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Transportation Planning

My husband and his brother will be travelling to Europe in August of 2020 to retrace some of the path of the 4th Canadian Armoured Division during WW2, a unit their Dad served with. They will be flying into CDG, taking the train to Caen and picking up car there. They will utilize a car for their time in Normandy, travelling to Dieppe, Arras with day trips To some of the WW1 sites. We realize that there is a hefty fee to leaving your rental in a country different than the one you rented from, and so are thinking of dropping off the car at the train station in Arras, and taking the train on to the next destination in Belgium. They are hoping to tour areas around Bruges/Moerbrugges, Adegem, Eekloo etc., before travelling to Bergen Op Zoom, Wouwsce Plantage, Roosenthal, etc. and then on to Fallingbostel Germany. The distance between the two latter locations is about 500km, too far to drive, and so they are thinking of doing short term rentals in Belgium & Netherlands, taking the train to the area around Fallingbostel, and renting a vehicle there, flying out of the nearest airport, realizing they may need to fly from perhaps Hanover to the closest International airport (unsure which at this point). We would appreciate your input as to the best way to proceed to put this puzzle together. Thanks for your help.

Posted by
4684 posts

No direct trains from CDG to Caen, you have to go into central Paris and get the train from Gare Saint-Lazare. The most convenient route is probably the Roissybus express bus service, which runs non-stop from CDG to the old Paris Opera, which is in easy walking distance of Saint-Lazare unless you have large amounts of luggage.

I would drop the car off in Lille rather than Arras, as from there you can get either a high-speed train to Brussels, or a cross-country train directly to Bruges (usually changing at Kortrijk). If you dropped the car off at Arras station you'd be getting the train to Lille from there anyway.

My personal suggestion for your transatlantic flight is to go by train from Fallingbostel to Frankfurt Airport - the airport has its own station which is served by long-distance trains to many parts of Germany.

Posted by
11127 posts

Fly into CDG, pickup rental car, drive to Caen or where ever you want to stay in Normandy, but if you prefer not to drive so far, then overnight at Les Andelys..
We traced my father’s WWII footsteps In and from Normandy, very rewarding.

Posted by
4077 posts

Off topic, but I hope you post some trip reports of the Canadian WWI sites. That's high on my priority list. Not my wife's though so I need to gather a lot of information to sell her on the idea.

Posted by
69 posts

Thanks Philip, Suki. Yes, train from Gare St. Lazare to Caen (train station) is the plan. Made the mistake on a previous trip of picking our car up a CDG, and the delays due to traffic, construction, accidents was brutal. I like the idea of dropping the car off in Lille as the high speed train is definitely our preference. Also, thanks for the info on Frankfurt Airport. We are really trying to tie in car/train station/airports to allow for easy transition and for drop off/pick up of vehicles as required.

Suki - I agree. Tracing the paths of our WW1 and 2 heroes makes the trip so meaningful and moving. My husband and I made a similar trip in July, and had our grandsons join us mid trip. To be able to share this experience with them was profoundly moving. Something you need to experience to understand. Thanks for the information. Much appreciated.

Posted by
69 posts

Allan. An extremely rewarding experience, one you won’t forget. Also, there’s so much more to see than just ww1 or 2 related sites. Am sure your wife would enjoy as well. Will pm you.

Posted by
4684 posts

Also note that there are two different stations in Lille - Lille Flandres for the local services, including the direct ones to Bruges, and Lille Europe for high-speed trains. They are within easy walking distance, but it's far enough to make a difference if you are pushed for time.

Posted by
69 posts

Thanks Philip. Good to know, especially when you’re short on time, and trying to make a connection (been there, done that) 😰

Posted by
4037 posts

Armed with Google or one of its competitors, you can find plenty of sites about Canadians in the European wars. The government and the Commonwealth Graves Commission (a remarkable operation) pay serious attention to battlefields which, although far from home, helped shape the nation. Here are some resources to start with:

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/defence/caf/militaryhistory/wars-operations/wwi/national-historic-sites.html

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/pdf/publications/canada-remembers/FWW_Memorials_France_e.pdf

https://www.cwgc.org/

https://www.holland.com/global/tourism/holland-stories/liberation-route/historic-sites-in-holland.htm

(Canadian troops played a major role in the 1944 liberation of the Netherlands. That country's marking of the 75th anniversary in early May will in part celebrate that involvement.)

However well informed, visitors to the Normandy beaches can benefit from an organized day tour's information and context. Some of the commercial tours focus on the Commonwealth sites, including the crucial tank battles around Caen., where there are few remnants and monuments to see but lots of stories to be told.

The Museum of the Great War -- which for the French is WW1 -- is a fairly new establishment an easy drive from Paris. It concentrates on the experiences of the average soldier, and civilians, experienced the war. So there is little Canadian content, but many insights to be gained. Awkwardly, there is another museum with nearly the same name. Here is the one I mean:
https://www.museedelagrandeguerre.eu/en.html

Posted by
4796 posts

Just slightly off your precise question, but there is a site named thirdreichruins.com they might want to check out before they go. It has many photos taken during or just after WWII, and then photos of the same places taken in more recent years.

Posted by
69 posts

Thanks Southampton and TC, for recommendations and links. Will definitely check them out! We have two tours booked in Normandy with Dale Booth tours, as well one in Dieppe. Plan is to spend two nights in Arras, to tour some of the major WW1 sites; (Vimy, Beaumont Hamel, NotreDame de Lorette, Thiepval memorial and cemetery, Lochnsgar crater, Wellington tunnels, etc.). The Caen Memorial museum in Caen, as well as numerous WW1 and WW2 cemeteries also on the agenda. Was not aware of the Museum of the Great War. Looks impressive so will research. Thanks again for your response.

Posted by
27054 posts

Since you mentioned museums:

The museum in Caen is extremely large and has broader coverage than most. It begins with some pre-war history (what lead to the war) and extends into the Cold War period. It can easily be a full-day affair, and it can be crowded. I liked it a lot (being as interested in the why-it-happened as in troop movements), but quite a lot of people do not--in many cases, I assume, because they were expecting something focused only on the war. It doesn't help that this museum is quite expensive.

The Museum of the Battle of Normandy on the outskirts of Bayeux is more focused. I haven't seen even one negative comment about this museum on the forum.

The Airborne Museum in St-Mere-Eglise is smaller still, with more limited coverage. It's an older-style museum without a lot of technical bell and whistles, but it seemed to have good coverage of the airborne activities (I'm no expert).

The Memorial to Civilian Life in the Second World War in Falaise is a modern museum with good coverage of Resistance activities as well as what life was like for the general population. The information is well-presented and nearly everything has been translated into English. Falaise itself (unlike Bayeux) was very, very badly battered during the war.

Posted by
1292 posts

Although international drop-off fees can be high, it's often not a problem to hire in one country, cross to another and then return to the first (I stress "often", there are some countries where this is a problem, but not France/Belgium, I believe).

I write that because if your husband follows the advice to drop-off the French hire car in Lille, then it would be easy to do a "loop" into the nearby part of Belgium first. In particular, the 4th Armoured entered Belgium near Leisele, which they liberated, and that is less than an hour's drive from Lille. From there it is a short journey to Ieper/Ypres which is of course an important Canadian/Newfoundland Great War location including many British/Dominion sights such as the Brooding Soldier, Hill 62, Tyne Cot and so on. From Ieper it's a fairly quick drive back to Lille. With perhaps a night's stop, this is a possible side-trip before going to Bruge by railway.

Posted by
9548 posts

Nick makes an excellent point. Something to think about.

Posted by
69 posts

Thank you acraven, Nick, Kim. My husband and I have visited the Caen Memorial Museum in the past, and found it to be an amazing place. They are hoping to visit as well. As you say acraven, it provides a very comprehensive overview of the history of the war, before, during and after. We were aware of the museum in Bayeux, but never visited, so it may warrant a few hours as their Airbnb is in Bayeux. We were also unaware of the museum in Falaise. They will be in Falaise on their tour with Dale Booth, and have plans to visit the museum at Mont Ormel that is dedicated to the Battle of Falaise and highlights the actions of the Poles and Canadian Grenadier Guards, so they may not make it to the one in Falaise due to time limitations. Good to know about it however. After much research into the feasibility of train travel with two short term rentals, they have decided to lease a vehicle for the whole trip, and simply drive their route. The benefits of lease vs rental, and the convenience of having the vehicle for the whole trip without worry about train connections, is one of the many positives of leasing. Thank you all for your great advice. Their trip is coming together very nicely, and it promises to be a very unique and moving experience as they follow the path of their Dad and the 22nd Armoured Regiment (CGG) from Normandy through Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany. Once again, thanks to everyone for your input and suggestions. Very much appreciated!!