Seven countries - 16 days - 1st time to Europe

Dear advo. I hope all your expectations are met! I suspect this will be the first of many trips to Europe. Goodbye forever to the Carribbean!

And I believe I read one of your posts elsewhere indicating the kids are musicians? Will they be performing?

In Rothenburg, be sure to pay the supplement in the church to see the famous altar piece. It is in a separate area upstairs in the back of the church. It is beautiful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._James%27s_Church,_Rothenburg_ob_der_Tauber

I enjoyed the Nightwatchman's Tour. I know some think it is cheesy but he does make some good historical points. The kids will love it.

Just so you know, you won't go in Buckingham Palace, you'll just see it from the outside. It is open to the public just in August and Sept.

:-) Goodbye Caribbean (although it sure sounds good on a cold and snowy day like today) ;). And, yes! One of the major highlights of the entire adventure is that we will get to be proud parents/aunt/uncle seeing our kids perform concerts in some amazing locations - London (Victoria Embankment); Paris - along the Seine or in a Park (not sure yet), and at town squares or other locations in the smaller towns. The students had to be recommended by their band instructors, received a letter from the Governor, and will learn all their musical pieces three days before flying to London!!! It's quite an honor and sure to be a very special family memory!!!

My initial thought... no way. You're significantly underestimating transit times and you haven't planned for the bad weather that will inevitably hit you in the Alps at some point. Cut this trip in half, then we can talk a little more.

Tom,
I assume, with 4 months to go they have already booked a coach and the coach operator has agreed to the timetable.
By coach it will be slower than by train, especially the first leg (London Paris) which is 2½ hours by train and 5+ hours by road (via Channel Tunnel)

Tom/Chris - it's a set itinerary with the tour company. We go where they go & I'm thinking it will be a fast-paced trip - the 17-20 year olds will probably do better than us (45-50). But, it does sound like they try to pack in the most they can in a very busy 16/17 days. Nice thing - we just follow along and don't have to do much individual planning - which would be pretty overwhelming I think for our first trip. Maybe the next time we can do 3-4 places in the same time frame.

Oh - we take a ferry across the English Channel when we go to Paris. White Cliffs of Dover is one more of the sites we will see.

advocatecare,
Yes, the sight of the receding white cliffs of Dover at the stern and Cap Gris Nez in front of the ferry (or vice versa in the opposite direction). Always marked the start of a 'foreign' holiday when I was younger. Nowadays I take the Eurostar, and the only glimpse of the sea is a brief one just before/after the tunnel mouth at the Folkestone end.
But, it will add another 1-1½ hours to the London-Paris leg (versus the coach going through the tunnel). It will be a full day travelling.

Enjoy your trip.

Tom's right, it would be much too rushed a trip if you were doing it on your own, and you may find the pace too fast, but it seems like a good introduction to Europe. A day trip from Austria to Venice seems awfully ambitious to me. Hopefully you'll want to return to some of these places on your own or on more leisurely tours. Paris and London could each fill a week or two.

My only advice would be try to slow down a bit when the schedule allows you, smell the roses, stop for a coffee or glass of wine. Assume you will return. Give the kids some time for their own pursuits. Have a wonderful time -- the kids are lucky to be doing this with you!

Nice thoughts, Dick. I agree that we (adults) will probably be exhausted at the end of this whirlwind!! We do hope to make exploring Europe something we do more of after this trip - I imagine after my husband retires. For our day to Venice, I think some of the sites will be the views we pass getting there - the Dolomites, edge of Adriatic Sea, then back to Seefeld at dusk through the Eastern Alps via Brenner Pass (from trip description) - although I can't visualize any of it for real. Can't wait to be there and try to take it all in!

Oops, I missed the part that you booked a coach trip... forget what I said then.

I hope you have a great trip...

That "day trip" from Seefeld to Venice is going to be a killer. It is 4 hours each way (I've done it - one way, twice} in a car. The bus has to stop for driver rest every 2 hours by European law.

I sure hope you get back well after dusk or you won't see much of Venice, which would be a crying shame.

I'll be a real kick for you to see the kids playing...

Please post a trip report when you get back.

FWIW: since you're going to be captive to the bus and its schedule, I'd suggest one small thing if your hotels are located centrally (they may not be). Get up early. Go for an early morning stroll. See the cities before they're crowded. Some of my best Europe moments (and photos) have been before the tourists get up. You can nap on the bus to offset the early hours (the old adage "sleep when you're dead" applies to all my trips to Europe, and given your short time frame and long itinerary, yours as well).

Nigel, thank you for the info about the travel time to Venice and the mandatory bus stops every two hours! Good to know!! I've been able to find a few videos on YouTube from groups that have done this trip in the past and one focused on the various foods and rest stops along the way. In Venice, it looked like they had most of the day and it showed the group lined up for brats/sausages at an outdoor stand back in Seefeld (or close by) and it was very dark out. It was fun to see the dad video tape his daughter and some of their group as they tried every chocolate item they could :-)

Stephen - yes, I will post a report after we return! In fact, I'm trying to plan out how I will do it already:) I love reading the trip reports and seeing the pictures. Just not sure the best way to do it. I'll keep reading the trip reports and taking notes. This will be a memory I want to preserve for us and for the family back home. I think I will put the music performances on YouTube, and then pictures and narrative in a blog or some other web-based diary to capture those. I do feel a little obsessed and have to watch myself so this is not the ONLY thing I talk about to family & friends ;)

Thanks for the tips CL - I don't sleep well on planes or in vehicles so I hope that I can crash for good sleep in the hotels each night! I like the early morning get out and walk around advice. I don't think we are centrally located in London or Paris, but we will be in smaller hotels that are more centrally located once we get to Switzerland, Austria & Germany. But I will venture out each morning before breakfast (or after the first breakfast) and see what's around us. I am the family photographer (not professional by any means!!) so I'm sure I will have tons of pics and videos to go through when we are on the bus, plane, and when we get home. I have to remind myself to stop and smell the roses though and put the camera down.

Well, when the bus stops at the AutoGrille (sort of like an Interstate highway plaza with fuel/restaurant/convenience store) for a break the kids will be thrilled at the chocolate selections there!

For your long bus segments, you may want to take a small pillow with you. I used just a travel pillow I picked up at Bed Bath and Beyond for my RS BOE tour. Use a brightly colored pillowcase so it catches your attention.

The kids' concerts will be wonderful! You probably won't have time, but if you can see a concert at St Chapelle in Paris, do so. A small group usually does 2 a night, with one being Vivaldi's Four Seasons and a couple more selections. The acoustics in there are fabulous.

Also...when you are journaling, start making a list of places you want to go back to for a more in depth look. Rick Steves says to assume you will return!

Thanks, Pam, the AutoGrills sound very different than what we are used to for a 'pit stop' ;). Good info about the travel pillow - I always have the 20% off coupons so I'll have to make a trip the BB&B. I will make a note of the St. Chapelle concert. I am not sure yet how the evenings will go yet. One evening has the river boat ride. Maybe our last night will have some free time options. The hotel we stay at in Paris is not anywhere near the city center - so I'm sure a return trip to Paris will be on my list!!

Oh yes, very different that what I was used to for an Interstate pit stop! The food in some of them is really very good. You always have to wind around and exit thru the store area, so plenty of opportunity for impulse buys. Also, know that there is often a charge for the toilets so start hoarding your euro coins (well, and Swiss Francs for your Swiss portion) so you can get thru the turnstile. Sometimes some bathroom turnstiles will give you a coupon for 50 euro cents off your purchase.

Attending the Sainte-Chapelle concert is a wonderful experience but don't expect anything other than Vivaldi's Four Seasons. It has ALWAYS been the Four Seasons in my experience and not terribly well executed. But the venue is marvellous.

Pay toilets - will be a new experience! But ever thought the 'pit stops' would have those!! Good to know! We will be using British pounds, Euro & Swiss Francs on this voyage. I found an app for mt phone that is a currency converter. I've got those three saved as favorites so I can look at it often and see what the rates are. The saying take twice as much money as you think sounds like good advice.

In Paris, I think the band will play in Luxumberg (?) Gardens at the band shell. In London, it's on the Thames River @ Victoria Embankment; at Seefeld at the Olympic Games stage (from 70's). The choir group sings in churches/cathedrals throughout the trip, including Wesley Chapel in London.

I forgot to mention, the kids have the opportunity to earn three college credits on the trip - they have to write an essay about the experience. We pay for the credits but they transfer to most colleges. I have heard that Dauchau is often an essay topic, and we will keep that in mind, but we've also talked about her doing a report on her family lineage. My husbands grandmothers both came to US as children - one from Switzerland near the area we will be in, and the other from Germany, about 2-1/2 hours from the Rothenburg area.

See also Rick's article Bus Tour Self Defense.

Thanks, RS Laura!! Good info to read! Now, to look for that Rolex in Switzerland... Never thought of that ;)

Found some info from a group that did our tour last year - the day trip to Venice starts at 4am. Ouch!! And returns to Seefeld about 11pm. That's gonna be a looooong day!!! :)

Well, that may be one trip where you will sleep on the bus. I would bet everyone slept all the way back to Seefeld. :)

the day trip to Venice starts at 4am. Ouch!! And returns to Seefeld
about 11pm. That's gonna be a looooong day!!! :)

ooh ... thought that might be a tough one. Are the kids performing in Venice? Or the next day?

Nancy - time to get that travel pillow for sure ;)

Nigel - they play the afternoon before Venice (choir is in the evening though); the morning after Venice looks to be early as well, we will pack up & head to Germany, stopping at Dachau for a sobering, but educational, tour; and then into Rothenburg. Day 2 in Rothenburg is the final afternoon concert (I believe in the town square). Then the next morning, another early start to head to Frankfort to fly home. So - a break between concerts, but, wow!! :)

I seriously doubt that the kids will have any problem with that schedule. It's the adults along that will suffer. Good luck.:)

I know, Nancy, this is gonna be fun (but tiring) for the grown ups!! I hope we do have the chance to slow down and smell the roses, enjoy cafés, and window shopping while the kids are with their chaperones!! As long as we make it to the bus on time (when we leave countries), I think we can venture out and do our own thing when we want. But many of the places we visit that cost $ were paid as part if the package price so we should probably go see those. My husband is not entirely sure he's going to be up for 3-hours of theater in London (we will see Les Mis with my nephew), but I told him a little culture won't kill him ;). Our daughter is going to see Phantom with one of her schoolmates. I did chose Les Mis for us because I don't think he could have handled THAT much culture LOL!! ;) Vive la France!

advocatecare, I have an unrelated question. If I remember correctly, this is a (mostly) high school group going...? And it's with a tour company, I believe? Would you share the name of the company? I like to collect them for my files ;-)

Just a general, but very important, tip - EVERYONE should be completely packed at least two days before departure. Make sure that things you still need to use (hair dryers, toiletries, etc.) will fit in your bag and keep them somewhere together for the few days proceeding. Don't forget airline tickets, passports, etc. Make an effort to get plenty of sleep during the week before departure, too. You DON'T want to start this trip frazzled and at each other's throats! I know you've traveled before, but it always bears repeating.

Have a great time, and let us know how it went!

Just two points. You mentioned Chateau du Chillon, which is on Lake Geneva. Nice to visit if you're in the vicinity, but not worth making a special trip. You did say something about being in northern Switzerland, didn't you? Also, in the advice about packing, the poster mentioned hair dryers. Every place we've stayed in the last ten years or so, provided them. No need for the extra weight and space taking. You can probably even check on line or e-mail your lodgings to be sure.

Hi Eileen - just saw your question as I enjoyed reading all the great comments I received back in Feb. - the past three months have flown by!! We are traveling with Voyageurs Int'l (based in Colorado) as part of the Kansas Ambassadors of Music tour. Voyageurs Int'l has been organizing these trips for student musicians for forty years now, and one of the music shop owners we know here went back in the 70's when the students stayed in private homes along the way vs. the hotels now.

The kids (and any performing adults) have a three-day clinic before we leave to learn all of their music pieces. The college campus is near our home so that's good for us, but the kids traveling here from around the state and Kansas City area need to be packed by the time camp starts as we fly out of KC the morning after their performance for family and friends staying home.

I'm not looking forward to the 20-hour travel days to and from - but am very excited about everything in between! More info than you probably needed - but there you go!! ;)

Rosalyn, we are staying in Crans-Montana in Switzerland. We will travel to Zermatt to see the Matterhorn one day and the day trip to Venice is where I believe we travel by Lake Chillon but I can't remember now if we go there - I'm awaiting the final itinerary (sigh). I am not planning on taking a hair dryer or straightener - I have a mid-length bob style now that can dry easily and be pulled back if I want, which I usually do. My husband is clinging onto a few last hairs (haha!) and our daughter has figured out many cute and easy hairstyles for her long and very thick hair. However, we are traveling with a lot of teens, so I'm preparing myself for several stories of fried hair dryers and straighteners - hopefully they won't short out all the hotels electricity!! :)

Crans-Montana to Venice as a day trip??? It's at best a 5 1/2 hour drive minimum to get there and equally long to return...why don't you spend the night?? I can't think of anything worse...makes me shed tears to think of a day like that. I hope that isn't what the tour has planned and that I am misunderstanding when you say you are taking a day-trip to Venice.

"and the day trip to Venice is where I believe we travel by Lake Chillon"

Crans-Montana to Venice is NOT going to be a day trip, as it's about six to seven hours each way by train, and at least a six hour drive each way.

Anita and Ken - thank you for your tears!! We are doing this because we are going with TEENAGERS and they apparently don't need any sleep!! I could have the locations messed up - I need to see the actual itinerary (soon, I hope!). It might be Austria to Venice - but nonetheless, it's going to be a very long day from all that I've read!! I can update when I get the final details.

I pulled the summary itinerary and we go to Venice from Seefeld, Austria. Still a very long day from what I've read here. But hopefully we can rest on the bus or just live on adrenaline!!

Hi,

If your bus ride to Venice from Seefeld in the Tirol is a direct ride, that's a big advantage over the train, where one or two transfers are required, even though the bus takes six plus hours. . I wouldn't have any problems with taking that bus. If the teenagers don't dillydally, are ready to move when they're supposed to, and aren't whiners, you'll do fine.

There were no "tears" involved in my last reply. I just wanted to make sure you were aware that a day trip on that route was not a realistic possibility. Travel from Seefeld to Venice may not be much quicker. Your group will have to consider whether the long travel times are worth the short time you'll have to actually "see" Venice.

Even with teenagers, good luck!