Tour or Independent 30 day tour of Europe

We go frequently. I'm not sure if 5 countries makes much sense, but Switzerland, Germany, Austria are certainly do-able in 30 days. We were in England, France Germany Croatia earlier this year for 40 days.

It's not that hard. You pick 6 locales. The one piece of advice that I will be pretty firm on is no less than 3-4 nights at a given stop -
this limits useless travel between stops, and maximizes your valuable sightseeing time. You can either set up all your stays (booking.com or other booking locations are good). You plan an itinerary. For each locale, you pick 2-3 major sites per day. Paris: churches, museums, wandering around. Munich: englisher garden, royal palaces, beer gardens. You get a guidebook for each country, which is no older than 2 years. Once you have an itinerary, you can come back and post it here, and everyone will tell you that you are going to too many places, or something.

RS Forum is very good for specific places.

The RS site has a ton of information. For instance, I just found that Rick has itineraries (Watch,read,listen->Rick's Travel Articles->COuntry of interest->Rick's suggested itineraries). He usually gives you 3-4 different lengths of trips. These are great to get you started. Right now in Europe, the Euro is still a good value, so Germany/France are good to visit. In 4 years, the euro may climb back to its prices years ago. I'd go there.

After you narrow down the cities, then you can get better advice. So, start with some specific ideas, around your interests (beer/wine, museums, hiking, famous people, music). That will help.

There's no need for a tour, although they do help. We have gotten more interested in guides, who really do bring value to a stop. But you can do it yourself. The RS tours have very good reviews. You can also do some tour, some alone.

I fall in the independent category. It is cheaper to do it yourself and you get to travel at your own pace this way.
And you can buy local tours to supplement your own independent one as you go. I have done this for hard to reach places e.g. the Most Beautiful Villages in Southern France.

All you need is to read a couple of guide books either the Rick Steves ( not as comprehensive) or Lonely Planet Europe (more comprehensive) both I recommend. Then as you plan your tour you can ask questions about things on forums like these that are not clear in the book or on the web.

If you live in a city with a public library more than likely they have travel guide books from multiple publishers you can take out or sample before making the decision whether to buy one or not. Libraries have made these available to check out in e-book format as well.

Yeah, guidebooks are essential. Rick points out that for $25-$30, you can get a huge amount of information. But it should be current, no older than 3 years or so. The advice to go to the library is good, but the library will stock older books. Get an idea about the style you like, then spend the money - you will spend 3500-4500 on your trip (after airfare). Buy the guidebooks. I also prefer paper.

You are in an envious position! You can do this independently or tour, or a combination of both. To see and experience a lot of the highlights of Europe a Rick Steve's tour is hard to beat. Much of the logistical planning is taken out of the equation and you have the benefit of the best guides in the business. You'll travel in comfort, bypass the crowds to see sites, have local guides that really know their stuff. I see the previous poster once again said that independent travel is cheaper. Yes, you can travel cheaply. But if you really do the math and count as part of the tour your ground transportation, the guides, hotels, meals, entrance to sites, you'd be hard pressed to duplicate this on your own. We've done this both ways and after many RS tours we are continually delighted with our experience and the value. If I were in your shoes I would look at combining a tour with independent travel. The Best of Europe in 14 or 21 days really cover a lot. You could bracket either of those with a week or two of slower paced independent travel. Or you could do a tour of an area that you have not seen such as the Adriatic, Greece, Portugal, Spain and then combine that with an independent foray. You mention autonomy. While the tours cover much there is still ample free time and we love to plan that and scope out restaurants for our free nights. Have fun and safe travels!

patriciamoorewiles, you can do both - mix a guided tour with independent travel too. A guided tour of a city like Rome or London to start and then on your own works, or sandwiched in the middle.

I used to travel independently more, but have grown to appreciate the Rick Steves tours, because they do provide a lot of time on your own, with the benefit of not having to deal the logistics. I had been to Germany/Austria/Switzerland on my own a few times, but did not see nearly as much or enjoy it as much as I did on the RS GAS tour. I'm sure there are other options too. Take a look at their itineraries, and especially the My Way tours which are the best of both ways. They are not the stereotyped tour you might think of.

Either way, there are plenty of guidebooks to help you on the way.

Congratulations! After 19 years of building a business, it sounds like you've earned some time off. Having been to Europe now several times, and having seen some of the "must see" sights -- some more than once or twice :-) our travel style leans more to staying longer at fewer destinations per trip, rather than hitting just the highlights of a place and moving on to a bunch more places for their top highlights. But different approaches work for different people, and as someone who hasn't seen parts of Europe in a while (or at all) i's understandable if you're enthusiastic about seeing lots of places. I believe Rick also offers a "Your Way" tour service, where you pay for the itinerary and maybe some support, but you're till doing it on your own terms.

We haven't been Tour people, partly because of needing to keep to someone else's schedule. It's hectic when you want to linger longer at breakfast, or are scrambling to get repacked in the morning to meet the group at the assigned departure time. We also seem to send a lot longer ay museums ad other sights than many people. If Rick Steves says you can see a sight in 2 hours, we often need 3 or 4. His guidebooks (which include his original Europe through the Backdoor, which covers the top sights in many countries, plus more and more books on specific countries, regions, and cities) are our first resource, but Lonely Planet, Fodor's, Frommer's, and Rough Guide also provide useful information. If you're arranging your own lodging and staying more than just a couple of nights, you can find an apartment or vacation cottage mat www.HomeAway.com .

First, limiting France (a country as big as Texas) to just the southern part is a good start. See Paris, Normany, Brittany, Alsace, and other parts of France on another trip. The "golden rule" years ago was to first get a railpass, but cheap flights within Europe now make air travel a viable option, and you can still take trains, but purchasing a railpass might or might not be better than buying individual tickets for individual train journeys.

We start with a calendar, figure out haw many days we have, list where we want to go an see, and then whittle down our travel wish list to fit our available time. Tours charge a fee for figuring all that out, arranging some (or all) of your sightseeing transportation, lodging, meals, etc. That could be a great value for many travelers. We actually enjoy the planning as a big part of the overall travel experience.

Tours also give you an automatic bunch of travel companions, which may or may not be a good thing, depending on their personalities and your social preferences. Have a great trip, however you do it!

My suggestion would be to take the RS Germany, Austria, Switzerland tour. My husband and I took that when we just started traveling to Europe and we were not too sure about doing it all on our own. It is a fantastic tour and will definitely save you time, which is as good as gold when traveling. After that tour then you can go out on your own and visit Italy and perhaps France. The flights in Europe are a fantastic deal, we just flew from Inverness Scotland to London last month for 38.00 us dollar. We also enjoy taking a train whenever it works in our favor.
I find that a tour and then some independent travel is the way to go! Have a great trip!
Karen

If you decide to travel independently or plan a mix of tours/on your own, you will likely use trains as a part of your travels. The website www.seat61.com will walk you through any rail questions you may have. Congratulations...happy travels!

Speaking of budgets for the month, I would like to travel with Paul (Sioux Falls). If he can keep it to US$3500 - $4500 + air I'm all in. For western Europe our final tally historically comes in around +/- CDN$20K (US$16K) for 30 days, all in (air, accommodation, food, transport, dogs in the kennel). For the record, we aren't usually in anything more than 3 star hotels or B&B's, and the occasional apartment if we're staying longer then 3 days. Our transport is a combination of car and public transport.

If you have Amazon Prime, there are usually a few good travel guides you can virtually check out from the Kindle lending library thing.

I do feel like trains, ferries, subways, rental cars and short flights all can be about the journey as well as the destination, whether it’s taking a proper German sedan down the autobahn, seeing orcas from a ferry in the Seattle area or watching the world pass by from a TGV train.

I’ve used tour itenaries to get ideas for indie travel but figure we would cover half the stops or take 2-3 times longer than the tours do. I’m also a fan of scheduling down time in longer trips and will block off part of the morning or afternoon with a note that says ‘find a park and feed the ducks in the pond if allowed’ which is the reminder to just relax and enjoy a place for a bit.

stan has the right idea - independent travel with a mix of private or small group guides for cities or museums of particular interest.

Well, when we travel, we never pay more than 100 E per night, usually 75 E. 30 days at that is 2200 E. We try to only spend 60-70 E for meals, including wine. We don't do 3 star restaurants, except 1-2 per trip. I just went and tallied up our expenses, which we keep on a spreadsheet. We left May 4, returned June 12. Spent 6550, or $175/day. For 2 people.

This was for 40 days. For 30 days, it would be $4750.

We did not pay for 5 nights of stay in France (gift from a friend), which probably saved us $400-$500. We spent $130/night at the first place due to conference housing, which was more than we would have spent. We never paid more than $100/night after the stay in England - we paid as low as $45 in Leipzig. In Sibenik, Croatia, we stayed at a resort for a conference, and it was $75/night. Some expenses on the trip were included in the cost of conferences so fair market value is a little low.

Maybe my first estimate of $4500 was low, but you can do stuff for under $100/Day per person if you are doubling up in rooms. You don't need a hugely expensive dinner every night. That cost account does not include airfare, which would add some - mine was covered, my wife's was not. We don't have dogs, so we save on kennel fees.

You don't say what time of year you're considering for this trip. That will make a difference in costs, packing, what and how much you can see and when. It will also make a difference in your selection of lodging and whether or not you need air conditioning.

I've done two combo trips. The first was an RS week in Istanbul and 5 weeks in Greece with my husband in 2014. I planned the Greek part, but was at a total loss about Istanbul.

The second was a solo trip this past summer which was built around the 2-week RS Village Italy tour. I preceded it with 6 nights in a Rome apartment, 2 nights in a B&B in Ravenna and 5 nights in an apartment in Venice, and followed it with 3 nights in a hotel in Milan. I planned the before and after parts, but the Village Italy tour itinerary was so attractive and complicated that it was well worth the price.

Depending on how long "many, many" years is, whether you plan everything yourself, do a tour or 2 or decide on a combo itinerary, you will have lots to learn about European travel. You've gotten many suggestions for resources already, but this RS website has lots of quick, succinct information to get you started with the nuts and bolts that apply to just about anywhere you might visit in Europe.

No matter where you go, when or how, you're going to have a blast with the planning as well the travel.

Congrats!

We have never taken a tour - I would hate to stick to a schedule. We enjoy lingering at cafes and people watching or the ability to change our plans mid trip if we want.

Independent travel can seem overwhelming to the new traveler but there is so much information available these days one can be well informed prior to leaving the country.

The helpful folks here are one of the best resources for practical information .

I started out travelling to Europe as an independent solo traveller, I still do that mostly when I don't travel with family. In England, Austria and Germany I do solo travelling, in France solo and with family, depending on the trip and itinerary. Your best bet is to match your travel goals with that of a tour. If you can reconcile the itinerary offered by a tour with your trip goals, all the better.

For 30 days I would do my own itinerary and have done that. I suggest researching the places you want to visit, use guide books from the library, the internet, etc. I use and have used all means of transport in getting around, the ferry, busses, EuroStar, night trains, flying, trains. Independent travel is easy, if others can do it, certainly you can too, just a matter of planning, determination and priorities.

You must get be feeling a little overwhelmed and not quite sure where to start. A month may seem like a long time but it quickly becomes filled when you get down to the nitty gritty of your wish list. This would be quite easy to manage if planning yourself with trains and hotels ...

Vienna - 3 nights
Salzburg - 2 nights
Munich - 4 nights
Venice - 3 nights
Florence - 4 nights
Rome - 4 nights
Cinque Terre - 2 nights
Côte d’Azur - 4 nights
Provence - 4 nights

Congratulations!

Some things to consider: start with a short tour (less than two weeks) and then be on your own, using the acquired skills you get from the tour to smoothe the rest of your stay. Fly into your starting city a couple of days early, to get over any travel fatigue. I once flew into Istanbul and slept for the better part of two days, having worked without a day off for three years.

I like the idea of paying for city tours or museum-specific guides in some places. The RS audio tours are very good, better than some audioguides you can rent onsite.

I like to end my travels with a night or more at my departure city, so I can relax the night before flying back. Flying is so much more stressful than it used to be.

The combined experiences and wisdom of folks responding to your post is impressive. Consider this forum as a highly valuable resource for all your travel questions. Some of us relish planning and implementing independent travels and others appreciate what tours offer. The bulk of posters seemingly travel much slower than is our style. My suggestion mirrors what others are saying in that research is the key. You may wish to consider a combination of an organized tour and independent travel. Have you examined the My Way tours that Rick offers?

Hello Patriciamoorewiles. I think the travel plan suggested by David in Brisbane is very good. But I suggest : do not go to Munich in this trip. Plan to be in Austria more days. From Salzburg, I went to Wolfgangsee (Lake Wolfgang) in the Salzkamergut. That lake is surrounded by Alps mountains that are white at the peaks (in the month May) with white clouds in the blue sky. It looks dreamy. And the very old town St. Wolfgang, at a side of that lake, is charming. At Gilgen (at the north end of that lake) I felt a very good mood (in the month May). Austrian and German people go to Gilgen when they are on vacation. A Ferry boat goes from the water sports area at the Lake (near the town Gilgen), across the Lake to the old town St. Wolfgang.
The first thing for you to do is read the book "Rick Steves' EUROPE THROUGH THE BACK DOOR". Read the first half of that book, it is on how to plan a trip to Europe. It has a chapter on traveling in railroad trains in Europe. And he gives advice on how to enjoy being in Europe.
I think spending thousands of Dollars (U.S.A.) for being in a big bus with 24 people and a tour guide, traveling in Europe several days, would not be money well spent.
At Rome, you and your husband might like to walk across part of Rome with a guide (talking in the English language) for a private tour.
I like the travel guide books on countries in Europe, written by Rick Steves. I think his book on ITALY is very very good. But, I do not agree with all of his "Sightseeing priorities" that are in the introduction in a book. If you want to do more reading about the countries that you will go to, I recommend the Rough Guide books. Those books give understanding of a country, including some of the history.
If you want to know more about Wolfgangsee in Austria, you may send a private message to me.

"I think the money spent for being in a big bus with 24 people and a tour guide, traveling in Europe several days, would not be money well spent." Traveling independently on most trips and yet having enjoyed a number of Rick's tour, I disagree with that opinion.

The majority of folks whom are critical of RS tours and post comments to that effect on this site have never been on one. They all speculate on the perceived downsides but without any firsthand experience. When you take a RS tour and have that first evening meeting you are struck by the number of folks who are repeat customers. I'm sure there are those who take such a tour and find it not to their liking. But, don't knock it until you've tried it. Frankly, your opinion about these tours is worthless unless you have taken one.

You've received some great tips but since you haven't traveled in 19 years, I would also suggest you take a practice trip to a nearby city to refresh your travel skills.

So much has changed and you can practice booking online, reading reviews, picking sites and museums, packing and eating out. Learn your preferences and personal quirks on a short trip. If you enjoy planning that trip, you can tackle your European dream trip. Or you'll know that you want the planning and logistics help a tour will provide.

This site is a great source of information and there are many useful sites.

TripAdvisor.com, fodors.com, seat61.com, walks.com, rome2rio.com, booking.com, hotels.com, airbnb.com, etc.

Plus you can buy tickets online in advance for sites such as the Eiffel Tower and many more!

Enjoy the planning and the trip!

You have received so much great information here already. My two cents is to consider how much you and/or your husband enjoy researching, planning and decision making. For me that is half the fun, but not everyone feels that way. I felt very overwhelmed when I began planning our three week trip, but found so many resources (like this forum!) and ended the trip with a huge sense of accomplishment and boost of confidence in myself for planning an incredible family trip. Don't be scared to go independent simply because it's overwhelming to start - you can do it!

I'd also think about what stresses you out. How will you feel getting off the train in a city and having to learn to navigate new public transportation to find your lodging? Will that feel like an adventure for the two of you or an anxiety producer? And what if there is a mishap (which there will be!) - can you laugh it off and go with the flow?

No matter what you decide, enjoy your travels!!

"...money spent ...would not be money well spent." True, When you get use to doing trips the way you want, tailoring them as you see like it, setting up your own itinerary in the cities to be visited, you don't need the services of an organised tour.

I was thinking what Zoe suggested. Take a starter tour to get used to navigating around in Europe, then do the rest of the trip on your own. We did a solo 16 day trip this summer but that was after taking Rick Steves tours a couple other previous summers which reminded me I can do it myself. If you aren't sold on the idea of guided tours, you could do what we did and make them My Way tours. That way you don't have to worry about booking transportation and hotels for the first part of the trip and can focus on maximizing sight-seeing based on your interests. The Best of Europe covers a lot of ground and you might want to go back to some of the destinations and spend more time on your own.
What time of year are you going? That makes a big difference how much pre-planning you have to do.

You have already received a ton of great advice from all the previous posters.

You say "We are not experienced travelers...etc."
For this reason, I think you are not in the habit of researching hotels, train tickets and attractions in every destination. So I would suggest a tour or several tours because all the planning and reservations are done for you. Or at least, most of it. You will have plenty of time later to travel independently, after you become more experienced travelers.

For this reason, I think you would get the most out of your trip by starting with this Rick Steves Tour: Germany, Austria and Switzerland In 14 Days:
https://www.ricksteves.com/tours/germany-austria-switzerland/germany-austria-switzerland-tour

I would then sign up for one of the Italy tours. Traveling from Vienna (where the G.A.S. tour ends) to your meet-up with the Rick Steves Italy tour by plane or rail should be a snap.
I would browse these and pick one:
https://www.ricksteves.com/tours/italy

I would then browse these and pick one:
https://www.ricksteves.com/tours/france
Loire to the South of France seems to be a good fit for what you are saying you want. Only takes 13 days out of your 30, also.https://www.ricksteves.com/tours/france/south-france
I have a friend who raves about her tour she took, Paris and the Heart of France.

I would then consider flying from where ever your last tour ends to London for a few days. (Or take the train--Eurostar--from Paris to London) Because it is someplace you've been to before, and you can do a couple of days of independent travel or day trips from there. Then fly home from Heathrow.

You deserve a trip where everything works. You catch the right train on time for your next destination. You have hotel reservations already made for you. You have bus transportation arranged for castles or destinations not well-served by trains. Take the easy way out, and line up some Rick Steves tours. After this grand trip, for years to come, you can travel independently using the travel skills you learned on this first trip.

Many of us who plan our own trips read information and plan for a year before starting to book plane tickets and hotels. And that's just for one destination--London and around England. It would be a lot of work for you to research everyplace you'll want to go.

It's fun to research and plan, but for a first trip, I'd take tours. Just my two cents.

I usually plan our trips to England, traveling independently, but in the coming year we will take two Rick Steves tours, just for the luxury of having all the plans made for us.

Take advantage of the direct daylight train service to travel from Munich to Venice, via Innsbruck and the Brenner Pass thru the Alps. No changes !!

ECB 87
Dep 11:34 MUENCHEN HBF (Germany)
Arr 18:10 VENEZIA S. LUCIA (Italy)

Some days totally given over to train travel, sleeping and staring out the window, are the perfect way to recharge mid trip.

I'm in the independent camp...but in a 30 day visit you can do both! A 14 day tour hitting places that maybe are a bit harder to do on your own (to me that is places that are spread out with more difficult transit options. Cities and towns that are very popular are easy to figure out yourself). And then another 14 days of independent travel! If you do this I'd consider the tour first to get used to travel and Europe, getting the confidence to go on your own.

But it really is easy to do on your own! My #1 tip is to get the book Europe Through the Back Door well before you get too deep in planning- this is a "how to travel" book, skills like transportation, money, communication, etc. Then guidebooks and forums like this to narrow down where to go specifically within the large countries you list.

Then my #2 tip is to list your time carefully- factoring in transit and letting you see how much time you really have in a place. Days where you are moving between towns obviously allow for less visiting of sights - so minimize moving so you can see more than train stations! I like 3 nights or more per city, but there are exceptions.
Laying it out lets you see what you have to work with.
Here's an example (just an example off the top of my head for illustration only!):
Day 0 - fly from home to Vienna, sleep on the plane
Day 1 - land in Vienna in the afternoon, sleep in Vienna
Day 2 - visit Vienna, sleep Vienna
Day 3 - same
Day 4 - to Salzburg, 3 hour train, arrive afternoon. Sleep Salzburg
Day 5 - Salzburg, sleep salzburg
Day 6 - same
Day 7 - to Munich, 2 hour train in the late afternoon, arrive dinnertime, sleep Munich
Day 8 Munich
and so on and such.

I would pretty much always recommend independent travel, except in countries where there are serious logistical/security issues (certainly not Italy, France, Switzerland, Germany, or Austria). Do your research carefully and you'll have a trip more closely tailored to your own interests than with any group tour, and for less money. That said, though you don't need help making connections, hiring a skilled guide for specific sites (say, the Roman Forum) is usually worthwhile, compared to walking around with a guidebook, at least for your first visit. Final thought: independent travel requires a lot of advance planning, but it also requires you to recognize that sooner or later you'll miss a train, and it's not the end of the world.

Read a lot of trip reports to get a feel for what a trip is really like.. Only you can determine where you want to go. I have taken trips where I changed hotels every night ( cycling ) which I really liked, but now I spend a minimum of 3 nights in one place, and on the last trip, a week in each place. I would advise against spending all the time in cities, I enjoy the smaller towns the most.