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To Cruise or Not to Cruise?

I'm having a pretty hard time choosing. I feel like I'd be a fool to cruise - I'd just have so much less time in my destinations. But I've never taken a cruise before & just really want to. I don't need luxury or pampering, but want a bit more support than just arranging a solo, independent tour all on my lonesome.

I am very focused on Scandinavia/The Baltic Sea area (as in, I don't want to go anywhere else). I've done research on Nordic Visitor (tours) & Viking River & Ocean Cruises & really like what I see. Nordic Visitor seems willing to add days to places I'd like to spend more time in & eliminate places I don't want to see. The hotels they use are placed conveniently close to public transportation & touristy areas. And I like that Viking has a no kids policy, no assigned seats or formal nights, no nickel & diming or cheesy amusement park features. I'm aiming for 2023 - I have some health issues I want to work on (nothing horrid, but would just make travel somewhat uncomfortable). And I want Covid well & truly gone. So I have lots of time to gather information & plan things out.

I want to make this count. I feel like this could be my last trip abroad, unless I win the lottery or find the Fountain of Youth. Any opinions or advice would be appreciated.

EDIT) It is now more than a week since I posted this & I have decided I won't be taking a cruise. There are many reasons, but the main ones are it is too expensive & I will have too little time anywhere. I will probably will go with Nordic Visitor's 20-day, customized, solo tour (pieces of their Norway Express & Scandinavian Capitals with a Baltic Cruise tours cobbled together).
Thank you for all your helpful & interesting replies.

Posted by
4505 posts

If you want to try, I'd do it. There are upsides and downsides and so it really depends on what you feel is best for you.

Here's a couple of posts I've done in the past. Maybe you'll find them useful.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/how-cruising-helped-us

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/a-trip-report-from-the-perspective-of-a-european-newbie

I'm looking forward to reading the opinions you get, it's such a controversial topic.

Posted by
27908 posts

I agree with you about time in port. Unless the port is a small town, I don't want to be there for just a few hours. You might take a look at Hurtigruten. It does some expedition sailings and it markets cruises up Norway's western coast. However, it also sells point-to-point tickets on those coastal ships (which are used for transportation by locals), so you could hop from Bergen to some place farther north and spend a night or two there before moving on. That's what I intend to do when I feel comfortable taking the trip I was hoping to make last year. At the moment Hurtigruten isn't running the ships every day, which is its usual practice, so there is apparently some concern leading to passenger hesitancy.

Are you aware that there's a way to visit St. Petersburg for 3 days and 2 nights without going through the major (and costly) hassle of getting a Russian visa? The St. Peter Line offers this option from Stockholm, Helsinki or Tallinn.

There are (in normal times) regularly scheduled international ferries linking many of the nordic and Baltic countries that would free you up to set your own length of visit in the key cities. You could then check on the availability of multi-day packages within individual countries if yo wanted to.

It's true, though, that multiple people has said (I assume accurately) that Scandinavia is expensive enough on the ground that cruising is the cheapest way to see it. It's just that for me, a string of too-short stops in places like Oslo, Bergen, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Helsinki, Tallinn and St. Petersburg would be worse than nothing. I'm easily frustrated by insufficient time to see what I want to see.

Posted by
136 posts

Alan's post on cruising (and all the responses) give you a lot of things to think about. Here's a couple more. The "mainstream" cruise lines tend to have fewer port stops and more sea days. The more upscale lines such as Oceania, Azamara and Viking are usually more port intensive. That means a new port every morning. Their smaller ships are sometimes able to dock closer to town that the mega ships. One of the posters figured out cost per day comparisons. Think about cost per port comparisons, too.

We have not land toured in the Baltic. My research found there was a lot of wasted time on ferries or short air hops. Practically speaking a move to another city will take the majority of a day what with repacking, checking out, checking in at the airport or ferry terminal, allowing time for security and then getting luggage and transportation to a new hotel and getting settled. On a cruise you have a "floating hotel" that delivers you to a new city every morning. Note that in the Baltic most cruise ports are right in the city so simply walking off the ship and starting your own tour is pretty easy. For the Baltic a cruise makes considerable sense. This is especially true if you are older of have some physical limitations.

As mentioned on Alan's thread CruiseCritic is an excellent resource but requires some time and effort to do searches and to simply scroll through all the material there. If/when you pick a cruise the roll calls can help you find local guides and tours organized by experienced travelers.

Keep researching and dreaming!

Posted by
301 posts

I was firmly on Team" Cruising? For Real? Why?" until a couple a few years ago when the stars aligned and I did an 18 day Holland America trip from Rotterdam to Boston. Honestly, I LOVED it, and I found myself enjoying the sea days much more than I expected. It's obviously a very different style of travel than my preferred slow (or as slow as I can stuff into work holidays), soak in the cities and sites, approach, and it's not still not my preferred mode of travel. But it has its own charms--especially if you're traveling with fun companions or (as I was lucky to, 2 out of 3 times, fall in with a really fun group).

My budget, and especially traveling solo, don't allow (yet--I need to get a better job ;)) for a higher-end line like Viking, but if yours does, and you are feeling the pull, I don't see what you'd have to lose. You could also combine a Viking cruise with a land component on either side, if you feel you'll really crave the 24/7 traveling experience. I'm 41, so even if I could afford it, I seem to be a little below the normal Viking age demographic, but their shore excisions and on-ship activities seem to line up well with my history, art, culture, food, geekiness, so I'd very jealous and eager to hear about your experience.

My bottom line on cruising is that it is the experience is what you make of it. If you're trying to fit it into a preconceived vision, or trying to make it a "land trip on a boat," you're going to be disappointed. As other posters have said, shore days are shorter, sometimes there is annoying transit time to the shore stops you want to visit, etc. I found myself unexpectedly enjoying sea days, but that's not for everyone. Also, you're likely to be surrounded by well-off English speaking North Americans, which doesn't make it the most diverse group. But that doesn't mean you won't find things to value.

Edited to add: If you're not sure about Viking, but like the "no kids" aspect, you might aim for a time of year when kids are going to be in school.

Caroline

Posted by
6918 posts

To cruise or not to cruise in the end is a question on what travel style you prefer. I would never consider a cruise as I can't think of a worse way to travel than being tied to a ship's schedule and only make short stops in coastal towns and not being able to see places more inland. And apart from small towns, not really being able to see the places you dock. And in small towns not being able to see them because it is filled with other cruise passengers. But others seem to like it and in the end it is a matter of opinion.

An advantage of the Baltic sea though is that as mentioned there are many regular ferries across the sea that offer restaurants, shops and entertainment and also sell short cruises. The busiest route, and the biggest ferries, is Stockholm-Helsinki. But Helsinki-Tallin and Stockholm-Tallinn are also busy routes with large ships. Helsinki-Tallin takes 2 hours, the other mentioned are over night. The St Peter Line also deserved a special mention, as it is a way to visit St Petersburg without a visa.

It's true, though, that multiple people has said (I assume accurately)
that Scandinavia is expensive enough on the ground that cruising is
the cheapest way to see it.

There are ways to keep the cost down, even in Scandinavia.

We have not land toured in the Baltic. My research found there was a
lot of wasted time on ferries or short air hops.

Not sure what area you define as the Baltic, but in the Baltic states land transport can be a bit slow. In Scandinavia and Finland however it is a lot faster as those countries have pretty good rail networks.

Note that in the Baltic most cruise ports are right in the city so
simply walking off the ship and starting your own tour is pretty easy.

Many are, especially if you avoid the largest ships. But the biggest ships might dock somewhere else. In Stockholm e.g. the largest cruise ships usually dock in Nynäshamn, about an hour south of Stockholm.

Posted by
6713 posts

I took a look at the Nordic Visitor website based on your reference to it -- a company I hadn't heard of. They seem to offer a combination of hotels and transportation between cities, some of which is by ferry, rather than "cruises" as most of us understand the term. They seem to leave sightseeing in each city up to you, offering certain tours and experiences as added-cost options but also letting you spend your days as you choose. And they seem to allow at least a couple of full days in most of the cities. That may be a good arrangement for you, with lodging and transportation taken care of but not spending days at sea or getting taken around the cities. Kind of like the Rick Steves "My Way" tours. If Nordic Visitor is flexible about adding and subtracting time in ports based on your interests, it might be just what you're looking for.

We enjoyed a "traditional" Baltic cruise a few years ago, but found a single day much too short for places like Stockholm and Copenhagen. We had two days in St. Petersburg, but sleeping on the ship meant spending time each day going between the outlying port and the city itself.

Posted by
27908 posts

The nice thing about the St. Peter Line no-visa deal to St. Petersburg is that you spend two nights on land, in the city. (I have no experience with this or any other offering from St. Peter Line.)

Posted by
4656 posts

It sounds like you have arrived at a good option with Nordic Visitor. Acraven's DIY approach with a company doing the logistics for you. Certainly not traditional 'cruising' at all....so beware when discussing with folks on either extreme of the cruising spectrum 😊 Perhaps more like 'Scandinavia by train, boat and automobile'?
Since they use the Hurtigruten ferry system anyway, maybe look at what they offer, though, if I recall, buying it as a cruise it uses the ferry schedule, so not as much time in ports as you may like. They do, however, offer no single supplements or guaranteed Northern Lights tours at times.

Posted by
95 posts

Read Rick's Scandinavia Cruise Ports guide, which includes a few chapters on cruising in general, then chapters on each port (port/city chapters also applicable if you're doing a a land tour instead.)

I've done RS tours and Viking river cruises. I've researched NV Iceland tours, and VOC Viking Homelands is on my bucket list!
Reading your post, are you looking at NV's independent Scandinavia tour? I'm going to use that for this compare/contrast:

NV: local hotels and food, time for in-depth sightseeing, extra sightseeing and meal costs, pack and move every few days, transport by plane/train and overnight cruise (NV guided tour itineraries give you idea of travel time). I love walking the neighborhood after breakfast, before there are crowds.

VOC: unpack once, all meals and one highlights bus or walking tour per port included (time for more in-depth independent exploring?), self-serve laundry on board, can move around and onboard activities while underway. Here are a few travel blogs:

https://www.smartertravel.com/viking-ocean-cruise-homelands-review/ pros/cons (despite the young age of this blogger, most cruisers on Viking are retiree age)

https://notaboutthemiles.com/viking-homelands-cruise-northern-europe-ocean-cruise-itinerary/ bit more about excursions
https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2418045-viking-homelands-cruise-review/ some practical tips

If you want more in-depth time and be more on your own schedule, and have the physical stamina for multiple moves, then I would lean towards NV. (My travel mates for VOC like their comforts and are fine with just a taste of each port.)

Would love to hear about your experience, whichever you decide!

Forgot to say: Viking is NOT solo traveler friendly, if that applies to you.

Posted by
2 posts

I'm not a big cruiser myself, but I think you'd have a great time no matter what. Especially if it's a different kind of trip then what you usually do...
Viking sounds like a good choice, I've never done one myself, but I know a few people who have and they've had nothing but good things to say!

Posted by
8164 posts

We have traveled extensively, including Scandanavia, Russia, Germany and more.

Nordic Visitor appears to be a great tour company with excellent reviews, we have a week long tour of Iceland booked with Nordic Visitor in early August.

Cruising is a great way to visit the Baltic ports, especially to visit St. Petersburg, Russia (don't need an expensive and tiresome visa for that). I recommend a Baltic cruise as well as a Norway cruise up to the North Cape. We did a great one with Royal Caribbean in 2019. As far as scenic, it is about as great as it gets, par with an Alaska cruise up close to glaciers. Here is my detailed review:
https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=659526&et_cid=3214772&et_rid=17221689&et_referrer=Boards

Viking has ocean cruises, but compared to mainstream cruise lines like Celebrity, Royal Caribbean, NCL, Princess, HAL, they are very expensive. Best to compare and weigh itinerary and prices before you pick one.

Royal Caribbean does have huge mega ship that typically cruise the Caribbean, we don't do those cruises, but they also have midsized ships that don't have the amusement park stuff.

If you take a cruise, plan on spending some time before or after the cruise for a land tour. You can do it yourself in Scandinavia, easily. Sweden, Norway and Denmark are great. We have been to Denmark three times. However, Nordic Visitor has some great tours.

Still, taking a cruise up those amazing fjords in Norway was priceless. Also, St Petersburg is special and most cruises have two days of touring there.

If you need more help, send me a private message.

Posted by
555 posts

For a visit to the Baltic region and St. Petersburg, a cruise is logistically ideal and thus is a serious option. There are cruise lines like Azamara that emphasize time in port so your time in St. Petersburg might be two and a half days. And you can always combine substantial time in favorite destinations before and after the cruise.

Years ago I did take a Baltic cruise on Azamara, and the trip was delightful. I spent time in Stockholm before the cruise and time in Denmark after the cruise.

For what it is worth, I am glad I visited St. Petersburg--it has extraordinary sights--but have no desire to return to Russia. And I thought Stockholm perhaps the most underrated city in Europe.

Posted by
46 posts

@Richard - I've been to St. Petersburg (when it was still Leningrad). I'm glad I went, but it's kind of a 'been-there, done-that' thing with me (ditto with Helsinki, but there I can visit with friends & my host brother). I will check out Azamara, but am pretty focused on Viking, if I cruise. Viking will allow me to 'skip' St. Petersburg - I can spend the extra time either in Helsinki or Tallinn on my own dime & re-board when the ship is in port. A land-based tour would still give me more time in each destination. I love Stockholm - even though I have been there 4 times (in 1998 most recently), I feel there is still a lot I've missed out on.

Posted by
2207 posts

Viking Ocean is a relatively new & exciting product - perhaps the youngest luxury fleet sailing today. Their ships are larger than Azamara, averaging about 930+ passengers. Azamara is usually just under 690 on their ships. Azamara is a popular, relaxed luxury product.

Also sailing in the Baltic, on a much smaller and more intimate ship is Silversea. With usually just understand 400 passengers and about 300 crew members - one of the highest crew-to-passenger ratios in the industry, their hallmark is service. And they do an excellent job. They have multiple Baltic sailings available on 7 and 10-day routes.

Another favorite is Seabourn. Their ships average about 450 passengers and they do have Northern Europe sailings. I've also sailed Oceania (larger ships - more than 1,200 passengers). Their expertise is FOOD, and they do a wonderful job. They do have Baltic and Scandanavia voyages as well. Celebrity has a Norwegian Fjords cruise. I wish Seadream did the Baltic as they do a great job on a smaller ship.

Norwegian, Regent Seven Seas, Princess, and Holland America also sail in this area. But I think the smaller ships offer a more intimate, relaxed, and leisurely pace.

Posted by
6918 posts

I'm keen on visiting cities, not small towns or the interior.

There are many things to see that are not along the coast. But if you prefer the coastal areas, there is nothing wrong with that. The problem with a cruise from a Swedish point of view is that they often focus on the Baltic sea and forget the west coast.

Nordic Visitor seems to use excellently-placed hotels near
transportation and touristy areas. In Stockholm & Oslo, the hotels are
practically attached to central train stations.

I'm not sure I would recommend a hotel in Stockholm that is that close to the central station. While those hotels are great for business travellers, it is not an area I'd like to stay in if on vacation. It is not unsafe by any means, but boring and a lot of traffic.

Posted by
46 posts

@Badger - Yeah, it isn't fun Södermalm, but that's okay. Nordic Visitor uses Hotel C, which so far in my research looks okay to me. Short walks get me to Gamla Stan, Sergelstorget, Kungsträdgården, Akademi Bokhandeln, City Hall & Skeppsholmen. Nordic Visitor also has a more luxurious option - I don't know what that is, since I won't be using that upgrade. Viking uses a Radisson hotel very near there for their Stockholm extension. City Hall is the closest major attraction to it, I believe. I may have been to the west coast (in 1989) - Malmö, Lund, Eslöv & Landskrona (I know, only two of those are actually on the coast), if that part of Skåne/the Øresund area counts as such.

Posted by
46 posts

@RnR - Isn't it generally true that the smaller cruises are more expensive? I don't need all that much luxury but think Viking is about as expensive (& large) as I'd like to get . I'm thinking Silverstream is pretty expensive, but not as bad as Tauck. Or that one that advertises on TV that their ship's stairwells feature swarovsky (sp?) crystals...

Posted by
2207 posts

Certainly, Silversea is one of the more luxurious - and more expensive lines. It is like staying in a 5-star+ hotel and priced accordingly. Whereas a comparable cabin on Viking may start at $3500pp, a Silversea cruise of the same duration may cost $5300pp. Yes, they are more expensive, but if you're thinking this is your last trip abroad, and you want to make it count, they're a great option. There are many inclusive items that do come into play on Silversea and other premium lines. Silversea advertises their product this way:

It's all included with Silversea. Yes, that’s right. Everything. From
24-hour gourmet dining and butler service to award-winning
entertainment, first-class wines premium spirits, and shore excursions
for the expedition cruises, it’s all in there. What’s more, we have
added shore excursions as well for classic cruises from Summer 2022.
Whether you want to enjoy in-depth discovery of a destination or
simply be pampered by your butler, relax in the knowledge that there
will be no extra price tag at the end of your cruise.

Tauck does a great job of presenting comparisons between their costs and what you would pay on a similar river cruise, as they are far more inclusive than many of their river competitors. On a Tauck Ocean-going cruise, they do not own these ships but charter them, primarily through Ponant which is an excellent line. Sometimes you have to drill down to get apples-to-apples comparisons - beyond what you simply pay for the cabin.

I am not a cruiser - my wife LOVES to cruise. So yes, I've been on many ships - ranging from a Queen Mary II transatlantic cruise to a Carnival 3-day cruise to the Bahamas. 7 days is about all I can take. On most, I cringe when I get the nightly summation of our "add-on" expenditures. When you disembark with an onboard expense bill near what you paid to cruise, you do start thinking about what is inclusive.

I suppose smaller ships probably do cost more. They don't have interior or oceanview cabins. Their ships are primarily veranda cabins and suites. There's the all-inclusive element. With a higher passenger-to-crew ratio, there comes a level of service that dictates the price, perhaps much like staying in a 5-star hotel vs. a 4-star hotel. That said, you won't catch me on a 6,000 person Royal Caribbean mega-ship. I have no interest in that environment.

Viking Ocean does a good job - they don't have the service standards of Cunard or Silversea, the food of Oceania, the relaxed, laid-back and more intimate atmosphere of Seabourn, Azamara, or Seadream Yacht, but I've known many folks have enjoyed their new and more modern ships

Regarding the Swarovski crystal staircases, you're thinking of MSC Cruises, which started that design in 2008. They are not on my list for preferred cruise lines; just too inconsistent.

I'd price out your preferred Viking Ocean cruise. Then go and compare it with others, looking at what the beverage package might cost, or Wi-Fi, or the "better" alcohols & wines, a coffee card, specialty dining options, and so on - those things that are important to you. See if gratuities are included in the base price and what are the shore excursion costs. Are you offered an OBC (On-Board Credit)? Are there incentive credits - for example, if you have a military background? Look to see if the base price on one compares equitably with another. Again, the Tauck group are masters at making these comparisons.

Of course, if you find THE CRUISE that fits your ports of call, your timeframes, and your preferred cost, then look no more! Good Luck.

Posted by
470 posts

If you like to knit a Viking ocean cruise is a real gem, even a “ purl” one might say. 🥴 ( There was a group of knitters who met every day in the lovely Wintergarden space, often for afternoon tea.)
We have only done one cruise, and picked Viking after much research based on our priorities. It is hard to imagine any company doing it better and providing as much real value.

Here is what we liked:

  1. No kids, no smoking, no casinos, no formal dress,no up charge for any of the restaurants including room service, no pressure to book optional excursions, no crowds in any of the common spaces.
  2. Yes to unlimited food and drink 24/ 7 including your room’s minibar stocked daily with your favorite drinks and snacks, yes to the free launderettes on each floor, yes to elegant king size bed staterooms with ample storage/heated bathroom floors/upscale toiletries. Yes to every room having its own balcony with chairs and a table. Yes to unlimited wine/ beer at lunch , dinner, and late night brandy and to encouragement to buy whatever local potables you want on shore to bring back and enjoy. ( everything from corkscrew to crystal glassware already stocked in your room, and bars happily giving you buckets of ice). Yes to free movies, lectures, port talks, ample space by the indoor/ outdoor pool and/ or hot tub(s). Yes to personable, interesting international staff who went above and beyond to make each guest comfortable and welcome. Yes to truly beautiful surroundings and vistas in myriad choices main spaces. Yes to an extensive library, classical music softly playing,complementary full afternoon tea service, and special surprise wine tastings, food sampling’s, etc.

Here are the downsides for us:

1.The included excursions were mostly just bus rides and the optional excursions were pricey. ( albeit excellent). We compensated by studying our destinations ahead of time and planning our own adventures while on shore. Worked like a charm. There was usually at least one full day in each port with buses and/ or small boat tenders transporting folks off/ back onto the ship.
2.While every single staff member was excellent, some of the passengers got my blood boiling. Calling a server “ boy”, yelling at a server to “ speak better English”, talking loudly about how many
“ foreigners” there were. Ugh.
3. It was much more expensive than either independent travel or a RS- type tour. It was also something we will remember forever with daily “ wow” moments.

SO…for us this was going to be a “ one and done” type of travel. Then Covid hit with nightmare cruise stories, and now post- Covid travel looms. In the greatest irony of all, a Viking ocean cruise is probably the safest way to travel right now. Everyone ( passengers and crew) must be fully vaccinated, pre- tour Covid tests and daily testing on board. Medical testing labs and upgraded facilities/ medical staff on every ship. One room for the entire trip instead of multiple hotel rooms.
Hope this is helpful. Check out videos of the Viking ocean cruises. There are accurate in depicting the experience.

Posted by
2154 posts

Just wanted to offer my two cents and throw some additional support for Viking. I never thought I’d like cruising and avoided it until a few years ago. My first cruise was on Royal Caribbean and I really didn’t enjoy the experience - too many people, kids, roving photographers, up charges for specialty restaurants, and poor, expensive internet.

We did a Viking Rhine river cruise in 2017 and combined it with independent travel pre and post, great trip. At this point we were in love with Viking and did the Midnight Sun, Northern Lights, and Australia/New Zealand ocean cruises. We are planning to do the Arctic Expedition cruise in 2022. Viking is a very good fit for us and might be for you too!

Posted by
6918 posts

Yeah, it isn't fun Södermalm, but that's okay. Nordic Visitor uses
Hotel C, which so far in my research looks okay to me.

I've never stayed at Hotel C, but I've used it for meetings and small conferences a few times. It is a great location close to the railway station. And it certainly is an okay hotel, nothing wrong with it at all. But if it was me, I'd prefer to take the short walk towards Gamla stan and stay somewhere nicer. But, that is just me, and you seem familiar with Stockholm.

I may have been to the west coast (in 1989) - Malmö, Lund, Eslöv &
Landskrona (I know, only two of those are actually on the coast), if
that part of Skåne/the Øresund area counts as such.

Skåne is usually not considered part of west coast. I'd say the west coast starts north of Hallandsås.

Posted by
3111 posts

Good post, Tom. I like the idea of plugging in a destination with your budget and see what the algorithm comes up with.

Our week-long trip for two to Iceland including flights, hotel, transportation, and tours comes to $2800. Then again I booked this in December 2020 for July 2021.

Edit: MuchAdoAboutKnitting - $2800 total for two people from Icelandair package deal. 5 nights in a hotel, round-trip flights, transportation to and from airport, and daily tours including the Blue Lagoon, volcano, Snafelnus (sorry) peninsula, Golden Circle, and a 3-hour walking tour of Reykjavik. If we become enthralled with Iceland we will do the ring road next time.

Posted by
46 posts

@RnR - I don't want to be on the huge vessels either, but think I could handle Viking's passenger load. I don't need a high level of service & prefer to eat ashore (& send as much time ashore) as possible, even if it means I'm losing money (the 'free' food onboard).

@TravelingMom - What a stitch you are (sorry)! Actually, I'd be embarrassed to take knitting materials with me - 1. I'm a guy & 2. Though I enjoy it, I'm pretty horrid. I took it up to deal with Covid's isolation. That, & color books. Plus, I may not want to pack all that stuff if I decide to travel light (wouldn't knitting needles be a no-no in carry-on bags?). I think I'll be skipping most of the excursions, maybe even the free ones. The expense of a cruise doesn't matter to me as much as having too little time everywhere, possibly. I can add extensions, but those will only add to the cost. I'm really hoping Covid won't be an issue in 2023, but I intend on always wearing masks on planes from now on.

@Donna - Thanks: that is making Viking look even more appealing in my eyes.

@Tom_MN - That would be an excellent resource. I don't need butlers, 5-star hotels, all the alcohol I can drink, fine dining or private cars. Such a site might make it easier for me to choose between cruising & touring.

@Grävling (I just learned this word today) - Well, I'll be locked into whatever hotels Nordic Visitor or Viking chooses to use, for good or ill. If I could choose, I'd like to try one of those old sailing ships used as hotels. The ones off Skeppsholmen or Riddarholmen.

@BigMikeWestByGodVirginia - That sounds like an amazing price for Iceland: that's per person, right? Have a great trip!

Posted by
6918 posts

Imponerande, det är sällan något brukar bry sig om att lära sig ett såpass litet språk som svenska! I realised a while ago that it might not be the best name to use on a forum mostly used by Americans, as our badgers are a bit different. But I like them.

In that case there is not much to do, but for me it would be a strong argument to not cruise. And as mentioned, I'm not a fan of cruises or other group tours. That being said, there are a lot worse options than Hotel C! But the old sail ships have a certain charm that is hard to beat for a land based hotel, I can especially recommend Af Chapman at Skeppsholmen, and if you want to splurge, the captains quarter.

Posted by
46 posts

@Badger - Jag hoppas att tala svenska i Sverige! Jag försöker lära mig svenska (og dansk) och studera två - tre timmar per dag. Jag brukar Duolingo, Clozemaster, 6.000 Words och läroböcker. Min dansk er en smule bedre. Ja osan suomea (puhukieltä) kuin hämeläiset, mutta huonosti. For Swedish, I'm tripped up by prepositions all the time. I need to expand my pitiful vocabulary. And I cannot make the 'skj' sound to save my life...

Yikes! Our badgers look like they are rabid psychotics!

That's part of why I'm not 100% sold on cruising - I would have more independence. flexibility & much more time in each place. If I went with Nordic Visitor, it would be an independent, solo tour (but they do offer small group tours of 15 people or so). The option I'm looking at would give me most of a day in Stockholm (sailing in from Tallinn), two full days in the city & a partial 4th day (I can choose between flying or taking a train down to Copenhagen) - I don't know how early I'll be leaving. Either way, I'd leave the Hotel C to take a train to the airport or my next destination.

Skeppsholm is my favorite island - it is so pretty & relatively quiet/not terribly touristy. And filled with museums. So the af Chapman would be my top choice of hotels. And I could have a view of Södermalm, my favorite part of the city.

Posted by
130 posts

If you visit the fjords in Norway, you may see giant ships in some of them, towering over little towns like Geiranger.

And you also see large plumes of smoke, even from ships which are anchored. Probably running generators for the cabins.

I understand the convenience for many but these behemoth ark-like ships probably alter some of the places they go to, probably not for the good.

It's much trickier to find your way to some of these fiords, using buses, trains and smaller ferries. But you wouldn't be contributing to the problems these giant ships bring.

Posted by
6918 posts

Jag hoppas att tala svenska i Sverige! Jag försöker lära mig svenska
(og dansk) och studera två - tre timmar per dag. Jag brukar Duolingo,
Clozemaster, 6.000 Words och läroböcker. Min dansk er en smule bedre.
Ja osan suomea (puhukieltä) kuin hämeläiset, mutta huonosti. For
Swedish, I'm tripped up by prepositions all the time. I need to expand
my pitiful vocabulary.

Impressive! Especially that you are attempting both Danish and Swedish, Danish pronounciation can be really tricky and hard to understand. In a way the Danes are the Swiss Germans of Scandinavia. (I have to share a sketch from a Norwegian TV-show about the Danish language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk .) And don't worry too much about prepositions, they are always tricky when learning languages. But this is an area where the Germanic part of English really shows up, so the prepositions in English and Swedish are not that different.

And I cannot make the 'skj' sound to save my life...

It is a bit tricky, but it is pretty similar to "sh" in english (as in shine), just move your tongue a bit further back.

(I can choose between flying or taking a train down to Copenhagen)

Don't bother flying to Copenhagen. You will most likely not save much, if any, time. And it will cost at least twice as much and be more cumbersome with all the airport faff.

Skeppsholm is my favorite island - it is so pretty & relatively
quiet/not terribly touristy.

I agree, it is a lovely part of Stockholm with great views of the rest of the city!

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46 posts

@Badger - Ja - Danskerne snakker med kartofler i munden. I don't tend to get the two mixed, but when I do it is always Danish bleeding into Swedish, never the reverse. My goal is to use languages somewhat more than Rick Steve does everywhere I go. Something more than just 'please, thank you, excuse me, hello, goodbye,' etc. Though in Estonia, I may just punt & use Finnish or Russian (though both are rusty). And my plan in Norway is to use Danish, but pronounce it like Swedish.

I think I prefer to take the train down to Copenhagen. I just walk out the door of the hotel & I'm on my way. For the scenery & relaxed pace. I'd like to pass through in Skåne when those yellow flower [rapeseed?] fields are in bloom. That is a fond memory of my earlier trip to southern Sweden. And I look forward to taking the bridge, rather than a 55 minute or so ferry ride. Nordic Visitor's default option is flying, but you can request the train instead. The cost is built-in, but I might get a discount - I need to ask them.

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46 posts

@aghast11 - That is a definite minus in the cruising column. I think Viking is better in this regard than many companies, but I'll do further research.

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3324 posts

I have a lot of random thoughts on this and will probably forget many of them before I finish, LOL But a little background first so you can rule out or absorb my thoughts. The only cruise (and my first solo vacation) was in a windjammer off the coast of Maine in 1978. It was wonderful, but it was for the cruise or sailing portion (and the amazing food), not for sight seeing. I have traveled independently 95% of the time, solo domestically starting in the 1970's. My first completely solo international trip was to Sweden in 2015.

My 2 cents:
1. If cruising intrigues you, take a cheap cruise from the US around the Caribbean or such place to get a taste. I wouldn't waste my sightseeing time or money, especially if I thought it was my only trip, on a cruise in a Europe. On my Sweden trip I started and ended in Stockholm. I arrived in May and left about a week before mid-summer celebrations. When I arrived, Stockholm was peaceful. When I returned at the end of my trip, the cruise ships were starting to arrive. The tone of the city changed, frankly, with American cruisers overpowering the people at sites, with stupid questions, and talking about themselves rather than the history, etc. Is it Americans or American cruisers? I don't really know, but it left a negative taste in my mouth to see the huge difference with and without cruise ships. (I am American, btw.) Is it because their time is limited? I don't know. (I don't mean to offend anyone. I don't mean ALL cruisers are like that, but it is what I noticed.)
-In Greece, when at some of the sites there were fairly large groups of people following a person with a flag with

"Viking" and a number around the site. There were a number of these groups at each site. Not my type of travel.

  1. I did not find Sweden particularly expensive, but I live in the Boston area. In fact, my least expensive hotel was actually in Stockholm, on Södermalm. My meal types varied, but I love to dine solo at rather lovely restaurants with a glass of wine, periodically through my trips. Expenses, no more than at home.

  2. If you want to practice Swedish, then a cruise is not the place to be, IMO. Traveling solo people are just friendlier to you and provide conversational opportunities (or were amazing to me). I play with any language when I am traveling as you seem to want to do. As far as being lonesome, I have more fun with people when I travel solo than my introvert self does at home. I do believe introverts are happier traveling solo though and extroverts are not. I think maybe the personalities switch a bit in travel, not sure.

  3. My cruise comments noted above, I want to take the Hurtigurten Ferry Service up the Norwegian coast...and disembark at the small towns. So, never say never.

  4. Sweden is so easy on one's own. I traveled to the north and down to Småland, via trains and buses. Enjoyed the Scenery and the relaxing. I did fly north as my train was cancelled due to rail work, and it was fine, but I had been looking forward to the scenery. I took the night train back to Stockholm, so I missed most of that scenery. But I love sleeping on trains as well. So, my recommendation, stick to the ground to not miss anything.

Conclusion: Split your cruise and Scandinavian visit into two trips. Cruise from the US with an inexpensive fair, and enjoy early mornings and evenings in Scandinavia by not cruising...and enjoy the people, sites, etc. as well.

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6918 posts

Though in Estonia, I may just punt & use Finnish or Russian (though
both are rusty).

Be careful using Russian in Estonia, while some do speak Russian they are not always that keen on using it as it was the language of the oppressor that occupied Estonia during the cold war. While you might encounter native Russian speaker, you will also encounter those who find it extremely offensive if you use Russian. So in general English is the safer option.

And my plan in Norway is to use Danish, but pronounce it like Swedish.

That will probably be close enough! Swedish, Norwegian and Danish are not three distinct languages but three standard version of the same dialect continuum. I've never bothered to learn Norwegian, but when I'm in Norway I speak Swedish, they speak Norwegian and we understand each other. Danish is a bit trickier though.

I'd like to pass through in Skåne when those yellow flower [rapeseed?]
fields are in bloom. That is a fond memory of my earlier trip to
southern Sweden.

Rapeseed is correct. And I agree, those bright yellow fields are very beautiful.

Nordic Visitor's default option is flying, but you can request the
train instead. The cost is built-in, but I might get a discount - I
need to ask them.

Do request the train. It is 5 hours direct from Stockholm to Copenhagen, flying might save you 15-20 minutes at best. But will waste a lot of time standing in line and waiting. And if you are unfamiliar with the airports, flying might actually take longer. The train on the other hand will give you 4:45 or so of useable time. Where you can read, catch up on social media, watch a movie or whatever you prefer. And since it is cheaper you could ask if they will book a 1st class ticket, that will give you a slightly larger seat and free coffee and tea.

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46 posts

@Wray - And I'll probably forget to respond to everything you said I wanted to!

Well, cruising just took a big hit with me. Viking has raised its price for the cruise I was interested in by over $2000. I'll still do the research, I have a lot of time to decide before putting any money down.

I don't have any interest in cruising in the US or nearby. I was just intrigued by the whole idea of checking in/out once & unpacking/packing once while the destinations all come to me.

I feel pretty lonely when traveling solo. I'm seeing all this amazing stuff, but have no one to share it with. But at the same time, I cannot ever see myself taking a guided group tour - not even Nordic Visitor's small groups (15 + 1 tour leader).

I am the type who would be up as early as possible for breakfast, then go out to walk, explore & take pics before the tourists & commuters are out & about.

I hope Boston is bouncing back from Covid (spellcheck wants me to change this to 'corvid') & opening up. I went out there to go to school & ended up staying for 15 years! I loved it, but the prices ultimately drove me back home. I definitely will wear my Sox ballcap anywhere I go in Europe (the last time I travelled I saw Yankees gear everywhere)!

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46 posts

@Badger - As Viking is rapidly pricing itself out of my budget, Nordic Visitor is looking more attractive. A rep. has built me a 20 day, custom, solo tour based on my two favorite options. As for a sample cruising experience, it will feature two overnight & one Hurtigruten ferry sailings.

Tack för informationen om tåget; jag hade inte tänkt på det. I will see if Nordic Visitor will upgrade to 1st class. I know they are willing to upgrade cabins on the overnight ferries...

I would only use Russian with people whose name tags show 1st & last names that are Russian. Or possibly if I hear them speaking Russian. Estonian is not an option: I cannot memorize the simplest words or phrases. They turn into Finnish.

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6918 posts

I usually don't pay for first class on the train, but if it is too much extra i can be nice. 2nd class is usually fine though.

Most Estonians that are young enough to have been to school in independent Estonia will speak at least basic English so that is usually the safer bet. Finnish, Swedish or German might also work. But good that you know the pitfalls of speaking Russian!