thwarting pick-pockets

I think a lot depends where you are traveling. Paris, Italy and Spain are well known for pickpockets. I've never travelled to any of these places but if I did I'd use a money belt.
I tend to travel Central Europe. Just spent time in Prague, Cracow, Budapest and Vienna. Never used my money belt but had my passport in a zipped pocket inside another zipped pocket.of my cross body bag, which I never take off. My phone was usually in my hand attached to the external battery cord in the outer pocket on my purse. It was kept zipped when the phone was in the pocket.
I have never been overly concerned with pickpockets but I just haven't travelled to any of the high risk areas yet.
Where are you traveling???

Moneybelts. My husband will use one ... I have a secure cross-body
shoulder bag - should I keep my passport there or in our hotel room?

That's an easy one. Just connect the dots. (= Ask your husband to take your passport for you.) :-)

iPhones... that's a tougher one. I think it's important to teach your kids to be aware of their surroundings.

Many pickpockets seem to love crowds. And I've seen teens, completely engrossed in their iPhone, standing dreamily right in the middle of a fast-moving crowd in a major train station. That seems just like an invitation for someone to simply snatch it out of their hands, and they'll be completely stunned.

So, have your kids take pictures all they want while walking up and down the Colosseum. But teach them to keep a close watch and put their iPhones in a safe place whenever they are moving in a crowd, whenever they enter a bus or train, or whenever the situation seems to be unclear in any way.

You have to use some common sense. Cell phones are an attractive item so don't be sloppy in where they keep them. No half sticking out of back pockets. Might be well for you to carry the phones in your bag when not using them. My wife wears her money belt in the small of her back just below the bra line. Wearing a dress would not affect that location. Do need to wear a blouse or shirt that is a solid color. I personally believe that you should have your passport with you at all times but others do not and think leaving in a hotel is safe is safe -- but there are postings where that was a problems. If it is on you, you know where it is at all times. The big only problem with any bag is that you may want to put it down, etc., and that is when a problem can develop. The test is always -- The easier it is for you to get to it, the easier it will be for someone else.

Rick Steves had his wallet stolen in Paris a few days ago...on the metro...cash credit cards and drivers license....he sticks out like a sore thumb in Paris or Italy or Spain and most likely you will too...it is real, organized gangs make a living on tourists.

I have worn a classic cotton money belt for over 22 years when I travel to Europe...with passport in zip lock plastic bag, over 1000 (insert currency here) and 2 credit cards...you will hardly know it is there, especially with a dress. Peace of mind is worth it to me...and I am a native New Yorker with family in Rome and Naples...I would never put any valuables in any bag no matter how "anit theft" it claims to be.

I would never leave my passport in a hotel room or rental apartment. In many countries, including Spain, one must carry a passport for legal reasons, and leaving valuables in your hotel room, jewelry etc is not really a good idea, the " electric safe" can be easily opened.

Phones could be targeted..don't leave them on counters or cafe tables. Lanyards could work well for many reasons, the phone won't be dropped while taking photos and it is ON you not in a bag. These are basically camera straps that can be affixed to any phone that is IN a case, just loop the strap through one of the case openings.

I also use this in France and Italy for the last 7 years...( haven't been to Spain in 15 years but it is a poor country with a lot of tourism, so beware.)
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Belle-Hop-Personal-Stash-Safe-Travel-Neck-Bra-Secret-Pouch-Bag-Id-Holder-Money

I put my day cash and one credit card in this...only attach it to ONE side of my bra and tuck it into my bra under my armpit..you won't feel it with a few bills and one cc...then you can reach in and take this out..with straps still attached...and pay for things as needed.

Remember, you are not at home. You must realize how well organized gangs target tourists, it is a very real thing, so just take a few precautions and have a great trip.

P.S. between you and your husband you should each consider having your own plus one child's passport in your under clothing pouch. I have carried two plus cards money and a gold watch, and you will get used to it and not even feel it. Get a cotton one...

Pick pockets generally operate in crowded venues (buses and subway trains especially). Be vigilant in those circumstances. Purses and backpockets are more vulnerable than waist pouches.

Carrying phones in the back pocket, half sticking out, as youngsters do because they think that looks cool, is going to be a problem. Buy them a belt phone case. There are plenty similar in the market, just look online.

How old are the teens? I am a big believer in teaching personal responsibility. Be sure there is no private information on their phones, have them read the tips on how to avoid becoming a victim of pickpocketing or other tourist scams, and tell them they are responsible for keeping their phone safe. If it gets lost, forgotten, or stolen, too bad. Harsh? Maybe. But it teaches a valuable lesson about protecting valuables.

I don't use a moneybelt very often. I'm probably asking for trouble here, but I see no issue with a purse (with an inside zipper pocket) that I wear cross body. The purse closes with a zipper - open top or magnet closures are asking for trouble. Mine has an easily accessible outside pocket where I might keep 20E for basic daily expenses, along with things like chapstick. Then it has a big compartment inside for my camera and inside zipper pockets - phone and credit card. What I do is be aware of the surroundings, don't leave bag hanging open, and leave excess cash, credit card I'm not using (I have one I don't use but take for emergencies) and passport in the hotel safe when staying in town. Controversial, I know. If I do need to have my passport on me (day trips out of the city, for example), I will just safety pin the inside pocket closed. That prevents pickpockets, but obviously the whole purse itself could be taken. That's a different, more rare kind of theft than simple pickpockets, though.

Iphones - don't keep them in a back pocket and don't leave them on a table out of easy sight. In general a thief would gladly take one if it's available, but they are so common that it won't make your kids a specific target. As long as the phone isn't left unattended or in a back pocket/opentop bag. Every third person has one out at all times, just like here. It's not Brazil where I was told to keep my phone out of sight at all times or else I'd be followed by a mugger (don't think this is quite true, but it's the advice I got). My husband keeps his in his front pocket and mine is in my purse inside pocket. i\

Teenagers? Insure the phones. And tell them if the phone gets stolen, they don't get a replacement until they get home.

Let them keep the phones in a front pocket and have their hand in that pocket when in a crowd or riding public transit.

I'd recommend using a neck pouch in a neutral color, worn underneath your clothes.
You shouldn't be carrying a lot in there, anyway.

A cross-body purse with zippers is a good idea, but you don't have to put cable locks or anything on the zippers if you pay attention. Again, you shouldn't carry a lot of credit cards or cash in there, anyway.

Make color copies of all your passports - including the ID page and last entry page - and carry those with you.

Leave the actual passports in the hotel safe. It is a royal pain to replace them.

Don't carry your phones around unless you are actually using them - and then, you should go someplace secure - like a cafe - to use them.
It's easy to be distracted with teenagers around. Pay attention to your valuables at all times, and remind them to be vigilant.

Insure your phones. Thieves will just remove the SIM card and sell the phones, but it's better to be safe than sorry.
I saw a group of German tourists on the bus and all of them had their phones in their hands. A pickpocket ran off with one of them through the exit door.
Back up photos if you are carrying a computer.

Metro and Bus are notorious for having phones stolen - especially if you stand near the exit doors and are holding them in your hand.
Keep Metro or Bus tickets handy until you reach the sidewalk level, or you will risk a fine.

Velcro or large diaper pins work very well to secure pockets, but you have to make sure to use them every time.

And tell them if the phone gets stolen, they don't get a replacement
until they get home.

Now isn't that going to be an incentive for being vigilant, knowing they will certainly get a replacement for a lost or stolen phone!

I'd tell them quite clearly they will have to pay for a replacement themselves if they lose it or have it stolen due to any sort of negligence on their part.

That will always leave room for mercy on your part or on the insurance's part to replace it anyway, in which case you'll end up being the all-time favorite parent.

But why on earth would you promise to replace it beforehand? Doesn't make sense to me.

I have never used a money belt or any special bags. I keep my things in a small back pack that I use everyday which has zippers I can lock. When I travel and go where the risks are greater, I put a small lock on the zipper so the bag can't be opened and the key deep in my pocket. Sometimes if I'm more cautious, I turn the back pack around so the bag is in the front. My kids also did this and we fortunately never had any issue. I usually had to remind them to keep bags near, double check to be sure they were locked, but that's normal parent life.

Going one day without their phone is a major catastrophe to today's teenagers. Telling them they can't walk into a store that day or the next and buy a new one is going to get them thinking "I'd better be careful with my phone." Most kids have enough money saved to buy even a cheap smartphone to fill their temporary needs. Re-read what I wrote. I didn't say the parents have to get the replacement. I said the teens "don't get one until they get back home."

And when they get back home, they'll find a way to get a phone--cheaper model, refurbished one, etc. The insurance is for the parents because they are still liable for the payments if the phone is stolen. Insurance will take care of that.

I did read what you wrote, and yes, I am aware that even one day without a phone is a terrible punishment for teens. And I wouldn't mind at all if they got some cheap phone for themselves in the meantime.

Yet, "the teens don't get one until they get back home" sounds more like a promise to me than like a warning.

There are more reasons than one why I would never say that kind of thing to my kids.

In the first place, not sure how your insurances work, but in my experience, insurances usually try to get around paying for lost or stolen items if they see any way at all of doing so. Even with insurance, you may not get it replaced, depending on the circumstances. And then mommy and daddy will end up being confronted with their children's laments: "But you promised..." - and they may even end up paying for it themselves.

In the second place, I wouldn't want my kids to grow up with the attitude "You don't need to learn to be responsible and look after your stuff. Insurance is going to pay anyway." Or: "No matter what how careless you are with your things, mommy and daddy will eventually replace everything anyway."

These phones are expensive, and mommy and daddy have probably worked hard to be able to buy that kind of stuff for their kids in the first place. That is something I would want my children to understand. An easy replacement after vacation would make them feel like money's no issue.

As a solo traveller over 30 years ago I carried a couple thousand in traveller checks and passport in a money belt. Those of us who have traveled for that many years have seen transitions. Money belts and the new t-shirts with zippered pockets are a good idea. Now, I travel with my husband and split valuables between the two of us. Do we use hotel safes? Yes. Do we carry separate credit cards with different numbers? Yes. Do we utilize ATMs? Yes. Do we use a cloud server for copies of our documents? No, considering it! Are there pickpockets and peddlers in Lisbon in 2017? Yes. My bag has a zipper section with a full length zipper and no valuable in that section. The other section is a book size flip, a small wallet is in this deep section and against my body. The thief left me alone. Hubby places wallet in front zipper pocket. Can I identify a thief? No. A woman within a group of 4 carrying 2 coffees and a non zipped bag was robbed! A locking zip is a good idea! Do we carry multiple cell phones? No. I have wondered why we can not just carry a bar code for a passport? International servers at passport control have our information! I no longer am riding a rickety train between the borders of Italy and France with a solitary man in cap checking passports. Today, German Bahn wants to make sure you have a ticket, not a passport!

Ms. Jo- I post here to help if I can. There are times when I may not follow the advice someone offers if it wouldn't work for me, but I don't write and imply that it was a stupid idea. If my suggestion doesn't work for you, you are under no obligation to follow it. I find how I travel easy. I use my phone as my camera and keep it in my hand for pictures. I rarely go into my bag unless I stop for a meal. I have always traveled light and this works for me. If it doesn't work for you, why do you need to disparage the suggestions of others?

I don't think Ms. Jo implied it was a stupid idea, just one that was too cumbersome for her to use. Everyone tries to find the right solution for their needs.

I use my iPad for photos, so it's almost always with me. I unzip my messenger bag, take out the iPad, REZIP the bag, take the photo(s), unzip the bag, replace the iPad inside, zip the zipper. Sounds like a lot, but not to me, and repeating the same process every bleeding time means I won't forget to rezip the bag at some point.

Hey,

My hubby likes to take pics on his phone when we are traveling so we got him this type of phone case and he wears it around his neck and if we are in a crowd, he puts it in his shirt.....

Kind of disguises his phone and people think it's a camera and it's not in his pocket.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Retro-3D-Camera-Shockproof-Back-Phone-Case-Cover-For-iPhone-6-6s-7-7Plus-/222339389605?var=&hash=item33c475d8a5:m:mGpjJAMLAhH8vDSUGpbwwww

oh and I have a pacsafe purse that I wear cross body and I never take off.....as long as you are good about keeping it zipper locked you should be good. Hubby has our passports in his belt loop pouch that he got here on this site.

Ms. Jo: Wow. perhaps reread your post. Imagine?
I have a simple everyday backpack which has a zipper at the top. I carry a tiny travel lock, put my things in my backpack and go. When I go into an area or situation where I feel a little more caution is needed, I put the lock on the zipper and I have no worries, no one can get anything. If I need to get something which is not often, I open it, get what I need in about one minute. I don't set it down, It goes back on my back. There are not multiple locks, which of course would not be practical. As far as the one minute it takes to quickly undo a lock, I prefer that over worry about someone taking something out. The way I travel works for me, but if not for you, no problem.

If you are wearing backpacks, as the German tourist group did on the bus, it would be a very good idea to stand with the backpack firmly against the window of the bus or Metro train.
The considerate alternative would be to turn it around and wear it against your chest.
You shouldn't need to carry too much in a backpack, anyway.

I've seen ordinary tourists looking like overloaded sherpas coming out of the Metro - what do they have in there???

Thanks, everyone! It's really helpful to hear people's different experiences and solutions. We'll talk as a family about what might work best for us and make changes as needed on our trip. Happy travels to all!

I deleted my posts and will leave this thread. You all have a nice evening.