Teens and packing light

Maybe you could let her take the flip flops as a peace offering :) I now take two pairs of shoes - a comfy pair of Pumas or Sketchers (I'm only 24! Not old enough to wear "old lady shoes" yet!) and a pair of flip flops that can double as shower shoes. I will admit though - in the warmer months, I do wear my flip flops A LOT...even in Rome :) In a 5 week trip, I wore the sensible shoes twice - hiking in Ireland and Cinque Terre. I know a lot of people will cringe at that, but I do love my flip flops. You'll see lots of other people wearing them as well.

Make sure they understand that they will be responsible for carrying their own packs while they're traveling. Then, have them load up everything they're planning to bring on the trip. Get everyone together, drive to a local park, and take a family walk...for 2 hours.

Then when you get home, remind them again that they will be carrying their own packs. You may find they get the point! ;)

Even rolling a suitcase can get heavy after awhile. Years ago I had a huge suitcase and had to drag it around Ohare in Chicago. I felt like my elbow as separating. It didn't even weigh 50lbs but over the corse of 2 hours I desided I would never again pack like that.

In addition to the local park, look for someplace with steps. Even with my carry on I had a hard time going up the abnormally high step on the trams in Rome.

I was the same way when I first went to Spain my senior year of high school - I NEEDED five pairs of shoes for a 10 day trip. Boy was I regretting taking that huge suitcase! It was STUFFED with clothes, and I didn't have any room for souveniers, so I had to buy another cheap bag. That was the first and last time I ever packed like that.

However, I'm still young enough to remember how I was as a teen, and she won't listen to her parents. (I certainly didn't think they ever knew what they were talking about). The suggestion about taking a practice trip around the park or neighborhood is a great one, and hopefully she'll see the light. If not, let her take the big suitcase, and she'll learn, just like I did.

Jennifer, she was telling me that ONE or two pairs of shoes would never do. I asked why not, and she gave me the customary teenage girl roll of the eye saying, "but mom, I can't possibly wear the SAME shoes with every outfit!" The other thing I tried explaining is that no where have I read that walking around Rome in flip flops would work because of the cobbled streets. Her response? "Didn't they wear sandals back then?" You gotta love travelling with teens...sigh.

Can't wait for the park tryouts :-).

I was also a lifeguard for 6 years and practically lived in flip-flops, so that's probably why I find them more comfortable. They also take up a lot less room than normal shoes. But if they cause her pain - leave them! She probably doesn't realize how much walking you'll be doing, so make her wear the shoes on the practice walk too. Good luck!

Make her take everything she wants to pack, AND let her wear the flip/flops? You mean actually simulate the trip? Help her experience travel reality?

MAN we're a cruel bunch...

;)

Your daughter particularly, has to get out of the mindset that she needs to rotate several different outfits while on vacation. She is among people she doesn't know in different locations, so no one else will be aware she is wearing the same thing over and over. I realize this can get boring, but she needs to develop a 'travel uniform" -- a few things that work well together and can be worn virtually all the time. Of course they will have to be washed occassionally, so plans for this must be made.
Also, ease up on the shoes. But flip flops are OK, I always bring some, sturdy ones, not the cheapest. They they work for me even on cobblestones, though I also bring a regular comfortable pair of shoes.

PS your son should not bring more than 2 pairs of jeans.

After 3 miles in flip flops with all her luggage she may feel like she is doing the Bataan Death March. If she is ok on the 3 miles in flip flops, you could always simulate the trip farther you could do it 2 days in a row.

'Death March'...that may well cover it! ;) If she's still happy after 3 miles, wait til the next morning and see how she feels THEN...blisters and all!

Now if she HAS to have a "sandal", maybe she could look at Krocs? I don't use them, but I've had friends swear they are extremely comfortable.

Jennifer -- I have kids older than you and I don't wear "old lady shoes" either. I wear Skechers or Columbia hiking shoes most of the time when I am traveling. I'm not sure what "old lady shoes" are, exactly, but your age doesn't determine if you are fashionable. Different people have different opinions about what is appropriate or comfortable footwear.

I took a group of teens to Europe a few years ago.

I think what I should have done is exactly what Rick suggests. Made them pack up everything they "can't live without" and then made them CARRY it around a local city, up three flights of stairs etc....

I didn't. However what I did do was announce at the every point during the planning that "you pack it you carry it" I suggest you start telling your teens that NOW and then I would stick to my guns. I promise that in three weeks in Europe I only TOUCHED one of my girl's suitcases. (She got very ill on a travel day. I dealt with her luggage, of course she was the ONLY girl who did it in a 22" suitcase so I was lucky) The other "princesses' carried their own luggage (one girl paid an overweight charge on a flight out of her own packet) The chaperones all just stood there and laughed. They learned....

Haha I sure wish someone had made me pack up a suitcase and lug it around for a couple hours. I had to learn it the hard way. I went to France a couple years ago and I took and enormous rolling duffle with me. It weighed a ton. I had many outfits (because you never know what you'll want to wear), many pairs of shoes (to go with the different outfits) and full hairstyling paraphernalia. I was on a budget so it was Metro (subway) and train travel everywhere. There are a million stairs in Paris Metro stations and it seemed like 5 times as many with all that stuff.
I have since learned that you don't need a lot of pieces to have several outfits and many hostels have laundry services. Because you're traveling in places where nobody knows you, only one dressier outfit is needed as are only two pairs of actual shoes (walking, dressy) though I also bring several pairs of flip flops. I've walked all over London and Paris them and my only complaint is that your feet end up being really filthy.

I took a group of college freshmen and sophomores to Italy last year. They lived in their flip flops and seemed to do ok. Young feet and arches! Do see if you can talk her into croc flip flops. They are much more supportive than plain ones. My crocs were my best friend on that trip and one later in the summer to China. They were light, supportive, and very comfortable. I have foot issues and had no problems when I was wearing them. I know all the arguments about how awful it is to wear them in Europe, but still feel that my feet and the ability to walk are much more important than someone passing judgment on me for my shoes!)

Eli- I'm of the the "let her bring what she wants but she has to carry it" mindset - with one exception. If you are going to Rome be sure that your daughter knows the dress code for Italian churches and brings at least one appropriate outfit (which she then may have to wear more than once). Otherwise you have other battles to fight so give her a little info but let her decide. The suitcase might be heavier than you'd like it to be but as long as she is willing to carry it (and you don't have to pay an airline surcharge) I wouldn't even make her do the mock trip to show her how bad it will be. Just do it - even if it is very heavy as long as she is a teenager she certainly would not ask you to carry it for her.

And as for flipflops. My daughter took 2 pairs with her for 3 1/2 weeks in Europe during the summer. They were not of the cheap variety (like shower shoes) and she did fine. I gave up long ago telling others what to pack except for those who actually ask for my advice!

One of the best suggestions I've come across has been to lay out everything you plan to take...then put half of it back.

Have you talked with your daughter about "mixing" wardrobe pieces? I mean interchangeability, using one blouse with several different slacks, etc? You could help her look through her "take along" stuff and lay different combinations out, and show her how a few "mixable" pieces can go a long way!~

Oh, and since it was my suggestion...I still can't wait to hear how the death march goes! ;)))

Roy

One summer in college my sister hooked up with my cousin who lives in Spain and they Eurorailed their way around Europe. They each fit everthing they were taking in to a back pack each. Even though they packed light they left things all over Europe. She would dump a pair of shoes and say "Casualty of Florence" and leave a pair of jeans there and say "Casualty of Paris". When they made it back to my Aunts house in Spain my sister had her one pair of jeans and only a few tops, a sweater, a pair of shower shoes and her sneakers. That and a few toiletries. I am not sure if she would have dumped so many things had she been on the trip with her mom and our dad. Maybe it has to do with her being on her own and responsible for everything.

She is now the Queen of packing light. She was working for Motorola and traveled in South America for over a month at a time on busniness trips and people were amazed she only travels with a rolling duffle.

I'm also in the planning stages with 17 year old daughter for 3 week trip to Europe in June. I've made all the mistakes myself, so have given her plenty of advice and am already planning on how little I can get by with. She lives in Jeans and flip-flops (or Vans) and needs plenty of hair care equipment!

My trick for this trip is that we've already bought our bags. The RS roll on for me and the RS classic convertible for her. I've told her everything must fit in her carryon. So - she may end up with jeans (can't talk her out of), makeup, flip-flops, curling iron, flattening iron,hair dryer and converters...but that will be it :-).

I may try making her do the hike also, but she's tough, stubborn and athletic and she would walk 5 miles in flips flops with a 50 pound duffle just to prove me wrong!!! I think I will ask her to hand wash a pair of jeans and wear them the next day, no matter how wet and see if that gets anything through!

Haha, I'm liking this thread, though I have to say I'm having the opposite problem.

I'm 21 and at the end of this month, my parents are comming to visit me (in France) for 10 days, and my mom is so worried about packing. I'm telling her to pack light and read ETBD, reminding her that when I pick them up at the airport we will be taking the RER and Metro into which involves lots of staris but shes still having trouble...

I'm going to suggest that she do a walk around the neigbourhood including stairs with her luggage.

Eli, ETBD is Europe Through the Back Door. It's Rick's organization's name, and also the title of a book and a series of DVD's. This is a quote from this website, under "pack light and right"...it's great advice!

"Limit yourself to 20 pounds in a carry-on–size bag. A 9" x 22" x 14" bag fits under most airplane seats.... You'll walk with your luggage more than you think you will. Before leaving home, give yourself a test. Pack up completely, go into your hometown, and practice being a tourist for an hour. Fully loaded, you should enjoy window-shopping. If you can't, stagger home and thin things out."

I see nothing wrong with dressing "cute" or "smart." To pack light it is necessary to limit the total weight of the pack. I've noticed that many people are carrying more electronic gear now, and that stuff is heavy. So are books. I limit my pack to 17-18#, because that is the limit of comfort for me. When I first traveled using the advice of Frommer's "Europe on 5$ a Day" book, I actually underpacked and took only one WHITE shirt. I was washing by hand every night and the shirt was gray when I got home. Now I travel with (besides what I'm wearing) 2 sets of underwear and sox, 1-2 shirts, 1 t-shirt, 1 tanktop, one cotton turtleneck, a fleece sweater, sandals and 1 crop-pants. I also take a colorful scarf and wear my long pants, walking shoes, and raincoat onto the plane. Colors are navy, red, and blue. Everything goes with everything else color-wise. Books, toiletries, small 1st-aid kit, etc. I can pack up and go in five minutes and am comfortable carrying it a mile or two.

Of course. no teenager would know what the Bataan Death March was about (and I suspect people in their 20s as well!!
My one caveat is never never take a rolling duffel (large). I did once and it was the biggest mistake I ever made. They are cumbersome, tip over really easily and if you ever have to do stairs you will hate it. Mine is now used to store off-season clothes in the basement! I might use it for an auto trip but NEVER overseas.
Most hotels have hair dryers nowadays. The teenagers I know who went to Europe with all their "hair gear" kept throwing it out as they traveled!!!!!
Jeans may be comfortable but really HOT in the summer and if they get wet, they take forever to dry.
Try walking around all day in a pair of wet jeans!!!

Lots of luck with your daughter. If she were mine, I would leave her home. It's sort of: these are the rules, if you don't like them, you don't go. She will get over it quickly!!!!

Sorry to be so hard-nosed but that's the way I was brought up

I realize that this will make me sound like a grumpy frau - kids today seem to have so much and they don't even appreciate it. Your children are VERY LUCKY to be going to Europe for such a nice vacation in the first place. You are providing this privilege, you set the guidelines. Get her a nice 21" carry-on, one that she likes, and tell her that's all she gets to take. Then, after the whining dies down and she gets to work deciding what she should pack, compliment the cute outfits she's put together and the wise decision to limit herself to two lip glosses. This will prepare her for dorm life when she'll be required to stuff her possessions into one tiny closet and chest of drawers :)

I think I agree, Eli's kids are very lucky...I didn't fly until I was 24....but that doesn't mean that THEY are seeing it that way! ;))))

As parents, we have to make our points, for sure. But if we can help them see the logic in what we say, and let them discover reality for themselves, I think that teaches them to apply judgement to what they do. That seems a good lesson to pass on!

Of course, there's a bit of satisfaction to "because I said so" too!!!!!!!!!!!

;))))))

My dad used to work for the airlines so we were fortunate enough to go on quite a few trips, although we always flew standby. Checking luggage when flying standby can really be a mess, so we were always limited to one rolling suitcase that we could carry on with us, no matter how long the trip or season. It was just something that my brother, sister, and I were used to and we did just fine on numerous trips throughout our teenage years. I am now 24 and still only take my carry-on rolling suitcase even for two-week business trips. My co-workers are amazed...but it is so convenient. If you give your daughter a specified bag and say that she can pack whatever in it as long as she is responsible for carrying it, she will be just fine. You'll most likely receive thanks after the trip rather than before, though...that's just how teenagers work- we've all been there :)

My wife and I both in our mid 60s took a friend of hers to Rome and Florence for 8 days.We told her she had to carry her bag and could not check it.She balked until I pointed out that I was in charge of the trip and she did not have to go if she didnt wish to.She went,handled it fine and still talks about it.

My kids were young teenagers (14/15). We went in winter and they were told they could only take 3 pr pants/trousers/jeans, 3 l/s tshirts, 3 l/s shirts etc and basically that's what they did. My daughter then wore some of her brother's clothes, and they bought some clothes along the way as souvenirs! For shoes they had a pair of boots - like hiking boots and then a second pair - runners or ballet shoes (?like your mary janes - flat shoes). It all had to fit in a backpack, which they carried. Our jackets/overcoats were extra. Yes - my daughter was very fashion conscious - but was possibly into a grunge look at the time, so that helped somewhat.

My first time abroad, I went on a 4 week trip when I was 14 and I think I brought 24 outfits and 8 pairs of shoes. I also got up at 5am to curl my hair and would sleep on the bus through the sights.

This time I am going to Italy for 12 days on 4 outfits.

My grandmother always said " if the same person sees you in city A in an outfit and then again in City B in the same outfit 4 days later, you're being followed. Otherwise, it doesn't matter who sees you in what.

But obviously I had to live and learn that lesson.

Good luck! I like the concept of providing her with a bag and telling her to take whatever she can fit in it!

Some teens do manage to pack light in Europe. I brought 4 outfits (3 shirts, one pair of pants, one pair of capris, one summer dress, one pair of shorts) for a week in Europe at 16 without anyone really telling me to pack light. We brought one hairdryer for the 4 girls we were in our room as we usually had to take our showers in the morning and leave right after so our hair would be still wet. I think it's just a personal thing. Back then, I knew I was going to walk a lot and that I would end up tired of having a backpack too big.
I'll be going for a week-end in New York with my college and we'll have barely no walking to do so I'll bring more stuff with me.
It is possible for young and fashionable girls to pack light in Europe. Maybe check out wetseal.com, they have very cute dresses. Much better than bringing a big pair of jeans.

ETBD=Europe Through the Backdoor by Rick Steves

Haha parents are just as hard to convince to do things differently than their minds are set on as teens are! (loving the irony as I was a teen not so very long ago)

Counter argument too "enough smart clothes" unless he was going to see the Queen again, that one outfit would suffice for every occasion requiring smart clothes. And the fewer you you're hauling around the smarter you are =)

Guess what? My daughter sat here reading through all the responses (she couldn't believe I had posted something about her on a web site), but strangely enough some of the posts that mentioned how much clothing you all took before becoming wise to packing light/less really caught her attention. We're now going to shop for smaller bags and look for comfortable shoes. She did point out that her clothes are really tiny so tank tops/capris/t-shirts won't take that much space. I also wrote to my friend to find out if a hair dryer is available in England, and also in Italy and France. That way we won't need one! Her skin is very sensitive so we have to get prescription body wash/face wash and those things must go. We had quite a chuckle though reading through all the posts. You guys might have made her into a less is best packer. Report will come soon enough when we do a practice run.

I guess I'm lucky. On our trips we told our kids they had one carry-on size only (that they were carrying). I let them choose whether they wanted a convertible carry-on (like mine) or a roll-on (like mom's). I gave them a packing list to help. They wanted to take more initially but it wouldn't fit in their bag, so they had to cut back until it fit.

I'm sure girls are harder than boys. We didn't take our oldest when she was sixteen because she was being impossible (she still complains about being left behind with Grandma, but she also knows why). Our middle two are boys and they just do what we tell them. Our youngest is a princess but she still follows directions (she's ten now, we'll see how long that lasts).

Eli: I am so happy that your daughter is perhaps seeing the light!!! It's such a gift to have this European experience at her age, you all want to enjoy it to the utmost. Besides she COULD pick up some nifty number in Europe that all her friends will drool over when she returns!!! (nifty numbers tend to cost a lot however!!!. FOr instance if something is $35. in the US Gap, it is 35 Euros overseas!!! Same thing! Have a happy trip and maybe SHE could write an article for teens on traveling when she returns. I think we would all enjoy reading it!

Hi all, we ordered one of RS' bags (to show daughter the size), and she was most receptive! As long as she can pack whatever in that bag, she is cool with that. The only thing she asked about is how are we going to bring back "stuff" from Europe, so I am thinking of getting a cheap parachute type foldup bag to stick in one of our carryon bags.

We are going to watch the weather to get an idea of what to pack. One month from today we should be in England!

P.S. This is the first time we will be trying the less is best approach, but I was so pleased to hear hubby telling me that he picked up a co-worker at the airport yesterday and he couldn't believe HOW MUCH LUGGAGE the guy had. He told me the suitcases were at least 30" and very heavy. He had been to Poland for a week. Hmmmm...looks like we should send him this link.

What a relief. I thought it was only my daughter (turning 16) who was being so ridiculously stubborn. We're splitting London and Paris on a 10 day trip in mid-late June. She wants to bring all of her hair care equipment and complete wardrobes for each city...get this...in case anybody from London sees her in Paris! (She's also sure she's going to bump into Johnny Depp in Paris) Shoes? She has selected an array of fashionable flats and such, but certainly nothing suitable for a day of walking. Moneybelt? You've got to be kidding. She wants to carry a huge floppy movie star purse that the pickpockets would have a field day with. I like the idea of dressing her up and letting her drag her bags (she insists she's bringing two) for two miles as a practice run. Yep, I like that a lot.

Never two bags. Never. That must really be horrible.
I've flew only in Europe, and we CAN'T take more than 20 kilos to the flight... and 20 kilos it's really enough when you have to take it up and down in the Paris métro.

I've been moving twice (emigrating) with just one big and one small suitcase, about 35 kilos alltogether. If I can move with only that, a young girl must be able to spend few weeks with lot less. (And, 35 kilos.. a nightmare)

Last summer I went alone to Ireland. I had 15 kilos in a backbag, with a tent, a sleeping bag, and the bag itself... And it was largely enough to a girl to carry all that.

Callan, what scared my daughter into the lighter mode is when I told her we were going to hike with our packed bags (at least 3 miles) before the trip. The thought of being seen by her friends hiking in town with a suitcase was enough for her to give in, LOL

We still have not decided on her shoes though. She bought some Clarks flipflops, but my beloved does not understand that cobbled streets in Rome is going to be very different from walking in Paris. I am hoping she sees the light soon. Good luck with yours. Threaten her with a hike soon!

From Rick's blog- "I can change my shirt whenever I like--rather than wearing the same one for five days in a row as I do when making a TV show (to minimize "continuity" concerns when filming)." So tell your daughter if he can she can (but I guess he has to)!

I wouldn't worry too much about the flip-flops; Clark's tend to have very good support in them. People here in the Seattle area hike in flip-flops all the time (and I mean rugged forest/mountain hiking) so as long as your feet can take it the shoe won't matter. If she's used to walking in flip-flops she'll probably be fine, especially wearing (broken in) Clark's. Besides, there may be whole new wardrobe issues if flip-flops are unavailable =)

Shoes: When you have the kids doing their test-hike around town with the luggage they want to take, make sure that they are also wearing the same shoes they plan to take. Also make sure that the hike includes rough terrain, stairs, stairs and lots more stairs.

My first trip to Europe I made a lot of the common over-packing mistakes, but the one very RIGHT move that I made was to listen to what people here said and get good shoes. This was 4 yrs ago - I got a pair of Ecco Soft shoes, and wore them everywhere - dinner out and the theater in London, hard walk all over Paris, the beaches of Normandy - never had a problem. Not just walking either - standing all day while doing research in the Family Research Center in London. I still have those shoes, and will be taking ONLY them back to Europe this fall. Don't take new shoes without giving them a hard test at home - nothing ruins a trip faster than feet that hurt.

regarding hauling electrical appliances - Do these girls realize that in addition to the appliances that they will also need to carry both adapters for the different plugs in each country, plus a converter for the different voltages? Yet more space taken, weight added. Remember to add these - or something of about the same size/weight - to their test packs....

Pat, that could certainly true in some cases! Though I do know one person who never does, but nearly always hikes barefoot! Some hard core hikers wear sport sandles and shorts no matter what the time of year (to be fair they sometimes pair the sandles with socks =)

I'm not sure if anyone posted this, but I use Rick's packing list faithfully, and his mesh cubes. Have never under or overpacked, and have room for more stuff like souvenirs such as clothes purchased for myself in Europe.

Glad she has changed her mind. When I was 18, I took 2 hard-sized Samsonites (that I bought myself) on a 3 week trip to Germany. My parents made me responsible for them...and I was. I learned my lesson...kind-of. ; )