There's a website advertising pick-pocket proof travel wear (you can google it if you want to know more) that lists the places people have reported pick-pocketing was thwarted by these products. Pretty much what you would expect if you read this forum regularly:
Rome 13
Paris 5
Barcelona 4
Athens 2
And then 1 each: Lima, Quito, Dakar, Chiang Mai, Lyon, Boca Chica (DR), Florence, La Spezia, Milan, Nice, Ho Chi Minh City, Playa del Carmen, Rio
Without context that is fairly meaningless. 13 out of what? 20?, 100?, 1000? in one month?, one year, what ?? How accurate is self-reporting?
Having been to the following cities on this list
Rome 2x, Paris at least 7, Barcelona 2x and Athens 1x, Florence 2x, La Spieza 1x, Playa del Carmen 2x, Nice 1x. Plus a lot that don't seem to make their listing including Naples, which generally gets a bad rep.......
I have never been pickpocketed and that's without overpaying for "pick pocket proof" gear.
But they have a great model. Create fear and make it seem like only "we" can protect you!
Create fear and make it seem like only "we" can protect you!
Hmm, why does that sound familiar? 😉
Exactly Carol... and Kathy, very familiar lol.
London and other places are conspicuously missing from their list.
I sadly miss Istanbul, the only place I nearly got pickpocketed.
Tom, thank you. Your efforts to contribute to the forum are appreciated. It is an often discussed topic. There are two camps. There is the "it never happened to me so you are silly to worry" camp and the "where the hell is my wallet" camp. Personally I exercise a little additional care no matter where I am if I am at some great distance from my usual support network. I don't really care what anyone else does. The clothing that I think you are referencing is pushing the limit a bit by saying "proof" but they make pretty decent clothing for travel. Lots of pockets which I appreciate when on the road, and secure fasteners on those pockets. If I lose my wallet in D.C. I can call a friend for help, in Baku the options are somewhat limited so the fasteners are "prudent" as a great world leader once said.
The testimonials do support the claim for the need. Over the years I have made something in the neighborhood of 50 trips to Europe and I have been hit by thieves twice. In neither event were they successful, but they could have been. I just got lucky. So for me the odds are 1:25 trips; and I don't frequent the places with the worst reputations like Paris and Rome and Prague and Barcelona. I am somewhat connected to a tourist business and I have from time to time heard clients comment on having been hit; but not terribly frequently and mostly in places like those I mentioned above. Still, imagine standing in your home town with no wallet. Now imagine standing in Rome with no wallet and a flight home in 6 hours......
It's a data set so it has intrinsic value, and since it comes from one entity the means of reporting was the same. And the only people who are reporting are tourists, and those are the ones this board focuses on.
The problem with comparing official crime statistics from one city to another is that different systems are being used, and what is reported in one place may not be considered worthy of being reported in another.
The pick-pocketing topics on this board usually devolve into platitudes useless for tourists:
The "I've never had a problem" people, but one person is an anecdote, not a data set.
The "Every place has the same crime risk" people which is bonkers, London simply does not have the crime risk of Paris and Milan does not have the crime risk of Rome, despite similar size and geography of those two pairs.
The "The US has the worst crime rate" people which doesn't help at all, and applied to tourist crime is simply false.
You can make a claim for intrinsic value but without context it means nothing. Based on your "data" are you saying that you are 6 times more likely for a pickpocket attempt in Rome over Athens or 3 times more likely over Barcelona. I thought Barcelona was the pickpocket capital of Europe. No matter how you cut the statistics, the overall probability of one person being pickpocket in Europe is low. How low is the question? I would even contend it is very low and especially if you take some reasonable precautions.
I exercise a lot of care.
I just don't pay the "safe" people for products I don't need :)
When traveling, especially on trains from the airport, I use a money belt. I leave most of my credit cards and money either in the money belt or in a hotel safe. (yes I only carry a copy of my passport.. I will risk it with the local police, it worked in Italy!) I am aware of my surroundings and I keep my purse close and closed. I don't travel with more luggage than I can handle leaving me trying to juggle like a pack mule and getting distracted trying to keep up with all my "stuff".....I avoid places that scream "DANGER" and while going to places where the known scam artists are I make sure to discourage them (No, in numerous trips to Europe, I have never allowed anyone to get me to sign a petition, put a bracelet on my arm or gone along with the "ohh laa laa I found a gold ring" game. I just smile and say "No, Thank you" in the local language and move on. I don't live in fear, I just use some common sense, just like I do in Atlanta!)
I am sure I will get hit someday. And they will get 20 or 30 Euros. I will live. They might get my phone, probably the biggest hassle, but... I've also lost a few over the years. (I have one friend who uses the "Pickpocket" line every time she loses her phone which is quite often. The big problem is when someone turns the phone in she looks bad. Kind of like my former co-worker who claimed someone stole his laptop out of the bag on the plane. While he's on the phone with my boss spinning this yarn, the office gets a call from someone at the Nashville airport. "We have one of your laptops, it was left at the security checkpoint this morning" I email boss, he specifically asks about checkpoint "Oh no, I know I put it back in my bag" LOL! BUSTED!)
"London simply does not have the crime risk of Paris"
Tom, what "crimes" are you referring to? Pickpockets, burglary, assault, rape, murder? "Crimes" covers a broad range.
From my Google search, Paris and London are close, with the US being FAR more dangerous than either Paris or London.
No intrinsic value in figures without any context.
13 people pickpocketed out of 25 in a half-hour?
13 people pickpocketed out of 10,000 in a year?
13 euros pickpocketed out of 15 euros? 13 cents pickpocketed out of 1500 euros?
Without any context, the figures and city names are just gibberish.
Whether any accuracy is attached to the numbers doesn't matter. The main point is in certain cities your chances of getting hit are greater, more so in Paris than Frankfurt or Berlin. The counter-argument: it can happen anywhere. True, but I don't buy it. I am not going to bet on my getting picked in German or Austrian cities as I could more likely in terms of the odds in Rome and Paris, or Prague. Certain cities known to be pickpocket centers, or perceived as such, Paris, Rome, Barcelona, etc. accurately or inaccurately.
It's all relative, all I know is after 22 trips in 46 years, I am much more on guard in Paris than would be in Hamburg, Frankfurt or Berlin, generally more in cities in France than in cities in Germany and Austria. In towns/cities in Germany and Austria, aside from the usual common sense measures, I hardly even think of pickpocketing, especially walking in towns in the east...Weimar, Meißen, Neustrelitz, Potsdam, Frankfurt an der Oder,etc,
Remember Kim - it was only attempts. Not sure what that is. I see postings of people who have four or five attempts on them on every trip. One poster claimed three attempts in one block in Madrid. There are some who see a pickpocket around every corner. In all of our travels covering at least a year in Europe I have never seen a pickpocket attempt on anyone, maybe one time a suspicious distraction and two very minor attempts on myself and that was 20 years ago. Pickpocketing should be concern but it is not epidemic.
Agree Frank.
Fred, I could not be more relaxed in Paris. Was just there for 15 days... went all over alone, at night, on mêtro and walking, and could not have felt safer or felt more relaxed. I'm street smart after 51 yrs in SF so for me, Paris is sublime. Just shows how each person is so different from another.
Ironic that people are criticizing the OP data since it lacks s a reference point (valid), but then throw out their own anecdotal data that also lacks any real reference. Not trying to be overly critical, just an observation...
I would argue that pickpockets target a certain type of victim: one that is clearly not paying much attention, is in an environment that offers plenty of distractions (visual and sensual), and has their wallet in an obvious place (bulging front or back pocket, standard purse dangling from someone's shoulder). So even without buying various anti-theft systems, one can largely avoid the threat of a pickpocket. And it may explain why some people claim to be repeat victims of pickpocket attempts (successful or not).
In many years of living and traveling in western Europe, I've only had a very few attempts made on me or my immediate travel companions. I've seen a handful of other attempts to others. Most, if not all, were in the standard high-risk places like Rome, Barcelona and Paris. That's my anecdotal addition...
Those numbers are anecdotal as well, and come from a limited source---the universe of people who bought travel clothing from the company, traveled with it, and reported an attempt at pick pocketing which was thwarted.
@ Susan...I agree up to a point. I know in Paris since my first time that I won't get jumped in the streets American style or be a victim of a "stick-up" but my chances of getting picked are much great at a Paris Metro station than at a BART station. There are, as you well know, that certain Metro stations that have a reputation, or are known to be pickpocket hangouts, if that matters to you. In the 1970s and '80s in Paris I never carried any sort "anti-theft security"...hidden pocket, neck pouch, money belt, (didn't even know what they were) etc, wore my wallet in the rear pocket typical of American guys. Not quite same way of traveling like that anymore in Paris. Some are more on guard, some less.
Main point is in spite of the petty crime, real or perceived, does it deter a tourist from going to Paris. For some yes, certainly not in my case, after all, "c'est ça Paris," as that song goes.
What I find most amazing is the animosity and ridicule given to someone just trying to be helpful. It becomes a feeding frenzy to try and prove that there is no proof that the sky is blue and bears defecate in the woods.
MsEB, you are the second person in two years that I have heard was pickpocketed in the Vienna transportation system. The other, a gentleman, got no assistance from those on the tram. They just watched as he tried to recover his wallet from the young woman dressed in Roma attire.
Fred, me personally, I have no greater chance of being pickpocketed in Paris, in or out of any mêtro station, than I do on SF's BART and I don't wear a money belt.
I've spent 8 ? yrs in Paris and have never had even an attempted pickpocket because I have none of the factors that would make me a target.
... but my chances of getting picked are much great at a Paris Metro station than at a BART station......
Maybe or maybe not. That is a perception. Do you have any data to back that up? My perception is that my risk of theft is far greater on a Chicago L platform than anywhere in Rome, London, Paris, or Barcelona. I feel safer in New York than Chicago - have no idea why. Here we just had a mugging at an RTD light rail station in Denver following with a shooting that killed the victim. Look at the Ft. Lauderdale airport shooting. Random and not so random crime can occur anywhere at anytime. The drum beat of pickpockets and petty theft in Europe is so constant on travel sites that pretty soon nearly everyone believes they are headed into a den of thieves and will be stripped naked in the first ten minutes. That is why I wear two set of underwear.
Agree with you again Frank. Well said.
The drum beat of pickpockets and petty theft in Europe is so constant
on travel sites
It's also very constant at popular sites throughout Europe. I have lost count of how many "beware of pickpocket" signs and announcement I've come across in my travels. The locals don't go through the expense and hassle of installing them for nuthin.
Thing is, I don't want to scare the pants off a novice who is already nervous about traveling abroad. That's what I hate about the, "OMG, you HAVE to watch EVERY MINUTE that somebody doesn't try and take your stuff!" posts. It's so much better to take the matter-of-fact approach about protecting yourself? Sure, a bad thing could happen but chances are very great that it won't if you just take a few easy precautions.
Tell them what those are, and tell them to relax. They're already worried enough about trains and buses and getting euros and language and all sorts of other things which are foreign to them. I don't want them walking around with a bag clutched to their chest all the time and so uptight that they can't have a good time. That's not fun, and their vacation should - and can be - a LOT of fun.
Why upset them with posts like this instead of reassuring them that there are very good and very easy ways to avoid a problem?
The drum beat of pickpockets and petty theft in Europe is so constant
on travel sites that pretty soon nearly everyone believes they are
headed into a den of thieves and will be stripped naked in the first
ten minutes. That is why I wear two set of underwear.
The drum beat is of those ridiculing the OP or supporting those that have done so or further making the impression that the subject is ridiculous. The folks make up about 7/8th of all the posts above. Remove those posts and there would be 3 or 4 pretty benign comments in this thread and the issue would be more in perspective.
James, I don't see any ridiculing here at all. The calm, matter-of-fact approach is the one Mr. Steves takes himself. Have you ever seen him all in a snit over security? No. My husband and I don't wear moneybelts but many do because of his counsel, and others like ourselves have found their own methods over multiple trips. Again, why scare people to death over a pitfall they can more easily avoid than not?
I'm more worried about the people who are crossing OUR country off the list due to any number of reasons right now that I won't go into.
JamesE, I see no animosity or ridicule of Tom, only discussion of a topic. I have however, received animosity and ridicule from you in the past, so what you've said here is quite ironic.
If that list is accurate than I have a much lower chance of being pickpocketed in The U.S.A.!
Okay, Kathy, I will accept that I was a little strong, and a tad biased. I will rephrase:
The drum beat of pickpockets and petty theft in Europe is so constant
on travel sites that pretty soon nearly everyone believes they are
headed into a den of thieves and will be stripped naked in the first
ten minutes. That is why I wear two set of underwear.
Actually i like the underwear line. A little levity is a healthy thing. But the drum beat is of those making the impression that the subject is ridiculous. Those folks make up about 7/8th of all the posts above. Remove those posts and there would be 3 or 4 pretty benign comments in this thread and the issue would be more in perspective and much less of a drum beat.
The rest of your statement is out of context if you are referring to me. You should read above and find out where i stand on the issue and you might be surprised; in that I agree that its “a pitfall they can more easily avoid than not?” The world needs more discussion on all subjects, including compassion and a realization that good people can disagree. Maybe I’m just an old fart and don’t see the respect shown to the OP because of modern writing style..
I also agree with you that there are things going on that are probably hurting tourism in the US, but I am not particularly worried about it. I worry about the attitudes of people that support countries that are responsible for atrocities against humanity on a daily basis. And I worry about US citizens that keep quiet about it and don't recognize just how good we have it here compared to a large portion of the world. Or maybe they know and are too self involved to care. Don't know. This one honestly confuses me.....
Still your points are well taken. Thank you for the conversation.
MsEB, the guest that had his wallet lifted on the tram said he yelled for help, but no one moved. He did get it back from her, the doors opened and she walked out like nothing happened.
But while it can happen I don't let it control much when I travel. I put the big stuff, and when I am in the old Soviet Block countries my Passport (law), in a neck pouch and I put spending money in a zipped front pocket or a buttoned cargo pocket and then I go on with life and don't give it much thought. I only show that much care because if were to loose something it could ruin an expensive trip really fast.
On my first trip to Paris a young woman in Roma attire attempted to unzip my backpack while I was wearing it. On my second trip to Paris I sat under the Eiffel Tower and watched young ladies in Roma attire lifting wallets. Also watching were the police. They did nothing so I did nothing. I watch my stuff a little more closely in Paris these days; and I am always careful around young ladies dressed in Roma attire.
@ Susan...There is a difference seeing someone else being a victim of a pickpocket, which I've seen at least once in Paris. Admittedly, two attempts were made on me in 1999 both in Paris Metro stations, (I remember that trip, more so relating to the German part), on the Paris Metro, as I was trying to board amidst a ton of people trying to get off and those trying to get on. My left foot was still on the platform, the right on the Metro car, not a very enviable position, and I saw a hand in my flimsy worn out waist belt...first time using one on a trip. It had been unzipped. I could have tapped that hand...yes it was that of a guy...but I did nothing; he must have felt nothing was there to take. He pulled his hand out. Wrong...I had two or three 35 mm plastic film containers, one of which was filled with one DM and one FF coins mixed together. The thief missed out. Tant pis. I did think then this is more than coincidence, two attempts, but what if I wore a Hawaiian shirt.
Since 2001 I've been using a larger, better made Eagle Greek waist belt, unlike that piece of junk before. No such problems with the Eagle Creek. product.
@ James...valid points. I prefer the label " old geezer" to myself when going over to Europe. On going over to the east-central European cities, I remember in the late 1990s I was having lunch at a restaurant in the financial district of SF, the waitress was Czech as was the owner, told her in the exchange that having been to Prague in the Cold War days (one visit) that I wanted to see it nowadays. She then proceeds to warn me of pickpockets especially that on the Charles Bridge, that all Czechs know of this. Exaggerating to make a point..fine. Totally ignorant, I was surprised, that was news to me. When I was in Prague in 1973 as a backpacker, I didn't even think of pickpocketing. Maybe "they" didn't dare back then. Anyway, in the next few years, I never went, we went to Poland in 2001 instead.
Actually i like the underwear line. A little levity is a healthy
thing.
I like that too; we can agree on the benefits of levity. :O)
I don't want to scare the pants off a novice who is already nervous about traveling abroad.
Kathy - there are too many American tourists going to Europe! Enough! Let them stay home if they are scared. (Yes ... joking ... levity...)
James_E: what is "Roma attire"? How are these young ladies dressed?
The purpose of the post was two things:
Remind travelers that a handful of European cities have red zones at their most touristy places where the risk of pick-pocketing is sky high.
Shame this handful of European cities into stop tolerating their pick-pocketing problem.
Tom_MN; point well taken. Thank you.
Sasha: Roma Clothing
James_E, surely that is not what you meant. My question is serious: how do you recognize "Roma attire"? I want to know somI can avoid these young woman you describe.
@ James....If you what you are saying on "Roma attire" is what I think, then you are on target. It's obvious. Quite evident in Paris at Gare du Nord., and at Frankfurt Hbf last June I heard the announcements were first made in German and also in English they were circulating in the station as warnings.
@Tom_Mn,
I wholeheartedly agree with your first point, but not the second one. Pickpockets are notoriously difficult to apprehend and prosecute. When tourists are targeted, the crime is widely underreported, and the bureaucratic thresholds for a full-scale response are not triggered.
Most of the cities mentioned do have procedures in place and resources dedicated to tackling the problem, but there is only so much you can do when you are dealing with 60,000 tourists every day concentrated in a relatively small area of town and organized groups of professional thieves travelling internationally and following the "preferred tourist destinations" to prey on these tourists.
Unlike some less popular regimes to the East of Poland, European authorities, tolerant and democratic as they are, simply cannot afford the negative PR fallout from rounding up the encampments of certain minorities and telling them in no uncertain terms that they are to leave the city within 24 hours, or else...
"Shaming" doesn't make sense. Reporting crime to local authorities does.
@Sasha,
As non-PC as it is, here's a link to some ethnic profiling visuals.
http://bit.ly/2nqMy8F
"If you what you are saying on "Roma attire" is what I think, then you are on target. It's obvious"
Will someone please give some precise examples of what constitutes Roma attire, rather than assuming that everyone knows what you are talking about? I, along with others here, would like some clarification so we can be on the lookout.
"that piece-of-garbage thief "
It's nice to see that some forum members have such a high opinion of their fellow humans, especially those who may be a bit more down on their luck than they.
Yea, Nancy! I too wish he (or Fred) would explain what is meant by Roma attire" instead of these mysterious references. My impression is that the young women do not weat the traditional dress ( long skirt, scarsdale for married some, etc.) and tend to dress more like modern Europeans--- meaning skinny jeans and large tops these days. I that case they would not be recognizable by attire. But maybe I am wrong.
Whatever terminology is used to describe the typical attire of pickpockets and scammers, it's very distinctive and not hard to spot.....
Well, if their attire is so distinctive and easy to spot how come they are so successful so often? Seems to me you should be able to spot them before they get near you.
Just sayin'.
EDIT Don't mind me, I'm just feeling a little snarky today and this forum is my chosen outlet. To be honest all this pickpocket business on this forum tends to annoy me. We all know they are out there and they are not that easy to spot. The best solution appears to be to not make a target of yourself, be aware of your 'space' when in crowds, keep your valuables in deep storage (money belt, etc) or leave them in hotel safe, don't carry anything in a wallet or purse that you aren't prepared to lose.
Don't blame the victim. When on vacation most people sane people don't engage in racial profiling and or act like a squirrel constantly scanning their surroundings for hawks 24/7.
EDIT Don't mind me, I'm just feeling a little snarky today and this
forum is my chosen outlet. To be honest all this pickpocket business
on this forum tends to annoy me.
Nancy, Everyone has a right to get a little snarky from time to time. Not that i have ever done it :-) I agree with one caveat. There are a lot of first time travelers or first time to a new part of the world and they come here to ask questions. Its a well meaning and honest endeavor for information. The answer to this issue is pretty short and straight forward (you nailed it) but we blow it out of proportion by being so nit picky over ever phrase and comment, trying to prove that I am more right than you or I am more worldly than you or, somehow you are silly to worry about what I don't worry about. So we, the collective RS forum regulars, are the cause of the thing getting way out of hand.
We all know they are out there and they are not that easy to spot. The
best solution appears to be to not make a target of yourself, be aware
of your 'space' when in crowds, keep your valuables in deep storage
(money belt, etc) or leave them in hotel safe, don't carry anything in
a wallet or purse that you aren't prepared to lose.
Exactly!
James, I agree with you completely. When newbies come on and ask questions about pickpockets, I will normally not even bother to answer, I'll let others here do that. In fact I tend to not even read posts whose titles refer to certain subjects (pickpockets is only one of those subjects). But when this thread veered into the whole business about the Roma and that you can spot them based by their attire, and acting as if they are the only pickpockets out there, that's when I got annoyed. The fact is that all Roma are not pickpockets/thieves and all pickpockets/thieves are not Roma.
And I will not be insulted at all if the webmaster deletes my posts come Monday.
Nancy, I don't see anything your have written that is deserving deletion. I rarely agree with you on anything. But I do respect the source of your opinions.
As for the Roma thing, as is pointed out, most often you will never see who hits you. So most often I doubt they will be wearing conspicuous dress no matter what their affiliations. My only first hand experiences and one of about four second hand experiences I am familiar with involve young ladies in Roma dress. I can t undo that; nor do I use it as an excuse to condemn an entire culture, but denying that there is a significant possibility that someone in Roma dress on the Charles Bridge is there for something not exactly legal is sort like putting ones head in the sand.
I also have respected acquaintances in Central Europe who are Roma. In general they are a persecuted class and have suffered as dearly as did the Jews in the Holocaust; something rarely spoken of. I would encourage anyone visiting Budapest to take the time to visit the Roma district of the city. There are some excellent tours that will put tourists face to face with Roma families where tourists with some open mindedness can learn to put things into perspective.
As a group they deserve respect; but every group has its criminals among its members.
Nancy,
I suppose all of us get a bit ornery at times.
"Seems to me you should be able to spot them before they get near you."
I usually can spot them, which is why I likely haven't yet been victimized. I don't believe that all people wearing the attire referred to in this thread are pickpockets, but many that I've encountered have either been badgering me to sign a petition (odd how these local petitions are always written in English), have been trying to "help" me buy Metro tickets (I don't need any help) or have their hand out looking for a "donation" (I find that annoying).
Much of these activities are an organized criminal enterprise, and the people begging on the streets are victims. The majority of the money they "acquire" is sent to criminal kingpins back in Romania. If you're interested in a good view of the situation, have a look at this award winning BBC documentary.....
I also have respected acquaintances in Central Europe who are Roma. In
general they are a persecuted class and have suffered as dearly as did
the Jews in the Holocaust; something rarely spoken of. I would
encourage anyone visiting Budapest to take the time to visit the Roma
district of the city. There are some excellent tours that will put
tourists face to face with Roma families where tourists with some open
mindedness can learn to put things into perspective.
James, I'm so glad you brought that up as many are unaware of what was done to them during that horrific chapter of history. It also helps to read about the human trafficking problem in Europe; some of these people are victims themselves. Just a snippet on that subject:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36338022
I'm not ignoring the fact that the U.S. has a trafficking problem as well but it's not as visible and probably isn't as prevalent. Would have to dig up some statistics...
I'm pretty sure this thread (or some of the posts) will be deleted on Monday, but in the meantime I will make a couple of comments.
--Tom_MN/MrsEB, I don't remember seeing any comments that blame the victim of pickpockets or thieves. I don't think any of the posters here do that. Just because we try to help people not be a target and give them tips to avoid the thieves does not mean we think it's the victims fault. If there were any comments to that effect I must have missed them. If any of my comments gave that impression, I apologize.
--Ken, I was being facetious (or maybe just sarcastic) when I said "you should be able to spot pickpockets by their attire and avoid them". I didn't mean that as a serious comment and I'm sorry if it was misconstrued.
"It's nice to see that some forum members have such a high opinion of their fellow humans, especially those who may be a bit more down on their luck than they."
Sorry, but someone who has decided that a life where theft is their source of income is not someone who is simply down on their luck.
I was down on my luck for a couple years where I was out of a job, evicted from my house, living under a bridge, and begging for spare change at traffic lights. It was not by choice but it was where I was. Having this history, I know what it feels like to be in that position. But I never stole anything from anyone during that time and I never even considered it. Luckily I managed to drag myself out of that condition and do have a good job now with a nice enough income that allows travel to Europe every year when I want. And the thing is, if these pickpockets would simply ask me for money I probably would hand them more than they would get from my pants pocket.
But I never stole anything from anyone during that time and I never
even considered it.
But Mark, you weren't the slave of organized human trafficking where you could be beaten or worse if you didn't return each night with enough to satisfy your handlers. Some of these people were promised jobs and a better life only to find themselves under heavy hand of abusers who threaten them with harm. It's not the same thing.
Kathy does have a point....Telegraph article
I have a strong suspicion that many of the young women and/or children in these pickpocket rings never made a choice to be a thief. On the other hand, I do think that many pickpockets/thieves did make a conscious decision to go into that line of work. It's just not a good idea to make assumptions and generalizations and to condemn them all out of hand, nor is it fair to label them with derogatory terms without knowing their personal situations.
EDIT Mark, I also have strong suspicion that you were an American down on your luck and homeless in America. While, I agree that that, in itself, is a bad situation that none of us would want to find ourselves in, it may not necessarily be comparable to being an immigrant/refugee/unwilling slave from a central or eastern European country trying to survive in a strange country. I congratulate you on being able to raise yourself out of your unfortunate situation.
Nancy,
No offense taken. I don't always know now to read replies on the net. This discussion is good natured and polite, so no problem with me.
I've mentioned this before on the forum, but it may be worth rehashing on this thread for newcomers.
I was pickpocketed in Veliko Trnovo, Bulgaria, in 2015. I was being careless, walking down a street on the edge of the craft district at a time when most people were having lunch somewhere. I had my purse unzipped while I switched from regular glasses to sunglasses. The wallet was lifted by one of two young men whom I had noticed behind me earlier and ignored. I think they saw a not-young woman (obviously a tourist) walking alone, fiddling with glasses as she went in and out of shops, as easy prey.
No, the thieves were not Roma. They could have been my brothers [edit: No, not my brothers, my sons!]. I had assumed they were fellow tourists because of their T-shirt-and-shorts attire and their casual, strolling-down-the-street demeanor, but I later realized that in all the time they were behind me, neither one said a word, which is certainly not typical tourist behavior. So I have no idea whether they were Bulgarian, Albanian, Romanian, or some other nationality. I made sure the police knew they were not Roma when I filed the report. It was sort of sad that every time I mentioned this story to a Bulgarian, the initial assumption was "Roma".
So this is my cautionary tale. If you are inclined to play spot-the-pickpocket, it's best not to go the racial-profiling path. At least not in Veliko Trnovo. My dim-wittedness aside, those guys were quite good (and very, very patient), and I'll bet they hit VT often.
Edited to add: The police in VT took my complaint extremely seriously, even summoning a professional interpreter so that a detailed statement could be taken down and visiting the scene of the theft (looking for surveillance cameras, of which there were none). I was impressed. From their behavior, I deduce that the level of crime in VT is rather low!
Three times in Rome all on my husband, all unbottoning the empty pockets of his cargo pants. Once in Florence, this time my husband's pack. I saw and stopped that attempt. All four events happened within a two week period. As far as I know that's been the only attempts in our travels to London, Amsterdam, Paris, Vienna, Munich, Milan, Prague, York, Edinburgh, Berlin, Brussels, Zurich, and elsewhere. We've been been to Florence and Rome on other occasions without pick pocketing attempts. Small sample sizes lead to anomalous results. Our five European trips are a very small sample. Nonetheless, I think cargo pants must be tempting.
I've mentioned this before, too: I met a Canadian couple in Madrid last year who had recently been on a cruise that visited Crete. While on that island they spent a day with another couple, the male half of which lost a wallet from the pocket of his cargo pants while the four were walking around Chania(?). All parties were puzzled about how it could have happened, but upon reflection they remembered being distracted by a woman who shoved a map in the their faces, and they decided that was probably a distraction technique.
"Safety in numbers" appears not to apply when you're up against professional pickpockets. It's very tempting to say that there are two kinds of travelers: those who've been pickpocketed and those who haven't been yet.
"...shoved a map in their faces...." Exactly.... the only time I was pickpocket in 22 trips since 1971, it was like that by Roma girls in eastern Berlin near Museum Island in 1995, except it was a newspaper used as a distraction while the arm reaches around to lift your billfold effortlessly from the front pocket. They got a couple of DM bills, the amount nowadays would not even pay a parking ticket in SF. I was stupid then since when newspaper was in front of face, I thought it was " aggressive panhandling," ie, thinking American, instead of thinking tactically that the paper could serve as a diversion.
Thinking American is why I didn't do anything while the newspaper was in my face. It wouldn't happen now with the same tactic since I don't use a billfold but a wallet put in horizontally in the front pocket so snug that I can't get it out effortlessly plus that pocket is half-way obstructed by my fanny/waist belt.
I also have respected acquaintances in Central Europe who are Roma. In general they are a persecuted class and have suffered as dearly as did the Jews in the Holocaust; something rarely spoken of.
Oops, I may have misread the above statement and have removed my previous response to give benefit of the doubt.
The way it is written is not in the past tense as stating they suffered the same during the Holocaust. That is true. However, using "have suffered" connotes that they continue to suffer the same way today. That is not true. The Roma today are not treated well but it is no Holocaust.
Wow, I didn't realize that millions of Roma were being put to death strictly because they are Roma. — Actually, they were. Gypsy ghetto in Llodz is probably the best-known episode. (Sorry, FrankII, I also got confused with tenses there)
I do take issue with James's statement that the Soviets "picked up where the Nazi left off", though. It is historically inaccurate. Ethnic policies of the Soviet State may be many things, but Bolshevik integration of Roma is one of the few instances when they actually got it right (see O'Keefe or Melnikova for some academic peer-reviewed literature on the subject).
After years of travel, I do what I can to thwart pickpockets but nothing is 100%.
Most of my stuff is in a moneybelt.
My "day" wallet is either:
1) Very thin and in a front pocket with a rubberband around it;
2) has a ring and it is attached with a Tyny Tools Key Clip Bungee to my belt loop
3) Clips inside my pants waist Lewis & Clark Clip Stash (I just got this and may try it on my next trip.)
For my phone: I attached a Ring Grip to the back of my phone and use the Tyny Tools Key Clip to attach to a belt loop OR If using some type of day bag, put the phone in a pouch/sac and attach it to an "O" ring inside the bag.
None of this is 100% fool proof but if it adds one extra step to the thief's work, it might get them to move onto an easier target. I take these precautions on all of my travels because pickpocketing can happen anywhere.
