Traffic Violation Help

$22.12 sounds more like a parking ticket than a speeding ticket.

And it seems unlikely that any government would mail a ticket invoice overseas.

Sorry I have no idea other than perhaps to ask the rental company to whom they sent your information.

As to surprises, well that can happen when you enter any Schengen country and your passport is scanned.

Tell Hertz to send to the jurisdiction your correct address and you will gladly pay the ticket directly to the jurisdiction. You can also dispute the charge with Hertz on your credit card. Hertz will then have to produce the ticket documentation of the charge to your credit card company which they will provide to you. You have made it sound like the charge is from Hertz and not the jurisdiction. If that is the case, then apparently if it is legit, the ticket has been paid and Hertz is asking for reimbursement. Is it a speeding violation or parking? If it is worth your time, I would keep challenging it through your credit card company. It would not surprise me if it is a franchise doing some padding to their bill. It has happened before because most people just pay it without documentation and assume it is legit. Hertz certainly will have a document from the jurisdiction. It does sound suspicious, especially the wrong country and the fact it was across the street where you picked up the car. Above all Hertz Corporation USA should be notified if you find it is a phony charge. Keep us informed of the outcome. Good luck.

I appreciate that you want to pay the fine.

To me the amount sounds more like the charge / fee from Hertz that they have to operate a fine request for you, not like the penaly itself. Better re-check that.

After that the easiest way is really to ask Hertz again to get a copy of the letter to pay the fine.

If the amount is the fine and not the Hertz fee: Kehl am Rhein is located in Germany. From the amount it could be a speeding issue, see catalogue of speeding fines in Germany. If you know it was Kehl am Rhein (Germany) you can ask the Bußgeldstelle (fine office) based on plate ID of the rental car if they have a ticket open. Contact data of one employee there. Phone : +49 7851 88-3451. I do not know if this employee speaks English. Otthers are listed here.

This kind of thing is why we no longer consider rentals in Europe. Too many tickets. Too much hassle. You never know for months after the trip if a ticket is in the mail. And many places in Europe use automatic radar for speed checks.

Thanks everyone. Hertz says it's the fee they charge to provide the information to the locality. We can try calling them again for more information.. hubby won't be happy because he called twice with hold times over an hour on each. I guess if they can't provide any more information, I'll have him dispute the charge.

We've rented cars in multiple countries and never had a ticket.. which honestly shocks us because some of the roads through Tuscany have speed cameras every few hundred feet it seemed and the speed limit would change every 10 feet sometimes!

Mark - Thank you for posting the fines.. they are considerably more reasonable than I was expecting! I can't imagine we could have been going that fast considering it was bumper to bumper traffic through Kehl and quite a ways outside of the city.

This kind of thing is why we no longer consider rentals in Europe. Too many tickets. Too much hassle. You never know for months after the trip if a ticket is in the mail. And many places in Europe use automatic radar for speed checks.

I've been renting cars for years throughout Europe. I've received two speeding tickets during this period, both completely avoidable and fully my own fault. I've never been stung or subject to a scam and so what if automatic radar is used, no-one is forcing you to break the speed limit, you choose to do so and take the risk.

You make it sound as if you're being picked on whilst doing nothing wrong!

You make it sound as if you're being picked on whilst doing nothing wrong!

Nonsense. What I meant is what I said - if you rent a car, you get surprises. That's my full comment. We no longer rent - we take trains. Much more relaxing, and we get to meet locals on the train.

There is a post in the Bosnia-Herzogovenia forum about actual police scams, in which rental vehicles are targeted for scammy lies about violations in search of bribes. This kind of thing happens in Mexico as well. Again, using the train or private drivers solves the problem.

Paul - We love trains as well and took multiple on this trip, but we rent to have the freedom to stop at all the tiny towns. This trip we enjoyed a farmer's market in Freiburg along with one of the best sausages with homemade mustard and sauteed onions for breakfast.. totally worth the potential ticket cost for that alone! We are fully aware that there might be surprises (especially with a speed demon for a driver) and aren't overly worried about the cost if it's legitimate.

If Hertz had told you it is an administrative fee for providing your address to the ticket issuer, yet the they did NOT provide the correct information, I think the credit card company (in a dispute situation) would agree with you that Hertz charged you for a mistake on their part (and that you do not deserve to be charged for them to provide INcorrect information. If Hertz subsequently provides the ticker issuer (and can also inform you of the details re: the ticket (which city, who to contact, the amount of the ticket), thereby correcting their original mistake, they they MIGHT have earned their $22 at that time.

It is not a huge amount, but I would file a dispute with the credit card company and let them iron it all out. If you have never done a dispute before with credit card, they will typically suspend the charge until it has been resolved one way or the other. You may have to submit copies of your correspondence with Hertz, and they would contact Hertz, and Hertz would have a certain period of time to respond, and if they fail to respond, then you are permanently credited the $22.12.........again, that seems to be the typical procedure.

My opinion, for what it is worth.

Nonsense. What I meant is what I said - if you rent a car, you get surprises.

That's not true. I've been renting cars for years and never had any surprises other than the two speeding tickets but then again they weren't entirely unexpected but completely avoidable and I'm certain I'm not alone.

Whilst I won't go as far to claim that scams do not occur they are relatively rare in the grand scheme of things and are certainly not a reason for people to forego renting a car particularly if they're nervous about the prospect in the first place. It's no different to the plethora of pickpocketing and other scam claims which results in people such as another poster on this forum worrying whether to wear her wedding ring in Barcelona.

Personally the benefits of renting a car far outweigh those of travelling by train but much of it comes down to where you're travelling and how you intend to spend your time.

It is not a huge amount, but I would file a dispute with the credit
card company and let them iron it all out.

Keep in mind that the Fair Credit Billing Act requires that you make a good-faith effort to resolve a problem with a merchant before disputing a charge with the credit card company. If you have not said to Hertz, "I think your charge is inappropriate and should be refunded," you would technically be violating the law that governs charge backs (though there are no criminal penalties for this, of course).

Also keep in mind that the credit card company is not the final arbiter of whether a charge is justified or not. They are just the final arbiter of whether the payment is made through them. If the credit card company finds in your favor, they remove the charge from your credit card account, and bow out as a part of the transaction. If the merchant still feels the charge is warranted, they can pursue the charge after the credit card company makes its decision, including turning you over to collections. Would Hertz do that over $22?
I don't know, but they do it for some dollar amounts.

See this article from the Elliot Advocacy website: https://www.elliott.org/help-yourself/hertz-dispute-ended-in-collections/

I doubt you could win a dispute for Hertz’s administrative charge. it just provided some municipality with your information and is a legitimate charge. When I was notified by Avis a few years ago, I was told where I received the citations. Hertz should be able to at least tell you that. With me, I received one infraction, but never received an actual ticket from the other municipality, Also, while Hertz overseas is a separate company from Hertz U.S., Hertz here at be able to get the municipality information from Hertz there. Otherwise, keep emailing Hertz where you rented the vehicle.

Disputing with the credit card would definitely be last resort. The first person that my husband talked to at Hertz freaked out because the paper receipt they received was in French and she just kept telling him she couldn't help him because she didn't know the language and basically "too bad so sad". He finally convinced her to email it to us.. and low and behold, it was all in English, ugh. So he called back to see if he was missing something and the second person couldn't really tell him anything other than they have a language option when they send emails.. but they didn't know anything about the charge. I'm not expecting great results, but I'm sure that if we tell them they have to come up with some kind of proof of a legit charge, they'll figure it out.

Every car rental contract, including the one you signed, includes the statement that the company will charge the renter an administrative fee on every ticket -- €20 (converted to $22.12) isn't bad.
If Hertz provided an incorrect address to the jurisdiction, did you provide them with the corrected address so the citation can be mailed to you (at no additional administrative fee) ? Our experience was that a citation is mailed promptly in France, and the accompanying instructions for paying the fine online are clear.

The citation will provide date, time and location of the offense -- if the time is before you picked up the car, send a written (or email) protest to Hertz that the offense is NOT chargeable to you.

Disputing with the credit card would definitely be last resort.

Disputing with the credit card company would be my FIRST choice. It is the only way to get you documentation if you think it isn't legit. The credit card company will require the Hertz location to provide copies of everything from the jurisdiction. If you think it is legit, just pay it.

You have to dispute within 60 days (credit card company), at least that was the rule years ago.

Worst case scenario is you legitimately never received the actual infraction and therefore could not pay it. Unless you returned to those countries and got one in the same jurisdiction, I doubt anybody would even know. Try to get it straightened out, but if you can’t get anything from Hertz in a reasonable amount of time, then I’d just drop it. All you can do is try.

Just wanted to update this. We received a letter through Hertz regarding the fine (from the city of Kehl). Hertz states that they passed along our information and that the city should send us something.

The letter from Kehl (from what I can translate) shows that we were going 88/kph in an 80/kph.. so a little over 4 mph over the speed limit... which is nuts to ticket for considering all of the factors, but apparently they don't play around. From what I can tell, the fine is 10 euros (so less than the charge from Hertz for sending them our wrong address). It definitely could be worse, but for future reference for anyone driving around that area, the speed cameras are NOT visible like they are in Italy. The speed limit signs are also few and far between and we drove in Kehl for less than 10 minutes while we were getting to the autobahn. Guess next time we're in Germany, we'll drive like Grandma :)

it may not be a great deal in absolute terms, but 88 in an 80 is ten percent over the limit. You need to be aware of all the non-numeric speed signs as well, like town limits (yellow sign or green is different), end of town limits, national speed sign depending on type of road, etc. If you had just relied on the signs you could have had a problem.

Neither the French nor the German cameras are marked, although signs in French or German respectively do warn of a camera zone. The camera or cameras can be anywhere in that zone, and neither even give that warning for mobile cameras.

shows that we were going 88/kph in an 80/kph.. so a little over 4 mph over the speed limit... which is nuts to ticket for considering all of the factors, but apparently they don't play around.

What other factors? Why was it nuts? What do you want the leeway to be...10kph, 15kph, 25kph? Where would it end? You can't simply decide on some arbritary figures when the whole process is automated. I got clocked in Spain once going considerably fast on a lovely stretch of motorway, almost no other traffic and in perfect weather conditions, I was driving a nice Mercedes that are easy to drive too fast. It was perfectly safe (I've undertaken police driving courses) yet I got penalised. Entirely my own fault, I knew the limits, I chose to exceed them and I accepted the fine.

So, you were doing 88 in an 80 zone.

This is another reason why I have lost my taste for car rentals. In the USA, we have the "casual driver" rule that you have a 10 MPH cushion - you can drive up to 10 MPH over the limit, and you won't get a ticket. I have passed cops doing speed checks doing 5 MPH over the limit. I have been passed on the road by cops doing more than 5 MPH over the limit.

But that's the USA. What's the "cushion" in Germany? 0 KPH? 4 KPH? Clearly in your case 8 KPH over the limit was outside the "cushion". What about Italy, France, UK, B-H? What are their cushions?

I guess 0 is a safe guess, but there are other issues, like parking.

What other factors? Why was it nuts? What do you want the leeway to be...10kph, 15kph, 25kph?

The state of Florida legally gives a 5mph buffer with a few exceptions (example- no buffer in school or construction zones) to allow for calibration errors in a vehicle's speedometer before a speeding ticket an be issued. Which seems to be a fair approach.

Speedometers here typically exaggerate the speed by a few kph. If the police reports your speed as 88kph, the speedometer probably read over 90. So stick to the speedometer reading, and speed check radars won't get you.

I believe the speed that is used for determining the fine will have the safety buffer applied, whatever it is in the given country. I would be very surprised if it was 0. The OP most likely wasn’t doing 88, but 88 plus the “cushion”, which then got subtracted.

The "cushion" is 3 kph for a speed up to 100 kph and 3% over 100 kph. So the OP drove actually 91 kph. A penalty of €10 for that is a bargain. I wired €60 recently to the Italien police for a speed excess of 3 kph (so actually probably 6) just outside Ravenna.

I am a big advocate for obeying the speed limit, but in many places in the US(I haven't driven in Europe), if you drive the speed limit, you will get run over even if you're driving in the far right lane. Yes, I'm talking about you, Atlanta.

Knowing the size of the "cushion" is very helpful, and I will remember that. I'm 67, and probably will be barred from renting soon. My wife is 70, 71 in 1 month, and is probably getting near that point of "no rent". So we usually take trains, but there are places where trains or busses are not enough.

A lot of folks travel to foreign lands for the "cultural experience".

I appears that American drivers experience the cutural shock of speed limits in some European countires are maximum speeds, not the minimum speed experienced in America. To quote Charles Laughton as Javert in the 1935 film version of "Les Miserables": "Right or wrong, the law is the law and it must be obeyed to the letter" spoken before as he walks off the end of a pier rather than apprehend Jean Valjean.

And on the autobahn slower drivers drive right and proper driving is not to pass on the right.

Where did you get the ban on renting a car. Another website lie by people who
just sit around knowing nothing about what they write about.

Some agencies in a number of countries will not rent cars to drivers aged over 70. It's not a lie.

I called Auto Europe and they have no sure policy. Keep on renting.

5 seconds of googling to Auto Europe's website says that there are age policies in place, they are not set by Auto Europe but set by the individual countries. https://www.autoeurope.com/travel-tips/rental-car-age-requirements/

I have no idea why people are getting so huffy about this. I know a number of older people who have had trouble. And, quite frankly, older people should begin to ask themselves "Should I be driving?"

We take trains at this point or busses. They are stress-free and give us the opportunity to meet local people. And we have had no trouble getting from one place to another. There are a few places with poor connections, but generally that is not a problem.

And we do not 1) waste time and money on parking 2) have to figure out the use of mapping apps 3) have to work with traffic tickets.

USA citizens reflexively think of car rentals. If you have 3 or more in your party, if you have small children in your party, if you are heading for the countryside, a car is needed. For many USA travelers, this is not the case.

Sorry JC but that is my opinion.

To claim that someone is lying about being barred from renting a vehicle from some agencies due to their age is not an opinion it is a falsehood. For example, Thrifty, Sixt, Budget, Enterprise and Europcar either ban drivers aged 70 and over in some countries, or demand a hefty fee.

The irony in claiming people write about things they know nothing about is striking in this case.

Sorry call it lie, misinformation or what ever wrong is wrong. Keep writing you can justify wrong.

Which is exactly what you're doing! Christ, just do a bit of research and you'll find out for yourself. No-one has claimed that you cannot rent a car if you're aged over 70 but there are a number of agencies that don't rent to over 70's, it's usually country specific.

Save further embarrassment and look it up for yourself rather than continue to make incorrect assumptions.

not to stir the pot, but just a small fact - my father was renting cars in England (a small local outfit in the Cotswolds near his house) and in Naples, Italy, (a major but I don't remember which) when he was 82.

Nigel, as I mentioned, not all agencies apply an upper age limit hence your father was able to rent. However if he was in Bulgaria then he wouldn't be able to as the upper age limit is 70 as is Croatia and Malta whilst in Greece and Ireland/N. Ireland it's 75 and there are other examples.

The point being that no-one has claimed that anyone aged 70 or over cannot rent a car but rather there are countries and rental agencies that do apply an upper age limit, many from the age of 70, so for TravelMan to claim that it's a lie that some agencies apply an upper age limit is itself a lie. He appears to have gone quiet on the subject, perhaps he's done his homework.

Well, I think it's clear from the thread where the truth lies, so we don't really need to worry that someone will stumble on this thread later and be misinformed by it.

Geez, we must all be old geezers to get so heated over this age thing.

https://www.autoeurope.com/travel-tips/rental-car-age-requirements/

This link gives a table. In the table, it is clear that (as some above have stated) that there are age limits in some countries but not others. These include (from the table, not my nether portions) Croatia, Bulgaria (70); Greece, Ireland (75); Portugal (80), Hungary (85); Finland (97). So, if you are older than the limit but have not rented in these countries, you probably did not encounter a limit. On the other hand, some have encountered limits.

So, in this case, it is possible that both "limits exist" and "there are no limits" are true, depending on going to different countries.

This whole discussion is kind of ridiculous. Instead of looking stuff up, people just assert their beliefs. Well, age limits are not beliefs, nor are they amenable to persuasion. If there is a limit, it will be applied.

Don't get mad, google "age limit on car rentals in europe". The table cited came up as the second entry.

As to the experience of JC's father at 82, he rented in UK and Italy, which are not listed as having limits.

Not to beat a dead horse but we were in Bulgaria last year at this time. My husband was 75 years old and he drove our rental car. Maybe different rental companies have different policies. It doesn't seem it's a country wide policy.

It's possible the table isn't accurate or is not totally up to date. But the economic situation in Bulgaria is not good, I believe. I wouldn't be shocked if a rental-car company decided to rent to someone over a local age limit. Revenue is revenue, after all. If an issue arose, I'm not sure who'd be in trouble, an over-age driver or the company that facilitated the law-breaking.

As to the experience of JC's father at 82, he rented in UK and Italy, which are not listed as having limits.

It wasn't my father, he isn't that old! Another poster made the comment about his father. As for research I believe the table you are referring to is the same one I encountered when searching Google, not all of us rely on guesswork and assumption.

'twas my papa

Was he a rolling stone?

I doubt it, as Nigel has fond memories of his papa. But his papa may well have rented his last car on the third of September, a day he'd always remember.

I have no idea why the "3rd of September" is now to be "always remembered". Is that "Millie Fawkes" day?

Unless I am mistaken there is an age limitation to renting a car in the UK. I believe it is 75, at least that was what I was told by someone in 2001 who had turned 75 the year before.

Another reason I don't rental cars in Europe, don't want to bother with these type of tedious issues, parking tickets, speeding tickets, insurance, etc.

Understood...the 3rd of Sept for that generation is a salient history date.