Travel Forum Feedback

Here's an important note for a few of you.

We are no longer requiring that new topics be initiated with a question. While we still frame all of the destination-specific sections of this forum (as listed by country) as the place to ask questions and get (or give) answers, we will no longer remove topics on the basis that they did not ask a question (I've already been avoiding this when possible). New topics that don't ask a question but still cross the line regarding our no-promotion policy will obviously still be removed.

Does "England" mean just England, so there will separate sections for Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Isle of Man, Channel Islands, etc., or do you mean United Kingdom or Great Britain? Or is this a subtle RS vote for Scottish independence?

Ah!!!! those Brits keep forgetting they lost the war !!

Probably needs some simplification. But I can wait. We are about to head to Keys for a month so that this cold weather business will pass.

Looks like our English cousins are taking a pounding from the weather. Hang in there and stay dry.

For Nigel and those who are curious about how we've segmented Great Britain...

A decision was made to split out Scotland as it is a major destination area and may soon have it's independence. To be fair to another major tourist area within Great Britain, Wales will also have a section. Naturally, England gets a section as well. There's no political vote here. We're just trying to make sure our site is set up well for the long haul and we are comfortable with having Scotland and Wales segmented.

EDIT: Sentence removed.

Hi. Not sure this is something you could do but it would be nice if there could be one listing called "country specific forums" that, when you click on it, would expand to show the individual countries' forums. It may be that that's not possible but it would be a lot less 'busy'. Either way I think the expansion to country specific forums is a good thing and I'm glad to see it.

Not sure this is something you could do but it would be nice if there
could be one listing called "country specific forums" that, when you
click on it, would expand to show the individual countries' forums.

To this... I respond with this...

Feel free to comment about this, but know that the
display/organization of these sections will be addressed in the week
of January 20th.

sounds like a great reno.. looking forward to it..

I do hope that you will organize this so that people don't have to click on 30 different links if they want to see recent posts for more than one country.

I haven't read this board as much since the new format was introduced and the old "classic view" disappeared. One of the things I always liked about the RS forum and particularly the "classic view" was that you could quickly scroll through a large number of posts covering a variety of locations. If you read something that piqued your interest, you could then click on that and see the whole thread. It gave me an overview of travel covering many countries. I've missed that. I think tripadvisor is great, but I'd hate to see this board turn into a tripadvisor replica. Tripadvisor is so big, I tend to only look at the forum for the specific destinations that I plan to visit on my next trip. On the other hand, the RS forum has always been smaller and more manageable allowing me to look at posts on places I have visited in the past, as well as places I might visit several years from now.

I'm all for improvements ... just pay attention to the overall usability of the site.

That's a really good comment. Thank you, Laura. We are looking at a re-jiggering (yes, that's a word... now :p ) of the system to allow for a Classic View or something similar.

I'll keep an open mind, but it seems like it will be very difficult and time consuming to check posts in each country. It might seem easier for those coming with specific questions to go into that country's thread and post their question. And a little easier for those with experience in just a few countries to check for questions to answer. But for those of us with experience in numerous countries, we'll either have to check a lot of threads or limit our posting here.

I totally agree with Laura. Except, I don't like TripAdvisor for the reasons she mentioned. Wayyy too specific and difficult to navigate. This new format reminds me of TA. I think it's very user-unfriendly.

I appreciate you're working hard to improve the site, and a few of the new categories are a good idea, but, as others have said in Frank's thread, I think this is overkill.

And what happened with a "like" button many people have asked for? I'd give Keith one.

Keith read my mind.

I see no place for Iceland, Luxembourg, San Marino, or Monaco, all real places which have many tourists each year.

If you want to break up the United Kingdom, shouldn't you have Flanders and the other half of Belgium?

I went to Food and Drink and see restaurant reviews can't go there, but I can't see where they do go??? The referred name doesn't seem to exist (yet).

I'm with Laura, Douglas and similar views. What I really like about RS is that it isn't like Trip Advisor. I can scan through a section quickly and read what might interest me or where I might have information or opinions to contribute. With dozens of sections, I will be much less inclined to delve into many of them. Quite frankly I don't think there's enough traffic on RS to justify this. For the last few years, I've been a regular reader and contributor here (daily when I'm not traveling) and only visit TA when I need specific information.

Dividing by country also makes it really difficult to post questions about multi-country destinations, one of the big advantages of RS over TA.

On the other hand, organizing the trip reports and the new reviews section by country would be very helpful. I hardly read the trip reports when I'm planning a trip because it is so time-consuming to find the ones that are specific to my chosen destination.

I do like the new Beyond Europe section...at least people won't get nagged about asking questions about non-European destinations. So many of the people on here are well travelled all over the world, not just Europe. I've had some great tips when I asked about California from people who both live there and have visited. I am hoping that hubby and I will do Australia in 2015, and I can use the expertise of the folks on this site to help plan. I feel like I've gotten to know a lot of you - you peculiarities and weird sense of humour and attitudes both good and bad. And I like that about this site, which is why I keep coming back. So the change will take some getting used to and hopefully some fine-tuning will take place...let's see what the future brings!

The long list of countries would be easier to follow if the countries were grouped together in folders like To the West, North, East, etc. There are a few travelers who try for the Grand Tour on a single trip, but many of us base in one country and cross into neighboring countries during a visit. The General Europe topic would work as well for the regions, so, in each folder we could look to that topic first if we are visiting multiple countries in the same region. Occasionally, we might need to look in two regions for bordering countries, as we do now, but that beats having to scan a long list every time. As a quick reference, it would also help to have a map showing the major countries on the main page and more specific map in the section for each region.

I am totally with Keith and Laura. Their points Imlike: why break up the UK when Scotland, England, and Wales are not separate countries? UK + Ireland would correctly express the countries.

But my main objection is this has turned the board into a copy of Tripadvisor. While I like TA for focused answers to specific questions, it is way too fragmented for general reading. It breaks up the sense of community that has existed here, with lots of people with varying degrees of experience, and various orientations, answering questions. Now, it will take forever to run through all the different countries to find a question I might like to answer or comment on. I probably won't bother, and neither will lots of others.

Tripadvisor depends on its Destination Experts to monitor their individual forums and keep things going. But we don't have those here. What I fear will happen is that most countries will get answers and comments by only a few people who have already shown devotion to and broad knowledge of that country, like Lee, Tom and Jo for Germany, Nancy, H J, and Brad for Spain, Ken and many others I can't remember right now for Italy and Switzerland, Pamela for Scotland, Keith and Nigel for England, etc. questions on some countries may draw few if any responses.

Tripadvisor works because it's member base is HUGE and worldwide. I now only read the Venice forum there and the Destination Experts and regulars are Venetian, Italian, and frequent visitors from England and Oz. it has a very international flavor (or should I say flavour?). But the RS community is too small to keep all the separate country forums active. Some very active long-time posters left after the last round of changes, and I fear this new format will lead to further defections.

Just my two cents.

I've got an email from RS website team (I suppose many here also got it) where they explain the changes better.

The long list of countries will not be the ultimate form of the Helpine. But, please, everybody calm down a bit, transitioning a forum is quite a heavy work assuming they don't have a whole floor of IT people managing it.

The "Classical View" could never cope with the expansion on the number of users and posts. It would quickly become a place where your new question either got answered in couple hours or shuffled to the 2nd page and then into oblivion.

I'm not aware or all tech details of the new Helpline interface, but I think the Webmaster is probably deploying a forum-like interface where users will be able to click in some 'display most recent forum posts' or 'show all new posts', allowing one to scoop the everything recent on the whole forum.

I think it is positive to have a catch-all 'Beyond Europe' section where people can post other stuff without going off-topic on the regular forums.

I also like the new country segmentation for country-specific threads, as long as they keep the 'General Europe' or create a 'General Itinerary Questions'.

I agree with Sasha and others who found the Traveler’s Helpline approach superior to Trip Advisor’s. TA’s destination and topic “experts” actually drive me away from, not to, the site. A few give useful advice, just as many do here, but far more are simply jerks who dominate the smaller sites, putting up dozens of posts daily with either useless information or constant sniping at visitors and each other. (Two other things I find offensive about TA "experts" are recommendations that seem like sales pitches, as well as wrong information.) I saw some of that here when I started a few years ago, but the main offenders disappeared – or moved to TA as “experts” as the webmaster enforced stricter policies. That will be more of a challenge with so many sites.

Herr Webmeister, I love the new setup and that it is similar to Tripadvisor. Now anyone that has a specific country they have questions for can go right to that country's forum. No more do you have to sift through such general forums as "To the West" etc. Hurray! Goodbye quaint and archaic Classic:-) Keep up the good work with the evolution of this site.
One thing to consider is when one replies to a post you cannot currently see all of the previous replies to the post, only the original question. TA's forums do have this capability and it would be nice to have it here too.

Useful "Tweak" for New Q & A or Tips Forum??
I posted this yesterday under the General category, not knowing about the feedback category -- others may already have suggested this:

Glad to hear of the refinement of this useful travel forum/website. One suggestion, from this longtime contributor of Greece info to the "To the East" Graffiti wall. Up till now, when a question is posted, one can see all the various answers that have been posted ... sometimes as many as ten. However, If I want to add my bit, I sign in, give my password and Presto! the original post appears, with a box for me to type in. HOWEVER --- it does not show the previous 10 answers, for reference. THerefore, I must open another browser window and go BACK to the thread, in order to see these as I respond. This is a clunky, not-useful glitch. Can it be tweaked? All the other forums seem to permit seeing the whole thread while responding ... it can't be that hard to program! Please try!

My two cents: I rarely look at the Trip Advisor forums (ugh!) and hope this will stay manageable and easy to use. Also, glad to hear you're working on a return of Classic View, or something similar (yay!). Love the suggestion to divide up the Trip Reports section into countries or regions. I agree there are too many countries listed, Scandinavia should be combined as should the UK, but I understand the organization will change soon.

I have to echo what Keith has already said.

You have opted to move to a country-based forum schema for your 'Destination Q&A' yet have decided to be inconsistent by splitting up just one country, the UK into its constituent parts. Yet only three of these constituent countries actually have a section in the forum, Northern Ireland not having one. Can it really be the idea that this should be discussed within a forum for what is legally a totally separate country, viz Ireland?

Also you have now left the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands without a home.

If you really want to be seen as apolitical my advice is to use neutral, more geographically and non politically-based terms to avoid treading over one set of people's sensitivities or another. Two simple sections, one 'Ireland' the other 'British Islands' would work I suppose, at least for the moment, although the latter term is possibly not as well known as maybe it should be.

Well my enthusiasm yesterday has been well and truly tempered with this weeks' long list. All in one font and weight. Particularly on a small screen really hard to read and use.

I will be patient and look forward to the pretty up in phases 2 and 3, according to the letter.

In the mean time I'll keep my head down. It is just too confusing. I see the need to make it easy for new contributors and questioners, but it has to be reasonable for the worker bees here or the questions won't get answered.

I have pretty broad experience of much of western Europe and the UK, but I can't see scrolling through 20 sections every day to scrape the half dozen new questions.

Before anyone gets to judgmental or has dozens of recommendations, probably should wait to see the end product. Obviously there is a plan that is evolving. We just don't know what it is. I think I will go on vacation for about three weeks and then see what it looks like.

I kind of agree with Frank that we need to 'wait and see' and maybe I'll take a vacation from the helpline until after the 20th and then see what shakes out. As far as what I see now, the "to the east" section needs to stay as there are several Eastern European countries that don't have their own listings (Romania, Bulgaria, Ukraine,etc) and there has to be a place to post questions on these, but I'll wait and see what the final list looks like before making specific comments on this.

Will it be a done deal on the 20th? If yes, I think feedback, which Andrew has asked for, is appropriate now.

According to the note from the Webmaster, the "To The East" section will be disappearing when the changes are complete. It would be somewhat redundant as there are now sections for Russia and other countries in the east.

I posted a few thoughts in the Expanding Message Board Thread, so don't have much to add to that. I agree with many of you that we should wait to see the final product, as it may turn out to be less cumbersome than anticipated.

I don't use the Trip Advisor forums mainly because they have too many sections (which are coincidentally about the same number as the "new" HelpLine). That would take a lot of time, and I'd rather spend that time contributing here. One interesting point is that Trip Advisor has a "group" listing for the United Kingdom, which is something I suggested in the other Thread. Also interesting is that T.A. has sections for Iceland, Malta and Ukraine (for example), which aren't included in the new format here.

I definitely agree with the points that Nigel articulated in this Thread. It's unlikely that I'll be inclined (or have the time) to check each of the ~50 sections in the new format, so there will undoubtedly be some questions that I could have contributed to that will go unanswered (by me). I still believe that some grouping of countries would be a good idea, as some smaller countries may not get many questions and therefore won't be checked often. It would be better to group them with other countries in that vicinity, as people visiting that region will probably be going to several places in the area.

It just occurred to me that it would be easier to navigate the many sections of the new site by having a "flag" next to each section, to indicate whether there have been any new posts in that section (and perhaps indicating the number of new posts?). That would make it much faster to focus only on the sections that have had activity, rather than going through the whole list.

Just a thought.....

Good idea Ken, I like it. Webmeister take heed!

The new section entitled Money-Saving Stragegies might benefit from a spell-checker (LOL)

I feel that the evolution of the site is great. Now people with questions about specific countries can go right to that country and ask their questions. One thing I believe on the positive side, it will eliminate the tiresome "I suggest you get Rick's Europe Through the Back door" etc. That comment should be reserved for General Europe. No offense Rick. The new format will give people with specific knowledge of that country the opportunity to respond to poster's questions from PERSONAL experience, not refer them to the books or their opinion based on no true personal experience for the country involved. Some people have said they do not like to go through all the categories...well then confine yourself to your true experience/love of that country, and expertise. This is, after all, a site where people come with specific questions, it is not a social club (perhaps Herr Webmeister you can set-up a "Lounge" where all the old-timers can have discussions about whatever...) (:-) Just kidding.
I hope people will give the new format a good chance before going bonkers...reminds me of my mom when she had to deal with the change from Windows to Windows XP..."Oh this is too cumbersome and too much trouble to deal with". Time marches on folks, change is good.

Alex, I think we're all aware that time marches on. Some changes are not for the better. We are all entitled to our opinion as to how to improve the site. Advising people to read ETTBD is good advice. Can't build a house without a foundation.

Susan,
Yeah, whatever. Change is great and I love this new format...and of course it goes without saying, everyone is entitled to their opinion, as I have given mine. Of course Rick's books are good for travel info, but if someone has a specific question for a country now they can ask in a specific forum and hopefully get an answer from someone with true personal experience, not someone who just wants to write an opinion without the experience.
I am sure the Herr Webmeister is trying to iron out all the bugs and will evolve the site into something very user friendly for those who have specific questions...for those who have vague or multi-destination questions there is "General Europe". Works for me.

An obvious issue that I don't think (?) anyone has raised is, what about multi-country itineraries?

I find myself answering a lot of posts in To the West about the logistics of a trip that starts in (say) London or Brussels and ends in (say) Barcelona or Nice.

Sometimes I can only comment about segments of the trip because of lack of knowledge, but I think my partial answers, coupled with those from others, are still helpful.

There's no clear place now to post such a question AND be reasonably sure that every one who is about to be helpful will see it. Even if one posts duplicates, and gets many disaggregated replies, the conversation will lack the synergy available at the old To the West, where different "helpers" could more or less collaborate in their replies.

I don't much like the current forum, actually, so am looking forward to some changes. But I am concerned about this one.

Adam,
As I have done in TA I would do here. Example: if I am going from Switzerland to Austria, and then on to Italy-- if I had particular questions for the specific country I would post my question in that forum. If, however, I had a transportation or logistics question regarding all three I would post in the "Transportation" forum here or in General Europe.

Alex, if you love your mom, you'll get her an iMac. :>)

Roy,
Unforunately she has passed, but she did finally get the hang of XP and would remark on how did she ever get along without it.
:-)
We run with iMac, Win8, Linux, and Android in our house...always love to move along with the times.

Thank you all for your feedback. We are taking it all in. Thanks to those who recognize that we are not yet finished with the changes. We know it is a bit clunky right now and will be implementing more changes during the week of the 20th.

The new format will give people with specific knowledge of that country the opportunity to respond to poster's questions from PERSONAL experience, not refer them to the books or their opinion based on no true personal experience for the country involved.

I'm not sure how the new format will prevent people from posting what they don't know, any more than they are prevented from doing so now.

Another thought occurred to me this morning.

Since Rick now has books both on cruising the Mediterranean as well as the northern European ports, would it be a good idea to add a separate category for cruising (which could include the river cruises). This would be a better way to focus questions, rather than lumping them in with the Transportation category.

Just a thought.....

Brilliant idea, Ken!!

I love it. There is quite an upswell here about cruising and I'm sure a cruising section was be very welcome. It would probably get more questions than several other of the new sections.

Perhaps it could get 2 sub-sections, river cruising and general cruising...

This isn't feedback about the new layout but I was just wondering what's going on with the 'search' option. Is it just me or is everyone unable to use it? Hopefully it's just due to the re-formatting of the website and will be fixed soon.

I haven't tried the search but I have a hypothesis... It seems that the Helpline relies on a third party spider indexing all the pages and runs the search against those results.

Our host has apparently chosen to use the Bing spider, Redmond based at the Gates family money machine rather than the Cupertino based spider.

Although Google seems to know all things about all people before they themselves have thought it much less committed it to keyboard, the Microsoft product seems to have a lot of lag.

The lag is most obvious during periods of big change. That would account for the person the other day who couldn't find her own posts, and may account for Nancy's problems. This was also manifestly obvious at the time of the First Great Change.

There used to be a somewhat arcane method of finding your own posts which involved visiting the private message area but that facility appears to have been lost.

I'd really like to be able to see all my own posts (not just for me but for everybody to be able to see their own); but just as much as that I'd like to be able to view all the posts of others, easily.

People often ask questions without thinking to put in the background in later posts which they may put in an earlier one. That leaves regular posters guessing if this is the same person who ..., or not, and being able to click on their name and not only be able to send a PM but also view their history would be fabulous. And if we are now attempting to imitate TA, that is a feature that is easily available on TA.

I posted this elsewhere, but I'm adding it here so Andrew can read it.

My problem with the new format is that even if it is easier for new posters (and I'm not sure that it is), the fact that it has become cumbersome will drive the people away who take the time to answer all these questions. I think that defeats the purpose.

Combining the Helpline with the Graffiti Wall also has a downside. I am noticing that in categories that ask people to give information, people are also asking questions. Example - Day Tours In Europe - when asking people to recommend guides, etc., someone is asking for a guide recommendation. I think it is too confusing, especially for people who are new to the site.

Categories like To The West are supposed to be replaced by the new individual country categories, yet people are still able to ask new questions to those categories. I don't understand that. I can see why people should be able to reply to a question already asked, but why allow new questions?

I also notice that veteran posters are adding to other posts of advice rather than starting their own post. Maybe I'm wrong, but my impression of headings like Money-Saving Strategies is that each person would provide their tips, not add their tips in the same thread as someone else's tips.

Like I said, it's all confusing.

A while back, before this new round of changes, someone mentioned they don't like the avatars and offered tips on how to discourage them. I'm hoping you will.

"Group Germany, Switzerland, Austria (maybe Czech Republic) together, as those are countries likely to be visited by when flying into Frankfurt."

Leave my Austria alone! (:-) I now can go right to that country (my favorite) and help people without having to sift through a combined country forum.

I like the new format. It is not confusing. Do not change anything.

Too many cagetories will drive away most people who answer questions. There aren't too many people who have the time to go through every category.

How about a compromise: Expand what was before but not into a zillion different categories. Figure which areas get the most questions and make them specific countries. Otherwise, group them wisely. Something like this:

General Europe,
Transportation,
British Isles & Ireland,
France,
Italy,
Benelux,
Spain, Portugal & Morocco,
GAS: Germany, Austria and Switzerland (and Liechtenstein),
Scandinavia,
Eastern Europe,
Greece & Turkey,
Other Areas
Cruising
Travel bags, products and accessories
etc.

It's a little more specific than what was before but not overwhelming.

I love Frank's suggestion! Very sensible. I would still scroll through and answer questions in a format like that. M( Right now I have pretty much given up on all categories but general Europe as it takes too long to look around every country and there are too few Q's anyway).

I also share Susan's concern about the avatars. In the old days, people here used real names. Maybe not necessarily their own real name, but at least it sounds like a name. I don't know if that was a rule or just the culture. But I liked it. Now new people are registering with goofy made-up names. It is starting to look more like Tripadvisor, which is full of names like LuvToTravel and baby23456 and Fresh Peaches.

I like Frank II's suggestion too. It's much more user friendly as far as I'm concerned.

So many people who really care about the quality of the Helpline have given great feedback. The crux of it for me, and someone else mentioned this either in this thread or Frank's thread, is that we lose a sense of community with too many categories. The best feature of the Helpline, and what sets it apart from all other sites, has always been a sense of community. It's what attracted me to it in the first place many years ago. Having too many categories and having it be just a resource to get an answer to a question will result in losing that sense of community. People can get answers to questions very easily with Google or TA or tons of other sites. Having the human, friendly community element is what makes the Helpline unique. I think it would be a big mistake to lose that. Again, as someone else already said, if someone likes and wants the TripAdvisor format, then go to TA. I really do hope the negative feedback is being heard and will make a difference in the end result.

I'm still wondering where some of the Eastern Europe countries are going to land when the "To The East" forum disappears - Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Romania, Moldova come to mind. They certainly don't merit individual county forums and should probably be lumped together but not sure if that's in the plans. In the meantime I guess they should go in the "General Europe" section. It will be real interesting to see what the final results are.

FWIW, I also really like the suggestions that Frank II posted. Having fewer categories would make the site more "user friendly" (IMO) and still allow for questions that cover a region rather than a specific country (ie: traveling through the Scandinavian countries).

There have been lots of great suggestions so far, and it will be interesting to see the changes on Jan. 20th.

One of the repliers here said : "It takes too long to look around every country ..."
I believe : most people reading Travel Helpline do not want to read the questions about every country in Europe. In the new format, people can click on countries, for reading questions about those countries. I usually do not read questions about countries that I was not at. I was not at most of the countries in Europe. In the new format of Travel Helpline, people can quickly and easily go to the sections that they wish to read. The website of Frommers has a place for asking questions for getting help in planning a trip. That is accessed by clicking on "Community". It is divided into continents, and countries. The name of nearly every country in Europe is there. I think that format is better. I think having the new format here does not cause Travel Helpline to have less of a community feel. And I do not want to read questions about Day Tours in Europe, Best Walking Shoes for Travel, Technology Tips, Food and Drink, Student Travel & Study Abroad, hotels and restaurants in Italy, Rick Steves' Radio Show. In the old format at The Traveler's Helpline there were questions about all of those topics in GENERAL EUROPE. I like the new format. The list of topics in GENERAL EUROPE is not cluttered with all of those topics. People who are interested in reading questions about any of those topics can quickly and easily click on the web pages for those topics at the first page in Rick Steves' Travel Helpline.

Now I have a case of the grumps.

I don't want to give an impression of being a grump.

But I am seriously cheesed off.

Patient I can be. Patient I will be. But I am seriously hacked that 926 valuable pages of thread names will just be dumped into oblivion - oh, yes, available by search (has anybody actually tried search on this website in the last 6 months) in 8 days.

According to the red lettered warnings on To The East, To The North, and To The West, all that content so painstakingly created over all the past years will be unceremoniously dumped.

To The Boot escapes the bullet - all of that content is kept in the new Italy section. They are lucky.

All recently posted or answered threads about France, Germany, Switzerland, Norway, the UK (yes, there still is one), Ireland, Spain, Portugal, or inter-European holidays - all gone in a puff of smoke. Pooof.

Is there any reason that instead of zapping them they can't be kept, locked if necessary, so that they can be scrolled back through?

It would be wonderful if the last many years were not just washed away at the tap of a mouse.

I guess Italy was spared the executioner's axe because it is relatively homogeneous - the other three die because they can't easily be broken up into the several countries or fragments of countries the way Italy can be. But is that a good enough reason to destroy them?

It isn't often I get emotional here, but I am now.

Dedicated to the memory of Kent - wherever he may be now.

I agree with Nigel 1000%!!!

I agree with Nigel too. Why can't those categories be locked so no further questions or answers can be posted, but the current information remains? Doing a search is very cumbersome.

Edit- I also dislike the avatars and not knowing where people live. Are they male or female? I don't know what prompted this trend, but I agree with the others that it's tempting to not answer questions when it is so impersonal. If I wanted that I would frequent other travel boards.

I also agree with Nigel. Keep them locked as a viewable archive under the original headings.

I also don't understand where the avatars suddenly came from. All of a sudden it wasn't so and so from somewhere, it was sillyname67463 from can't be bothered to say.

I've never been in a divorce but I have an idea that this may give me a one percent of the feelings generated.

I used to love our community feeling and it worries me that it may be gone.

As I review my thoughts I think that this must be what happens as a company gets big. I guess it is a very long time since Rick Steves ran groups over Europe in a microbus...

What Nigel said. I too think that the new fragmented format destroys any sense of community. I will guess that many long-timers here will bypass the country forums, which are too hard to scroll through, and just check in to General Europe and maybe Transportation, which many of the regulars are really good at. Anything posted in the individual country forum wil go unnoticed, except by the person posing the question---if they even bother to check back.

It is too bad, but I have noticed that some of the experienced voices have already left. If others follow, discouraged, this board will not be of much use to the newbies asking questions.

I can see that people with questions on individual countries are in fact getting replies and have posted back their thanks. If some people find it too hard to look at anything but General Europe, etc...well so it goes, if that is all you can bear to scroll through, it is your choice. People are asking questions and getting answers, that is the purpose of this site.

I definitely agree with the sentiments expressed here and really hope that the sense of community that we're all so used to is preserved after all the changes are done and the dust has settled. That's one thing that sets this travel forum apart from so many of the others. As Sasha mentioned, I've also had the feeling that some of the regulars have been silenced as a result of new format.

It also bothers me that so many Threads will be lost in the three sections that are destined to disappear on January 20th. Many of us spent countless long hours replying to those questions, and I have to wonder if they'll ever be seen again? It's not likely anyone will take the time so do a cumbersome search through thousands of Threads to find the answer to some obscure topic that they want information on. One solution (for example) might be to re-categorize the last few years of Threads in those sections into their respective new sections, and then archive the rest.

I also hope that after the next changes are implemented on January 20th, that some fine tuning will still be possible. I wonder if the new design is totally set in stone or whether there's any room for changes based on user feedback?

I guess we'll have to wait and see.....

(EDIT: I also agree with all of you regarding the goofy Avatars that some of the newcomers to the HelpLine insist on using. I'd rather address a reply to someone by name rather than to an anonymous individual. That's one thing that adds to the sense of community here. Since that nonsense started, I've been tempted to ignore some of the questions, as I was somewhat annoyed by the lack of a name and/or a location).

I agree with Nigel and the others about locking the old categories instead of doing away with them. The search has never recovered fully from the first round of reorganization. And add my voice to those who hate the stupid avatars! I have gotten so that I really don't care about answering someone who doesn't even want to tell me their name, much less where they are from. It's not just being nosey to want to know that. It comes into play often when people are asking about flight options, travel times, and things of that nature. I don't care if there are a dozen people with the same first name - their location then identifies them. Although there was that one time, when there was a second Nancy from Bloomington, IL who confused things for a brief period....

Hi,
Webmaster here. On the whole, know that we are taking in all your comments. The changes we've made thus far are entirely based on years of user feedback. We are still listening and are considering adjustments. It will be prudent to hold tight until the display changes are in effect in the next phase of changes.

I have a couple notes here. While we hear you loud and clear regarding the retirement of the "To the..." sections and will consider various options with how to respond to those concerns, I need to point out that the content there is by no means 'lost' as many of you feel it will be. We are not dumping anything. As it stands now, most content is pushed off the main "To the..." page within a few days and the main way those topics are found after that time is via Search. If Search isn't your tool of choice, there will be a way for you to look back and scroll/page through the old topics if that's how you prefer to navigate.

With regard to the comments about our internal Search, we do apologize that it wasn't useful after the initial rebuild of the forums. However, we had made a change and Search has been working at full force since mid December. If you have any comments about our Search, you are welcome to contact me privately.

With regard to the comment about Avatars, the source of that issue is really a flaw in the rebuild and users shouldn't be blamed. We are looking at adjusting the new process involved with starting a new account so that new users are more inclined to set up their Display Name (avatar) "properly."

Thank you all for your patience with this process. It is quite complicated and we appreciate your input.

How civil and reasonable the Webmaster is. C'mon ladies and gents, boys and girls, give it a little time and don't be "old-fogey-ish". Change CAN be good. You know it can. I am astonished at the resistance to change on this board of (mainly) intelligent and open-minded people and isn't it good to know that the Webmaster listens and welcomes our comments? In a month or so we will all be quite used to the new stuff.

Thank you Norma for saying that. I agree wholeheartedly. Nobody wants the old experts to leave (where would they go anyway...Fodors? Yawn! That forum is very stale and boring.)
No I am not trying to alienate anybody, but this crying about how these changes will be the downfall of RS Helpline are basically groundless. People are asking specific questions in most of the country categories and, most importantly, are getting answers--in most cases I have seen, the poster has replied a thanks for advice offered.

The Webmeister is paying attention as all can see, is taking heed of constructive advice, and will (I am sure) constantly work to make this site better than it ever was. As a web designer myself, I know how difficult the job at hand is for our intrepid friend. I will reiterate...Patience is a virtue.

As to TA having no sense of community, I can only say that on the specific forums that I regularly post on there is great community (many I have had the pleasure of visiting in their home countries and partaking of excellent wine/meals with). There of course are snobs, as there are here as well, no getting away from that anywhere.

Regarding avatars...I could care less, if you don't like posters who use them, don't answer their questions...very simple. It is probably just as easy to start a profile here with a false name and city if one wanted. I think this is a non-issue.

In the end it is possible some experts may leave...well that is evolution, as in most cases there will most likely be others who will step-up and fill their shoes. It will not be the end of the world or of this community. For a community to thrive, it must not stagnate, but instead continue to evolve and grow.

I like the fact that "Beyond Europe" has been added. It gives us a place to ask our community about other places.

I'd like to see a section for blog and photo links. I know for a while posting those links was a strict no-no, and then that policy was eased a bit. Often I've lost a link to someone's blog that I had enjoyed and had trouble finding it again. Perhaps if we had that, you could delete links that seemed to just be for post-count churning. Then we could still see what our cyber friends are up to without being subjected to a bunch of crap.

Anyway, good job so far. I appreciate the fact that you listen to feedback, and that this is such a friendly place. Thanks to you, Coach Webmaster.

I am also some one who misses the classic view.

Is there any guidance available for using the Search Function? I tried to find a thread of mine from a couple weeks ago, and after getting either no results or a long list of mostly RS articles and irrelevant posts, I finally just scrolled through several pages looking for my own name as "started by."

The Webmaster is doing an awesome job installing the new changes and getting them up and running. As he mentioned earlier, "It is quite complicated", which is certainly an understatement. Thank you to the Webmaster for all his hard work.

I'm finding that, as I use it, the added categories don't make the Helpline harder to use. I still have "preferred" sections to look in which are easy to spot because they are in a different color (because I click on them frequently). The rest I can easily ignore. Rather than being overwhelmed by the different sections, I just go straight to the ones I care about and it has become easier over time. If I was following a thread about a specific country, it is more easily done now because you don't have to wade through topics about France and Italy to find a thread about Spain.

I agree with Keith about Malta. It is a country and needs it own listing.

I spent a week in Malta and agree it is a fascinating destination, but it isn't on the radar for most travelers. I understand having a separate section for every country; however, places like Malta will get only one or two questions every blue moon. Though I think I can be of use to someone who's thinking about a trip there, I am not going to check it every day to see if there's a question. And I imagine that if someone posts a question and doesn't get a response within a few days, s/he will be less inclined to use the RS forums in the future.

I don't have any suggestions. It would be better if there was a place for less popular destinations, but I can see that catch-all categories will get posts that should be put in a dedicated section. If a destination like Malta is lumped with a larger place (Italy, in this case), it would just get lost in the shuffle.

Maybe one thing that could be added is required the OP to put the destination country in a separate field when posting to a catch-all section.

Next, I'm repeating my request here that the trip report (and new review) sections be organized by destination. It's too time consuming to scroll through hundreds to find a destination I'm currently planning or considering.

Lastly, many thanks to the Webmaster and staff for all their efforts.

I am still curious as to how small countries in general, not just Malta, will be treated. Will there be an Other list or combined listings for neighboring small countries, such as Belgium and Luxembourg? I guess we find out on Monday.

I have to say I'm really loosing interest in this site! There are far too many sections, sub-sections and I don't know what.... it might look great, it might be great in deciding where to post a question, but as someone who used to answer questions, I find that I'm responding less often simply because I could not be bothered to visit all the different sections.

I'm, sorry, Jim - I value your input.

Many of us feel the same way. Tomorrow starts the week of destiny. Let's see what develops.

I'm hoping that the web developers have taken onboard the thoughts behind the comments here and come up with something that is both good for the new posters and questioners, and good for the people who take the time to provide the free advice. I'm sure that they already have seen the exodus of some of the best posters - has anybody seen Harold recently?, among others - and realize that if the experts leave the questioners will simply be talking among themselves in a big empty room.

"I'm sure that they already have seen the exodus of some of the best posters - has anybody seen Harold recently?, among others - and realize that if the experts leave the questioners will simply be talking among themselves in a big empty room."

But Nigel, according to one person who loves the new format and has said so repeatedly many times, it's okay if the old timers leave. That will just leave the format to new, presumably younger, people.

If the old timers* (Nigel, but many others, too) leave, this site will never again be of the same quality. That would be terrible.

*Edit: Let me correct myself and call them "the long-time posters", as Nancy has correctly phrased it, several posts below. Sorry, guys, no offense meant.

"If the old timers (Nigel, but many others, too) leave, this site will never again be of the same quality"

Exactly right. That's why some of us (who are not adverse to change and improvement) are concerned by the sweeping changes and what the consequences could be.

Losing a lot of long-time regulars is not a change for the better. I've noticed that Swan is no longer posting...

It's OK if the old-timers depart and leave the forum to "new, younger"posters???? What is so great about youth? I cannot imagine any young person matching Nigel's wisdom and kindness. Most of the detailed, accurate information on this forum comes from the long-time members, Nigel, Lee, Frank, Ken, and others. If the board is fragmented into different countries, much of what they contribute will be confined to one or two forums, and not seen and appreciated by all. That to me is why this forum was better than Tripadvisor, and why it fostered a sense of community. I believe that may be lost with the new format, with individual contributions scattered all over..

From what I have seen, there is one person who is completely happy with the new format, because now he can attend to his one country.

I wonder if any thought has been given to creating an archive of the To the … sections. You couldn't' post new questions or answer anything any more, but you read the responses. And if you had more question, copy the URL and put it in the appropriate forum.

As to parsing the forum into more threads, I think that this is part of balancing the needs of question posers and questions responders. I suspect that this is a balancing act and I appreciate the web masters considering both perspectives.

Lastly, TA does have community. I know many of the posters on the Wisconsin forum. And, I've learned who many of the NYC posters are. I know the difference between those two communities as well!

Pam

Very subtle S###a (not). So now belittling is raising its head. So much for a great community and open-mindedness. I as well as everyone else here are entitled to their opinions, but so be it, I can take it. I for one will stick with this forum even if it reverts back to the old way...I am not one to take my toys and go home just because things don't go my way.
If you took the time to read my post you might have seen that I was not celebrating or encouraging anyone to leave this forum.

Pamela, I totally agree that Tripadvisor has nice communities within the individual forums-- cities, states, etc. I like the Venice forum, as well as San Francisco and Yosemite. And when I was planning a trip to Spain I used the Barcelona forum alot. Nice people. But those citu forums have a limited audience, not world-wide. It works because Tripadvisor has millions of members worldwide, so even for individual cities like Venice or San Francisco or New York, there are plenty of people to contribute and form a "community.". Will you find a community within the Scotland forum here?

A***, sorry if you felt offended and I have removed the name of the country so you are not identified. You might want to remove your post. I did not claim you were the one who said old-timers should give way to new, I was referencing Andrea's comment about old versus young people. I have no idea who she was quoting. . All I said was that one person here is completely happy with the new format, but that has nothing to do with encouraging old-timers to leave.

S****a. Why should I remove a response to your original under-thought comment.
This thread was started to ask for constructive input, not childish wailing and doom. BTW I never have said I was completely happy with the changes and actually have suggested some.
I happen to love Austria and am not offended...I comment and give my answers to things I know about. I also have given advice on other threads as well, but I confine my comments to actual knowledge or at least try to give someone a link to which may be helpful.
I have faith in this forum and (I will reiterate)if some experts feel they cannot move forward with the new scenario, I will miss them, but I am very confident others will step-up...maybe not with the sage wisdom of their predecessors, but there will be experts who will come to the plate.
What? are you nervous about my Broncos taking out the Seafish? (:-)

Webmaster, Are you removing postings ? I posted a comment on this forum a week or so ago and several of the following posters agreed with me. I can not find either mine or the others now. Just curious if that is going on, and if so, why?

To me it is really annoying to have to go down on my iPad to last posting, we were used to be able to go to the next page on a posting.Webmaster,please correct this. i also thiink there are too many sites

Call me surprised. The Webmaster has said this whole Helpline is a work in progress, that more changes will be coming on the 20th, yet there is so much wailing about how it is right now. Oh, boo hoo, we don't like this. Are you mature adults or little kids? Can you folks not wait until later on today to see what will be done with it? I am sure that our many comments have been read and are being considered.

I am one of the posters who is happy with the change. It leaves more options, and especially for the newcomer, makes it easier for them to find their way around. How many times have you seen a question, under General Europe or To the West, with a title saying just "trains" and had to waste time clicking on it just to find out that they want info on UK trains, but all you know about it are German trains. If the same question was posted in the UK section, it becomes clearer and they will get more answers.

Yes, I would like to see more countries added, and as the format stays in place longer, we will see the questions and answers grow. I like the divisions on Trip Advisor, as well as the ones on Fodors. Both have forums for transportation, trains, planes, handicapped travel, etc.

Take a look and tell me what is difficult about having a forum divided into countries. Is it hard to find your way around, or is it all very clear? That is what the Webmaster is trying to accomplish here if you all would stop whining and give the guy a chance to finish the job.

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/germany/

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ListForums-g4-i11-Europe.html

I am thrilled to be able to just scroll down to the last posting. I hated having pages that you had to click through. Especially, on some of the really, really long threads.

Lisa, the original poster may have just removed their own question.

Very well put Jo. The webmeister is trying to make this site better and I am happy to see what comes.

Jo --- there is no UK forum any more. That is part of what some people are unhappy about.

I note that in the links above both Fodor and Tripadvisor use a country split of 'UK' and 'Ireland'. Rick Steves' books uses the alternative geographical split of Great Britain and Ireland which would work equally well.

Hm, and let's see, today is the 20th. What time do you think the webmaster starts work there in Washington? It is almost 18:00 here in Germany, so it is 10:00 in Washington. Could you give the guy a chance to have some coffee and read through all your comments before he does his stuff for the day?

Maybe there will be a UK section and maybe there won't. If there isn't, life will go on and 2 months from now, everyone will be used to however this Helpline has evolved and you won't think a 2nd thought about it.

Shall we all meet again tomorrow, same time, same place, so we can critique the new changes?

Well, according to the webmaster's original postings things would be changing the WEEK of Jan 20th. I took that to mean that there might not be a magical change specifically on Mon Jan 20th but during the week, probably in stages.
I've been through major programming changes before and I'm not holding my breath - yet.

Also, I just wanted to say that assuming some of the long-time posters (I refuse to insult them by calling them 'old-timers') are disappearing is a little premature, maybe they're just sitting back and waiting to see what happens, or maybe they're on vacation, or maybe they have other things going on in their lives right now.

Agree with Jo, "The Webmaster has said this whole Helpline is a work in progress."

Also, consider the possibility that many of the changes were requested by Rick Steves himself, and it is up to him what goes and what stays. Don't know how much of a hand he has in it, maybe none.

I just saw on the news that Cataluna is having an independence referendum from Spain. If Scotland is being separated here for political reasons, why not have a separate section for regions breaking away from Spain.

Go Cataluna!!!! If they separate from Spain, they should get their own section. Just as I (and my relatives from Cork) hope the Ireland section only refers to Eire and not the North. (:-)

BTW where the heck is the Island of Jersey webmeister?????

Weld County here in Colorado wants to separate from Colorado and call themselves "Frack till ya destroy all of the ground water ya got!" That definitely deserves its own section, (make sure you bring a mask and a high capacity gun magazine) enter at your own peril! (:-)

Webmeister...where is the Austria Review section? Will you please drink about 10 more Red Bulls (an Austrian original) and take care of business? (:~>

What about most eastern Europe countries?
They do not get to be part of the new system?

I understand people saying it will be time consuming to answer...But I think I like the new setup.
It was not so easy to get info about a specific country without going through pages and pages of questions.

Lets see what tomorrow brings!