Should I bring a camera for my first trip to Europe?

For most people a phone is is adequate, but you're correct in saying a good quality camera will produce better quality pictures than even the latest iPhone. I'm no expert, but I believe this is due to the fact that a camera has a much larger sensor than a phone. A phone uses software to create the images sometimes resulting in an artificial look. So it comes down to how much you want to spend, and how important photo quality is to you. Given you enjoy the art of photography, I'd say take a camera.

"nobody uses a camera anymore"

Your friend is clearly not my kids' age. Cameras are having a revival among younger people. Gen Z is going retro and carrying cameras: https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/cameras/mirrorless-cameras/is-nikon-cool-again-korean-gen-zers-make-up-over-61-percent-of-the-big-ns-domestic-mirrorless-sales

"You’ll look like a tourist.”

You're going to look, and sound, like a tourist anyway. Which is absolutely fine.

We typically use both camera and IPhone. But it just depends on where we are at the time. The iPhone 17 pro is great for in town pictures but you might want to use something like the Sony RX 100 Vii. It is small, which is very convenient, but with a great zoom. Great for long distances shots.

I bring my Sony camera on all my vacations. I find it easier to use compared to my phone and it has more options. Plus I am trying to become a better photographer with a camera so it supports that goal too.

Forget about what your friend says and just think about which type of photography you want to do.

A good compact camera will be as pricey as a new phone with great camera capability. Are you the type of person that likes to share photos with family/friends as you travel? If so, a phone camera may suit you better.

I love photography and it's like a hobby but I am not taking pictures for others. I used to carry my Cannon DSLR which was a drag. Then I tripped with it during a trip (no pun intended), the internal lenses got cracked, so I gave up. Instead of fixing or getting a new one, I invested on a new 15 iPhone pro which has satisfied my photography itch while traveling. I don't carry a laptop with me to process my photos while traveling, so a phone camera has worked well. I take lots of photos, and I like to share a few with my family while I am traveling. I spend my evenings processing/editing photos on my phone (mostly deleting duplicates, minor cropping. I'm against removing people/objects from the background - it's part of the story of the travel!).

But I do miss the features and manual control of a proper camera. I've considered buying a good compact camera, but I always get pushed away due to cost - I may just upgrade my phone every few years. I don't travel that often and I don't really take many photos outside of travel. And then few years will go by and that camera may not be as good anymore.

A friend (who is a professional photographer) told me I need a class to maximize the potential of my phone's camera for the type of photography I do. I have few more months to decide if I will invest on a new compact camera or upgrade my iPhone. Too bad my trip is before the usual release of new iPhones.

Bring whatever you like that you will enjoy. I see the comment on the forum often about not wanting to look like a tourist. I truly don't understand why anyone who is a tourist is concerned that some random person on the street will notice they are a tourist. First of all I wonder who we all think is looking at us. Don't give power to a hypothetical person's possible inner thoughts about your camera, keep you from bringing your camera.

Be polite to others, respectful of your surrounding and environment, have some knowledge about the cultures you will experience, and enjoy your travels!

I don't think being a tourist is relevant, BUT... Not to be an old fogey which I happen to be, but I am at the stage of throwing away almost all of my SLR super-camera photos from the last decades because I haven't looked at any of them in years - and I know deep in my heart no one else will. Glorious Alpine Valleys in the moment will be lost as to where/when they are unless you label them immediately, which is a feature I like in smartphones. Pick the camera option that what will give you pleasure now. Whatever you bring remember that if you don't edit your collection relatively quickly you will never get around to it and the gems will be lost within the meh. Have fun.

My husband and I each bring a camera. I sometimes will take a picture on both my phone and my camera, but usually, I just use the camera. Its easier for editing, and my camera takes better pictures. I've long since resigned myself that no matter what I do, I will look like a tourist.

I have a Pentax K-1. It is large, bulky, with 3 lenses. My wife forbade me to take it on the last trip, and she was right.

Instead, I purchased a Canon GX-7. This camera is barely larger than a pack of cigarettes. It easily fits in the pocket. I downloaded photos each night to my computer, but the card will hold many and getting a second card can provide insurance. The camera was about $900.

You must charge the battery every night.

Pro-tip: Take a picture of city name signs to remember where you are.

I discovered a fact about the camera near the end of our trip which would have improved my pictures - the camera keeps the exposure when the button is half-pressed. That means that you can focus on the bottom of the statue, get the exposure right, and then take the whole picture and not have it overwhelmed by the sky to under-expose the actual statue.

my SLR super-camera photos from the last decades

Yes, this is a problem. I have 6 trips to finish up. Luckily our last trip is almost ready to make a souvenier book.

Whatever you bring remember that if you don't edit your collection relatively quickly you will never get around to it and the gems will be lost within the meh. Have fun.

Yes, so very true. This is why I took not one, but 2 computers for our 2 month stay in France. One was a compact computer with 2 screens. I processed all photos (at least labeling them with a little homemade program of my own) while on down days. When we returned, I only had about 5 days of 65 to process. Now we can proceed to the book.

It's a tough question, although I think your friend is incorrect - lots of people use "real" cameras, and who cares if you "look like a tourist" - I mean, you are one! I have an iPhone 17 and it takes an amazing photo. The zoom is crazy good. Love it. So I don't always take the "good" camera - in my case, a Panasonic LUMIX FZ300. On the cons list - it's heavy, and not always as quick to grab, focus and shoot even with autofocus. It's better if you have time, and can set your shot, and honestly, the iPhone is better in low-light. BUT in the pro column - you cannot beat the resolution on this type of "real" camera, so if you think you will enlarge and print any photos for framing, it's really the way to go. I have never regretted taking it - on safari, to Egypt, and will take it on an upcoming trip to Galapagos. So it kinda depends what kind of touring you are doing...do you have time to take the good shot? or do you need to snap and go? or both?

I bring my older DSLR on our trips. My wife brings her Android phone. We both are very happy.

If you want to share pictures while you are traveling that might influence your decision. Phones are perfect in this regard. Newer cameras have Wi-Fi capabilities, but I don’t know the full process to share them with friends or on social media.

Question: are there any “affordable” digital cameras that take better pictures than an iPhone ? Something cheap enough that if it’s lost or broken then it’s not a huge deal. I’m thinking something in the $200 -$300 range.

Doesn't matter what you are using to take a picture, you will still look like a tourist, which is what you are.

Take the gear that takes the kind of pictures you want

Hi OP PH,
There's this poster over on the Fodors forum who calls themself 'zebec'. I once met him in a bar--complete jerk. But he did create these interesting, photo-dense TRs. They are a quirky combo of music, humor, tips and oft art-led imagery. Apparently, his old Nikon of 19 years just died on him during a festival back in February, an incident that occurred in the French Riviera. He just this week replaced it with a Nikon Z6II.
Anyway, I have gained permission to link below one of his most recent TRs, a looooooooong one that covers their London trip. There are others (China, Jordan, Calabria, Vancouver Island, the Aveyron, the Pyrenees and many more).

I am done. The end.

https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/back-to-brick-london-tr-w-fotos-1715655/

Actually, as a hobby photographer and member of a local photo club, I can say that here in Switzerland plenty of people carry cameras and are not tourists. I can’t imagine that it is any different elsewhere. Scenic locations naturally attract photographers — foreign and local alike. But you’ve already said that you are not overly concerned about how others perceive you, which is a good mindset to have.

Since you are someone who enjoys the art of photography, this seems like the perfect opportunity to incorporate that passion into your holiday. If you don’t bring a camera along, my guess is that there will be times when you will miss it.

I have a Canon PowerShot SX740, which I bought primarily for the 40x zoom, but I mainly use it for pictures of animals (in nature and zoos) without disturbing them too much. I never take it on city breaks. I guess it could also be useful for architectural details, but that is not my interest.

Find out what kind of pictures you want and take what you need. Never mind other people.

I've been a "serious amateur" photographer for 60 years and for me being used to pro-grade bodies and lenses an iphone as a camera is absolute rubbish but I understand why it has supplanted the so-called point-and-shoot for the casual snapshooter.

That said I have no need for the latest-and-greatest. My 2 Leica bodies are now 13 yrs old and basically digital versions of the 2 film bodies I used for 40 yrs prior (and still in perfect working order) along with the same kit of 4 lenses.

I disagree with your friend and I believe she's wrong about "nobody uses a camera anymore". However, it is true that many people these days (perhaps the majority) just use their phones for travel photos, as they're light, usually always accessible and the quality is good enough for most people.

I think it's important to determine what type of photos you want to remember your travels with, the best equipment to get the photos, and how much time & effort you're willing to put into learning to use the equipment. The sensors used in cameras are considerably larger than those used in phones, so they can capture more detail. Most phones these days use some type of "computational processing" for photos, where the software determines how to process the photo to get the best result. In many cases the results are reasonably good, and there are apps that allow the images to be "fine tuned".

I've also been a "serious amateur" photographer since about the mid '60s, and I typically travel with both a dSLR and a P&S, as well as my iPhone. I've found that the dSLR gives me a wider choice of settings in terms of aperture, shutter speed, depth-of-field, choice of lens or whatever, and allows me to get the results I want very quickly. I use the larger camera for most photos and use the P&S to get snapshots of things like restaurant menus, museum guides, or whatever. It's also a 'backup" in case I have problems with the dSLR (which has happened).

I'd suggest that you check out local camera stores that have very knowledgeable sales staff, and have a look at different types of cameras that may fit your needs. A travel P&S with long zoom would be a good fit for many situations, so it's not necessary to haul around a large dSLR camera. You could look at models from Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic or others. Try them out in the store to determine which one you're most comfortable with (FWIW, I use mostly Canon gear). Don't forget to buy extra memory cards, lens cleaner, a spare battery, etc. If you normally use a small cross-body bag or whatever when out sightseeing, you could store the accessories in that.

One important point (and something that Rick has mentioned recently), is that mobile phones have increasingly been a target of thieves lately. If you're in a crowded location and not paying attention when you have the phone in your hand, you could lose it very quickly. I tend to leave the cameras in the hotel room when I'm out dining or touring in the evening, and use the phone for occasional pictures when I don't have access to the larger cameras. DO NOT ever leave your phone or other valuables sitting on the table in a restaurant, even if you're sitting right there.

There's lots of information online about "travel cameras", and this is one example from a store that specializes in cameras - https://blog.henrys.com/your-ultimate-guide-to-compact-cameras-for-travel/ .

One final point..... whatever approach you decide on, be sure you learn how to use the camera before you leave on your trip.

Thank you for all of the wonderful comments and advice. This is incredibly helpful as I continue planning for the trip.

I still take my camera but do take some photos with my iPhone.

My camera takes better photos, especially when I use its telephone feature.

Another reason that I take my camera is that if I only used my phone, the battery would not last a full day's touring.

I think it depends on whether you want to carry something heavy around with you or enjoy the freedom of the iPhone camera.

Carrying a camera is a pain, but if you want to take great pictures, it is worth doing. The lense options that are available for a good quality camera are reason enough to use one.
I travel using both my cell camera and also my Cannon. I don't care if I look like a tourist, and especially when I am being one. Generally I find myself taking a bunch of snaps with the phone camera and then setting up a few top-notch images using my camera.
That said, the current cell cameras take quite excellent images effortlessly. If you take a bit of time framing the images, these can be all you need. Just remember to turn the phone. The world is panoramic, not vertical.

Phone cameras are better these days now you have a choice of lenses built in. For years the standard lens on a smartphone was far too wide and distorted to do anything with.

The last couple of times I was away (Scotland and Catalonia) I didn't bother taking a camera, just the phone. I've been used to carrying cameras since I was in my early teens before that. It's not a big deal to travel with an SLR (or mirrorless these days) camera for me. My main travel camera for years was a Zorki-4, a Soviet interpretation of a classic Leica rangefinder. I didn't care if it got bashed around and dropped and I never had a lens cap or case for it. I can't get a filter on the lens because of the big dent, but it still works.

If I were to buy myself a travel camera right now, I'd be looking at used Fujifilm X100. The current model is X100VI, but I'd be looking lower down the cost range at older models. It's a rangefinder like my old Zorki and has a fixed focal length lens. I'm used to travelling only with a 50mm lens on 35mm and full frame cameras. The Fujifilm cameras all have wonderful colour right in their jpegs, but you can shoot RAW with them too. The way they operate like film cameras appeals to me. Having a fixed focal length lens that isn't super wide, flare-y and distorted like a smartphone is good. Just having one lens makes you take the picture you can get with it, which is a good thing sometimes.

I would not care for people who are interested in what other people are thinking. And today people with smartphones in their hand look like tourists - but who cares.

98% of people do not even know what photography is or how it works. They do snapshots which is OK for their purpose - most pictures taken are not viewed again after taking them. Unfortunately most people do not know the smallest tricks which allow better snapshots also with just a smartphone, e. g. when taking a photo of people with a sunset behind - and the answer is not HDR.

Smartphone cameras do not have a chance against TZ (travel zoom) cameras if it comes to zoom over 8x because their optical zoom is obviously to small in such flat phones cases. So, landscape photo travelers shall minimum take this one.

Sport or animal photography are other cases where smartphones reach their limits quickly.

More complex cameras with changeable lenses create a huge difference in picture quality if experienced amateurs or even professionals do the photo. If you are not able to recognize a difference in resulting photos the problem is not the camera.

I've visited Europe annually (or more) for the past 30 years. I initially brought my SLR along with 15 rolls of film. It was a bit of a hassle as it was heavy and I had to be aware of it at all times - keeping it in my daypack. I brought a light, full size tripod which I loved for long night exposures and have some excellent shots. In time, digital improved and I switched to decent point-and-shoots which were much easier to travel with. The past 10 years or so, I only use my Galaxy phone which lets me do 99% of what I could do previously, plus I've been able to get a lot more shots since I can get access to it much faster that a big SLR. I travel lighter and I worry less. Just my thoughts.

I downloaded Open Camera for Android recently. I haven't used it much yet but it seems good. It has focus peeking, zebras, a good histogram, overlays with rule of thirds guides etc. all the things you'd expect on screen on a pro camera. Reasonable exposure control using ISO and shutter speed (phone cameras are all fixed f2.8 aperture I think?). Loads of features for photos and videos over and above the standard camera app. I haven't gone any further than taking pictures of the cat in the living room as yet though.

As someone stated above cameras are somewhat in vogue for younger people. Our daughter who is in her mid 20’s asked for a camera for Christmas a couple of years ago. Daughter and the camera have now been to Europe three times, Costa Rica earlier this year and will return to France, Croatia and Italy next month. She uses her phone too, but enjoys dabbling in photography.

When I leave my country/home and travel somewhere else, I am a tourist. When I speak, even if I know the language of the country in which I am located, I am easily identified as a tourist. If I travel outside of my region but stay in the states, due to my accent I am probably still identified as a tourist. There is nothing wrong with being a tourist; what is wrong is being rude, loud, disrespectful and inconsiderate. You can travel with a camera if that makes you happy, simply be respectful and considerate when taking pictures. Photography is a wonderful hobby.

My advice is take a good point & shoot camera the pictures will be much better than from a phone. My recommendation is a Panasonic Lumix with a Leica lens and as big a zoom ratio as your budget allows. My current weapon of choice is a ZS70 (no doubt out of date) that goes from true wide angle to long telephoto zip quick.

One other thing I take with me is my i-pad and every night I download the days pictures as a back up. I still look at them frequently on the i-pad just a reminder of great times gone by.

One other thing I take with me is my i-pad and every night I download the days pictures as a back up. I still look at them frequently on the i-pad just a reminder of great times gone by.

I also do this. I put them on my PC which I bring along, and also put them in a cloud drive.

I've taken cameras for decades. If carrying a camera makes me look like a tourist, then I look like a tourist at home. But living in a summer tourist area, I see most people use their phones, but not the ones who take it more seriously or enjoy it, IMO. So, do I really or will I really look like a tourist? Whatever. I don't care. (I even eat in tourist restaurants at home sometimes...oh the horror! LOL). I digress...as usual.

I love playing with my cameras. For examples: In Sweden, I took my Canon and just a 50 mm lens. That was perfect for Sweden and it kept things pretty light. I do dislike carrying a large camera all the time on a trip. I learned that in Greece. It was the same Canon, had a lovely grip, with a heavy 15 to 85 mm lens. Very heavy kit for me. Nonetheless I am so glad I took it to Greece . Perfect for beautiful Greece and landscape photos. Heavy for hiking up hills. LOL. A tour member said she'd been wondering if it was worth my carrying the heavy camera around, but after she saw some of my photos on line she indicated it was.

I went on the RS PHOF tour last year and took only my small Canon G1X Mark III. I didn't use it much because the tour was not conducive to actually take 'photographs', even with this little camera. I love this little camera! My husband has a little fujifilm camera, which is wonderful as well...great colors. This was a great trip, but was not inspiring for photography. IMO. I took this same camera on my Camino in Spain and it was perfect, wonderful photos; I balanced weight with my wants for that trip.

I have a Canon R7 with a 100 to 400 mm lens that I use for birds, boats in the bay, etc. Heavy, but I'm thinking some dramatic landscape trips on my own where I might bring this along as well, maybe with the lens I used in Greece, but not carry it around unless I know I will use it that morning or late in the day.

My point is to consider where you are going, what types of photographs you think may excite you and decide what you want to bring to attain those photos, while balancing the weights. For me, phones are just not much fun. I want to create the photos, not have the computer in the iPhone do it. Give me settings that I can see and play with, so I have my light kit and various degrees of heavy for my use.

What camera do you have? Mine is a Panasonic Lumix that I bought in 2013. It's a digital "SLR-like" camera with a view-finder (really helpful in bright light) and enough bells and whistles to adjust for many situations. For years I used it and got great pix all over Europe and Asia. About 4 years ago I got tired of carrying the extra weight around and began using my iPhone and then a newer Samsung with a better camera. It's good enough for memories but the photos aren't as good as with the camera. However, I am considering taking the camera with me on my next European jaunt.

Another consideration is how much memory your iPhone has.

I don’t care about the tourist part, but even the latest iPhone doesn’t take a picture as good as a camera. That, of course, leads me to consider buying a new camera. I’m feeling rather confused what to do. I do enjoy the art of photography and I’ll be in London, Paris, and then a week on the French Riviera. I’m guessing I will have some amazing photo ops along the way.

If you enjoy taking photographs, I don't think you need a new camera specifically for travel, as whatever you currently are using seemingly already checks the boxes for you. If you don't actually like the camera you have/use currently, while the excuse of "first trip to Europe" is a fine justification, it's not really necessary - your money, your choice.

IOW - buy the new camera if you want the new camera and buy it on your own time so you have it as early as reasonable and can use in your photography at home and later abroad. A camera can be enjoyed year around :)

Of course, as someone who stopped taking a camera on vacation well before COVID, I can't say my phone is demonstrably worse than any of my stand-alone cameras at taking 99+% of the photographs I take these days. And, as I get older, I also like having less stuff to tote around. If I was truly a "photographer" and on a trip focusing on getting great photos, that would be a different story, but my vacations are now fully documented in photos in my pocket (on my phone) as well as nearly instantly available (and backed up) on the cloud and any connected computer or tablet of mine. Easy peasy and streamlined to let me focus on enjoying my time in the moment - but not at odds with if you get joy from the photography process. That is, if you love the act of taking, framing, editing, sorting, tweaking, developing, etc photographs, then your tool should match (slightly exceed) your skills, and a nice, new, and powerful modern camera might be a great buy.

As a pretty serious amateur photographer, I used to lug an SLR and various lenses to Europe and other destinations.

I'm done with that. My iPhone 17 takes fantastic vacation pics and not adding a camera backpack makes my vacation so much easier.

So, my reason isn't trying to fit in as a local. That's a fool's errand and who cares anyway? My motivation is packing light so I can be nimble and hassle-free on my trips.

I would much rather have a camera in my hands pegging me as a “tourist” than an Iphone marking me as an “Instagramer”.

While I use my iPhone a ton for pictures on trips, I always bring along a good camera in case I stumble on a spectacular scene. Many of these shots have been blown up or used as a base for creating some nice art that decorate my home. These would not be possible with a phone camera and small sensor.

For 90% of people I know and travel with, a phone is all they need. Mainly because they cannot take a good picture no matter what is in their hands. They cannot be bothered to learn good technique or editing because they simply don't enjoy taking shots.

A small minority of folks would benefit from a nice travel compact as Ken’s excellent post above described.

An even smaller minority would use the capabilities of a serious camera and lens kit. Honestly, nearly everyone I talk to who is carrying a big camera setup is shooting on Auto mode exclusively, utilizing only about 5% of their camera’s functions.

Currently, my favorite travel setup is a Sony A7Cii with a single 40mm lens. I can get 75% of the daytime street and landscape shots I need and the full frame sensor give me more than enough detail to work with in editing. Combined with my Iphone for some evening indoor and fast casual shots, this meets about 95% of my goals.

For 90% of people I know and travel with, a phone is all they need. Mainly because they cannot take a good picture no matter what is in their hands.

You've just described me to a "T." My wife, conversely, takes terrific pictures with her iPhone that put most people's SLR images to shame. It helps that she was a professional photographer in earlier life. All the vacation photos we've held onto are ones she's taken.

I am a serious amateur photographer.
I no longer carry abroad DSLR cameras and equipment.
I do carry my iPhone and a snap camera hand held platform to ease use while providing additional battery life.
I do carry three I phone lens attachments, all which fit in my pockets. To be just I often carry a small backpack whose primary purpose is carrying a water bottle, lite snacks, hand wipes and whatever my wife believes is important. The lens filters are for: video cinematic, wide angle and maximum short focus (think flowers). All are less than two inches wide by one inch in depth.
I down load several easy to utilize in camera applications designed for enhancing videography, filtering light levels and photography.
Tips:
1. focus upon learning image composition.
2. Strive to eliminate the "I was here images" (you in front of a destination). Take close up images of details of a destination capturing your fancy. Such images help weave and tell the story of what you experienced.
3. Take videos for movement and sound, photos for stationary objects.

I can easily take 1,000 images, but I ALWAYS cull down to TEN images per destination. Yep, you read right.............. 10 images. Consider what will you do with more than 10 images? Whom will you share these images?

Regardless of your camera choice I hope you are blessed with a journey that creates wonderful travel memories.

I do carry three I phone lens attachments,

Steven - Which brand of lens do you use and which type of phone do you have?
I have been considering extra lens kit my iPhone 15 pro but I may be upgrading my phone to 17pro first before moving to attachment lens.

I will pm you with equipment preferences.

Nothing wrong with taking a camera, I see them all the time in Europe. But here is some very important advice for a first-timer in Europe. When you have that camera in your hands, focusing on that great shot, where is your wallet and where is your passport? And where is your cell phone? Pickpockets target tourists, especially tourists that are temporarily distracted or have both hands occupied with a camera. Secure your valuables so you can focus on that great camera shot. A good pickpocket can take something out of your pocket without you feeling a thing. I have never had my pocket picked, but I know several people- intelligent, experienced travelers- who have had their pocket picked and that can ruin your trip.

I know this is a little off topic, but I have this image of a first-time traveler to Europe with a camera and it's so easy to see what can happen.

So for those unaware and above jokes aside, I am also the Fodors alter-ego poster 'zebec'. Was just going through some old travel memorabilia and it hit me---on my first trip to Europe (i.e. Eng/Scot) I did not bring any camera. LOL! The contrast between that young traveler and the guy typing this is as wide as an ocean.
OP PH, we just snowbirded in the French Riviera. Fotos ops abound in such places as:

-old Antibes inc. its famed Cap hike
-Haut Cagnes
-Valbonne market
-Biot
-Festivals in Nice, Menton, Mandelieu-Napoule (sp?)
-Grasse
-Tourettes
-Peillon
-the Le Cannet hamlet directly above Cannes
-the Iles de Lerin esp. Ile Honorat

yours in imagery
I am done. The end

@Steven
I have an iPhone 17e. Very bummed about that because I purposely went to upgrade my old iPhone 10XR (?) to get a better camera on my phone. I did not even know there are lenses for phones that can increase the quality of pictures. Would you mind PM me more information on that?

gregglamarsh - I appreciate all of your input. Really. All of this has been so helpful. I was briefly a photojournalist about 30 years ago so my knowledge of what today's cameras can do is extraordinarily limited. Heck, I can't even remember the apertures, etc., from that time.

The Other Marty - I am a catastrophizer so I've been reading about all the tricks pickpockets are using to get phones/money, etc. I've probably gone a bit overboard with under-clothing security items, straps that cannot be cut, chains to secure luggage while on trains, etc., but my hope is to be traveling internationally on a yearly basis (after this inaugural trip is done) so the investment will be worth it.

Does anyone recommend dealers of refurbished cameras? One of the links from an earlier post showed a couple of possible options but they did not have them in stock. To be honest, I really do not want to pay more than a few hundred max. Of course, if that is going to have me end up with junk, then perhaps I just accept the phone or dare to ask my husband (and I'd really rather not - long story) to use his camera.

dealers of refurbished cameras

Check out backmarket.com.

I have excellent success with shiftcam products and customer service.
https://www.shiftcam.com/
I use the pro grip for stability and ease of use, plus I like having hand wrap to secure my phone.
https://www.shiftcam.com/products/progrip-starter
I own the directors kit
https://www.shiftcam.com/products/v-series-directors-kit
I have the 17 pro
If you knew how much money I have spent on cameras and equipment over the past 50 years you might comprehend how I justify the expense for these items.
Good luck!

Does anyone recommend dealers of refurbished cameras?

These are my trusted stockists. Though occasionally some items are factory-refurbs, the majority are secondhand units which have been checked for proper operation and serviced if necessary, then sold with a brief no-questions-asked return-period followed by a lengthy warranty period.

USA: keh(dot)com

-Have bought tonnes from them going back to the mid-90s with nary a bad experience. Located near Atlanata, they do ship int'l but some policy differs from USA sales so be sure to read the FAQs before buying. Generally, things have arrived in better condition than expected based on grading (their bargain "BGN" grade often equates to what many other resellers would call "mint minus"). Downside is web photos are stock images, not of the actual unit being offered, but again there's a 14-day no-hassle return privilege.

Europe (and USA): mpb(dot)com
-Newer firm than KEH at least in the USA, they've locations on both sides of the pond, but all merchandise is listed on the same website, with same shipping and policies regardless. Prices seem to be a tad lower than KEH, and MPB shows pictures of actual items rather than stock photos.