Tour de France 2024 Chat Thread (spoilers inside)

Can’t wait! I haven’t done my research yet to see what the viewing options will be. Last year I was disappointed that so much shown on Peacock and since we’ll be in a hotel again for a major part, I’ll have to figure out how to view it.

The broadest question of course is how is Jonas Vingegaarde? If you haven't seen footage, he suffered a GNARLY crash descending in early April. Smashed a rib into his lung. Jonas V will not have participated in any of the "warm-up" tours before the TdF.

Tade Pogacar meanwhile looks in incredible form. Tade pushed 7 watts per kilo for 40 minutes in the Giro Italia (which he won). Super human!

Tade is now the clear favorite, and and truth be told he's probably my favorite pro cyclist at the moment. There's something charmingly boyish about the way his brushy hair wiggles up through the vents of his helmet, and he's so far been unfailingly humanly kind and professional in a brutally hard sport.

But Jonas is an absolute machine. I think we will see fairly early who's who between those two. Pogacar's team UAE Emirates seems certain to push Vingegaarde early and see if he has recovered into shape.

And of course anything can happen! As real life unfolds over thousands of miles of treacherous racing, there's never any telling exactly what fate will unfurl. I would be most stoked if somehow one of the new crew of uber-talented young Americans made the podium. A bit of a pipe dream probably, but it is starting to feel like this is the turning point year, USA seriously back in the mix. Does Matteo Jorgensen have the stuffing to at least assert himself as a reality at the front of the peloton? Man do I hope so!

Patty at minimum you can follow on YouTube with 40-minute daily race recaps through a variety of organizations. NBC does a pretty good job. Truth be told I don't always have an entire day to sit and watch the whole broadcast :)

The routing this year is kind of crazy! The first stage in Tuscany looks like it was intended as a hardcore winner take all one day mixed-terrain stage race. Straight into the hottest part of the fire. 206km/128m and 3600m/11800ft? People are going to get dropped and washed out of the race in the first 8 hours. Rough!

Also, if you recall the women's tour last year, there were some absolutely harrowing bunch crashes when the peloton seem to fly over their handlebars en masse. Really - the women absolutely charge, so tough the lit of them.
Crashing widely blamed on the narrow farming roads of Alsace that "they would never make the men ride." Well this year the men are getting two of those Alsatian stages almost exactly the same as what the women rode (except for the parts where they were running each other over and flying this way and that). All's fair in love and road rash? Hopefully they get through upright.

And not finishing in Paris! First time in history I think. Because of the Olympics of course. The finish will be in Nice, and a lot of riding will be in the south. It's already hot, so hopefully it's not pushing into dangerous.

Can't wait!

On the scenery front, I'm so looking forward to seeing the Tuscany stage. Really all of Italy - the Northwest/Piedmont should be beautiful.

But also this year they have a couple stages in Burgundy. The long one does the entire wine valley, Macon (I think?) to Dijon, weaving in and out of the valley hillsides. I rode a lot of this route over two days at a much more leisurely pace, two summers ago. So pretty.

And 100's of km's in the hills north of Nice. I don't have much direct experience of that region, very much looking forward to seeing it on the broadcasts.

In Australia, we are preparing for our annual three weeks of intense sleep deprivation. We have live television coverage of every TdF stage but that means staying awake until 2:30am most nights. The rest days are very welcomed here.

Not expecting a lot in GC from the Australian riders but are hoping for a few stage wins.

We keep trying to plan a trip that coincides with the TdF but the best we have managed is to stumble across some women's continental level races. Absolutely amazing watching a team time trial over a mile long cobbled Roman bridge in Merida in 2023. Some of the riders were so light that they were seriously bouncing around.

Interesting to note that it's all about power to weight ratio, meaning GC and mountain riders need to be as light as possible. Just look at how skinny the riders are compared to the Lance years and before that.

A rider when asked about dropping weight: "I don't eat and go to bed hungry." That's how important weight is. Ambien for sleep. I don't know how they do it.

Not expecting a lot in GC from the Australian riders but are hoping
for a few stage wins.

Jai Hindley did well last year! Ben O'Connor flagged a bit. Both out of Perth. Sporty town in a sporty nation!

But Primoz Roglic joined Bora this year. I've read that Hindley will go into this year's tour with the intention of being Roglic's super domestique. Had an "open mind" to it. Will be interesting to see if that sticks if Jai is feeling his legs. But probably - Hindley seems very much the all round good guy.

Mike regarding weight, the GC guys are wisps nowadays. What impressed me is the power they can still generate being that thin. Tade, who is 66 kilos (146lbs) can routinely hold 6 watt per kilo for an hour. That's about 400 watts output. And Tade can do around 460 watts for 4 minutes. I weigh 200lbs and can only hold about half of Tade's 460 over the same time. Let alone what he averages all day, day in day out. If I'm riding 8 hours in a day (very rare for me), it's soft pedaling averaging 140 watts. Like 1.5W/K. TdF guys can go over 5W/K all day.

Most people have never tried to pedal a bike with the same amount of power that TdF riders generate - when you're doing it, trying to push 6W per kilo, it's stunning how much effort it takes. For me to do that, I'm up out of the saddle sprinting at about 85% of absolute capacity. I can handle it for less than a minute before cardiovascular blow up.

They must have to eat quite a lot because that amount of energy doesn't come without burning massive calories. And then to still be hungry must be no fun.

The official Tour de France website (in English):

https://www.letour.fr/en/stage-1

For those who have a VPN to connect and who would be interested, like every years the French television website broadcasts live the raw image and sound from the cameras on the 5 motorcycles, and from the cameras on the finish line.

Each broadcast is selectable

As well as the main broadcast with comments (in French) and images broadcast from helicopter

You must register on the website (it's free)

https://www.france.tv/sport/cyclisme/tour-de-france/

Side question if I may, I’m amazed at the athleticism required to be a world class cyclist but I know very little about the sport actually. Is the Netflix series on the TdF worth watching? Or anything else you can recommend? Thanks

Looking forward to it. Watched every day every year since 2000. Been 2x- in 2003 and 2010.

Lyndash yes, the Netflix's docuseries Tour de France Unchained Season 2 is well worth watching as a warm-up/catch up. It gives good insight into complex logistics and relationships between and within teams. As you might imagine, there are a lot of strong and interesting personalities all around. And the bit of drama that comes when you take a massive group of generally introverted (serious cyclists tends to prefer alone time) but highly competitive people and throw them into a blender.

JoLui I added your official TdF link to the first post, thanks.

Lyndash, if after watching TdF Unchained (there are 2 seasons, season 1 is from 2022, season 2 from 2023), you might also watch the Least Expected Day which is about Movistar, one of the World Tour teams. Netflix is sure to suggest that along with several other programs that feature specific cyclists and teams.

Hank, the pro cycling culture is fascinating to me. As soon as I think I'm a bit of an expert, I'm reminded I'm far from it. I miss Phil and Paul as commentators. They were perfect together. I do like Bob Roll, though. He's a hoot.

Lance was 160 pounds? That's fat by today's standards.

I question if old school guys like Merckx, Indurain, The Badger, Ulrich, etc. would have any chance nowadays as those guys were almost fat compared to today. Froome looked skeletal to me. Anyway, appreciate the insights.

The 19 miles on gravel in the 2024 Tour is not good news for the GC guys, as that terrain could upend everything. Racing on gravel that far makes me shudder a bit. I'd rather have cobbles.

And the drama could be if Sir Mark Cavendish can break Merckx's record with 35 stage wins. Cav is 39. I am doubtful. I was saddened to learn of his very difficult mental issues in past years, although it appears he is fine now.

Cavendish is an interesting figure! Last year I was pulling for him to take the record for stage wins. This year though I feel the current tie with Merckx is about right, cycling universe at equilibrium. Hope it sticks, although it would be exciting to see the record broken too I suppose.

We were unexpectedly able to see Cavendish and Geraint Thomas in 2011 during the London criterium stage of the Tour of Britain. We had no idea the race was in London until we came out of the Underground to find deserted streets. Walked down the Mall to Parliament and there they went. Unfortunately we had to leave and never saw the bunch sprint at the end. But all in all it was still pretty fun.

Cav had the Epstein-Barr virus, which led to chronic fatigue, although he was still racing, albeit quite poorly. This led to clinical depression and an acute sense of worthlessness. I'd imagine this was very difficult for his wife and family, too. This episode lasted four long years.

I am so happy that he is out of that awful hole and will be cheering for him.

This is a tough Tour for sprinters. For someone like Cav I think he has to win in the first eight stages or it will be too late with the mountains, which are often the kryptonite for sprinters and "heavy" riders.

It will be interesting to see the final start list and to see, after a week or so, who is still considered the GC leader for teams like Ineos, Visma, or even Borah.

Pogacar really looks unbeatable relative to the injured GC guys who are either still vague in form (Vingegaard) or showing form but not seemingly at the top despite moments of looking close (Roglic and Evenepoel). Ineos with Bernal and Rodriguez always seem to be a half-step back despite doing a tom of work, so they will be fun to see if they can adapt their tactics to be leaders again.

I'm excited at the Americans coming of age and showing up ready to race and to energize the peloton. These young guys are really stepping up their game.

From a coverage standpoint, it will be Peacock for me, and if it is like last year, I'll gladly opt for the Eurosport commentary feed vs the often painful Phil & Bob coverage. As people, I really like Phil and Bob, and Bob would be great paired off with someone other than Phil (or Christian), but if you spend any time watching "normal" Euro cycling coverage, you come away wishing for something more than just the same US format we've been getting.

Regarding broadcast crew, I think bicycling is a tough assignment. It's a bit like surf contest broadcasting. 6 or 8 hours of mostly not a ton of action that they need to fill day in and day out. So many words just floating around in the air. It's easy to get sick of listening to the same people eventually say the same things over and again.

On a different topic, they crash so much nowadays. It's always been dangerous, but the entire peloton just seems to ride so much closer to the edge now. I listened to a GNC video on the subject, many factors contribute. One factor that is maybe counterintuitive (and just surmised) is disc brakes. They work so much better than rim brakes that when someone emergency brakes in the group, the ripple effect is a lot more harsh and digital.

I feel like I see a lot more sliding out nowadays too. Which is weird because tubeless tires inarguably grip significantly better, and because tire compounds have gotten better and better, even the fastest compounds. I think these guys are just sending it at the edge a lot more.

You get numb to things like seeing a guy go down not too hard and slide out across the road. Ho hum. But the "road rash" they suffer is awful. I can tell you from experience that it's not a scrape but largely a burn. The pavement grinds through your skin and burns it at the same time, even on the minor slides, let alone the fast long ones. And then they ride with the mechanical movements of their joints tugging at the raw fried skin. Risking off the charts pain it they go down on it again. These people are Spartans for sure, including the women!

I’m a big TdF fan and have just watched the Dauphine to get in the mood, as well as the Netflix series looking at the 2023 Tour. I think both of the seasons of the Netflix show Unchained have been excellent. Really good balance between making it clear for people who don’t watch, while giving a great insight into team dynamics for those of us who watch regularly. I wanted to give Ben O’Connor a big hug after watching the episode that focused on him.

However I’m also a huge tennis fan, and of course it coincides with Wimbledon…

And I also have a pesky job that I have to do as I can’t quite retire yet.

So during the Tour, I can’t always watch the full day. I make sure I at very least watch the one-hour ITV highlights show at 7pm every evening, which is a really good example of how to do highlights well. Commentary by Ned Boulting and David Millar, reporting from Daniel Friebe and Matt Rendell. Available on ITVX via VPN if you’re interested in catching up in an hour a day.

Crashing with road rash can be really bad, as in almost impossible to sleep because if you roll over or move the wrong way in bed, it's quite painful. I would have zero hesitation in taking a sleeping pill in that situation, because a restless or sleepless night has a huge impact on performance. Just remember how you feel after a bad night, and then imagine hopping on your bike and racing balls out for 100 or so miles.

I had a bad fall many years ago when a brake cable broke and locked up my wheel. Fortunately my hip was not broken, but man it hurt. I had to lie in bed without hardly moving or something would hurt like heck.

Anyone know if all riders have AC at their hotels nowadays? It would be really unfair if some did and some didn't.

Mike, they do have AC. They stay in generally pretty good hotels nowadays.

Interestingly, prescription sleeping pills are not banned by the UCI, but generally banned in team contracts. Cycling has been such a drug-dirty sport that they are pretty over the top about what's allowed.

Sadly, cycling gets a bad rap for doping - both earned and unearned. Armstrong obviously ruined it for a generation or more of marginal cycling fans, but in some respects, the more the pro cycling peloton is monitored, the more hinky and outright doping behaviors are found. On the flip side, in your traditional sports like MLB, NFL, soccer, etc., doping is just well behind the scenes. It goes on - likely quite rampantly - but we just don't have the eyes on it like we do for cycling. As Operation Puerto revealed, the list of cyclists doping was hand in hand with the list of soccer players doping, but it shook the cycling world and was relatively buried in the soccer world. Similarly, the drugs used by folks like tennis great Nadal to "get through" something like the French Open would NEVER be allowed in cycling, but are "ho hum" in tennis (or the NFL) seemingly.

And the sleeping pill comment is very TIMELY in regards to the Piccolo doping in the news. EF was alerted on his use of a legal but team prohibited sleeping medicine, and then fast forward, he's busted with hgh (definitely illegal in cycling).

Hank and Tom R, I'd think sleeping pills on occasion would be quite important, especially for riders in pain or those who struggle with sleep during competition. As you know sleep is absolutely critical toward performance. I'd only suggest the riders experiment with which pill works best for them early in the season as everyone reacts differently. For me Ambien is great, but others react negatively.

Good to know everyone in the Tour has AC now. I remember the stories from not long ago when drivers would rightly complain about the lack of AC.

I'll step in it regarding Lance. Everyone was on EPO, etc. during that time. Why are only his 7 yellow jerseys now vacated when king of the mountain, young rider, and sprinter still stand in the record books of that time? And to his credit, he has flown all over the world to personally apologize to those he screwed and "looked them in the eye." Also, he was right there with Jan Ulrich when Jan went through numerous personal struggles. Some victims wouldn't meet with him, and that's the way it goes. Still, I applaud the effort, and it's a very American trait to forgive IF the apology is genuine and in person.

On a side note I sort of wish I tried EPO and some of the other stuff just to see how it impacted my performance. Just for one race. I've heard it's about a 10 percent improvement, which is mind boggling.

I'm a big Lance fan, think he was treated pretty unfairly. particularly the USPS suing him for besmirching their reputation and collecting 5 million dollars. I follow his media pretty closely. He's evolved into a pretty solid human being.

But not everybody was doping. There was a set of athletes who were doping. Some teams more some teams fewer. They all knew that they were willfully and grievously cheating. And then there were other who were following the rules and had absolutely no chance. Unfair to the amount of work they all put in toward their dreams. Widespread doesn't make it okay.

I'm not sure about the vacated TdF titles. It might be that if Lance wasn't American, or at least not the brash guy he is, he'd still have those titles. Other known dopers still have their wins. You can't rerun history but I'd love to be able to know what would have happened if he was French!

True enough Nick! Not an easy sport to gain multiple national victories.

Spain has done pretty well in the winning category. Miguel Indurain was a beast - sitting bolt upright and grinding all comers into paste.

The French on the other hand, once the contemporary multinational era started anyway, have had abysmal results since dominating 1975-1985. And no prospects on the horizon. They can't be looking forward to soon 40 years without winning their namesake race!

Hank, thanks for doing this thread again this year! I enjoyed last year!

I also think Tade's hair poking out through every available helmet opening is adorable lol

Rebecca, my wife agrees, although in her opinion Peter Sagan was the hottest.

But she doesn't like their skeletal physique, but we understand why that's necessary for mountain and GC riders.

Sprinters look almost normal as they don't have to drop that much weight.

Hank and everyone else, I'm looking forward to your observations once the Tour begins. I'll be cheering for Cav to get that 35th stage win, but at age 39 doubt it will happen. Sprinting is a young man's game.

Oh yeah, big Sagan fan here...always thought it was interesting that he was encouraged to drop weight to be a GC contender but refused...

Sepp Kuss out, can't get over the Covid enough to race.

Team replacement Bart Lemmen is likely a far lesser cyclist, but quite the interesting guy. Didn't start his career as a cyclist until 28 years old when he was out of the Dutch army. And has some impressive results.

It's a weird story! Hopefully it will be a weird Tour too, those are the best :)

It's tough to see how Visma can pull this one out with such a depleted squad, and Kuss is a big hit to them. Vingegaard - at his prime with a perfect lead up to the Tour - would still be my pick with or without a full team around him. But I think he has to ride his way to form over weeks one and two despite the focus and altitude training of the past several weeks.

I think UAE and Ineos and a few other teams will know that and hope to knock him back in the first week (esp St 4) and make it a hole he will struggle to dig out from. Lucky for him, Roglic is also still riding into form, so maybe Borah doesn't add to the pain that first week.

As ever, though, all GC folks need to make it through the madness of the first few stages and stay out of stupid crashes.

Tom, agree about the first week! The first stage seems like it's going to be bananas, I'll leave it all on the road. One day classic kind of thing. See what Visma's got right away.

Also, just learned this little nugget: it's the first start ever in Italy. I had no idea. I guess the tour has dipped into Italy many times but never started there.

From a touristy perspective, I'd like to see Rimini. An acquaintance who has spent many years traveling in Italy with a focus on wine told me that that area of coastline is the best place left where international tourists generally do not go. Says it's a fabulous place to explore up and down the Adriatic sea.

Here's an insight into Cavendish and his struggles with clinical depression:

https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/the-rouleur-journal/can-you-hear-me-now-mark-cavendish-on-his-new-approach-to-life

To note that Cavendish is a complex individual is possibly the least ground-breaking observation to offer up, but it’s an important one to keep in mind. Often in media coverage, Cavendish has been depicted as moody, brusque and impatient, and while there may be truth to that, he’s also generous, funny and far more approachable than you might at first think. Get him talking about a subject he enjoys and he’ll happily chat away, smiling and engaged. But on the flipside, you quickly know when you’re edging towards a topic he’d rather not get into. Assume you know what he’s thinking and he closes up; ask a foolish question and the bluntness emerges. But again, tell him about your latest achievement, however small, and he’s full of encouraging praise. Don’t take yourself too seriously and he cracks a grin.

Tom R, I'm guessing all the GC guys want their teams up front on the gravel roads.

Crashes are going to happen, I'm afraid, from what I can see just looking at the twisting, turning roads early on.

Ok, impressions and questions from a completely new cycling observer…….. I had no idea how close people are allowed to get to the racers!!! That seems crazy and dangerous to me. I’m almost through with season 1 of the Netflix series. How close are the team managers in their cars to the racers? You see all the footage of them talking to the riders and even riders getting medical treatment from the cars. How does that work?

And is there a typical height of these riders? Are taller riders at a disadvantage? Are bike sizes regulated? And yes, they are so lean. Their chests look like 10 year olds, hardly any pectoral muscle definition, which seems counterintuitive considering what they do.

All good questions Lyndash! I'll pick up a few.

The people along the route sometimes cause problems. The tour creates a festival atmosphere, with many devoted and enthusiastic fans, drinking before the riders arrive.

But from a practical point of view, because they ride +-100 mile stages, it's impossible to barricade the route except in relatively short stretches. And the logistics of somehow enforcing against people who come to far out in the road etc are also next to impossible. So there's not so much that can be done about the people.

And the race is over 100 years old, with people spilling out into the roads as the riders come by for most of that time. The crowd is a feature of the race, not a flaw. Many riders like the crowd. The crowd indicates that they are doing something special. They've dreamed their whole lives about riding through that crowd.

But yes, The spectators are sometimes a problem, even causing crashes at times. There are people who seem to think that their own roadside experience is more important than the racers being able to race. It wouldn't wash in the USA I don't think, but Europe has some different social dynamics around people being tightly packed in public events.

Tall riders have won the TdF, but you are correct that height is generally a disadvantage. Height effects aerodynamics - on average taller people create more drag. And taller people have more non-muscle mass body structure (bones etc) than shorter, which in terms of generating power doesn't help them.

Cycling fast is about energy (measured in watts) balanced against weight (measured in kilos). There is an average optimal body size and type for generating high watts per kilo over a long period of time. So as NFL linemen tend to be optimally big and tall, professional cyclist tend to be shorter and thin.

Upper body mass does very little to help generate watts to the pedals, so it is inefficient weight that slows riders on climbs and also adds to drag - wider chests and arms push more air.

Bicycle racing, as I'm sure you have come to see watching the Netflix documentary, is an incredibly competitive sport. Riders bodies are shaped by years and decades of 4-10 hours a day in the saddle. The training grind turns them into what they are.

And to be sure it's not always psychologically healthy. Some of them struggle with food and weight. You'll see a lot of professional cyclists puff up a bit fat when they retire. Others seem to more naturally have the competition body type without struggle. It's a struggle sport, so much pain and suffering in many ways, both immediate and long-term. I think that's why they absolutely lose their minds when they win a stage - nobody does that without a massive mountain of pain and struggle banked in the pursuit of it.

Yeah, the riders do have the upper bodies of young girls or boys. It's just dead weight up there. Who wants to climb a mountain with any extra pounds? Many the riders are blunt when asked about how they drop weight: "Stop eating."

Hank, I'm glad you're available for Q&A. I'll have some dumb questions for sure. The psychological aspect is interesting to me, especially with riders who really have difficulties when their careers are over, like Ulrich and Pantani. Tragic, really.

For now, who are your picks to win the four jerseys, along with secondary contenders?

For those who are interested, below is the Tour 2024 roadbook (the guide given to all participants in the race with detailed routes and other practical information)

This is the English version. It's a 170 Mb pdf file:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MC1EIbJI-xsip9pid1WMzVyqs_o_NyjX/view?usp=sharing

Good question Mike, I'd be happy to hear a diversity of opinions.

Yellow GC: Pog. Vingegaarde. It's hard to count out the recent Tour winners even though JV is coming off the crash.

Green Sprint: Jasper Philipsen. Mads Petersen. Jasper is the huge favorite. Physically he's probably the best, and he's a little bit mean and a bit of a bully, big pluses in the sprint game.

White best young rider: Carlos Rodriguez. Remco Evenpoel. Tade P is now 24, so white jersey finally up for grabs again.

Polka Dot King of Mountain (fastest climber): this one is tough. The top GC guys could all smash the non-GC contenders who are focusing on the polka dot jersey. But they are busy trying to win the the entire race. Lance Armstrong for that reason has always said that the polka dot Jersey is bs - he or any of his closer competitors could have won it anytime they felt like it, and so the person who wins it is often not really close to the best climber in the tour. Sometimes the GC guys win it - Tade P for instance, won the polka dots both times he won the tour. Other times, like last year its a non-GC guy from a non-GC contending team. The team decides they will shoot for the polka dots. So Lance always felt like it was a JV jersey at a varsity race.

If I have to pick polka dots I'll go with Tade Pogachar and then Jonas Vingegaarde. Outside of those, the rest of the field is a dog's breakfast, largely determined by which teams decide to tap out of the GC race and take a run at KOM.

My picks are super vanilla, obvious favorites. I'd love to hear others opinions, especially out on limbs. Hot takes on the internet are good fun :)

I agree with Lance on the king of the mountains jersey. He's right. Could another jersey replace it, like most courageous or aggressive? Something like that? The problem would be a lack of objective criteria.

Best senior rider? Not sure what age to pick for that. For a sense of humor a red lantern jersey for the last place rider, although I understand that is actually competitive sometimes in a funny way.

Will Cavendish get his 35th win? That may be the elephant in the room story.

Also, Podocar, a name I'll never be able to correctly pronounce, has "fully recovered from COVID 19." What does that even mean? About half of those infected have few if any symptoms, while for most others it's essentially a cold. As a team director I'd be tempted to put any rider with a cold/COVID on antibiotics just in case. Once a cold escalates into a sinus infection or bronchitis it's a real problem, so not worth that risk.

Well, I'm not much into it as you all, but seeing the fervor here makes me want to at least follow along. :-)

Hank, I did a search on Rick Steves’ Website this morning on “Tour de France,” both under France and under General Europe, and didn’t get a result that any thread for this year had started, so I started one. A respondent replied that this thread had already been started, and I see it’s already been going for over a week! So I’m deferring to this one. We’re leaving in 2 days for France, and hope to catch at least 3 stages from the side of the road, including the Col du Tourmalet climb on Stage 14 (July 13), and the finish in Nice. The Tour started today, in Florence, Italy. Temperatures in the high 90’s Fahrenheit, and over 100 on the paved roads. I dread how hot it’ll be in Nice in 3 weeks.

The Peacock broadcast wasn’t working smoothly at home this morning, and I was having to catch some of the action on my iPhone, when I could see anything. Now watching the repeat (and didn’t have to be up at 4:30 this morning). A small screen isn’t ideal, but commentary from Phil and Bob, with Christian on the road and Brent and Tejay in the studio, is still an essential part of the viewing experience, at least in the U.S.

It may be easier to follow in the USA than in France, but I’ll see if TV coverage will be easy to get where we’re staying, when we aren’t standing by the road somewhere. Peacock won’t be accessible while in France. Maybe there will be a place (sports bar???) where locals will be viewing the French coverage (in French, natch), or arguing over the proceedings. Maybe it will all be live-only, and if you don’t see it as it happens, you’ve missed it, and will have to wait until the next day. Perhaps there will be a “Prime Time” broadcast, or some other option to see all/part of that day’s stage after it’s finished. I’ll t maybe be able to provide some feedback over the coming three weeks.

Tade P is now 24, so white jersey finally up for grabs again

Tadej Pogačar is actually 25, and the Young Rider classification includes 24-year-olds. It’s for riders younger than 25. Tade will be 26 on September 21st this year.

Covid 19 is still a factor, in addition to devastating crash injuries. American hero, Sepp Kuss (from Durango, Colorado, but now living in Andorra), who won last year’s Tour of Spain (the “Vuelta”), and and was certainly going to be a prominent member of this year’s Visma team in Le Tour, contracted Covid just a few days ago, so he’s not competing. Speedy recovery wishes to Sepp, but he won’t be there to support Jonas Vingegaard.

And Jonas… how can he even be back on a bike? I can’t see how he’ll be able to repeat his GC win this year, but bravo to him for making it this far. Hope it doesn’t result in long term complications.

Stage summary:

How do you say run rabbit run in French? :). Love seeing the break away stay away, especially juuuuust barely.

And Cav looking every year his age. His team did a good job nursing the old fella through. Hopefully he hangs in long enough to get a couple cracks at a bunch sprint.

So much fun that it's off and running.

Cyn thanks for correcting young rider age cutoff. Have a great trip. If you can give us updates from the roadside - would be great to hear first hand reports!

I'm so glad to see this thread here - my dad's been a cycling fan since his youth, and an avid cyclist himself, so I grew up watching the Tour with him. The route this year looks wild but I guess with the Olympics the usual Paris finish was logistically impossible.

I have to stand up for the polka dot jersey, for sheer aesthetic delight if nothing else.

Naomi, I totally agree that the polka dot jersey is a great look.

I don't like the way they changed jersey aesthetics a couple years ago though. When they used to be kindergarten primary color solid blocks it was really easy to pick those riders out of the pack. Now that they have muted the jersey's, it's difficult to differentiate them. Green in particular. I can be looking right at the green jersey and not realize it's the green jersey.

The first stage was so hot! It must have been humid to some extent too. Cavendish was vomiting off his bike with heat stroke. Slowed down enough to get rehydration and recover enough to get across the finish line. Matteo Jorgenson weighed almost 7 pounds less at the finish than at the start. One of the German cyclists said that he lost a full kilo even though he drank 16 bike bottles of rehydration liquid during the stage.

First day. Welcome to le tour!

Appreciate your posts, Hank. You are worth the price of admission! Everyone else, too, it's fun to read your thoughts.

The heat is the worst, even worse than climbing mountains, imo, especially when the riders are not used to it yet.

I had heatstroke following a marathon years ago, and I felt like I was going to die. It was awful. You get nausea and can't keep anything down, exacerbating the problem. I do not understand how Cav could puke his guts out and still finish the stage under the time limit. Yes, kudos to his team for saving his azz and pulling him through, but it's still astounding to me. Perhaps even more so is how someone in that condition could race another 100 plus miles tomorrow. Just wow. Yeah, I know I'm Average Joe Blow six-pack, but that level of suffering is beyond my comprehension.

I'll just add that The Move podcast--on Spotify, etc.--has a same day recap where Lance, George Hincapie, Johan, and others comment on the race. It's interesting and informative.

Cyn, I envy you. If you could please post your experiences.

Mardee, great as always to have you along for the ride, so to speak.

Feel bad for Sepp Kuss (and love that name!), but why can't he compete? COVID for young people is rarely a problem beyond a cold. Now, if he's feeling like dog poop, I get that, but if his symptoms are not enough to prevent him from riding, well, why can't he ride?

Just wow. Yeah, I know I'm Average Joe Blow six-pack, but that level of suffering is beyond my comprehension.

An immunologist friend did some studies of riders after three week stage races and found that their blood profile at the end of the race looks like they have leukaemia.

The son of a friend competed in the infamous 2013 Milan-San Remo race where they basically rode through a blizzard and it took him months to get the feeling back in his hands.

Top professional cyclists are tough!

I am watching today's stage on regular French tv - France 2, channel 2. Will be starting soon and they have just switched to coverage. (France Télévisions, the public broadcasting company, has the rights and broadcasts the Tour live daily, but they switch channels - so for example, this week some days you start watching it on France 2, then when the news comes on France 2, you switch to France 3 for the Tour and vice versa. I don't know how they decide which channel at which time on which day.)

I will have to see if I can have it on at work tomorrow and Tuesday when it will be running to Turin and redeparting from Pinerolo -- areas I know since Turin is my husband's hometown.

The official website also says you can follow the tour live via their official app, but I haven't tried that.

Eurosport replays the stages every evening, but that is a pay channel. The RMC app supposedly also broadcasts the Tour.

AussieNomad, wives of Tour riders have mentioned seeing the outlines of some of their internal organs at the end of the race. 1/3 or more of the riders have some type of cold or sinus infection by the end, as I would imagine they would have a greatly weakened immune system by that point. Bone density goes way down.

Kim: It's fun to have a window open with live tour updates, like on Cyclingnews.com, etc., and check on it as work allows.

On a side note, I was listening to George Hincapie, perhaps the Tour's best all-time lieutenant, discussing diet. He said he was absolutely sick of pasta and chicken every day, or not eating at all if his weight was up. After the season he would give himself two weeks to eat whatever caught his fancy, including Taco Bell, ice cream, milkshakes, pizza, Five Guys burgers and fries, and so forth. He said two weeks was enough as he would pack on several or more pounds. When asked about his favorite smell, he said "bacon," and then the video cut to his wife, who said, "I hope he would have said me!" lol

For those who have a VPN

Other sources to watch TDF for free include:
SBS On Demand (Australia): https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand
NSO (Holland) : https://nos.nl/livestream

If you’re travelling in the UK, it’s on ITV4, Freeview channel 26 every day in full, and then an overview at 7pm, same channel.

Peacock channel $5.99/month. That's another option.

Peacock is loaded with commercials the other free streaming options via a VPN are commercial free.
Sadly this year Peacock is not offering the commercial-free international feed for those paying for the premium tier.

Stage 2: Pog tested Ving; Ving licked his lips and smiled.

Looks like the odds makers got it right, figuring Pogachar and Vingegaarde's chance as close to equal?

Sacre bleu! Two consecutive French stage winners to start off the Tour de France - albeit in Italy. Maybe the race doesn’t now just belong to Slovenians/Danish/Belgians/etc. I know the successes of riders from other countries (including Spain, Norway, Columbia, and the U.S.A., among others, has been disappointing many French fans for a long time. Crowds along the side of the road still show support for the racing general, although it’s an international group of spectators, too.

Been following Le Tour for over 35 years and this year's edition should be great! And having a time trial as the finishing stage? That could be super exciting if the GC is still neck-and-neck.

Vingegaard and Pogačar are definitely the class of the bunch this year, as they have been the past 3 years. Pogi's team is deeper than Vingo's, for sure, and that will likely start to show on stage 4 when they cross into France and scale the south face (i.e. the more difficult one) of the Col du Galibier.

I think that Evenepoel and Roglič are the likely dark horses for GC, with Carapaz, Carlos Rodriguez, or Bernal sneaking into the mix. Heck, even Adam Yates could be up there like he was last year, though in 2023 he had the advantage of Pogi's implosion to move up the ranks.

I'd love to see Jorgenson do well, though as a lieutenant of Vingegaard he will lay low unless there's an implosion by the team leader. He also went down hard on his right side today and will feel the effects of that over the next two days, for sure. The common rule is that crash pain is worst two days out from hitting the tarmac - so on the Galibier? Ouch.

I think that Evenepoel has the white jersey nailed down, barring calamity. Green will probably be Pedersen or Ciccone, maybe Kristoff. Polka dot may end up going to the GC victor depending on how much Pogi and Vingo attack and counter each other.

My guess is that if Cavendish wins his record-breaking stage he withdraws from the Tour after the win. He's looked shaky in the heat and admits that his older self isn't as resilient as young, cocky Cav was back in the day.

Fun fact: the current polka dot holder, Abrahamsen, won l'Etape du Tour (the citizens' sportive that does a Tour stage) back in 2017, before he was a pro racer. So he showed his mountain mettle early on. I rode last year's Etape and it's brutal - gives new respect for these pros doing it 21 of 24 days during peak daytime heat (thanks to global TV pressures).

I'm headed to the Alps just after the Tour passes and will be watching on FR1/2/3 while there. Purposely avoiding actually watching the Tour in-person as I've been there, done that, and would rather ride my bicycle while there,

Agreed about Peacock: their presentation is a hot mess, they definitely dumb down the presentation for an assumedly naïve U.S. audience. The commercials are incessant and intrusive. And even though he's the voice of cycling for so many U.S. viewers, it's time for Phil Liggett to hang up the microphone. The past couple of seasons I watched the GCN+/Eurosport coverage using a VPN and it was much, much better: better hosts (give me Orla Chennoui any day over Paul Burmeister, as she's legitimately knowledgeable about the sport), better commentary (Rob Hatch, Carlton Kirby, Sean Kelly, Jens Voigt - all are great), better access to the riders. Sad that Warner Brothers-Discovery cut that off and shuttered GCN+ - big loss to fans. And with Peacock not offering the global, ad-free option over the past few years it's... not great. But it's something, I guess.

That said: VPN viewing with the aforementioned services (FR1/2/3, SBS, ITV) is an option. And for those U.S. fans with FloBikes subscriptions, you can watch the global feed (with Ant McCrossan and Nico Roche doing commentary) if you VPN to Canada.

A few Location and side comments:

Thursday was the big, ceremonial team presentation, overlooking Florence from the Piazza Michelangelo. It is a magnificent spot (when not filled with tour buses and tacky t-shirt souvenir tents, as when we were there in 2022), with a fine view. Team EF Education-Eastport, the “American” team in this year’s race, was presented first! Their Italian rider, Alberto Bettiol, is the current Italian Road Race champion. The Italian crowd in Florence went nuts when he was introduced, and he was interviewed on stage in front of everybody, before the next team rode out.

EF also has the current American champion, Sean Quinn, who’ll be wearing a Stars and Stripes (well, stars and red-and-white swirls) uniform, unless he’s in Yellow, Green, Polka-dot, or White. At 23 years old, he’s eligible for the white Best Young Rider jersey. EF consistently had a rider in front of almost every stage of this year’s Giro d’Italia tour, which gave the team and its sponsors lots of camera time, although as the leader’s jersey in the Giro is pink (as opposed to the TdF’s yellow), EF Education had to change their pink jerseys for a darker color during the Giro, to avoid complications. We’ll see if they get out front much for Le Tour, and how their GC team leader, Ecuadoran Richard Carapaz fares.

At one point in the Team Introduction ceremony, a highlight film from last year’s Tour was shown on the Big Screen. The audio was in French, but there were subtitles - in Italian!

During today’s Stage 2 broadcast, I saw footage for the first time of Vingegaard’s crash from three months ago. It’s still amazing that he can compete this soon, yet he looked formidable today, trading off with Pogacar in the last 9 miles to the finish.

It was also interesting seeing the climb - on repeated loops - to the Saint Luke (San Luca) church, alongside the lengthy portico I walked up on that same 2022 Italy trip. The road winds underneath the portico passageway a couple of times, and I remember seeing (and photographing) the “Pantani” names painted on the roadway, clearly visible from the openings along the portico. I’m guessing the lettering got a recent fresh touch-up of paint for today. The late Marco Pantani - The Pirate - remains an icon in Italian cycling. I imagined for a moment what riding up there would be like, as I made it on foot.

The portico itself is mostly a steep ramp, but there are steps every so often. Towards the top, it’s almost all stairs. Just outside the Santuario church, there was a stand, with attendants signing people up for tours. They also had a world nap, showing how many visitors had come from what countries. The U.S. showed something like 6,000 - far fewer than many other places. Rick Steves doesn’t include Bologna in his guidebooks, or maybe there would be more. As I recall, the list showed a surprisingly high number of visitors from Nepal.

Along the portico, under the protective roof and set into the passageway walls, there were occasional religious shrine displays. Some sated back more than 300 years I believe, and some had a more modern appearance. Sadly, most had been vandalized and/or painted with graffiti. The hillside perch at the top was a great place to view the beginning of a nice sunset, but scrambling back down before it was completely dark was rough. Good thing my phone had a flashlight feature!

I wonder whether any riders will get Tortellini for dinner tonight?

I agree with R.D. Riet that Remco Evenepoel might be a real contender (if a dark horse) for the GC. His time trial prowess could get him a GC win with the final stage, if he’s close enough after Stage 20.

I'm generally on team "it's a bicycle race, not and exercise contest," the crazy crowds of spectators being part of that. But today people had climbed the barriers and were inside the race course. Most sat on the ground against the barriers, which is bad enough. But one guy inside the barriers ran alongside breakaway leader Kevin Vauquelin for a long time, screaming madly and pumping his fists.

That's too much. Out on the roads fair play, but once the barriers are up, it's the equivalent of running onto a football pitch. Penalties should be similar.

Thanks, Cyn. Keep it coming.

Riders have often complained about the tedium of dinner, so I'm guessing some sort of pasta and baked chicken. Again. Maybe throw in some fish and turkey. I do understand that teams don't want to serve anything that could cause GI issues, so not too crazy on the fruits and vegetables.

Yeah, Peacock blows. I'm going to try Hulu since we already have it.

Regarding the food the athletes eat: it is strictly monitored these days. Your guess of pasta, a lean protein, etc. is pretty much spot-on. Riders do get some variety (e.g. those with dietary restrictions) but by-and-large it's a fairly dull affair. There are veggies, for sure, but fewer of the fibrous ones. Plenty of legumes mixed in for those whose system tolerate them.

They also drink a ton a micronutrient shakes and smoothies (some made with fresh fruit and vegetables, others with a powder). Emphasis is on carbs and protein - lather, rinse, repeat.

The shirtless guy running inside the barricaded stretch was stunning, and infuriating. How the clod got back over a barricade and into the packed crowd is hard to understand, as people were 3 or 4 deep, and shoulder-to-shoulder, with no gate or other opening for access. Then again, how he was able to climb over the barricade for his run of “glory” is hard to picture, too, with so many spectators who would’ve witnessed it. Maybe a police officer (I didn’t spot any) hauled him off, and he’s been forced to abandon the race. Cleaning up Cav’s vomit with his own toothbrush would’ve been too lenient a punishment for that jerk.

Saw one incident of a bystander holding aloft a smoking flare - yellow smoke, in the spirit of the Tour, but still polluting the air for passing racers. A personal peeve of mine, those should be outlawed.

I’m paying about $12/mo to watch commercial free on Peacock. Well worth it.

A big Noooo to Phil Liggett stepping down. The Tour wasn’t as fun for me after Lance was out, very sad with Paul Sherwen gone, and if. Bob and Phil quit, i won’t watch anymore.

Cyn, you should be a writer or commentator. I'd tune in to your show.

Susan, I too like Phil and Bob. Yes, Phil has lost a step, but he's still good enough. Bob has become more polished, but I miss his "Tour Day France" days.

I’m paying about $12/mo to watch commercial free on Peacock.

The replays have the commercials edited out, but when watching live all tiers have to suffer through commercial breaks. When I contacting them to complain, they said they are contractually obligated to show commercials on all tiers this year. On reedit and Facebook lots of fans are up in arms about the new policy.

Mike, the US coverage has changed so much, it was so much better for the 20 yrs before Covid. It’s gone so downhill, and why i’m out if Phil and/or Bob leaves. This year i’m really only watching hoping Cav wins his 35th Stage. “Tour day France” is so Bob, lol.

Michael, i’d be furious too, way too painful to watch with commercials. I can’t watch it live, only on replay, guess that’s a good thing.

@ Michael

I see you have mentioned the SBS live streaming. Is free. From start to finish. I believe the adverts I get are determined by the French broadcasting breaks to allow for their local advertising content.

Starts around 8/9 pm. Tonight 7pm for the longer stage to Turin. The lovely Dr Bridie O'Donnel providing excellent commentary.

Unfortunately dropping off to sleep around midnight for the first two stages. Slept through the last hour or so, which is the most exciting. Got to stop getting out the cheese platter and port at 10pm.

Regards Ron

It's worth noting the quality of U.S. Tour de France coverage was far better 24 years ago than today. My two cents.

I see you have mentioned the SBS live streaming. Is free. From start to finish. ... The lovely Dr Bridie O'Donnel providing excellent commentary.

We in Australia get excellent TdF coverage on SBS. Dr Bridie O'Donnell is a former world hour record holder and medical doctor so I now know much more about why Cav was vomiting during Stage 1 than I think I ever wanted to know. And she's ably supported by Simon Gerrans who used to ride for Orica GreenEdge (and other teams) and won several stages in the Tour and the Giro, and Liege-Baston-Liege and Milan-San Remo.

We usually also have Mark Renshaw providing commentary for sprint stages but he's working as a DS at Astana trying to keep Cav calm enough to win that elusive 35th stage. Will tonight's stage be Cav's chance?

Well, today's stage just finished -- literally 3 or 4 blocks (okay maybe 7 or 8) from my mother-in-law's apartment !! And the ride through the countryside took the riders through Carmagnola, where my husband's uncle lives and had his optician's shop. Too funny to see these places showing up as backdrop to the Tour de France !

Such a beautiful area Kim. The town of Barbaresco looks like a wine connoisseur's fever dream.

Today's 3rd stage winner, Eritean sprinter Binian Girmay, marks a couple of firsts, first stage win for his country, for first stage win for a black African. The tour grows ever more diverse :)

Will he avoid the Champagne bottle at the finish line ceremony? No other cyclist could best Binian when he won the 10th stage of the 2022 Giro d'Italia. But:

"preparing the celebratory spray of bubbly, the Eritrean leaned over the large bottle of of Prosecco and shot the cork into his left eye. He winced, squinted, and gamely went on with the spraying. But afterward, he had to go to the hospital, where examinations revealed a hemorrhage in his eye’s anterior chamber. He was forced to drop out of the multistage race the next day."

If I was him I would ask if I could open a bottle of Barolo instead!

I don't want to delete this thread - too much fun.

I reported the above post in its original phrasing. Let's let the moderator decide if it's an appropriate response to my previous recap.

No ill will towards above poster, just seems easier to not go down some sideshow political argument path here. I'd appreciate if everyone just left it alone and let the forum owners decide if it's cool or not. I'm happy enough to abide by whatever they decide.

In the meantime, let's just focus on the bike race.

Thanks!

Oh my goodness, that is so awful about his eye injury in the 2022 race ! Goodness.

Yes, Barbaresco and those surrounding villages and countryside are so beautiful. Hoping to capture the recap of that tonight.

Eurosport with a nice recap of day 3. Even though it was the longest stage, most riders must have been pretty happy that it wasn't happening at suffer-fest pace.

https://youtu.be/hiH3FpEtPjo?feature=shared

The bunch sprint was pretty exciting - some tires getting to within just inches of clipping the barrier

Yes, a fun final 5km after a snooze of a stage. The riders were averaging around 21 mph for most of the stage - a pace that fit recreational cyclists can do without a ton of trouble. They were at the longer end of the predicted finish time per the TdF Road Book that's given to the media and teams.

Once things lit up in Torino it was fun! Seeing so many Isreal-Premier Tech and Soudal-Quickstep riders go down within the 5 km "non-penalty zone" was a shame (poor Cavendish was caught behind) but that finish sprint was one for the ages! Girmay winning was awesome.

And what a cheeky move by Carapaz to get the maillot jaune. I doubt he'll still have it after tomorrow's stage, but who knows?

I didn't realize that the crashes were inside the neutralized zone! Seems so unnecessary. But they're still riding bikes fast in a tight bunch regardless.

I saw some odds for tomorrow's race. Tade Pogachar +225 to win Stage 4. Jonas V +1200!

I usually feel like the oddsmakers know better. But a Vingegaarde stage win paying out more than 5x a Pogachar win? That seems crazy to me. If I was in a place where sports betting was easy, I could in good conscience plunk 50 bucks down on JV.

I wonder why they are giving Pog such a good chance of the stage win compared to JV? Maybe they figure JV doesn't want the yellow? Or that JV won't win a downhill finish? Probably different odds if finish at the top of the mountain?

BigMike, thank you, although I’m sure that with a microphone in front of me, I’d wear out my welcome very quickly. With an available public Forum:

I’ve been a fan of Welsh rider Geraint Thomas for a long time, even before his book, The World According to G.” He was vying for the GC championship in this year’s Giro d’Italia (on TV on EuroSport via MAX this spring, as NBC had no involvement with Italy’s Grand Tour), and his daily audio blog is entertaining and informative (as is kancr and George’s *The Move. This is his 13th (and likely final) Tour (compared with Cav’s 15th), and I believe he finished every one so far. He lost over 6 minutes yesterday, which will be tough to make up. He’s another rider who takes two weeks off after a major race to drink beer and eat Welsh Cakes, without regard for weight gain. Some of his broadcasts are done during a post-race massage. I hope he has a good Tour.

BTW, how’s the riding in the Mountain State? Are there a lot of cyclists (more now than say, 20 years ago?), are there actually shoulders on the roads, and do motorists accommodate bicycles working their way uphill? I hope there’s enough room for trucks/cars AND bikes.

So Stage 3: Sprints are either Glory or devistation, but all Guts for every rider. Skill is required, but some luck doesn’t hurt.

Eritrean Biniam Girmay is only the third African rider to have won a TDF stage in 111 Tours, after Robert Hunter and Daryl Impey, both from South Africa.

Cav has lost one support rider on the Astana team, as Michele Gazzoli crashed out only about 60 miles into Stage 1. This was the first Tour for that 25 year old.

As with last year, the Uno-X team is all Scandinavians, with 7 Norwegians and 1 Dane. Jonas Abrahamsen, wearing the current Polka-Dot jersey, is the first Norwegian EVER to do so. Wonder whether there’s lutefisk, leverpostei, and/or brown cheese on the dinner table in the team bus?

Thomas isn't at this year's Tour as a GC guy - that's the job of Bernal, Rodriguez, and to a lesser extent, Pidcock. G's just there to be a helper to the big guys - thus why he didn't go for the push yesterday. He says that stage hunting is certainly a possibility, but also says that he's still feeling the effects of his Giro effort.

I think that Remco has a chance to grab yellow tomorrow. Pogi is a great descender - more so than Vingo - but Remco is a lot more cavalier with his descending. He might not be a Pidcock or Van Aert in terms of complete reckless abandon doing down a hill, but he's good, he's smooth, and he knows how to preserve speed. His biggest knock is losing a teammate in the big crash before the finish today - that's not ideal on a squad that isn't as deep as UAE (which is there with essentially three GC contenders), Visma, or Ineos.

Carapaz will probably not hold onto yellow for long. EF's team isn't super deep, with Powless being his closest match on the long climbs (tho still recovering from injury so who knows).

And then there's Roglič. He showed decent form at the Dauphiné, but not truly flawless form, and he's been slow when it was needed thus far. I know his teammates are confident that he'll be fine when things get up there in elevation (and the temperature lowers) but... he just seems to be riding into form rather than in form.

Bilbao, Martin, or Bardet could still do something to take the lead, as well. Bardet, in particular, is one of the top descenders of all time. Simon Yates could go on a flyer as he's leaving Jayco-AluLa at the end of the season, this being his last legit go as a team's main GC guy.

Let's just hope that NBC/Peacock is reading the not-so-positive feedback about their coverage: the never-ending commercials, the fluff pieces that take over the entire screen while action happens, the flubs from Liggett (where Bobke has to correct him - there were three in the last 10 km today, alone), and the lack of availability of the global, ad-free feed (it was there until last year, now it's MIA). Cycling fans are decidedly nonplussed with NBC's saccharine product and are letting them know (and yes, I'm one of the critics).

They're also not thrilled that Peacock is carrying the video of Lane Armstrong's "The Move" podcast as part of their presentation. Lace is still persona non grata among many fans, so this decision is a bit bewildering.

At any rate, I can watch with the TV muted if need be, or VPN to Canada, Australia, or France to hear better commentary. I miss GCN+ a ton and am thrilled that they still sorta exist on MAX (their Giro coverage was top notch) but really bummed that NBC Universal's contract with ASO is firm for the next while. Seriously: all NBC needs to do is copy what Eurosport does: less fluff, presenters that hand off during the day to prevent fatigue, etc. It's a known good formula.

Anywho, enough of that. It's still a great bike race and this year's edition is proving very entertaining, indeed.

As with last year, the Uno-X team is all Scandinavians, with 7
Norwegians and 1 Dane. Jonas Abrahamsen, wearing the current Polka-Dot
jersey, is the first Norwegian EVER to do so. Wonder whether there’s
lutefisk, leverpostei, and/or brown cheese on the dinner table in the
team bus?

Interesting that there's never been a Norwegian in the Polka Dot jersey until right now. They have plenty of hills, and plenty of cyclists.

Re Lance and The Move podcast, I've always been a fan of the guy. It's interesting to me how much of his Texas brash thing is real and how much put on. For instance he act like he can't at all pronounce French and Italian words and has no interest in doing so. But if you watch footage from his TDF's and Giro's, he sometimes speaks to the media in French or Italian.

And they certainly know their stuff when it comes to bike racing. Not just prognostication on the mechanics of the competition, but plenty of human interest and inside baseball. I'm sure it appeals to me because as a cyclist I'm a decidedly removed road racing, but it's fun.

As far as the travel angle goes, after today's stage Piedmont and surroundings moved higher on my must go list. Such striking scenery, great wines, and I'm sure food to match. Not sure why I haven't already been!

BTW, how’s the riding in the Mountain State? Are there a lot of cyclists (more now than say, 20 years ago?), are there actually shoulders on the roads, and do motorists accommodate bicycles working their way uphill? I hope there’s enough room for trucks/cars AND bikes.

Cyn, it's nearly impossible to ride anywhere without hills, often steep and long hills, so an "easy day" is always going to have some hard parts simply staying upright on the bike. Many drivers are not very understanding or empathic toward cyclists. At all. West Virginia is, sadly, the fattest, oldest, and most drugged in the country, or near the top of the list with Mississippi. The roads are often narrow and windy, and that royally pizzes off drivers trying to pass. They are in a hurry for a case of Budweiser, a carton of cigarettes, and beef jerky. Other than blaring horns, there is the usual: "Get the eff out of the road, fa----!" "You sure look cute in those tights, sweetheart." And, "Move over, Lance!" There are some far more colorful comments, but I'll leave it at that. A rider can NOT miss lower traffic times like weekend and holiday early mornings.

Cyn, very much enjoy reading your commentary. I think you undersell your abilities.

I feel bad for the sprinters today, Stage 4. Ugh.

Should be some fireworks for the GC. Quick glance at the weather looks absolutely perfect.

Hank, sorry about that. My sense of "humor" gets in the way, although I do have a good point, imo.

No worries Mike, all good. Thanks for checking in.

Tade!

I doubted the odds makers, but once again they seemed to know what's up.

Vingegaarde didn't crack afaik? He just doesn't have the sort of shorter distance power climbing that Pogachar displayed today.

The descent to the finish was scary to watch. Everything on the line, 10 miles of 55mph endless hairpins, snowpack melting water across the road in the worst spots. I could barely watch. Phil and Bob didn't mention it probably not wanting to jinx, but Jonas, just a couple months out of the ICU from crashing on a similar decent, was only a handful of seconds slower down than Pogi. The guts these kids have ....

Another beautiful scenery day - I've not been to the part of the Alps they rode today, but it looks like it would be a phenomenal skiing and hiking. Surrounded by national parks, which is always a good indicator of a beautiful area.

I suspect if I crashed because of a clueless spectator in the neutral zone, or anywhere, or a careless rider, I would lose my cookies.

It is true that anyone who seriously rides a bike WILL crash eventually, but seeing it on TV just doesn't do justice to the pain and misery. Yes, these "hard men" may finish the day and perhaps perform quite well, but that night when the excitement subsides, then you have to deal with the misery of road rash and aching bones that can prevent sleep. The next day is when the soreness and stiffness really become noticeable, like when you sprain and ankle, you got to hop on the saddle and do it all again.

Now, I realize these teams have the best medical care and trainers in the world, so that would likely make a huge difference. Massage, cold therapy, and a sleeping pill.

Anyway, Mary and I can't wait to watch the Tour each evening. So enjoyable along with the spectacular scenery and a few history lessons, which are my favorite. I do miss the days when Bob Roll would say, Tour DAY France lol. He's become too sophisticated I guess. As for Phil Liggett, I say keep on trucking as long as he can. He's a gem although he's slowed a few steps.

Totally agree with you on Phil. It doesn't bother me that he gaffs and misinterprets things now. Bob just steers him and he's so nice to listen to that it's worth it. Very much like the last couple of years with Chick Hearn.

I think you're on the button with the timing of crash pain too. When I broke my rib last summer crashing in Flanders, the next day I was quite a bit improved. The day after that though i could only take a half breath, which led to lung fluid, then coughing. Which sucked. I didn't take a day off touring - was going to hurt on or off the bike, but but second day after was for sure a lot worse than the first!

Hank, I believe Jonas can not crash again. He just can't. After the devastating crash and hospitalization in April, another one might very well break him for awhile, mentally and physically. 12 days in the hospital. Let that sink in a moment.

What may do him in is not taking as many risks on the downhill, like today on the Galibier. If Tade and the other GC contenders want to bomb down the hill with reckless abandon, then good for them. It's part of the race. But Jonas has be be relatively pleased down 50 seconds after four days, followed by several relatively uneventful days forthcoming.

And yes, it's heartwarming how Bob works with Phil and keeps him relatively on track.

CAAAAAAAAAAVVV !!

CAAAAAAAAAAVVV !!

Was just coming here to post exactly that!

OMG!! I'm so happy for him and his family. Just wow.

I'd recommend the Netflix special on his trials over the past decade. Pretty rough going for him, including clinical depression.

What an incredible finish! I couldn’t believe how he found his way through one tiny space after another to get his win. Just, WOW!

Nice to see history again today! Cav certainly deserves it. Absolutely no gimmes in the TdF - Cav beat the whole assembly. Seems like a nice enough guy too :)

I'm looking forward Stage 6, Macon to Dijon. I rode about the same route recently over two day. The Burgundy wine valley is a pretty place with some good cycling. Nice and flat too. Jasper Philipsen the favorite I'm sure!

Cav's peers say he is what you see in the documentary and day-to-day. He is complicated, but authentic. What you see is what you get. His wife is a saint.

A side note on depression: I've seen many people go from a wreck to normal with a pill. The about face is incredible. Now, counseling and other treatment may be appropriate, too, along with meditation. Everyone is different.

George Hincapie thinks Cav will get to 37 wins, if Jasper the Disaster doesn't get in the way. And yes, I love Jasper. He's a scamp.

So incredibly happy for Cav. A long, sometimes dark road to get here and a hard won victory that he absolutely deserves. Wow is right. Well done.

Very very happy for Cavendish. Having watched the Netflix show about him last year I really appreciate his determination and the support of his family and friends. It was nice to see the other riders and former teammates reach out to congratulate him.

Stage 6 notches a win for the Netherlands' fastest man Dylan Groenewegen. It was a good looking bunch sprint finish, not a lot of elbows or pinching off, everyone got a chance, no one threatened life and limb. Groenwegen is a beast of a sprinter, much power. He carries the albatross of having been given a 9-month ban for pushing Fabio Jakobsen into the barriers and into a long hospital stay. It was an ugly incident, but the past is the past and all of this stuff in sport happens in a flash.

Jasper no longer The Disaster just nosed out for second. Eritrean Biniam Girmay, double-nosed for third, makes his current Green Jersey a bit more sticky. Dude looks good in green. He's a good all-around cyclist too, so has been effective on the intermediate sprint points. To mildly misquote Woody Allen, some significant part of sprinting success is showing up. Mads P dropped back a bit with his ugly crash yesterday, so unless Jasper goes on a tear Girmay is edging closer to even more history :)

Tomorrow's Stage 7 should be very interesting, an individual time trial from
Nuits-Saint-Georges to Gevrey-Chambertin, both absolutely superb Burgundian wine towns, both in world-class wine and charm-your-face-off villages. Sample the wines If you can, and visit The villages if you can! Should be some pretty footage on tomorrow's telecast.

But oh yes the race! Tade has a 45-second lead over insane time trialer Remco E, and maybe even better TT'er Jonas V. Tade himself, of course is no slouch on an aero bike. The course is not dead flat, nothing steep but there is 1,000 ft of climbing in the 15 miles. I'm not sure at this point who the course favors, need to do a little more reading and research to get ready. It's tough training but I'm up for it ;)

I think tomorrow will live up to the time trial's moniker "the race of truth." Things will be revealed, we will know a lot more about who is who in the GC this year at the end of tomorrow's stage. Looking forward to it!

Today's sprint was brilliant! And how clutch were Girmay's mid-stage sprint points? I am team Girmay all the way, and I was also super happy for Cavendish yesterday.

Oh, and do any of y'all get a feed where they talk about the history or architecture or whatnot of the places you see? I hadn't known about the children of Izieu until the race came through there and they showed it. The German feed even played a bit of a 1990s German song (by Reinhard Mey for those who know the name) about it as they showed the location and told the story.

Spoke too soon above about clean finish. Jasper Philipsen relegated for pinching Wout Van Aert towed the barriers. Not super egregious, but Philipsen does have a tendency to drift out of his line towards the barriers if he is a coule of widths from them. Probably a good call - eventually that practice will end badly.

Also, looking forward to an update from Cyn! Nice to hear her on site perspectives :)

do any of y'all get a feed where they talk about the history or architecture or whatnot of the places you see?

Yes, they do this on the French public broadcast

Unfortunately, this year Peacock has taken away the option for the world feed which means we aren’t getting the good scenery and descriptions.

And I’m considering a drinking game. Every time they mention Mark Cavendish, you drink. By the end of the first hour of broadcasting you’ll be passed out.

Oh, and do any of y'all get a feed where they talk about the history or architecture or whatnot of the places you see?

In Australia, the SBS commentators clearly have scripted bits about landmarks (chateaux, churches etc). I understand that there is a contractual obligation in the broadcast rights to include this "tourism" commentary.

Paul Sherwen on NBC/Peacock, Phil’s partner until Paul died, used to identify/name places and tell us about them throughout the race, but it’s not done anymore. Someone above said Bob Roll does it but i haven’t heard it.

Also people above have mentioned Phil’s gaffs and Bob’s had to correct him… but i’ve heard Phil correct Bob quite a bit. Even Christian Vandevelde, who i like, still has trouble getting his words out. They all make gaffs which i find human and endearing.

Susan, I agree. I think Phil has found his footing a bit now and is doing well. I miss Paul going into more detail about the castle ruins and other historic features along the course, and for me it has degraded the experience of watching the Tour.

Carol, yes, I don't think we would make it very far if we drank every time they mentioned Cav.

Unfortunately, it looks like Jasper has been a little of a disaster in the sprints, and even his fellow riders are calling him out.

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/tour-de-france/wout-van-aert-calls-out-jasper-philipsen-after-relegation-in-bunch-sprint-thats-a-bad-habit-of-his/

And today's riders have a much more varied and tasty diet than in past years.

https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/howto/guide/what-do-tour-de-france-cyclists-eat

BigMike, 100% agree with all you said. Good food link, thanks!

Interesting day, Stage 7 was. Showed about what might have been expected of the GC elites: Jonas V hanging in there; Pogi a bit better; at the moment Remco Evenpoel the best time trial racer on the planet.

Of interest: about a mile from the finish, Remco was quickly grinding seconds off of Pogachar's overall 45 second lead. He said a fan drinking at the barriers dropped a glass (how Euro) onto the course and his rear tire started hissing a leak. Tubeless sealant did its job, but not before rear tire losing sime pressure.

As a result Remco nearly whacked the barriers in a turn as his tire flexed too far sideways. Down the stretch he had to sit up out of the TT aero tuck several times to maintain control.

Evenpoel ended up 12 seconds faster than yellow jersey Pogi over the 15 miles and 1000 vertical feet. He still sits in second place in the GC, only 33 seconds back. But he clearly lost significant time to the wayward glass. When he was announced winner of today's stage, Remco looked decidedly less stoked than normal.

But he's right there! And Jonas Vingegaarde is just 75 seconds back, and feeling better day by day as he rides into shape. In combat sports they say you'd better knock out the champ when you have the chance. Tade has issued some stiff jabs and a hard cross, but Jonas is still squarely on his feet.

So we shall see - still plenty of racing left to go!

Tomorrow's Stage 8 looks quite interesting. Many many punchy climbs, and it's been a few days of togetherness, so I think many rabbits will try to run. If breakaways fail, then from the bunch advantage goes to the best uphill finish sprinters. Vanderpoel and Green jersey Girmay maybe the most likely two?

Stages 8 and 9 visit some of the small, sketchy roads the women raced in their 2023 TdF. They regularly (and spectacularly) crashed on some of these segments. Commentariat protested - "they'd never make the men race these roads!"

Tour organizer apparently said "oh yeah? Hold our mussettes!" And promptly assigned the men of 2024 some of the same stretches.

And now the men's tour hits these stages relatively rested after a flat spin to a bunch sprint, then (most of them) half-a$$ing through the time trial to save energy. Stage 8 should be a bounce back to high voltage.

Hopefully the racing stays fully upright, but it smells a bit like peloton dominoes and roadside pick-up sticks. Cleaner is always better so fingers crossed!

Lastly, starting town Semur-en-Auxois is a ridiculous Burgundian fairy tale gem. I've only slid through on a bicycle for a quick look around. But if you were looking for a place take a week and chill, no Netflix, you could book it blind and you would kiss the cobblestones when you laid your eyes upon the place. There are just too many places to go in the world, but a week's gite in Semur-en-Auxois, pair of bicycles leaning in the garden, will happen once my wife and I get the kid packed off to college :).

Thank you, Hank.

Sure Mike! There's been so much interest and drama and entertainment in the tour already, hard to believe it's only 1/3 done! It feels a little like football season, got to remember to keep enjoying it because before you know what it's going to be gone :)

Binian Girmay is a DOG. Smashed the uphill sprint finish of Stage 8. 24 years old - kid has a killer combination of power, endurance and savvy. So neat to see Eritrean cycling break through on the world stage. First two stage winner of this tour and quickly sewing up the Green Jersey competition.

Meanwhile on the Polka-dot front, Jonas Abrahamsen infused the sometimes JV jersey some real stuffing. He broke away early, and was soon solo, on the rolling terrain. Gave the peloton some real hell for almost 100 miles. Eventually 5 or 6 teams needed to work hard together to reel him in close to the finish. He's been putting together a cracker of a tour thus far and deserves the recognition.

In the GC battle, contender were content to detente for a day, times staying about static Yellow jersey Tadej Pogacar, then Remco Evenepoel +00:33, Jonas V +01:15, and Primoz Roglic +1:36. Probably they were looking forward to Stage 9, which will have more than a dozen gravel road sections. We dodged the crashes the women had on some of today's pavement; know if they can adjust avoid the gravel monster things will be going pretty well. It's tough though. Gravel racing is a big thing all around the world, but it never really experiences the speed and size of a Tour de France level peloton. I think tomorrow the GC teams are going to be playing defense, elbows out, everybody else stay the hell away from Tadej, Remco, Jonas, etc.

As for stage contenders, I would love see a crazy battle between Matthew Vanderpol and Wout Van Aert. They both kick a$$ in rough mixed terrain one day classics, a model that Stage 9 appears to closely mimic.

Jasper Philipsen has a puncher's chance at Stage 9 as well - outside of being a great sprinter he is also a very good one-day classic rider. Though I have been enjoying Binian's taking stage wins and the Green Jersey across new frontiers, I'd also like to see Philipsen get a turn at glory this year too. Tomorrow is not a bad shot for him.

But of course it could go to anyone! So many great athletes, and as they say every dog has its day. Feels like it's about time that a big surprise is due!

And finally today, such a drag that Mads Peterson had to drop out due to injuries sustained sprinting (well actually crashing) at the finish 2 days ago. He got absolutely G N A R L Y road rash, and badly bruised too. As Big Mike has noted, two days later is a lot harder than one day later. In Mads case this was certainly true - he physically could not start this morning. Which is too bad because he's another one who can sprint really well uphill. Stage 8 was his type of course.

Okay! Fingers crossed that putting 170+ of the world's greatest, most rabidly competitive road racing cyclists onto slimy recently rained on dirt roads goes smoothly tomorrow. The poor mechanics, must be a minor nightmare getting all those team bikes ready for wet dirt conditions ;)

I do agree Mike! It's a bike race, not an exercise contest.

On the equipment front, I think for sure they run different tires and wheels. I like 32mm minimum for dirt, and feel like those roll quite fast, but of course the TdF peloton is after incremental gains.

I would want my hands a little higher for dirt too. But of course same deal, aero is king.

I'd love a run down on equipment before the race start. Got to look around for that kind of coverage.

Yes, it’s a race, but i think making them race on gravel is unreasonable and dangerous, for no good reason. It’s a race of endurance and skill and should be on asphalt, which their road bikes are intended for. Are they allowed to change to a mountain bike for the gravel part? No. So a road bike is forced to race on gravel. The TdF is already full of danger (rain, fans in their face, road furniture, tacks…) the organizers can’t fully control, they don’t need to add more.

Susan, I take your point. It's worthwhile discussion.

Hank, from personal experience I've found riding on gravel gets a lot of grit into the tiny spaces of the chain and elsewhere. I have friends who like riding on gravel, at least uphill, but it's not for me.

Many riders are definitely dubious of the gravel. Tadej argues it introduces too much element of luck. More chance of unavoidable crashes and Tour losing mechanicals.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/you-can-lose-the-tour-on-tour-de-frances-gravel-stage-says-tadej-pogacar/

He certainly has some good points

Interesting drama related to air conditioning.

Organisers of the Paris Olympics want it to be the greenest ever Games, but athletes are prioritising their health. Officials aim to keep the rooms at between 73 to 79 degrees Fahrenheit, and will also provide fans. (My comment... way to warm for sleeping at night for many athletes. If I was an Olympic athlete that spent years swimming or cycling 6 hours per day, no way I'm taking a risk of a muggy night interfering with my sleep. No way.)

It was billed as the “greenest [Games] in Olympic history” - but the sustainability dreams of Paris 2024 are melting away as organisers order 2,500 air-conditioning units.

But Team USA will be ready regardless, and good for them: A growing number are planning to provide their athletes with portable units instead.

Sarah Hirshland, CEO of the U.S. Olympic & Paralympic Committee (USOPC), confirmed at a Friday briefing that members of Team USA will have air conditioning in their rooms.

“In our conversations with athletes, this was a very high priority and something that the athletes felt was a critical component in their performance capability, and the predictability and consistency of what they're accustomed to,” she said

https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/07/04/green-dreams-of-the-paris-olympics-in-meltdown-as-organisers-u-turn-on-air-conditioning

Hey all, I'm locking this thread. The discussion has turned into tangential arguments off the topic of travel and is proving too problematic to moderate.