We've had posters here who just look things up because they had a need to respond and we still have people who will answer a question with the same response as many others but at least it's not incorrect. (I don't know if it's because they haven't looked at the other responses or they are killing time by answering as many questions as possible.)

If people are so worried about conspiracies to promote something on this board, do your own diligence and research the answers to your questions.

hmmmm James it seems it must be a darned if you do and darned if you don't situation. I for one appreciate knowing that you are an owner in a certain place that we both hold dear - it says to me that you have an investment (and not just financial) in a place and that you probably have good info on it. It seems to me you've always been open about it, that's all that anyone can ask.

There is no doubt. James E. does provide excellent and informed advice about his adopted country. I've saved several of them on a folder I've created for a future trip there (2018'ish). I will very likely build our schedule based on his recommendations.

Chin up James E.!

You go, James E.!

You have convinced me to go to Budapest in 2018.

Yes, James E., me, too. I have signed up for the RS Eastern Europe tour Aug. 2017 which includes a short stay in Budapest. I have been busily filing away all your great information (as well as unclegus' and others) for future reference. I for one very much appreciate all the informed info I have received and will receive from this wonderful forum and posters. Thank you, all.

I looked up that best of Eastern Europe tour. Sort of a best of the western part of Eastern Europe, but in 14 days that's all you can do. Looks like a blast. If you are on the late August tour and you return home through Budapest (admittedly, not easy to do - but worth the extra time in Budapest), then look me up as I will most likely be there.

I've come late to this thread but wanted to respond to the conversation way up saying if someone lives in a particular city it makes them an expert on that city... I disagree. We all have our own opinions and two different people living in the same city may give very different advice based on their biases and personality.

I trust a person's advice on the city they live in based on all the posts I've read of theirs and how sound I think their advice overall has been. Not because they live there.

I agree with Susan. I have lived in Toledo, Ohio for eight years and I can tell you it has a very good museum. I know there are other cultural and historical benefits here, and have been to some, but I am no expert.

Now, Miami is a different story (lived there for many years, love it).

Hey, this very travel forum and RS himself and his business is a large part of the travel industry! Industry is not a bad thing. I agree with an above poster that as long as the advice is solid - who cares about the source.

I would narrow the definition of being an "expert" of a city. I am a SF native, grew here too, and only claim to be an expert in getting around the city, finding one's way (no GPS, Smartphone, etc) both by public transportation (Muni) and by car.

James, your passion for Budapest prompted me to add a couple of more days there back in 2013. The guidance and suggestions you gave, both on tbe forum and via site mail, was top notch. I'm looking forward to returning to Bungary in the next 2 or 3 years. It's a bloody shame that you had to endure some grief due to others disputing the nature of your advice, and, more importantly, your kindness. Sadly, those folks lurk about everywhere. I'm glad that you didn't let them get to you, and that you continue to share about your travels.

Zoe, Miami, Ohio? There's one in Oklahoma, as well.

Jane, Miami, Florida. Go 'Canes!

Miami, Texas; Go Warriors!!