The current Euro-US doller exchange rate and pre-ordering currency

Is it financially rational for me to order all the Euros I think I
will need from my bank

No, it's not rational to carry large amounts of cash, as is believing you'll be attacked or robbed at an Italian ATM with no evidence of some heightened risk. You should take a breather and relax. ATMs work all over the world, there is no need to stress over being able to get money out. You must know what Rick's tips are by now, right? He always says to use an ATM..on top of that, make sure you have a debit card that doesn't charge high fees for withdrawals, and a credit card that has no foreign exchange fees (like Capital One, etc.). Good luck! If you've already visited foreign countries before, then expect this trip to be similar - no reason to worry prematurely about nuts-and-bolts type things like getting money out of an ATM.

I would pay for things in whatever manner is the most cost effective - if you get cash discounts for something, pay with cash. If not, use a credit card - it's easier to keep an electronic trail of your expenses that way.

I travel solo and prefer to arrive with some local currency in hand, not so much that I fear being robbed at an ATM, though do I fear my card not working or being sucked in--thus I only use ATMs that are part of a bank and only during bank hours. I have 2 credit cards as back-up, though a cash advance is costly. This year I had a reason for ordering more cash than usual--my debit card was hacked, and Chase caught the fraud and immediately cancelled my card and sent me another. My paranoid thinking kicked in--what if I was in Europe when this happened and suddenly had no access to cash? It wouldn't hurt if you ordered 300 euros in advance, then you can scout out an ATM that you feel comfortable with once you're there.

Supposed I get attacked or robbed at an ATM machine in Italy?

If such a thing happens, think of the consequences if you were walking around with a load of cash?
I still cannot figure out the aversion people have to using an ATM card in Europe, when people use them all the time here, and you're much more likely to get mugged here than in Europe. PNC has already told you that they consider you a sucker when they quoted 1.16 and you know the exchange rate 1.093. Use the ATM card in Europe. I'm sure PNC, as what Clark Howard calls a "monster mega-bank", charges you 3 % foreign currency conversion fees plus "out-of-network" fees. Just open a bank account at a credit union that will charge at most 1 % and no "out-of-network' fees and be done with it.

That is a high rate since the currency exchange today was 1.087. What you do depends on what your bank charges every time you use an ATM and if you'll pay more in fees than what you lose in the exchange. I can tell you what I do: use an ATM are that charges no fee for withdrawal and exchanges close to the published rate. I have an Andrews Federal Credit Union account and cards but there are others.

I have recently spent almost $2,000 using my Andrews Visa card and the exchange rate was about the same as the XE rate posted for that day.

As for what happened to Christa, it did happen to us: bank hacked, card cancelled​ while we were in Europe. We did have a second account and cards from a second bank.

Just open a bank account at a credit union that will charge at most 1
% and no "out-of-network' fees and be done with it.

That's sound advice. I have a credit union debit card too and get charged 1% of each withdrawal (with no other flat fees). Ordering Euros will cost you a premium, pure and simple.

I'm taking my 14th Rick Steves tour and I've done a number of my own since 2000 and I have never converted USD to foreign currency in the US. I've always used ATM's on my trips and never had a problem. I just find a bank owned ATM at the airport - never use one that is not owned by a bank. I also bank at PNC but because of their exchange rate policies, charging about 3% + a fee on ATM transactions and 2.7% on their credit cards, I opened a checking account and got my credit cards through CapitalOne. They charge no fees for the account or card and no fees on foreign transactions. Banks such as PNC claim they don't make a profit on providing you with foreign currency because they can set the exchange rate at whatever they want. Unless I'm at a small hotel that is family owned, I'll pay with a credit card. Realize also that American Express is NOT universally accepted in Europe but Visa and MasterCard are.

Hi,

What you quote above sounds about right. Bank of America told me about 6-7 months ago if I order at least one thousand US dollars to be converted into Euro, there would be no fee, the exchange rate given by the BofA was 1,16 or a bit more. That one grand had to be taken from your savings or checking account with BofA, taking the amount from your credit card as a cash advance (even you dismiss the financial charges) was not accepted. So, I took out $1,000 from the checking account.

In Germany and Austria the HI hostels take US credit cards, as well as the private independent hostels. I've paid in cash and with a credit card at hostels, depending on the whim of the moment.

You ought to stop "supposing"...this isn't Oakland. In Europe I never supposed that I was going get mugged, get jumped American style, I'm won't bet on it. I always carry Euro on me, from one hundred to six hundred but "they" don't know that.

...each Euro would cost me 1.16 US dollars; the teller told me that this is the exchange rate and the bank wouldn't be charging a fee or making a profit on my ordering Euros from them......

That is a huge pile of BS. Of course, they are making money - about 7%. They don't have to charge you a fee since they have jacked up the exchange rate. The cheapest and most convenient way to obtain local currency is ALWAYS a debit card at a bank owned ATM in Europe. End discussion.

I suspect the $1.09 you see online the large scale bank rate not the retail rate for buying dinner in Rome.

Of course there is going to be a spread in what the "bank rate" is and what the retail customer pays, otherwise the bank goes out of business if it makes no money.

Has it been documented that the exchange rate at the foreign ATM is at the "official" ( online) rate? I have never used an ATM overseas, so have no firsthand knowledge.

Perhaps those who have used the ATM can look at their bank statement and advise what rate they actually got on their transactions? I would be surprised if it was the same as what one sees when they do an online search for "exchange rates"

Anyone in banking out there that can shed light on the subject?

I shop around my local banks for the best rate and bring some cash with me. I do not trust myself to be fully alert after a 10-12 hour flight to hunt down and use an ATM at the airport

The 1-3% service fee ( zero for some cards) is a separate issue from the exchange rate itself

Perhaps those who have used the ATM can look at their bank statement and advise what rate they actually got on their transactions? I would be surprised if it was the same as what one sees when they do an online search for "exchange rates"

I did exactly that from a trip to Italy and Netherlands in January. I looked at exchange rate data from finance.yahoo, which has minute-by-minute data for any given day. Currencies do fluctuate up to +/- 0.5% in the course of a normal day. In all cases, the exchange rate on my bank statement was within the trading band for that day. Then the interchange fees of about 1% were added on and that is what I paid.

In the last 24 hours, the EUR-USD rate has varied from 1.0865 to 1.0935

Hi,

Keep in mind that with the 1.16 rate offered by the bank, if you decide to take out, say $800 or so, (if you can't bring yourself to withdraw one thousand), you will be charged the fee as well as the 1.16 rate.

I talked to a them in person today - they said I can order Euros from them: *each Euro would cost me 1.16 US dollars*; the teller told me that this is the exchange rate and the bank wouldn't be charging a fee or making a profit on my ordering Euros from them.

If today is 12 May 2017, Oanda reports that 1.00 Euros to $1.08703 USD at a 0% mark-up over Interbank Rate. My credit union charges me 1% over Interbank on foreign ATM withdraws which would be about $1.098 USD per 1.00 EUR. Your bank is marking up their exchange to a premium in excess of 6% over Interbank.

Rick Steves cash and currency tip: https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/money/cash-tips

Don’t buy foreign currency in advance. Some tourists just have to have euros or pounds in their pockets when they step off the airplane,
but smart travelers don’t bother and know better than to get lousy
stateside exchange rates. Wait until you arrive at your destination;
I’ve never been to an airport in Europe that didn’t have plenty of
ATMs.

But the above said, some folks like the comfort of a couple hundred Euros in pocket on landing in a strange land and are willing to pay the premium for that comfort.

I have only visited two foreign countries - Canada and England. On my way to England, I exchanged US dollars for pounds at Detroit Metro Airport - I was dismayed by the fee. In Canada, I exchanged US dollars for Canadian dollars at a currency exchange place; I had to stand in line with other people doing what I did. This trip to Italy will not be like my last two trips - I am planning it better.

I need to ask PNC bank, for every Euro I take out of my account in Italy, how many US dollars will get subtracted from my account? Then I need to ask the same question at a local credit union. The teller at PNC seemed to think that the fees for me would be higher if I used an ATM in another country than if I ordered Euros in advance. Right now I have an ATM card from PNC, a VISA credit card issued by PNC, and a VISA credit card issued by a grocery store. If I use any ATM not owned by PNC, I get charged a fee; I would assume this applies anywhere in the world, not just in the USA. Last time I checked, the fee might have been $3 or $5 per transaction.

Unless it is "happy hour" five dollars won't get you a beer in SF. Even at "happy hour" don't bet on it.

Thank you Sam for your reply, regarding your real world experience. I suspect I am not the only one to benefit from your response.

In the future I will take less cash with me, but will have some. I suppose its just the way I am wired--- I do not like the idea of my 1st task is to find an ATM, after umpteen hours in a small metal tube.

Mike, think of it this way. In Europe, all the ATMs will be chock full of Euros, (or Francs, or Pounds, or Koruna depending on the country). Trucks come by and restock them when they run low. In the US, they are few and and far between, sitting in bank vaults earning nothing on the off chance that someone will come by and want to buy them. So you are in effect, paying a premium here to buy a scarce commodity, then flying 8 hours across an ocean to a place where that commodity is extremely plentiful.

Joe, after 8 hours in a metal tube, I look for a bathroom, then often I spot the ATM while waiting for the luggage to come off the carousel, or walking to my connecting flight.

just assuming I will find a bancomat machine in Italy?
My credit union's daily w/d limit is something like $500 USD. The VCE airport ATM's limit was 200 EUR (it refused my 300 EUR w/d request). Find out your debit/ATM account's daily limit and if the cash machine refuses your request, try a smaller amount.

When I arrive at my hostels, should I pay in cash or give them a credit card?
Find out the foreign transaction terms and conditions (cost) of your credit card and your debit/ATM cash card. Use the one that gives you the most favorable cost assuming that you have a choice of credit card.

Suppose the bankomat machines (automatic teller machines) in italy don't work for me?
Hope you notified your "bank" about upcoming foreign travel. Try a second machine if it doesn't work. Ideally have a back up ATM/debit account/card. If all fails, use the couple of hundred in USD that Rick Steves suggest and find a FX kiosk then use your credit card to the maximum extent possible. Call your bank with the collect call number and fix the card.

Supposed I get attacked or robbed at an ATM machine in Italy?
Suppose that a terrorist runs you over with a big truck.

All advice here is sound. I withdrew euro yesterday at a Bancomat and the upcharge was 1%.

While the mantra by the many wise posters is that a debit/ATM card issued by a local credit union is economical, my credit union charges a 3% foreign transaction fee. Same for my local bank and it's ATM card. Perhaps this is just a regional anomaly. Not all local credit unions and banks are international travel friendly.

You don't have to have a local credit union. I also use Andrews Federal Credit Union and they are domiciled 800 miles away.

Perhaps this is just a regional anomaly. Not all local credit unions
and banks are international travel friendly.

Mike should have a lot more choice in large city like Detroit than a small town in Montana (same if true for getting competitive flight fares and everything else). In general, credit unions are by definition not profit making entities - that's why they don't need to charge people outlandish rates. I'd have a hard time sticking with a credit union that charges 3% in fees when there is so much competition out there. And, as was said before, the credit union doesn't need to be local. You can apply for anything online these days - no physical presence is needed. My credit union is based in Southern California.

Mike, you can search a good comparison site like www.bankrate.com for credit cards and debit cards based on a variety of criteria, including foreign transaction fees. I would not count on what a bank teller tells you without seeing the actual numbers - they are in the business of pushing profits for the bank, not helping you save money. It seems that you may not know what a daily "interbank rate" is vs. the bank fees that are laid on top. Figuring out the profit over the interbank rate is very straightforward. Read up, or you can get taken to the cleaners.

Do whatever makes you feel comfortable. My wife just purchased a fairly large stash of Euros from her bank. We know we'll have some upfront cash hotel payments and other expected cash expenses, so she likes having plenty to cover the beginning of the trip. Really, in the context of what you spend on an overseas trip, the extra cost of pre-purchasing the Euros is piddling. We used ATMs in Paris a couple of years ago to replenish our initial supply, had no issues whatever, and we expect to do the same in Italy shortly. No scarier than the ATM at your corner drive-through. Just had to do a mental conversion to ask for fewer Euros than my dollar withdrawal limit. Nothing to it.

Mike,
Generally speaking the least expensive way of getting local currency is from an ATM at your destination. And by using the same precautions one would use at home the possibility of being robbed at the ATM is pretty small.

Having said that, however, it's always a good idea, in my opinion, to have some local currency in hand when you land. Getting a couple (but not more than three) hundred Euros from your local bank will cost you a little more, but it eliminates the hassle of trying to find a machine, the stress of hoping it works (they do occasionally malfunction), and doing it all while somewhat jet lagged. To me the small amount extra it cost to have money in hand when arriving is money well spent to be able to hit the ground running so to speak. And the cost relative to the overall cost of the trip is not, in my opinion, that much. Just one point of view.

Regardless of what you decide I'm sure you'll have a great trip. Italy is a wonderful place.

From what I've found, the US bank with the lowest cost to get euro over here is Wells Fargo (not PNC) at an average of 5% over the Interbank rate. I can get euro at an ATM in Europe for 1% over the Interbank rate from my credit union. One percent, by the way, is what the Network (Cirrus, Plus, MC, and Visa) charge your bank for exchanging currency and handling the transaction over there, so the credit union is giving me my own money with no profit for them as a service to a customers.

the extra cost of pre-purchasing the Euros is piddling

PNC charges $1.16/€ and I can get euro from an ATM over there from my credit union at $1.10 /€. That's 5½% more. Why spend 5½% more for you trip when it is so easy to find an ATM and save. It's like throwing away your money.

And, BTW, I am not too concerned about carrying large sums of local currency. You're not likely to get robbed over there, where someone demands all of your money but doesn't take you ATM card. More likely you'll get pick pocketed, and, if like most people, you keep your ATM card in the same place as your cash, Losing a few thousand dollars is nothing compared to the problem you'll have due to not having your ATM card and not being able to get ANY money.

There is a credit union that has a branch a mile from me that is for anybody in the lower peninsula, and a credit unions that has a branch in a grocery store just under 3 miles from me. Both say their foreign transaction fee is one percent. Both say they don't know exactly how many US dollars each euro would cost me if I take open an account with them and take euros out of my account, because they don't know the fee the bank in Italy would charge. Michigan First credit union, the one with the branch in the grocery store, has a 24 hour phone answering place but they barely know anything about what I was asking; dfcu financial has limited hours and doesn't answer the phone when their branches are closed, but the rep was less pissed at me trying to ask questions she didn't quite know/ was willing to look up fees if I wanted.

PNC would charge me a 3% fee using my debt card - using a bancomat in Italy, each euro would cost the exchange rate + 3%, or right now for each euro, PNC would charge me 1.123 US dollars. PNC charges $5 for each foreign ATM transaction but my account would reimburse me for the first two transations in a billing cycle. (They charge $3 per transaction in the USA at non-PNC ATMs but my account would reimburse me for the first two transactions in a billing cycle; they also suggested that non-PNC ATMs in the USA would probably charge an additional approximately $2.95 per transaction).

So PNC would charge me about 24 more US dollars to take 800 Euros out of my account at a bancomat than the credit Union. pre-ordering 800 euros from PNC would cost $128 more US dollars than the credit union.

What is the fee the bank in Italy at the airport in Rome charges?

Edit: specifically to benifit visiting Europe or just in general too, how can I justify opening an account at the local credit union like dfcu with the branch near me, the organization only answers the phone during normal business hours; and they are open also Saturday 10-2pm and one weekday until 7pm?

My local credit union is open similar hours and I don't care. They can only tell you what they know, and from what I gather, they do not charge out-of-network ATM fees and they only charge 1 % for foreign currency fees, which are actually what Visa or MasterCard charge them.

So what they don't know is what the foreign ATM will charge and that is generally nothing, but my last trip, the Italian bank Unicredit was charging a couple of EUR for an out-of-network ATM fee, so I just went to another bank that did not charge a fee.

Now, how many dollars will come out of your account when you withdraw 100 EUR? That is the interbank market rate at that instant. Millions of dollars are constantly changing hands and the price goes up and down continually. It is like the stock market, but much much bigger. All the giant banks all over the world are constantly trading dollars for euros, along with individual traders, hedge funds, guys sitting at home in their underwear trading on the internet. The days of fixed exchange rates is long gone. So, as I said before, it can go up and down as much as a half a percent during the day. It might be 1.086754 in the morning (and yes, they go at 5 or 6 decimal places). 1.089236 at noon, and 1.091338 in the evening.

So example, if it was exactly 1.09000 when you took 100 EUR out of the ATM, you would see a charge of $110.09 from your bank account. $109 for the currency plus $1.09 for the interchange fee. Tomorrow it will be a little more or a little less.

One thing to watch out for, is that nowadays is that the ATM will know that it is an American debit card, and it may ask you "Would you like to do the transaction in US$ at 1.12 US$/EUR?" They figure you will want to know the exchange rate and they will quote a rate in their favor to make a couple extra bucks from you. Its called Dynamic Currency Conversion. Always decline this, it will only cost you more money and help the bank president make a bigger bonus.

It's worth opening an account at the CU and transferring money over. You should always have two accounts when traveling in case one account is compromised, the ATM machine eats your card, or other reason. I've linked my local CU with Andrews CU so I can transfer from one institution to the other.

Sounds like you have done some serious research on this. You have realized that even when someone tells you they don't charge a fee for exchanging dollars for Euros, they aren't exactly telling the truth. :-)

How important is it to use a bank/credit union that has a physical presence near you? If you don't need that, there are several online options available to get a debit card that will not charge you any fees to get money anywhere you want and do not charge an inflated exchange rate. As a suggestion, Capital One 360 offers a debit card that has absolutely zero fees to open maintain and use the account as well as no minimum balance requirements. They also have a higher daily withdrawal limit than many. You do everything online. I have used their debit card for 10 years in my travels to Europe and have never found a bank operated ATM that did not work.

Most ATMs in Italy don't (yet) charge a fee. So if you find one that wants to, cancel the transaction and find another machine. They is one on nearly every corner.

dfcu financial, the credit union with a branch 3/4 mile from me, charges $1.50 per transaction for withdrawing from an out-of network ATM.

I lack the knowledge to know whether it it rational for me to care whether a credit union has a branch very close to me. As long as I keep using at least one financial institution (bank or credit union) near me for the rare times I need to cash a paper check, l suppose it is not so important whether the second place has a branch near me.

My math was off. If the interbank exchange rate is 1 euro = 1.093 US dollars, for me to take 800 euros out of my account at a bancomat from a credit union account, 800 x 1.103 = $882.40 + 1.5 = $883.90.

For PNC, 800 x 1.123 = 898.40 or (only) $16.00 US dollars more than dfcu financial, not factoring in the fact that I forgot to ask whether I can withdraw $800 in one transaction or whether there is a $300 or $500 limit...

Mike L.

Many of the credit unions near me are part of the co op ATM network. The network allows members of any of the associated credit unions to use each other's ATMs. I just use a co op ATM machine that's convenient to me for transactions including depositing checks. I haven't been to my actual CU in months. Some CU also offer apps that allow you to deposit checks from wherever you are.

The online banks like Capital One are easy to manage on a computer,tablet or smartphone.

Mark,
My summary of what I read on other websites is, when a bank or credit union issues a debit card, the card has something to do with a card network; examples of networks are MasterCard, Visa, and possibly Cirrus. The networks typically charge a 1% foreign currency exchange fee. Each bank then has a choice of whether the bank will just pass the 1% fee on to the end user or whether the bank (or credit union) will pay the fee, (in which case I would think the bank or credit union covers the fee by paying lower interest rates to account holders); it is common for banks to mark the fee up to 3%. One opinion said that although CapitalOne may be right that Capital One does not charge a fee, the user still pays the fee, it is just that the fee is coming from MasterCard instead of CapitalOne and might be disguised as a slightly worse exchange rate for you.

Mike, if you pay your credit card in full each month (or if you have a 0% APR for a number of months and you pay the minimum balance), it doesn't matter if a card like CapOne has "folded in" the lack of a transaction fee into its APR rates. If you pay on time, you're essentially taking advantage of that lack of a foreign transaction fee (which probably does not apply to every card product, but at least a select few).

You wouldn't use a credit card at an ATM machine (that would be a very expensive credit card advance). The only thing you care about is selecting a debit/ATM card (tied to your checking account) that has the lowest markup over the fee that the networks charge..if it's between 1% and 3%, pick a bank/credit union that gives you a card that only charges %1. This is all spelled out in every advertisement, so there should be no surprises. If some foreign ATM charges you an "additional" fee, it warns you first and you don't need to accept...you just find another ATM. There are many ATMs at foreign airports that unfortunately take advantage by tacking on an extra fee...if I have to get some money, I take out the minimum to get into town (or if it's a flat fee, it doesn't really matter because it's not a percentage of the withdrawal amount).

Please allow me to attempt to clarify what's been stated above. If making a cash withdrawal now, using a VISA branded ATM card in the eurozone, each euro costs $1.093591. The current euro Interbank Rate per Oanda is $1.09. So, it will cost you a $.003591 premium per each euro, not 1%. If your VISA brand ATM card is like mine, there is no foreign transaction fee, so the $.003591 premium is the total cost to secure each euro. My bank does not charge out of network fees and rebates any fees charged by banks issuing the foreign currency. The same $1.093591 rate applies to VISA credit cards transactions now. Be aware a foreign transaction fee, apart from the $.003591 premium for ATM cards and credit cards, may range from nothing to the common 3%. One of my credit cards that I don't use when traveling internationally charges 3%. Search the Travel Forum and you'll find a number of ATM cards and credit cards with zero foreign transaction fees.

I hate to correct Bruce, but that 1.093591 is the actual Interbank rate, which Oanda just rounds it to the nearest penny. Banks generally trade currency to the 1/1000 of a cent, because they are trading +$1,000,000 increments at a time. So those 1/1000 of a penny are significant money. When I have gone over my bank statements, they are are always in 1/1000 of a penny increments, Then the 1% is added on top of that.

@Sam: Thanks for correcting me that the Oanda rate is rounded to whole cents. The rate I quoted using my VISA brand ATM is the total exchange rate with no added 1% or any other surcharge. Where the heck the 1% creeps into the conversation is beyond me unless that's the foreign transaction fee that your bank charges...mine does not.

The teller at PNC seemed to think that the fees for me would be higher if I used an ATM in another country than if I ordered Euros in advance.

He/she is either lying or totally misinformed.
I prefer to have some euros when I arrive in Europe, so I just make sure when I leave Europe I have some for the next trip. I rarely need them, but I might need them for a toll if I pick up my car right at the airport, or for some snacks or something at a bakery at the first town we stop in. I would have no problem getting a couple of hundred euros at home if I needed them, but no more than that.

The card network (Visa, MasterCard, Discover, American Express) charges a fee to your card issuer for foreign exchange. It is a value that is not more than 1% of the total of the transaction and is billed as a lump value during daily settlement between the card issuer and the network for all international traffic not by individual transactions. The larger the bank, or the larger its international traffic, the lower this fee becomes. It is never zero. But the bank may or may not forward that fee on to you as a separate line item on your statement. As far as I can tell, Capital One 360 does NOT forward the 1% to me or bury it in the exchange rate (which they are prohibited from doing), or they have a large enough business that MasterCard charges them a smaller percentage that has no material impact on the cost of transactions for the amounts we would have. And since I am nothing special to them, I would think they also do not forward the fee to other customers of theirs.

Does Capital One 360 not forwarding the international fee negatively impact their interest rates paid? Since they pay on average 10 times what most large banks pay right now on CDs and other deposit products, I don't see that being true. :-)

To verify--two days ago I paid for something in France using my Andrews Federal Credit Union Visa. The XE published exchange rate was 1.087. The rate I got via my card was 1.089. Furthermore, Andrews does NOT charge a fee for using an outside ATM, nor does it add a 1, 2, or 3% charge to Visa or ATM transactions. So there are alternatives to banks that charge ATM fees and add a charge for each transaction.

Finally, I have never set a foot in an Andrews branch, but I've talked to reps on the phone many times.

My math might have been wrong. It may not be rational for me to worry about this, but if my current only bank, PNC, charges 3%, and if I only use an ATM in Italy once or twice so that they reimburse the normal $5 foreign ATM fee, how many US dollars will it end up costing me for one Euro? How much for 800 Euros? The banks or credit unions will only tell me the fees, they can't or won't do the math for me or tell me if my math is right.

That is because there is no telling what the exchange rate will be at any given instant. Like I said, its a market and you get the market price at any given time. If you think you will get a better rate now than in the future, you've just become a currency speculator, albeit a very small one.

@ Sam
I am looking for a math formula that works no matter what the exchange rate is. Two days ago, I might have thought a 3% fee meant, if the exchange rate on websites was 1.093 US dollars = 1 euro, the for taking money out of an ATM with my PNC account, my exchange rate would be 1.393 US dollars = 1 euro. Now I think the formula might be Euros x 1.03, get the answer, whatever the answer is, x whatever the exchange rate is. If I opened an account at the credit union that charges 1% and $1.50 per transaction, would the formula for cost per euro be

1 euro x whatever the exchange rate is, x 1.01, x the number of euros I purchase, + the total ATM fees, / the number of euros I take out.
I made that all up. Is is right or wrong?

I guess it would look like this.

Cost(USD)=WithdrawalAMT(EUR)x(iBankRatex(1+Yourbank%))+Yourbankfee

So if PNC charges 3% foreign currency conversion and a $3.50 out of network fee, to withdraw 200 EUR. 1.095 interbank rate.

200x(1.095x1.03)+3.5=$229.07

For DFCU charges 1% foreign currency conversion and a $1.50 out of network fee, 200 EUR @ 1.095.

200x(1.095*x1.01)+1.5=$222.69

Mike,
As you can see from Sam's math example, the only thing that differs in the formulas is the out of network fee and foreign currency conversion fee. The interbank rate is identical (so it's immaterial no matter which product you choose). You don't need to do any math to know that a 1% foreign currency conversion fee is less than 3% plus a flat out of network fee (if bank reimburses this fee, then don't count it). Just compare all the fees side by side and pick a card where these fees are smaller...it's really that simple.

I screwed up and was afraid to join my local credit union. My trip is Saturday, or two days from now. I just have an account with PNC bank. They charge $5 US dollars per ATM withdraw + a 3% currency conversion fee. The maximum amount per ATM withdraw - I forgot to ask whether this is per day or just per ATM withdraw - is $500 US dollars. To make the math easier, lets over estimate and assume I spend 1,000 US dollars. The exchange rate now on Yahoo is 1.141 US dollars = 1 Euro. Lets assume the worst, that at an exchange desk, 1 Euro will cost 1.16 US dollars. In this case, paper currency exchanged at a currency exchange desk would have this formula:

$1,000 / 1.16 = 862.06 Euros

But taking money out of the ATM machine, my $1,000 automatically turns into $955 US dollars due to PNC bank fees.
Then, 955 US dollars / 1.141 = only 836.98 Euros!!

According to my math, I would GAIN an additional 25.08 Euros by using the currency exchange desk and not the ATM machines!!

Am I right or wrong??

I forgot to ask whether this is per day or just per ATM withdraw

It is per ATM withdrawl

You are wrong about going to a currency exchange desk. There will be a fee in addition to the lousy exchange rate; this is how they make money to rent space and to pay the person exchanging your money.

Stick with the previous plan.

Mike,
You're not being realistic. You're assuming that the exchange bureau would charge you only < 2% markup ($1.16 vs. $1.14). Their markups are much larger than that. Look at the rates on Travelex link below. The exchange rate is 1 USD to 0.8 EUR. That means your $1,000 USD would only get you 800 EUR (not 862 EUR). If that doesn't drive the point home, I don't know what does. You're looking at a horrible option vs. just a bad option (using your PNC bank). If I were you, I would try to maximize using a credit card (assuming you have one without foreign exchange fees) and withdraw only what you absolutely need via your PNC ATM card. You may not need as much cash as you think.
https://www.travelex.com/rates

It's a flat $5 fee per withdrawal and a $500 per day max. So always withdraw the most you think you need to amortize the $5 fee.

Note that some ATMs will limit the amount per transaction, so if you make two €250 transactions, you pay the fee for each.

And I agree, Change Bureaus charge a lot more than you think they do. Some have signs that say "no fee" (they charge no fee, but your bank might), but the exchange rate is still exorbitant. You will lose 10-15% over dealing with a Bancomat (or Postamat at Italian Postal Service).

There are those who use Travel Ex at the airport for peace of mind (I would not since that type of peace of mind is not necessary), regardless of the miserable exchange rate. Hostels take both cash and credit cards. I have used both options to pay at a hostel. Whether they take your card is another story.

If you want to pay 20 cents more for each and every euro you buy at a money exchange, go ahead. This is what it will work out to. What a waste of money this will be for you. Use a real bank ATM.

I would pay $50 not to go through these calculations. No need to reinvent the wheel; just use an ATM.