The Great Debate: Italy vs. France

Get back to me next year after I do a thorough review. France has Roland Garros though.

Why would you pick? I love them both. Different cultures, different cuisines, ..... Go to both & get out of the capitals...

Having not visited anyplace in France other than Paris, it wouldn't be fair for me to compare. But I cannot imagine any country replacing Italy in my heart. When I am there, particularly in smaller towns, I experience a physical sense of belonging. It is where my people came from, but it is more than that, something that cannot be described. I am sure France is wonderful, but, for me, Italy stands alone.

"..... have a storied history, rich food culture, jaw-dropping art, and are home to charming villages...."

That's how I describe Spain

This is such a hard question. It's like asking someone which of their children they love more.
If I had a gun to my head and was forced to choose, I'd pick Italy 50.1 percent of the time and France 49.9 percent of the time: it's that close. I'd give Italy the slightest edge because of Venice: there is no other city in the world like it, nor that can match it for absolute beauty. I also found the Cinque Terre marginally more appealing than Nice and the Cote d'Azur. I'm an art, wine, history and architecture fan, and as you aptly point out, both countries excel in all those categories, though I enjoy French wines, cheese, and food more. Both have stunning Roman ruins, great people, gorgeous mountain views and pristine beaches/coastlines.

^As Blue says above, if you can't pick between Italy and France... choose Spain lol! 😉

My heart automatically went France. But I can't come up with a compelling argument for one over the other. I just felt more at home wherever I went in France. Maybe it's because I'm pretty tightly wound and can get frustrated by the laid back attitudes in southern Italy that was a bit too relaxed for me. Maybe the formalities in France are more my style. I'm not sure what I'm writing makes sense to anyone but me, but it makes sense in my head. Not that I won't be visiting both many times in the future.

My answer part 2.

As a Canadian, my history is closely tied to England and France. So while I find Roman history and ruins fascinating, I find the close historical ties between France and Canada far more relevant and interesting.

I enjoy French wines, cheese, and food more

John Adams mentions French cheese, and I recall a joke from some Italians that they send their expired, moldy cheese to France.

If I could only choose between France and Italy - both of which I love and have visited fairly extensively but will never see all of either, there isn't enough time - I would choose Germany.

or more extensive visits in England, Wales and Scotland, especially far north Scotland and the Isles.

I'm loving all of these answers, thank you all for sharing! Thank goodness in real life we don't have to make a choice between the two :) The only part of France I've seen so far is Paris, but I'm hoping to explore enough that I can come back with some impassioned points. Although it's sounding like I'll need to throw Spain into the mix as well...

Impossible to choose. I am truly privileged to have connections with both cultures — I have lived in Paris for 15 years now, and my husband is Italian. There are so many regions in BOTH countries that are so rich for exploring and so varied. If only I could have the time and money to explore!

Italy. Three great cities of the world: Venice, Florence and Rome. No bad choice here. You've already done Paris.

Italy-hands down-Renaissance churches and art, Roman ruins, and I prefer Italian food.

It's the warmth of the Italian people.

I have asked others this question many times and have come to this conclusion for me…..I am a Francophile……and I think I would choose France over Italy any day because of their deliberate style and charm and artistry in EVERYTHING THEY DO…….my husband and I have loved following the chateau restoration vlogs on TV and YouTube and have noticed this……when the French design even a door hinge, it will be exquisitely artistic…….even down to the door knobs and window sashes……their woodworking, plastering, gardens, food, clothing…..it’s everywhere…….it seems they do not do anything unless it is is designed with the greatest artistic flair in mind. I am an artist and it is a joy to see such effort put into anything they touch. Another convincer for me was discovering THE MOST BEAUTIFUL VILLAGES OF FRANCE association…….where these charming tiny villages that would go unnoticed elsewhere have been designated with this honor and these small towns all meet the challenge…….they look like picture postcards! While I do love Italy and it’s charm the French seem to have gone overboard to highlight and preserve the past and keep its charm alive. Paris stands out as a city to me that has captured how to love its past and history without compromising this as they move into the future.

After two 2-week trips to each, I'd have to say Italy, although I loved both.

I'd been to Italy 3 times, including an extended stay in Tuscany, a trip to Sicily, and a long tour of Italy (Dolomites, Lakes, VFR, Amalfi Coast, Naples, Sorrento, and Capri). I'd only been to France once. As much as I love Italy when it came time to do a long (2 month) retirement trip, it was France that was calling to me. Now having been to both for multiple trips, a couple of months in each, I'd say France - hands down! Can't explain it logically but, hey it is what it is. Some are drawn to one, some to the other.

Fun question. Both are wonderful and Paris is architecturally stunning and as others have mentioned, France is so pleasing to the eye all around. Even the paint peels from farmhouses in a charming manner. But, I’d have to pick Italy. The people just seem warmer and friendlier. Rome definitely feels less polished than Paris but is a large city that I instantly felt at home in. One of the friendliest big cities I’ve ever been to. Is actually say Rome and New York are the two friendliest big cities I’ve been to.

If you want to see Roman ruins, go to France and it's hard to get a bad meal in Italy. Hope that helps! I'd rather live in France but as a tourist it's a toss up. Of the three trips to Europe I've made, each time we visited both countries.

France but my grandfather was from France and I speak French (though poorly). For me, always more to explore there.

Although it's sounding like I'll need to throw Spain into the mix as well...

Having been born in Spain and growing up there I've been traveling to nearby France and Italy often, I would say that what makes Spain unique from these two other countries is Spain's sheer amount of diversity, both culturally and bio-diverse as well. From sandy deserts of Almería, to pristine Alpine lakes of Aragon, to lush rainforests of Canary Islands, to emerald green pastures of Galicia, and turquoise blue waters of Catalonia.

And that's just the climates, culturally you can think of Spain as a country made up of many nations, each with their distinct languages, foods, and history, the special blend of different peoples, from Iberians, Celts, Greeks, Phoenicians, Romans, Basques, Germans, Moors makes for a truly diverse and potent cocktail. As they say "Spain is different" 😉

Regarding food, the culinary region with the most Michelin stars per capita in the world is not in France or even Italy, but actually in Spain, in the Basque Country. To be honest, French food is really overhyped and a tad boring, they've been resting on their laurels since the 1960s, while other more innovative countries like Japan or Spain have not only caught up to them but surpassed them.

For me, it is France by a long shot. I have been to France at least 20 times and to Italy 8 times. During 3 of my trips to Italy (once in Milan, once in Venice, and once in Rome), I had extremely unpleasant experiences of the type that have never happened to me in France. I and my family prefer Italian food to French food and my husband loves Tuscan red wines so it is a shame for us that we have some issues with Italy or maybe I should say that some Italians have issues with us. On the other hand, France is just amazing and I personally prefer the slightly more formal French approach.

I disagree with JHK. I have been to both France and Italy several time and I have always had lovely experiences with the Italians - in restaurants and simply in everyday encounters. Can't say that about the French. In Italy I have never had a local restaurant serve a bad wine when asking for "Vino della Casa". In France the same approach will often get you the plonk they cannot sell to a local. Same for the food. I think the French are generally more calculating in their dealings with tourists. A Italian restaurateur is constitutionally unable to serve a bad meal or a bad wine.

Different people can have vastly different experiences in the same country. We all bring prejudices and pre-conceived ideas about a country or it's people (both positive and negative) when we travel. Sometimes we are happily proven wrong about our negative assumptions and sometimes unfortunately we run into people that reinforce those negative ideas about a country or about their people. And the same goes for positive feelings. What one of us loves about a country someone else might dislike about it and vice versa. But in the end that's a good thing. If we all loved the same country just think how crowded it would be, even worse than it is now.

I’ve been to both several times and would normally have said Italy immediately. But my last trip before Covid was to some of the smaller towns in France and others not so much on the American tourist list. Those towns gave me that same warm inviting feeling to explore and savor the small special moments that I’ve enjoyed so much in Italy. So it’s almost a coin toss. The slight edge is that I love authentic Italian food more than the French food, but i love the French breakfast!

And yes, we love Spain, too!

As Nancy comments above, different people can have different experiences. My experience is based on a couple of months traveling in each country. Several similar bad experiences in France. Also lots of really nice people and experiences in France but it seems like the the bad experiences leave a larger impression.. In Italy, so far, no bad experiences. Perhaps it is just luck but that's what I have seen.

"A Italian restaurateur is constitutionally unable to serve a bad meal or a bad wine." That's funny. I wish I knew that rule when I was in Venice in 2017.

Italy. France is full of the French 😉. However neither have a patch on Spain, just the food surpasses that of Italian and is an entire league over French food which is highly overrated.

I would be thrilled to go to either, any time.

But if I had my choice…8 times out of 10 it would be Italy. Reasons: History, Food, People.

History - all countries have history, of course, but I love the ancient Roman and Greek stuff which is obviously more prevalent in Italy. Yes, Greek too - some of the Greek temples/sights in Sicily are easily comparable to in Greece. Plus I love the multi-cultural aspect of Sicily, Palermo area especially.

Food - I just prefer Italian food, just personal preference. Also I love the coffee bar tradition - stand at the bar and cheap, quick, good espresso pretty much on every corner in every town. I find a lot of French food too fussy, but of course a lot of it is excellent too.

People - Italians are just overall more welcoming and openly friendly. Especially to children, which I have. Speaking in cliches which have some truth - There’s more formality in France and Italy can be chaotic. I’ll take chaos, it’s fun!

Language- I speak very basic Spanish and can mangle my way through really, really bad Italian just with Spanish and a translator app. I’m hopeless at French. I can read a little but my pronunciation is laughable. Knowing the language is not required for a good trip, beyond the basic words, but it helps enrich it.

Italy. We have visited more areas in Italy so have experienced the country more fully. France and Spain come close second and third. Viva la difference on the foods of each country. I’ve had good and bad food in each country. I try to eat regional specialties in each country. Everyone needs to see the big art, architecture and ruins. After much European travel we equally like hanging out in the parks and cafes and the evening strolls with locals.

"..... have a storied history, rich food culture, jaw-dropping art,
and are home to charming villages...."

That's how I describe Spain

I agree. It is also a good way to describe Portugal, Greece, Denmark, Germany and many other countries.

Yes, Badger...and I would certainly include Sweden on that list.
However, I read the original question as asking for assistance in deciding between Italy and France.
I stand by my remark regarding Spain, but I also believe in doing so, I have managed to cloud the issue, somewhat.

Great topic. It's so interesting to hear different perspectives. No matter the country, Europe, in general, has so much to offer. And nice to hear such civility given that this is purely a matter of opinion.

As someone who is just starting to Travel I took two back-to-back RS tours just before the virus hit.

Venice-Florence-Rome and then Best of Paris.

I would have to say, based on my very limited experience, that Italy is much more friendly to people who don't speak the language. And more friendly in general, though perhaps there is some reserve in France/Paris I never got through while there.

I don't think I'll go back to Paris/France until (and if) I speak more of the language. With Italy I have no concerns.

though perhaps there is some reserve in France/Paris I never got
through while there.

We did the Loire to the South of France tour in 2019 and our guide did a very good job explaining the French reserve and the myth of rudeness. Paris isn't the place to judge the entire country as it is likely a bit more reserved, but it was amazing how a few simple phrases broke the barriers; such as knowing how to ask for a table at a restaurant.

I'm enjoying this topic.

France, by all means. France just speaks to me. I prefer the culture, the history, the taste and the physical beauty of the country. People have always been charming to me.

I do believe everyone should go to Italy at least once. I am heading there for my 3rd time so my husband can see it for his first. The language is much easier than French. The food is familiar and if you like the manners of NY deli people, it is fun (That is not an insult.) I love Italian Renaissance art...and, OMG, Bernini.

Nonetheless, France surpasses Italy in my mind and heart.

Difficult choice if one has to pick one over the other. And a more important question is "Where in Italy," and "Where in France." Been to Italy 4 times; Rome, Venice, Milan, Sorrento, Florence, Verona, Siena, CT, Prato, Capri, Amalfi, Lucia, Ravenna, and some other places. Been to France twice; Paris, Lyon, Aix, Nimes, Tours and some others. We love Italy, but the chaos of Italy, is exhausting now for us, both in our 60's. This is all my opinion and subject to our personal encounters and happenings, and there are some broad strokes being brushed here. France is a much more "Get it fixed, and maintain it" and follow the rules, sort of culture than Italy. Italy has more of a "Good Enough - this will do and get by," culture. We went to many museums in each, some being rather small focused museums. In Italy we quickly got the feeling that we were not even welcome in some of these museums. Like we were interrupting someone's day. In France, it was very much the opposite: An entirely different attitude. The French seemed eager to add, accommodate, point things out, and embellish far more about the site/museums we were at. And we had to turn down a few offerings, of special tours, offered at no extra cost, turned down a few due to our time constraints. The French enthusiastically WANT you to know about their history. Also, everything works in France. Their trains work, ATMs work, the boats and the buses work. In Italy, its something of a crap shoot that anything is working, hasn't caught fire, isn't maintained, just now failed, or someone didn't show up for their shift. And there is a direct North to South relationship in Italy on this. In France, it was a more uniform, cross country higher level of standards. :)

I was away from my computer for a bit, but I’m thrilled catching up on everyone’s takes! The feeling when a place just grabs you and feels right, down to your very marrow, is one of life’s loveliest mysteries.

I agree that language can play a complement in considering the two! I can scrape by in Italian, and I think the enjoyable (elementary) convos and knowledge that I can make make myself understood make me unfairly biased towards Italy. From a traveling confidence standpoint, my lack of French and the potential discomfort/confusion it could cause makes me feel more shy I suppose.

I've often said I prefer Rome over Paris, but I prefer France outside of Paris over Italy outside of Rome.

After reminiscing further about our travels, I can honestly say the first is still true for me. I absolutely love Rome. It may be my favourite place on earth. But I don't care if my travels don't take me back to Paris.

The second part... I'm wavering on. We had a completely perfect trip to the southern half of France (Lyon-Alps-Riviera-Provence-Dordogne). Completely perfect - but a long time ago (2011). We also made it to Alsace in 2018. But now I remember more fondly more recent times in Italy. I think France outside of Paris might just edge it for me. But I need a few more trips to both countries to be sure.

I think what made the France outside of Paris trip the best was a combination of factors: perfect weather, ease of traveling around the area, lack of crowds, variety of landscapes, activities, and sights. Yet I've been to Italy more times than France! And I dream about Italy more than I do France these days.

How can you go wrong with either?!

For me - Italy - but strictly because of Venice - I adore Venice, so much I keep trying to figure out ways to go back (5 times since 2008). Italy was the first country we went to when we did our first overseas trip. I imagine had I never been to Venice, then I'd say France - I loved Provence (esp when we went to see the lavender) and Cote D'Azur, but if someone told me I could only ever go back to one, Italy.

And just want to add - I'm a big fan of pasta and pizza, so, for food - Italy as well.

Now that question with a twist - Which salad dressing, Italian or French? Maybe neither?

One year it's France
the next years it's Italy
:)

"Food in Italy seems to be the same thing alllll theeeee timmmmmeee--pasta or pizza, pizza or pasta, bread, gelato."

Strange.

Have you seen "I'll having what Phil's having" for the Italian cities he does? Anthony Bourdain's shows on the Italian cities he covers? Others.

I still kick myself when I realized I was on the Island of Burono (sp?) next to Venice (my first RS tour) and didn't try the Famous Risotto at that restaurant there.

I've been taking notes and maybe a second run through RS's Venice-Florence-Rome tour. This time it won't be so overwhelming. And I know more about the Cities.

I do agree with others that the food in Spain (OK, I was in Barcelona) is awesome. I see no green on the satellite views, nor did I on a flight into Madrid once.

You would be surprised then lol! As Spain and France both have the same amount of forested percentage, 36.7%. Spain even has more forested area km and percentage than Germany, Italy, and UK.

Where are these Spanish forests you may ask? Where most foreign tourists don't go! The area extending from northern Portugal, the Galician Massif, Cantabrian Mountains and the western and central Pyrenees. Characterized by a humid climate which is moderated by the influence of the ocean, with somewhat cold winters and the lack of a distinct dry season. Plenty of more pine forests across Catalonia, Serrania de Cuenca, Andalucian highlands, and great oak forests of Extremadura.

In Catalonia, for example, a very popular family pastime we have is mushroom hunting in our ancient forests. My grandma made the best Canelones, stuffed pasta with wild mushrooms and creamy béchamel sauce.

In Catalonia, for example, a very popular family pastime we have is mushroom hunting in our ancient forests. My grandma made the best Canelones, stuffed pasta with wild mushrooms and creamy béchamel sauce.

Sounds fantastic! I'm currently enjoying the sun in Estepona and enjoyed a lovely 45 day aged Galician beef sirloin (Galician beef is up there amongst the best) at one of my favourite restaurants whilst today I was treated to some Iberico secreto. The UK produces some of the best pork in the world but a good piece of Iberico secreto cannot be beaten particularly when accompanied by a very garlicky chimichurri sauce.

You are making my mouth water JC lol! The "secret" to Iberico secreto pork is allowing the pigs to have a wonderful life, free roaming amongst great oak forests (typically in Extremadura) while feasting on acorns. Buen provecho 😃

Definitely prefer France here! I've spent several trips in both countries, and seen about 5 areas each. So I feel like I have a good handle on both. But I prefer French food, art and style of living. (I think Italy does win on the historical side of things) But Italy stresses me out! I don't love the craziness and had several experiences that made me feel like a lot (not all) of people were trying to squeeze as much money as possible out of you. In general, the French are more formal, but we had locals going out of their way to help us. And to be honest I'd loooove to visit both as much as possible!

Ditto ---- Stan, Cala, Janet, Barbara, Robbie JC, Mira, Nicole, (plus a couple I probably missed.) I have said many times, "I could give up all food groups except Italian." The table, everyday wine is terrific, the cheeses, the breads, the grapes, olives. Across the board I think the red wines are better. No comment on white since I am not a big fan of white. There is a casualness to Italian dining that I just don't find anywhere else in the world. I like Spain also but do get tired of pork, pork, and more pork.

^As Blue says above, if you can't pick between Italy and France... choose Spain lol! 😉

All you Spain lovers failed to mention one thing: Spain is very budget friendly compared to Italy and France.

Frank, you will be surprised to hear then that in Spain we consume the most fish per capita, only second to Japan. Madrid, right in the centre of the country, also has the 4th largest fish market in the world!

While pork is certainly one of the staples of our cuisine (like all that beef in USA) we also have numerous seafoods that counter balances this, look to Basque, Galician, Catalan, and Valencian regional cuisines. In Catalonia we have a wonderful traditional fish stew called 'Suquet de Peix' in Catalan, thickened with fresh almond paste, prefect on a cold winter's day on the Costa Brava. Much better than those overpriced Bouillabaisse on the French Rivera lol! 😀

Italy for me but I'm a bit biased as I lived there for about 15 years. My family is French Canadian and we've traced our name back to Burgundy so France has a special place in my heart but I've only visited Paris, Strasbourg and the Cote d'Azure, all of which I loved. However there's something special about Italy that I've never found anywhere else. The food there, for me, is the best in the world as is the vino. Greece is the only other European country that can match its ancient history. There really are no countries in Europe I haven't loved (well, maybe Kosovo but I was living in a tent and carrying an M203 there so that doesn't count!) but Italy has always been my favorite.

Much better than those overpriced Bouillabaisse on the French Rivera lol! 😀

Couldn't agree more. When in Nice and the wider area it didn't matter which French restaurant you went in the menu was almost identical, Bouillabaisse, Daube de Bouef, Ratatouille etc. I'm afraid the French are very stuck up about their food, wrongly believing it to be superior to other cuisines and unwilling to infuse, adopt and experiement with other cuisines. It's led to a stagnation in the evolution of the cuisine.

Whilst the Spanish enjoy their pork, and rightly so when it comes to the well bred and fed pigs, I can easily spend a week and more without a piece of pork passing my lips (not that I'd want to). Fish and seafood is typically exceptional, lamb and goat feature a lot plus there's the wonderful beef from the northern pastures, rabbit, chicken (less so) and myriad of vegetable, rice and pasta dishes.

I think Italy leads on the wine front (red) but Spain easily holds its own. There can be some wonderful French wines to be had but sadly much is hidden amongst swathes of mediocre wine.