Sweden and Germany

Sound like you want to spend time around Frankfurt and then go directly to Berlin. There are ICE connections that make the trip in about 4 hours. Theoretically, you can get Saving Price tickets for these trains for €29 for the first person, €20/ea for the next four. However, these tickets go on sale 92 days in advance and the least expensive ones sell out in hours. Then the price goes up. However, you should still be able to get them for €49/40€ (€89 for two). You can find these offers on the German Rail (Bahn) website. You have lots of time to learn to use the website and to get the advance tickets when they come out. You don't have to buy then for Frankfurt to Berlin, you can get the same price from anywhere in the area (eg Bacharach) and the fare will include trains to get you to Frankfurt Hbf.

Thank you, Lee. Sounds as if this is doable.

Thank you, Lee. Sounds as if this is doable.

Why would you fly into Frankfurt only to go immediately to Berlin, then go all the way back to Frankfurt only to go right to Sweden? Instead, fly right to Berlin (changing planes if necessary), then fly from Berlin to Sweden (should be nonstop to Stockholm or Gothenburg, but would probably involve a connection to other Swedish cities), then back from Sweden to the US. Even if this "costs more," the time and money you will save by going right to where you want to be will be well worth it (unless it's really many hundreds of dollars more, which is hard to imagine). There are plenty of flight options from Berlin now, and these will only increase once new Berlin Brandenburg Airport opens next year. Air Berlin and EasyJet both have a lot of flights from Berlin. EDIT: If Lee's inference is correct, and you want/need to spend time in Frankfurt, ignore at least part of the above. But I still wouldn't stop in Frankfurt twice - that's just a time and money waster. I would go to Frankfurt, take the train to Berlin, then fly to Sweden, then fly home. To book these kinds of tickets, you want "multi-city" on the booking websites (for example, US to Frankfurt and Stockholm to US). Don't try to book two separate one-way tickets, or you will need a second mortgage.

I understand exactly what you are saying, Harold. That route bothers me too. I am a person who does look at the cost (always assuming I will go back), and I wanted just a taste of Germany this time. I hear people say good things about Berlin. We typically take United and that stops either in London or Frankfurt - we've been to England many times (just returned), so I'm thinking this could be our chance to experience a bit of Germany (no cost to stop in Frankfurt and stay for a bit before continuing onto Sweden). As I'm in the beginning phase of this planning, I'm now thinking it might be best to just spend a couple days in Frankfurt and do the Romantic Road. Perhaps that makes more sense?

"As I'm in the beginning phase of this planning, I'm now thinking it might be best to just spend a couple days in Frankfurt and do the Romantic Road. Perhaps that makes more sense?" Berlin is the sort of place where 4-5 days are needed. It makes more sense to me to see what's near Frankfurt; you'll have no trouble filling 5 days there. First stop: Franconia... The Romantic Road lies to the southeast of Frankfurt; it has a flashy name and several worthwhile destinations, but by no means is the entire route a "must-do" since it is something like 230 miles long and bypasses so many of Germany's most interesting places. But 3 days near the northern end of the RR would be nice; Würzburg, Rothenburg (both RR towns,) Bamberg and Nuremberg (would all be worth your attention. Well-preserved Rothenburg is tourist central but worthwhile. Nuremberg is especially good if you have an interest in WW II; Bamberg is a fabulous old-world place you won't forget. From FRA, Würzburg (Residenz Palace) is 1.5 - 2.5 hours by train. All 4 cities are well connected by train service. I'd stay in Würzburg and daytrip to the other places you choose by train; figure a cost of 26€/day using a Bayern Ticket daypass. Second stop: Rhine Valley... A dense collection of castles, old-world villages, and wineries with wonderful scenery. There are great train connections between all the villages; use the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket daypass, 25€ for two, to move about. Boppard, St. Goar, Oberwesel, and Bacharach are all good towns to base in. Figure about 1 hour by direct train from Oberwesel to FRA. With 2 nights, you should have time to tour a castle or two and see a couple villages.

I agree with the posters who recommend dropping Berlin this time. I went to Germany last summer for the first time. I loved Frankfurt and found it to be more like the Germany I imagined than other places I visited. Other towns were significantly damaged in WWII and abound with ugly post-war utilitarian building. The Frankfurt train station is in the heart of the city so it is easy to take day trips. Buedingen is a charming little town with little tourism and a castle. Mainz is very interesting. Berlin is very interesting but not, to my mind, typical of Germany.

This is very helpful! I've already decided after hearing from several of you that I will not do Berlin and will stick to Frankfurt and places around. I will check further into some of the towns you've mentioned - we are very much into WWII and anything historical, plus we want to suck up the German culture as much as we can. Thanks!

One other question: would you rent a car to do the areas outside of Frankfurt? My husband always wants to have a car and not take a train - which is best in this situation? And, is it best to not stay in Frankfurt - I think Wurzberg was mentioned. (I use a special site to determine miles driving in England - is there a special site for Germany?)

Hi, On WW II and "anything historical"....if you want to see a town spared by the Anglo-American strategic bombing offensive, go to Frankfurt-Höchst. Personally, I would have gone to Berlin by train, but logistically I can see the validity of your decision to save Berlin for next time.

"would you rent a car to do the areas outside of Frankfurt? My husband always wants to have a car and not take a train - which is best in this situation?" In the Rhine region and in Franconia (northern Romantic road area), the areas I've suggested, I see no compelling reason to pay rental fees, $8/gal gas, and parking fees (even at your hotels in some places) when train travel is as inexpensive and convenient as it is in these areas. There's good reason to deal with city traffic, shady rental agents, or insurance matters - the train gets you there at the promised time for a good price you know in advance. If you had some highly unusual itinerary in mind, or if you were sold on accommodations located on some distant mountaintop, or if you were handicapped, or if you brought so much luggage that you couldn't manage a short walk with it or getting it to the train platform, then maybe a car would be worth considering. Using trains requires a bit more planning; you'll want to pick hotels that let you reach the station easily, and you have to consider your luggage when you're moving around. You can read up on the regional train passes for the Rhine area here; these allow you to hop on and off trains almost at will: http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets-and-fares/ticket-offers/rheinland-pfalz-ticket/ http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets-and-fares/ticket-offers/leisure-ticket/ Franconia area: http://www.munich-touristinfo.de/Bavaria-Ticket.htm http://www.vgn.de/tickets/?Edition=en&p=1 That said, husbands set on driving seldom give in.