Switzerland and North Italy Itinerary Help - First Time European Travelers

Hi Angela,

You of course realize you have 8 (9 if including Zurich) different places for your 8 or 9 nights. Since you'll be traveling every single day, how could you possibly see or visit anyplace or anything?

If you are flying into/out of Zurich, have 8 or 9 days total, please, stick to visiting just Switzerland. I'd allow at least 2 nights for Lucerne and 4 nights for the Berner Oberland (Wengen, Muerren, Lauterbrunnen, etc.) for starters. We spent 4 nights based in Wengen and wished we could have stayed longer. The Berner Oberland is just that beautiful. Depending on the time of day your flight out of Zurich is, you could possibly spend your last night in Lucerne and then train to the airport. No car is needed for a trip to Switzerland.

Paul

These are great destinations, but I doubt you can do them in 8 or 9 days. Whether you drive or take the train, travel consumes time. We have visited many of these places, and I would suggest focusing on the part of the trip you are all most interested in.
For example, you might just make this trip about Switzerland and the Dolomites.
We can highly recommend the Hotel Edelweiss in Murren. In the Dolomites we liked the Hotel Uhrerhof Ortisei - Val Gardena Gröden. For the former we simply used our Eurail Pass and for the latter we rented a car in Bolzano and drove to the isolated (but beautiful) location.
Each of those locations alone require at least two days to experience the views, food and culture. When you add Italy into that mix, it seems like it would be impossible to do your proposed trip in less than three weeks. Use something like Google maps to see how much time is involved in training/driving between each of these locations.
That may help you scale back your itinerary so that you have some quality time in the locations you do choose.
Have fun!

For 8-9 days, choose 3 cities/places.

With a trip like that you might be better off flying into one airport at your starting point and leaving from an end point so you don't have to go back.
A comment on the car- you can get an automatic shift(though usually more money) and in Europe they drive on the left like we do.

Sorry but that is impossible. The circle, if you want to call it that, is way too big. Distances are too great. Not sure you could cover it in twice the time. Get a map. Put some pins in it and I think you will begin to see why it will not work. With only 8 or 9 days stay in Switzerland. One other thought. With a short trip an open jaw flight becomes critcial. It saves time and money. For example, if you want a touch of Italy, fly into Zurich and home from Milan.

I concur with the others! Go to Rome2Rio.com and plug in the legs of your trip to see what the actual travel times would be between each of them. I think you'll soon see that this trip is not possible. 2 - 3 destinations are about all you should try for a trip this short.

Whew, too much for 8-9 days.

You will waste time trying to do a circle, and you will want to stay two days to have the time to enjoy & feel like you were really there - not just a whirlwind of train connections.

•Arrive in Zurich (AM) & take train to Lauterbrunnen (Wengen/Murren) - arrive late afternoon
•Sleep days 1-3 in Wengen/Murren
•Day 4-5 Take train to Stresa (unless you really want to be in Milan)
•Day 6-7 Take train to Verona
•Day 8-9 Take train to wonderful Venice
•Fly out of Venice

I've given you an itinerary that has good & relatively short train travel to maximize your time. You could skip Verona & Venice and go to Cinque Terre and fly back home out of Florence or Pisa, instead.

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so much for the feedback! i really appreciate it.

Milan departure is definitely a great idea so i can keep heading south without turning back...but that way, it seems like Dolomiti is kind of an outlier. I personally had a pretty strong interest in it...would it be feasible to include it? Considering i'm giving up Cinque Terre, Verona/Venice, etc.

Consider----
-Fly into Zurich in the AM (spend day and to Lucerne in the evening)
-Lucerne (spend 2 nights)
-In the AM go to Berner Oberland - Murren/Lauterbrunn/etc. - (spend 3-4 nights)
(en route to Milan, visit Varenna, spend 1 night, to get a small taste of Italy)
-In the AM head to Milan (spend day and fly out)

Does this seem more manageable? I don't think Dolomiti would fit at all.....

Thanks!
angela

Jean, just saw your suggestion - looking into it! thanks.

So here's what i came up with...taking into account arriving and departing from different cities within our price range and reasonable layover time (from Boston):

-Arrive in Zurich (1pm) - spend day and train to Lucerne in the evening
-Arrive in Lucerne at night for dinner (spend 2 nights)
-Arrive in Berner Oberland in moring/lunch (spend 4 nights)
-In the morning leave for Varenna or similar town (suggestions?), arrive in afternoon (spend 1 night)
-Head to Milan in the afternoon (stay 1 night)
-Depart from Milan in the morning

Does this seem more realistic?
I want to add Venice and leave Venice like suggested but seems like there are less flight options from Venice?....

angela,

I'm assuming you're travelling from the U.S. so will have to allow for one flight day in each direction?

Your first Itinerary was FAR too ambitious and didn't allow for travel time between locations. The second version is more realistic so here's one suggestion based on that.....

• D1/N1 - arrive ZRH; collect luggage and take train directly from the airport station directly to Lucerne (about an hour, some direct trains, some with one change at Zürich Hbf). You may be jet lagged so may not get much touring done on arrival day.
• D2/N2 - Lucerne
• D3/N3 - Lucerne
• D4/N1 - Train to Lauterbrunnen Valley (1H:50M direct to Interlaken Ost - add about 20 minutes for the train to Lauterbrunnen plus time to get to whichever town you'll be staying in)
• D5/N2 - Lauterbrunnen Valley
• D6/N3 - Lauterbrunnen Valley
• D7/N1 - Train to Stresa (as short as 2H:09M with one change at Spiez)
• D8/N2 - Stresa
• D9 - Return flight - depending on what time your flight is, you may be able to take a train to Gallarate (about 58 minutes), and then Taxi or Light Rail to Malpensa - that will be easier than going through Milan.

One point to note is that you won't be able to easily get to Varenna "enroute to Milan", as you have to go through Milan to get to Varenna (unless you go to the town of Como and travel by Ferry). Visiting Stresa is a much easier solution, as it's on the way from Switzerland and it's a beautiful town right on Lake Maggiore.

Each of your trips is easily done by train, so there's no reason to consider a car. Train will be faster and more efficient. I'm assuming the "seasoned" travellers in the group are aware of the rules for using trains in Italy (there are some potentially expensive "caveats" to be aware of).

Have you researched transportation to get between the various towns in the Berner Oberland? If you need more information, post another note. For such a short trip with so few rail journeys, buying P-P tickets would probably be the best method. I'm not sure whether one of the Swiss passes would be of any benefit.

Ken - thanks so much for the details!

Yes I'll be flying from/back to Boston. Because I'm not doing a round trip, the nonstop oneways are about a thousand...so i'm resorting to 1-stop trips. For now, i found a flight to Zurich (stop in Iceland) that takes about 9-10 hours - brings me to Zurich at 1pm. And back, i see flights from Linate or Malpensa leaving in the early to late morning, flight time ranging from 13 hours to 30+. Will definitely opp for the shorter one. Also, thank you for noting the difference between the two airports - just mapped it and realized that Linate is in the center of the city.

I have yet to research the transportation between the Oberland towns. Really stupid question but what's the difference between p-p tickets and a Swiss pass? I tried looking up p-p tickets on Google. Definitely have to invest some time into this part, and calculate time hiking up and down from each, but assuming there would be places to stay overnight in the mountains or would you have to make the same trip down the same day?

I would guess P-P tickets means point to point tickets - buying one way or round trip tickets as you need them, rather than investing in a Swiss Pass or a Eurail pass. Just a guess.

When you say the "nonstop one ways," are you looking at two one-way tickets? That's usually much more expensive than using the "Multi-city" option. With multi-city, you would put Boston to Zurich as one leg, and Milan to Boston as the other, and it is all on one ticket. Sometimes the price is high, but usually it's much cheaper than two one-way tickets.

Point to Point makes complete sense. Thanks! And yeah, like Ken mentioned, with so few rail trips and limited days, the Pass is probably going to be overkill...

When i said "Nonstop one ways", i meant direct flights from and back to Boston...Those are certainly more expensive than the ones with a layover! I found a one way direct to Zurich that is as much as the direct roundtrip package, which is insane. I never used the multi-city option - i always looked separately. I will check it out! Thanks!

See http://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains/switzerland-rail-passes to start your comparison of Swiss Travel Passes versus buying tickets as you go. I would be inclined to stay entirely within Switzerland and to consider the Swiss Travel pass for 8 consecutive days at $387 per person, for maximum convenience. Circling back within Switzerland to Zurich doesn't take as much time as going to Italy. There are also shorter or flexipass options for 3 or 4 travel days to spread over a month.

If continuing to Italy, you would definitely buy separate tickets for the Italian portion of your trip, which are pretty cheap; you can buy them in a Swiss train station.

Angela,

Your best bet for flights will be open-jaw or multi-city, even if the cost is slightly more than for return flights to and from a single point. Keep in mind that having to return to your starting point will require both time and money, and especially for such a very short trip you don't really have time to spare. You may wish to speak to a travel agent, as they may know of some good deals from your area. You won't find many international flights using Linate airport, so you'll have much better choices from Malpensa.

Regarding Swiss Passes, you may find it helpful to have a look at the RS Swiss Pass page. Whether a Pass will be cost effective will depend mostly on what touring you plan to do in Switzerland. If you'll be using a lot of the mountain lifts, the Passes provide a discount that can save money. However, you'll need to do some number crunching to determine whether a Pass will work for your situation.

Regarding places to stay in the Berner Oberland, again the touring you want to do will have a bearing on that. You may want to check a local bookstore or library to see if you can find a copy of the RS Switzerland guidebook. That has a good description of the various towns, sights and other details such as hotels, transportation, etc. If you plan on seeing both sides of the valley, Lauterbrunnen makes the best "home base" location as it's central and also a transportation hub. If you only plan on touring the Schilthorn side of the valley, then Mürren is a good location. For touring the Jungfraujoch and that side of the valley, Wengen would be good.

Hi Angela,

We have flown "open jaw" before and it was similar in price to RT. Look for multi city or open jaw on the airline websites. We flew into Frankfurt and out of Munich for nearly the exact same cost as RT to either.

Paul

Angela, The phrase "point to point" tickets is used a lot on this and other travel websites; but is an Americanism, so you will find only limited mention of the term on railway company sites.

95%+ of rail travellers just get a "ticket" from A to B. It is only foreign tourists, and mostly overseas ones, who get passes. You don't call airline tickets "point-to-point", so why is this phrase used for rail tickets?

For times and ticket prices of trains in Switzerland, use the Swiss Federal Railways site: www.sbb.ch
This also has details of the national and regional tourist passes sold by Swiss Federal Railways.
For times and ticket prices of trains in Italy, use the Italian Railways site: www.trenitalia.com

Thanks everyone! We're now looking at multi-city flights. Arriving in zurich and leaving from milan malpensa. And doing some number crunching regarding the rail!

I've been researching grindelwald vs murren vs wengen. Seems like with the 3-4 days we have, 2 would be realistic. I am a little worries about weather because it's unpredictable. Are there any alternatives we could possibly keep in mind given it'll be the first week or June? Luckily it won't be too crowded but hopefully hotels and shops will be open.

angela,

"I've been researching grindelwald vs murren vs wengen."

When choosing a home base, be sure to consider the touring you'll be doing in that area. Grindelwald wouldn't be my first choice, as it's somewhat "distant" from the other locations and will therefore require more time and money in getting around. Another location that's prominently featured in the RS books and TV shows is Gimmelwald, which is a different town (it's just below Mürren).

You may find it helpful to have a look at THIS Map of the area. Although it's not very large or detailed, it will give you an idea of the location of the various towns. The transportation hub in that area is Lauterbrunnen, which is about a 20 minute train ride from Interlaken Ost.

If you have a few minutes to spare, have a look at the RS Berner Oberland episode, as that provides a good idea what the area looks like. The show is a bit "dated" and a few things have changed. For example, the Funicular shown from Lautebrunnen to Grütschalp no longer exists, having been replaced by a Cable Car several years ago.

Chris, FYI, there can be a surprising amount of confusion between the terms "pass" and "ticket," especially for new travelers or those who don't use public transport at home, I guess. Therefore, the extra term "point-to-point" helps to reinforce the distinction. Countless travelers have started conversations with us by saying the either have bought or want to buy a rail pass, when they actually mean a train ticket. Tickets for buses, subways, and other local transport are often one price regardless of destination, so that's another point of difference.

Thanks Laura,
I was just trying to solve the opposite confusion, when travellers can find no reference to "point-to-point" on railway booking sites.
Even what you market as a "pass" is sometimes called a ticket, for example the German Länder Tickets.

Hi All,

You've all been incredibly helpful. This beats Tripadvisor! Thanks so much!

Just wanted to share a slightly more detailed itinerary - think you guys are sick of me already :)

D1 - Boston --> Zurich: explore Zurich a little if we have the energy, which i think we will! Then head to Lucerne (Lucerne overnight)
D2 - Lucerne (Lucerne overnight)
D3 - Continue exploring Lucerne during the day --> Bernese Oberland in the PM (base Lauterbrunnen overnight)
D4 - BO (Lauterbrunnen Valley, Murren or Wengen)
D5 - BO (Lauterbrunnen Valley, Murren or Wengen)
D6 - Interlaken Lake Brienz --> Stresa (Stresa overnight)
D7 - Stresa --> Milan day trip --> Stresa (Stresa overnight)
D8 - Stresa and surrounding towns
D9 - Malpensa Airport head home

Yay? nay?

Regarding the rail tickets...i'm doing this math using this map: http://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains/cost-maps

*Zurich - Lucerne = 25
*Lucerne - Interlaken = 35
*Interlaken/BO/Jung = 120? (Does the 120 include all transportation from Lauterbrunnen and onward? Like if i were to stay 3 nights up there and explore the Valley and Murren, it would cost 120 total? But what about back down to Interlaken? Is that another 120? What about the rail around Lake Brienz - excluded? Ah questions!)
*Then finally to Stresa and Milan...to Spiez = 10. Brig = 40. Domo = 10. Plus the trip into Italy - Stresa...

So, total = 240. which isn't bad i think? Counting 120 once.

Found rail prices within BO!

"Multi-country (Eurail-brand) passes offer the following discounts:
Berner Oberland: 25 percent off trains and lifts above Interlaken (otherwise tickets cost, from Interlaken, about $10 to Lauterbrunnen, $10 to Grindelwald, $15 to Wengen, $200 round-trip to Jungfraujoch; Schilthornbahn cable car otherwise about $105 round-trip from Stechelberg, $80 with early-morning discount)"

angela,

Your most recent Itinerary looks reasonably well sorted. One question though - you indicate "base Lauterbrunnen overnight". Are you planning to only stay one night in Lauterbrunnen and then move to one of the other towns? If that's the case, I wouldn't bother moving. It will be easier to stay in the same place for your entire visit there.

Ken,

I was thinking staying all the BO nights at Lauterbrunnen as a base, then in the morning, explore the Valley, Murren or Wengen - Pick 2 - or 3 if we can fit it in. At night, come back down to Lauterbrunnen. As everyone said Lauterbrunnen is the transportation hub in the middle.

Angela

Angela,
I agree with staying in Lauterbrunnen. While Murren and Wengen are lovely with great vistas, the transportation to get to all parts of the valley starts in Lauterbrunnen. We will stay there again next time, having stayed both in Murren and Lauterbrunnen in the past.

Thanks everyone for their help! :)

Last question I promise...reopening this thread!

We decided to add on an extra day to the itinerary. And we're really interested in seeing Lake Como/Varenna, so we're making Stresa a stopping ground. I'm wondering if this makes sense?

-Interlaken/Lake Brienz (day trip after a night in Lauterbrunnen) --> Stresa (1 night)
-Depart from Stresa --> Milan in the morning or afternoon and spend 1 night in Milan
-Depart from Milan --> Varenna in the morning or afternoon and spend 1 night in Varenna
-Day in Varenna and spend 1 more night in Varenna
-Depart Varenna --> Airport

My question is mainly around order and which airport to choose...my trip back to Boston will have a connecting flight so I don't have a choice there...but I do potentially have a choice of Malpensa or Linate airport...should i go straight from Stresa to Varenna and then come back down to Milan for the last night and choose Linate? I guess Malpensa wouldn't be the best choice here as my last night will either be in Milan or Varenna?

What would you guys do? Thanks again everyone!