The Real France (or England, etc)

Whether you visit Steinfeld in Oberfranken Germany, Paris, Barbaresco, Lisbon, Villefranche sur Mer, Prague or Dublin, you’re absorbing different parts of a country’s culture. And I feel they are all real, much as visiting East Corinth Vermont, Wheeling, NYC or Austin and finding the real America.

From a penetrating historical perspective (keeping this focused on France), Paris is not France. Look at the historical evidence from the 1500s on.

From what I've heard there's exactly the same attitude in the US, about how the "real America" is small towns in the country as opposed to those decadent big cities. Not an attitude I'm fond of.

The equivalent phrase in French is "la France profonde", if you want to see it through their eyes.

The Florida State Parks system uses 'The Real Florida' as its marketing slogan. Which in its particular case is meant as a message that there's more to the state than just the theme parks so it works for me in that context.

Big Mike, by God, some people must think West Virginia is "the real America." I know that you know better, "the real America" is lots of places, rural and urban, many regions, etc. Likewise European countries, on a smaller geographic scale. TV and Internet and fast cheap travel have homogenized all our cultures to the point that "the real ____ " is as likely to be a Disney or Coca Cola symbol as anything else. I'm not thrilled about this, but it's just what it is.

One of the things I like about visiting Europe is seeing lots of buildings and neighborhoods so much older than where I (or you) live, with character that we don't perceive as much at home. You can find such places in London and Paris, Cotswold villages and Dordogne towns, fields surrounded by hedgerows and stone walls, old churchyards, you name it, all over Europe.

I think there is an inherently bad assumption behind that thought. I think most people don't want to see "the Real ______". Most people are traveling to see the Hollywood / Disney World / Las Vegas Strip version of Europe (and the US in reverse). After all, its vacation, not education, that they're after. Some of that real stuff is not pretty or not that entertaining.

Usually when I see something promising the "Real" anything, they are trying to sell a fantasy to an outsider of something that does not exist in it's natural state, or at least one the "real" residents would recognize.

Most small towns filled with average working people I have been in are somewhat mundane by tourist standards, people going about their business or commuting to work, eating fast or easy prep foods, and complaining about bills, the government, and their jobs. That goes for small town France as well as small town US.

Dick, I don't have a dog in the fight, it's just something I've read and heard for some years now. The Tour de France commentators repeated the "Heart" vs "Soul" of France. Even on travel forums you see comments alluding to getting out of a city and seeing the "real" country.

My two cents would suggest, if practicable, to try and schedule a day trip outside the city you are visiting to get another perspective.

p.s. I'm a dog lover and have rescued greyhounds for years, so not "having a dog in the fight" and "beating a dead horse" should not be taken literally. Heck, we've even protested outside of greyhound tracks in Florida back in the day, but I digress, my friends.

Even Marie Antoinette wanted a more 'real' France so she had it made, but didn't like the smell so added perfume. Selling the concept, when the reality is too mundane....indeed.
That being said, because of a birdwatching hobby, I spend time outside the typical tourist areas and it is certainly a rewarding and grounding day. Mixing the rural and urban gives a broader picture of the whole.
But the heart or soul of a place? No, I don't see it that way. Think of Barcelona. A large percentage of the city are people from other cultures, they are known for their Catalan heritage that was denied for decades.....are they epitome of 'Spain'? I think not....but Spain would be less rich without them.

This is all marketing-speak used to make language more colorful and readable, or to try to stake some (often political) claim of authenticity or belongingness.

BMWBGV - The mythical "real" Texas involves cowboys expertly tending cattle on a thousand acre ranch while never doing a bad thing ever. The actual "real" Texas is more like a long line of cars waiting to enter a suburban shopping mall.

I may get slammed for saying this, but when I'm in Europe, I don't want to see the "real" France, Italy, Spain Austria, et al. I want to see what makes them famous - their art and historical monuments, along with their vineyards and antiquities. I can see real people at home.

Emma said it best. How representative of the entire US are New York City, Chicago, Honolulu and Los Angeles? but for the people that live each of those cities, it is their version of the US. There are many different areas of the country, each with its own distinctive culture, which constitutes the "reality" of the people who live in each one.

Big Mike, you hit on one of my absolute pet peeves.

I believe that if you are in the country, you are experiencing the real country as it is right now, even if it is not living up to your stereotype of what that country is supposed to be.

I'm not sure what a traditional personality is. I don't think that only cities are international or that the soul of a country is found only outside the cities. What some consider to be traditional is probably based in more recent times than in the long history of a place.

In England, there are vestiges of the Celts, the Romans and the Anglo-Saxons before the Vikings. It all adds up to the England we visit now. With 51% of my DNA from Britain, I like learning some of the history, but I'm much more interested in how people live today, whether that's in a big city or a village. They're both the real England and we can enjoy and learn from both.

I live in a city that people are told to avoid because it isn't the "real" Germany. As though it is some magical place where the Germans are something else. Please. Frankfurt is a real German city like any other German city. It has a different history perhaps, but that is what makes it unique. It is still German. Since it is much older than Munich, then perhaps it is more German than Munich? It is like comparing New York City and LA. Is one less American than the other?

It is all real. If it is in Germany, it is real German.

When people say they think a place is "real" or not, they typically mean what they perceive as a stereotype in their head. Everywhere in a country is "real".

Whilst scouring guidebooks, the internet, and so forth over the years I keep coming across a common refrain along the lines of, "London isn't the real England," and things of that nature.

I always interpret that as a reference to the population of the city in question. Major cities like London are very cosmopolitan with a large number of foreign born residents. This often leads to comparisons to other less diverse parts of the country with the accompanying claim that they are more 'authentic' representations of the native residents of that particular country. I can understand this to some degree as we all recognise certain steretypes of different nationalities and sometimes meeting such people is part of the attraction of travelling andthe perception being that you are more likely to encounter such stereotypes the farther you travel from the larger, more cosmopolitan cities.

I think Rick sometimes gives a slightly idealistic view of Europe in his books and tv shows. Most of us, especially as Americans with so little vacation time to begin with, are probably not going to be visiting farms and helping to shear sheep. Strike up a conversation with the ‘friendly local’ won’t always mean the person next to you will speak with an accent right out of a Dickens novel. Heck, if you meet me at a Chicago bar, I’m not going to sound like an SNL stereotype and talk about ‘Da Bears.’

London and Paris have been world class cities for almost 1000 years. They’re as ‘real’ as any other places. I’m quite sure my day to day life in Chicago is different from someone in West Virginia. But, there are more people in just my apartment building than in some cities in West Virginia.

For me, I focus on the cities in the UK, I’m not much one for small towns in the USA either. Cute, Quaint, and the Ye Olde don’t do much for me.

I do think it’s helpful to get out of London, plus it saves your budget! I’m trying Newcastle and Durham on my trip next month in addition to Liverpool and Manchester for repeat visits. But, I don’t think they’re any more ‘real’ than London or some Cotswold village. London is a living city, it’s not some Carribbean beach resort created especially for tourism.

What say I? Well, I think the "real" country is both city and countryside. Heart & soul permeate a nation regardless of population size.

The "real" anyplace topic is a pet peeve of mine too, right up there with the whole traveler-versus-tourist nonsense. It's not as if any of the places people live, work, raise families, go to school, etc. are manufactured Disneylands?

Shoot, a vast amount of most-visited, man-made tourist attractions in Europe today were not originally constructed as such, and some of them, such as cathedrals, still function as active houses of worship during non-visiting hours/services.

I love this topic, lots of differing opinions. I'll add mine:

Dublin in no way represents the "real Ireland".

Cities are cities. You can go to a city anywhere in the world and it's the same. Cities are filled with a generally diverse group of people busy making a living. Culture, history, language, music, food, family merge into a city blend. My sister got her doctorate (in linguistics) writing about how tribal languages blended to form the language of Abidjan, Ivory Coast. Young city dwellers revel in the night life while those with families rush home, lock their doors and try to escape the noise and traffic. Children don't know their extended families like children in small towns know them.

In a way cities around the world are like towns on the wine route in Alsace. They each have their claim to fame they believe makes them unique: San Diego Zoo, Tate Modern, El Prado, Le Louvre, Smithsonian, Times Square, Sydney Opera House, Disneyland, etc. Cities have museums, zoos and professional sports teams but they're a faint reflection of a country's culture. Some cities offer more, and better, sights than others. Those sights become must sees for visitors. "City", like "town on the Alsatian wine route" is, however, a generic term that describes them all - they're more alike than unique.

Outside the cities is where you experience real culture. Small towns and villages are where you can experience unadulterated traditional music, religion, family life, food, ways of earning a living. People in small towns know their history and they all share it. If you want to know what it means to be French, English, Irish, Polish, Russian or Spanish, you need to experience small town life and values.

To some extent, even the generic names of countries aren't really descriptive. It's probably better to separate by language and dialect. Within Spain, there are a number of unique cultures: Catalan, Basque, Gallego, Andalusian, Castillian. Even in Germany, there's a difference between north and south. In the north they're Lutheran and speak a different German than the Catholic Bavarians.

If you visit New York do you think one has a sense of America? I would say not really. You need to visit the flyover areas, too, in order to get a genuine feel of, say, Midwest pragmatism and sensibility, or Southern hospitality.

Same with Dublin compared to Ireland. The rest of Ireland is just so completely different and... Irish. Cities are more of an international/cosmopolitan conglomerate.

To understand America one has to visit places like Iowa, Georgia, and Lubbock, Texas. Totally different culture from NYC or LA.

Well, if to “understand America”. I need to visit Iowa, Georgia and Lubbock, Texas, I guess I never will understand America. Not that I really need to.

Did something of significance happen at Lubbock, Texas specifically? Apologies I am not trying to make light of anything, I'm just not familiar with the geography/history of the "middle America".

@BMWBGV, then you need to add Klamath Falls, OR, Peoria, IL, Wellesley Island, NY, and Bangor, Maine. There are a lot of 'regions' that fall outside the 'middle' America that are Real America and contribute to the whole.

BMWBGV
I have visited Burlington, Vt., Plattsburg, NY, Haddonsfield, NJ, Cape Cod, Mass. , . Would they count as the "soul of a region"? As for the traditional personalities you say can be found, in New Jersey I spent time with an American cousin who had a habit of falling off his bar stool but I wouldn't call that traditional.

Notice I said, "like Lubbock." In other words, on your way to Chicago you can do an overnight in a small Midwest town and see a much different culture. Pray tell you realize "like" doesn't mean literally that one thing, right? There's a broader point being made.

Nobody is suggesting not visiting cities, but Dublin is to Ireland like Washington DC is to America.

Some of my best memories of Germany and Ireland included the non-tourist stop-overs, where I met some really great people and unique, perspective-altering experiences. My perception of the country changed.

If one just wants to exclusively hit the big tourist sites, then to each their own.

Edit: Nobody is saying Dublin isn't Irish. "Real," in context, implies a more thorough and accurate portrait of a country. A more "real" sense of a country as an aggregate. (Do I really have to explain this?)

....that the city that has been here for 1000s of years isn't real

I was thinking the same about Rome, Paris, Athens, Lisbon, Seville, Trier, Cologne...

@ Big Mike....My first three trips to Germany in the course of the 1970s included seeing small towns, aside from the big places, like Munich, Frankfurt, Hannover, Hamburg and Berlin.

Those small towns, smaller cities are well worth visiting...Bonn, Marburg an der Lahn, Lüneburg, Eutin/Holstein, Wetzlar, Sigmaringen an der Donau, Rüdesheim am Rhein, Lübeck, Aachen, Bad Nauheim, Soest/West.

Certainly well worth it culturally and historically. After the end of the cold war, there would be more small towns/smaller cities that I explored for the same reasons...Wemar, (especially this place), Magdeburg, Potsdam, (repeatedly), Meissen, Dresden. etc.

Real," in context, implies a more thorough and accurate portrait of a country. A more "real" sense of a country as an aggregate. (Do I really have to explain this?)

Ugh. I find using the word ”real” in this way so offensive. I think what you intend to say is that you need to visit more than just the big cities to broaden your understanding of the the diverse and rich culture of a country.

I’ve spent much of my life in the Washingon, DC area. The people who live here are real Americans. DC is a real city. We are constantly insulted by people who say that DC is not ”real America”. DC is just as real as Lubbock, Texas and Birmingham, Alabama, and San Francisco, California. I completely agree that DC is not representative of the entire U.S. But then neither is Lubbock or Birmingham or San Francisco. You can’t visit any single place and assume that it is indicative of an entire country. Don’t try to classify certain places as ”real” and other places as imposters.

We had some young (mid-30s) friends visit us from New Zealand. They are accomplished world travelers (Dubai, Hong Kong, Singapore, most of Europe) but had only experienced San Francisco, New York, and Vancouver, B.C., in North America.

Our little slice of more rural America (population 10,500 Lincoln City that swells to 40,000 on summer weekends, holidays, and in August) was a stark contrast for them! Here they discovered country roads and untamed seashore (just like NZ!!), Tater Tots (nothing like these at home!!), and wanted to see a Walmart as there is nothing like it in Oz. Is this more "real?" No, just different.

I went to DC for the first time in early Dec 2016 to attend a conference held in the Convention Center. DC was interesting, culturally, sociologically, historically, (especially that aspect), intriguing, and I saw DC as different from Calif, went to most of the "frequented" sites and museums as time allowed, used only public transportation, no rental car, no Uber, or taxis, except to/fro the airport.

Would I go back to visit and explore DC more? Absolutely, but in the summer.

If you visit New York do you think one has a sense of America? I would
say not really. You need to visit the flyover areas, too, in order to
get a genuine feel of, say, Midwest pragmatism and sensibility, or
Southern hospitality.

If one doesn't get a "sense of America" from New York, one is purposely blind as a bat. The US isn't only some neatly-formed fixed entity of white males & females from as you call "flyover country". Why you think those of us who are native New Yorkers are less American than you, a lobsterman from Maine, or a policewoman from Ames IA is illogical. New Yorkers whose families hail from New York, Israel, North Carolina, Jamaica, El Salvador, Taiwan, Colorado, the Dominican Republic, India, Kenya and other nations & US states are as pragmatic, foolish, lazy, intelligent, & hardworking as anyone from West Virginia, New Hampshire, Ohio and Texas.

To understand America one has to visit places like Iowa, Georgia, and
Lubbock, Texas. Totally different culture from NYC or LA.

Very different and it is those differences that describe who an American is. Mike, you typically write helpful contributions and yet you wrote the above. Very disappointing if you really believe the ignorance you penned.

Appreciate the thoughtful replies. I like the diversity and strong opinions, especially the critical and personal asides. Thank you.

Here's another perspective from Victor Despontin:

Oh yes. I am from western France and there too, we have the same saying. France is not Paris, and Paris is not France.
France built very centralized institutions. If you noticed on a map, all the major roads or railways go through Paris. Up to recently, there was very limited motorways going East to West. Our politicians tend to manage the country from Paris, standardizing, blending, assimilating.
France has a very rich history and various cultures. Many parts of the country used to be autonomous or ruled by leaders that were fiercely independent. Up to the establishment of mandatory school and conscription, different regions were speaking different tongues. French has become the language of the whole country only during the late XIX century, early XX. I come from a region that was said to speak the purest form of French. Farmers had no accent, and spoke the same form of French than the old court. True Parisians have an accent, like Alsatians have one, Flemish, Picards, Gascons or Provencals.
France is not Paris, and Paris is not France.

I think the "real" NYC and the "real" OKC are both the "real" America. I love the diversity of the USA. I love that San Francisco feels like Europe. At the same time, I love to go to realtor.com and see how relatively inexpensive houses are in Edmond, OK. The USA is like the Louvre - there is just too much to see in one visit.

My grand-parents were immigrants from Finland. From the perspective of today's world, I wish they had ridden out whatever storm caused them to leave. But if that had happened, I would never have met my Pennsylvania Dutch husband.

What an unexpectedly heated discussion. As that preeminent European travel author, Ricardo Stephani has said, Iowa, Georgia and Lubbock, Texas are the backdoors to America. Don't care about backdoors, no problem - keep on traveling.

Admittedly, my traveling in the US is pretty scant outside of Calif, either spent the time and money (when I had it) in Europe or doing a short trip in CA.

As a Calif boy, my interests are in seeing the Southern or SW cities and have visited these once or repeatedly: Austin, San Antonio, Memphis, New Orleans, Houston, San Jacinto, Huntsville, TX, Montgomery, AL, Knoxville, Atlanta was too short of a stay, so I don't count that, would definitely go back to DC, Atlanta, and Montgomery, and that northern Va. area, plus seeing for the first time Baton Rouge, not to forget the really captivating place, Quebec City.

Interesting...so by virtue of living in a metropolitan area, we city dwellers apparently have fake culture, no authentic music scene, are a bunch of heathens who don't practice any religions, have values or cherish family life. We know nothing about the history of our cities and our food scenes are clearly the same ole', same ole' because "Cities are cities. You can go to a city anywhere in the world and it's the same."

"Outside the cities is where you experience real culture. Small towns and villages are where you can experience unadulterated traditional music, religion, family life, food, ways of earning a living. People in small towns know their history and they all share it... you need to experience small town life and values."

I particularly enjoyed the Dublin doesn't represent the "Real Ireland". Having many family members who were born, raised and still living in Western Ireland, I've seen first hand (more than once!) some disappointed tourists come through the small village my relatives hail from. They clearly hope to be greeted with a rousing "Top o' the Mornin'!" by a group of ruddy-cheeked, white haired peat farmers wearing tweed scally caps and sweaters knit by their 95 year old "Mam" who will soon stop by to tell them fantastical stories of Leprechauns and fairy folk over a cuppa or a pint. All this occurs just before the locals break out their fiddles and bodhran for a full evening of Trad. Instead they wind up sitting next to a 20-something Irish guy wearing a hoodie who works in biotech and can't be bothered to look up from his iPhone to greet anyone while he drinks. On the Spotify playlist he labels "Trad", he has what he considers older classics - you know, like Justin Timberlake's 'Sexy Back' from 2006.

Well, I have to speak up for small town America. In New England, we have many things that cities don't have, such as town hall direct democracy, white-steepled churches, town greens, country fairs, maple syrup taps, boulders in the middle of the woods left behind by the glaciers, stone walls built and abandoned 200 years ago and much more. That's just as much "real America" as New York City or San Francisco!

They clearly hope to be greeted with a rousing "Top o' the Mornin'!" by a group of ruddy-cheeked, white haired peat farmers wearing tweed scally caps and sweaters knit by their 95 year old "Mam" who will soon stop by to tell them fantastical stories of Leprechauns and fairy folk over a cuppa or a pint. All this occurs just before the locals break out their fiddles and bodhran for a full evening of Trad. Instead they wind up sitting next to a 20-something Irish guy wearing a hoodie who works in biotech and can't be bothered to look up from his iPhone to greet anyone while he drinks. On the Spotify playlist he labels "Trad", he has what he considers older classics - you know, like Justin Timberlake's 'Sexy Back' from 2006.

Ceidleh, you should write a book. Seriously. I love your posts.

I removed some things here and the responses to them. Let's avoid anything that throws swaths of the population under the bus weather it's rural, cosmopolitan, or somewhere in between.

With more of France, England, etc. seeing you are getting closer to real France, England, etc. The more you see, the closer to the real you are. Otherwise you see just one little piece of the country which sometimes could be quite different than the other piece. Is New York city real America? Some Pennsylvanian don't think so. When you drive from NYC west you get quickly through New Jersey, cross the bridge across Delaware river and see the sign: "Pennsylvania welcomes you. America starts here." In some way I agree. New York is a typical American city only because it has skyscrapers everywhere. Otherwise it is an incredible mishmash of third, second and first world. Mom and pap stores almost in every street in downtown, restaurants, cafes etc. like in European city, traffic almost like in third world, honking, pushing, no respect for red lights - at least by pedestrians. I think NYC is the most exciting city I have seen and Seattle and surroundings the most beautiful. At least in America. Is London real England? I don't know: Rick Steves writes: London is a home of 8 million people and some of them speak English. I thought that in real England all of them do despite that real Americans have sometimes hard time to understand real English.

I just want to know where to find the leprechauns. I'm needing a pot o' gold right now.

"Paris is not France" That writer is correct in asserting this. The events of 1871 reveal this...one example among others.

Here's an example from the U.S.:

When I was 17 I drove from San Diego to Cleveland, Ohio (the reason is an even longer story). On the way home my car broke down just outside of Mt. Sterling, Ill. The wheel hub had burned up. I went into town and bought an inner and outer hub and some grease but needed a tool I didn't have (a one inch ratchet) to get the old hub off. I asked at the gas station. He pointed me toward the Auto Body shop. The guy lent me, a total stranger, the tool. I went back to my car but couldn't get the old hub off. It was nearing sunset and I didn't want the guy to think I took off with his tool so I walked back into town to return it.

He drove me back out to my car and brought a torch. Heated the hub, took the old parts off then discovered the parts store had given me two outer hubs. It was Saturday night and everything was closed so he offered to let me stay at his house (he had a 13 day old baby, his first, at home). The next day he called the parts store guy to come into town (on a Sunday) to open the store and get the right part. He helped me put the part on and get my car going.

I asked how much I owed him and he said nothing. Which was amazing for a 17 year old with barely enough gas money to get home.

Now picture this happening in Chicago?

But, Brad, the discussion is about the “realness” of France, or in your post, the USA. With that in mind, is a could-not-care-less experience in Chicago just as real as what you experienced on a middle America road? One is nice and the other may not be but they are both genuinely American.

Brad:

I am an American of non-European, visibly Asian background, and have always lived in big cities in the US. In traveling through rural parts of the Midwest, I have had ignorant and frankly offensive things said straight to my face, whereas I have never experienced that in the large cities I've lived in.

Since I've had a nicer reception in big cities, does this make my experience in "big cities" more American or more real? Clearly not, that would be an absurd conclusion to draw. Yet that's what I'm getting from your post -- somehow a nicer experience for you in small towns makes those places more real or more American.

Although OP was initially about France and England. Sometimes, a thread may awaken memories from an experience right in their own home country.

From what Brad wrote, I perceived he was remembering a time, as a young guy, with little money, who was shown extreme kindness and generosity despite being a stranger. It just happened to be in a smaller town.

He mentioned the host having a new born; which 'today', would be totally taboo inviting a complete stranger into your home. The man trusted Brad and went out of his way to make sure a young guy was taken care of and on his way home. (I don't know how old Brad is, but, in the World as we know it, it's hard to help. Are we putting ourselves in danger? would be a first thought)

Different experiences in small towns or large cities will conjure up good and bad experiences. He mentioned that maybe a person would not or could not receive the same treatment in "Chicago." That may apply to any very large metropolitan city.

There are nice people everywhere - small towns, large cities, large towns. But, with the hustle bustle of larger cities and people going about their lives, as well as the trust factor nowadays, it may be a bit harder to find a generosity anywhere.

Andrew, that is a shame you had such a bad experience with ignorance. Unfortunately, some people have no filter, are clueless and ignorant.

I grew up in a large Italian family. There was a time when people would think it was funny to make jokes about Italians and Sicilians or about stereotyping reputations, etc. about Italian girls. People like that are not worth the dirt under your shoes.

I am so glad I was never brought up that way! Pity those with a closed mind. You'll find ignorance anywhere in this World.

Kindness and courtesy are good, but also, there are times to stand up for yourself, stand your ground, make your point and leave them to hang themselves. There are still nice people in this World.

Thinking...I recall a time when I was going to the Wang Theater with my Mom at Christmastime. We're walking up Tremont Street. All of a sudden, this man who was disheveled and/or maybe homeless, spilled onto the sidewalk from a doorway. He just lay there in his trench coat and jeans. My Mom and I were still some feet away but witnessed it.

What we saw shocked us - A number of people went around him or crossed the street to avoid him. Some were probably just going about their day and others were going to the Wang (as their dress code reflected.)

Was he "out?" Would he suddenly jolt up and try to grab onto someone walking by? That might have been one fear of a few. But still, that did not prevent them from staying their distance and calling for help.

We readied to make a call to 911, but another woman was near us and started dialing. We all looked at each other and shook our heads at the people's behavior.

There was no way to know if the man fell ill, had an attack, perhaps dying, unconscious or just over inebriated. We could not believe the inhumanity and selfishness to call for help for this man.

I am an American of non-European, visibly Asian background, and have
always lived in big cities in the US. In traveling through rural parts
of the Midwest, I have had ignorant and frankly offensive things said
straight to my face, whereas I have never experienced that in the
large cities I've lived in.

Since I've had a nicer reception in big cities, does this make my
experience in "big cities" more American or more real? Clearly not,
that would be an absurd conclusion to draw. Yet that's what I'm
getting from your post -- somehow a nicer experience for you in small
towns makes those places more real or more American.

Well said, Andrew!

"Real" are the places that you land that tug at your heart. Whether they be cities, towns, villages or picture perfect spots with a rainbow.

Hi Brad. You’re right, this Chicagoan wouldn’t be able to help you with your car because I know absolutely nothing about them. You may as well ask me to find the cube root of pi.

But, this Chicagoan works next to the Sears Tower and has given endless directions to tourists. I’ve also helped plenty of tourists get home from Cubs games. I don’t think I’m unique among Chicagoans either.

I don't think "real" necessarily means "good". There are good and bad people everywhere. Emma used the term "authentic" in another post, and I think that's a better word in this context. I'd like to think that everyone in rural, midwest America is kind, welcoming and generous, but I know better.

Webster's definition of "pundit": a person who gives opinions in an authoritative manner usually through the mass media : critic.

So your pundit claims "Paris is the heart of France, but the countryside is the soul". But this week, the pundits are all calling Notre Dame Cathedral, located in Paris, "the soul of France" - as in the entire country - not just Paris.

I say I don't waste my time waiting for some pundit to tell me what I should think about who (or what) is "real" or "the heart" or "the soul". Both my salt-of-the-earth, small village living Irish relatives and the soul-less heathens I descended from that got on the boat and chose to immigrate to big city Boston would tell you the exact same thing: "Opinions are like arse holes, everyone's got one."

I suspect people who feel cities are "not real" have many of their views and opinions formed entirely by what they see in a very short amount of time as a tourist afraid to stray outside of the guidebook recommends, or a business person just passing through who doesn't like to explore more than 3 blocks from their hotel and ends up eating at a Cheesecake Factory or Applebee's because they recognize the name. I have seen it in my city - they think they "know" Boston because they walked the Freedom Trail, drank a beer at "Cheers", shopped on Newbury Street and stood in a very long line for a mediocre cannoli in the North End. If that's all I knew about Boston, I'd think it was overpriced, generic and soul-less, too.

"...welcoming and generous but I know better." Andrew's experience calls into question that "welcoming and generous" notion.

Re: "...straight. offensive things said straight to my face...." I wonder if this also happened in Germany or France.

Fred - that's what I meant. There are hateful, mean-spirited people in those small towns too.

No disagreement with your meaning, Stan in what you wanted to say. That was the way I understood your comment.

Now, relative to traveling in Europe, did Andrew come across any of that in France, Germany, etc what he had experienced in the Midwest?

London and Paris are very real England and France, respectively. Any big city is going to be more subject to international influences, and those become part of the culture. That said, too many visitors to these countries only go to those cities and they miss out on a lot.