Selfies: psychological handicap or other reason?

There seems to be some basic human impulse to record "I was here." Or "I was there." Prior to the Selfie era, you can see it in ancient graffiti in Latin or other languages, and in many families' travel snapshots taken at scenic places where the whole family lines up with a waterfall or famous monument in the background.

First World Problem. It's a peaceful activity that makes people smile, and enhances ones trip...what's the big deal?

First world problem?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-48011113

Would like to dive deeper, more like "selfie ergo sum".

Never taken a selfie in my life. I have taken thousands of photos traveling in 78 countries. I am 71 years old and focus on taking the best photo of the subject. I don't need to see myself in the photo.

There seems to be some basic human impulse to criticize the harmless activities of others, but are just seen by some as being low class when compared to their own supposed status in society.

For as long as man has had the means to memorialize themselves, they've taken every advantage of it.

Ancient peoples, separated by many thousands of miles and who could not conceive of the others even existing, left behind the most real and personal symbols of themselves their capacity for art allowed at the time - stencils of their own hands on cave walls. Such paintings were made in entirely different and distinct societies, tens of thousands of years ago, and have been found in France, Spain, Argentina, Indonesia, and many other places across the globe.

Many of the artists we recognize and appreciate as being the masters of their day - indeed, among the greatest artists to have ever lived - repeatedly used the tools that enabled expression, creation, and reproduction to present images of themselves in their works. Leonardo Da Vinci's self portrait in red chalk. The face of Nicodemus in The Deposition being Michelangelo's own. Caravaggio's David with the Head of Goliath, which is in fact the head of Caravaggio. When we think of Van Gogh, the image that likely comes to mind is the one he painted of himself and that is now in the Musée d'Orsay. We know what Rembrandt looked like through much of his life because he regularly painted himself throughout it. At the Prado in Madrid, see Velasquez himself in Las Meninas, and Goya himself in Charles IV of Spain and His Family.

Hippolyte Bayard and Robert Cornelius had to sit perfectly still for around 15 minutes for their early self portrait photos, taken almost as soon as the means to practically capture and actually retain a photograph came in to existence.

Now, I'm not saying your everyday selfie taker is a modern day Da Vinci, or shares a pedestal with the earliest pioneers of photography. As a species, however, we've gone out of our way to create and preserve images of ourselves by every means through which we've been able to do it - spitting dye over our hands to leave stencils on cave walls, carving ourselves in to ivory and stone, painting ourselves, recording our voices, photographing ourselves, and filming ourselves.

Even cameras have evolved to allow us to more easily do what we'd already decided we wanted to do with them. Timers came to be, presumably to allow the owner of the camera to also be a subject of the picture. Tripods let us set up pictures and videos we could then be in. The first camera phones and smartphones eventually had additional cameras built in to them, to make selfie-taking (and FaceTiming and Skyping) much easier.

We see so many selfies being taken simply because it's so easy to take them. Now, more than ever before, we're surrounded by people who have high-quality cameras at the ready and on them at all times. Further, each of those people are able to quickly and easily take as many pictures as they want, without going through endless rolls of film or the hassle of getting them all developed - point, click, done (maybe quickly and easily touch it up and edit it a bit for good measure). This selfie phenomenon we're seeing says less about any generation being self-obsessed or shameless, and more about technology - capable cameras on phones, and countless ways to share those pictures - enabling behavior we'd have seen decades ago had the means existed to engage in it. While I might be a bit too old or self-conscious to fully embrace participating in any selfie craze myself, I'm hardly patting myself on the back for simply being born at a time that made it something I had to get used to, rather than something I could take for granted.

As an aside, I suspect the friends that follow my Instagram are as weirded out by the endless stream of picture after picture after picture of my dogs sleeping as I am by their selfies! We're both just making the most of the technology at our disposal!

No one complained when van Gogh did one selfie after another.

This need to be constantly putting others down for choices that are different than ones own, there is the psychological handicap.

For as long as man has had the means to memorialize themselves,
they've taken every advantage of it.

I was tempted to cut and paste your entire post. Well said. It's only Monday but I'm ready to vote it as the best post of the week. I'm 55 years old and don't take a lot of selfies, but my wife and I do take some when we're looking to add a bit of 'personal' personality to a photo.

At least selfie takers aren't bothering others to take their photos, which usually blocks up a pathway. Some people I know seem to be in nearly every trip photo they take, even before selfies. Whatever.

First World Problem. It's a peaceful activity that makes people smile, and enhances ones trip...what's the big deal?

Hear, hear! I don't take selfies other than once for a piss take but I certainly don't look down on people who do.

Just saw a short video clip of Selfie Museum in Budapest which is something between strange and disgusting to me.

Surely disgusting is a bit strong? Or is there a sense of 'lost in translation' in your sentence?

As someone who HATES having her picture taken (I look awful, eyes closed, extra chin, shiny face, you name it), I do not understand people who willingly have their photos taken and displayed. Just my 2 cents.

Anytime someone makes a selfie post all the Baby Boomers get up in arms, like their parents did when they listened to Rock-N-Roll. It's a generational thing along with a big wave of things that are changing because of Millennials. We didn't grow up with a camera in our pocket (with great depth of field) that lends itself to taking one's own picture without a tripod. One of my favorite travel pictures is a selfie of me and the wife at a table in front of Les Deux Magots with the sign over our shoulder. The same picture without us in it wouldn't be very interesting. If you want to share your photos with others the most interesting ones will include a person, usually yourself. That most photos now are shared on social media adds another layer to the motivation to post pictures and again, the more interesting ones will have you in it. So either embrace the new medium or be like your parents.

Cynthia, A selfie allows you to find your best light and angle and control what pictures of you people will see.

Thanks to all for reading and contributing so far.

A lot of interesting views covering a certain range.

Surely disgusting is a bit strong?

I was really thinking of this wording but finally I can stand behind the word especially in the extreme cases of posting only things from yourself the whole day. This over-extroverted exhibitionist as well as narcissistic opinion of truths (instead of perception) really keeps me on distance.

For as long as man has had the means to memorialize themselves,
they've taken every advantage of it.

I do not share that view from a historical aspect. Therefore I raised that question because I do not see that as natural human behaviour, so I guess on an "epigenetic failure" - in earlier times of kings and aristocracy - which is now reaching the top with social media with all these little princes and queens.

... some basic human impulse to criticize the harmless activities of others,...... Not totally harmless. I think the total this year is up to eight deaths from selfies and I think CO can claim four.

“The same picture (of Les Deux Magots ) without us in it would not be very interesting”

It would not be very interesting to you, but it may be to others.

It's a generational thing

It most definitely is NOT a generational thing.

Prior to selfie sticks and cameras in phones, people would get pictures of themselves in interesting places by asking some trustworthy-looking stranger to take a picture for them with their camera.

Try looking at a photo album from 50-60 years ago and you'll see that this is how it was done back then.

As I’ve mentioned before, I don’t want pictures of me at historic sights, much rather have a picture of the sight itself.

But, out at a pub with friends? That’s when I want the selfies.

Regarding selfies, for something a little lighthearted for those who enjoy Jimmy Kimmel, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm0Is7zqzt8

Maybe it helps to separate two groups / behaviour categories of people.

People who make a snap or let others take a picture of them at a sight to create a memory for your own. And of course if friends ask for pictures of your vacation you also show this. At the end this picture finds its place in a personal photo album or in a folder on any storage device.

The second group of selfie-makers have the only intention to publish pictures of tehmselves on Social Media with the whole world.

I was asking about the second group / behaviour category.

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Alfred Hitchcock showed a little bit of that selfie behaviour by his over a dozen cameo roles in his own movies.

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To the interesting point of self-pictures from painters: On one hand it is a real challenge to paint a picture of yourself what is by far more challenging than painting another person. On the other hand I think that this can be some kind or way of personal development. Also in some therapies patients are asked to paint a picture of themselves or of their situation.

Selfies are literally just the ability to take the usual vacation photos without forcing some innocent stranger to take your picture for you because now we have the technology for forward facing cameras. That's literally it.

Say what you will, but the fun kinds of shots that young people take today when traveling beat yet another mediocre landscape photograph that's been taken a million times before. That's what postcards are for!

Apparently in some cultures, your acquaintances don't believe you were there unless your face is implanted in front of the sight. In other more self-absorbed cultures\s, if you think you're really cute/good looking, I guess you want to have your face on every pic.

Somebody mentioned Van Gogh, those weren't really selfies, he didn't plant his face in front of an attraction--in art history those are called self-portraits, something totally different than selfies.

Disclaimer: I didn't watch the video clip linked in the post.

But I feel that I can still have an opinion on the subject (for what it's worth).

There is more than one kind of selfie taker. Nothing wrong with taking a selfie to memorialize a visit to a sight/event or a visit with friends, especially if there's no one else handy to take the photo. It's amazing that we have the ability to take a photo of ourselves and actually see what it's going to look like without waiting until we return home to have it developed. And we can delete it immediately and take another if it is unsatisfactory. That's a big step forward.

The other kind of selfie taker is one who zips from sight to sight, snaps a selfie, and moves on without actually seeing or visiting the sight in question. They aren't there to experience the sights on their travels, they are there to brag to their friends and/or 'followers' that "I was here", kind of like thumbing their noses at those not able to travel to those places. As far as I'm concerned this selfie taker is nothing but a narcissist. And, unfortunately, the social media sites like fb, instagram, twitter, etc just encourage the manifestation of this personality disorder.

I have no problem with people taking selfies as long as that activity does not interfere with others' enjoyment of sight/event. I do have a problem with people sticking selfie sticks or large tablets up in the air to take their selfies to the detriment of others.

Well, people take portraits of themselves all the time, whether they do it, or someone else. Vacation photos are as old as time, you take them or others, no difference. I guess you could say the same with Graduation or Wedding photos, yes, documenting an event, but basically a selfie, at least in intent (I was here!).

For that matter, even taking a picture without yourself in it is no different (Oh, sorry, except for you Artiste's out there, you really are special!) you are just stating "I was there" or documenting a memory.

Bottom line, no different than decades of people. As long as you don't inconvenience others or damage surroundings take all the pics you want.

I love the gorilla and caretaker selfie!

Van Gogh did so many selfies that I'm pretty sure he was considered a failed influencer back in the day. If he would have had Instagram maybe he wouldn't have been so depressed. If he was on Tinder he probably wouldn't have cut off his ear.

While I can understand the frustration aimed at those who do selfies “for the ‘gram,” I am hesitant to paint selfie-takers with a wide brush and say all selfies are bad. If I didn’t take selfies, I would have no pictures of me with my kids. A lot of times, it’s just me and them out for the day, so if I want to capture a shot of the three of us together, I’m taking a selfie.

Allison, I am with you. I even have a selfie stick so I can get the whole gang in there (5 adult kids!). I don't have a lot going on but I am very photogenic and I have to work with my strengths, so snap away. The years go by so fast you have to memorialize the special moments. I can look at a picture of myself in Rome and remember what I did before that, after that, what was around the corner and that one picture can jog my memory of something that I may have otherwise forgotten.

While I can understand the frustration aimed at those who do selfies
“for the ‘gram,”

Why?

I take photos. Sometimes I think I am a photographer, othertimes not.

In looking at pictures from old trips, I find many many pictures of buildings, mountains, flowers, ducks, trees, fountains. After 30 years, I think "WHY did I take that?"

But if my wife, children, siblings, parents, or friends are in the picture, then it is a record of an event. Yes, some of my photos are at the level of National Geographic, maybe 1 in 1000.

So I will continue to take photos with myself, wife, and others in those photos. What I DO object to is the intrusive, self-absorbed selfie taker who disrupts others. Luckily, such persons are unusual.

I am not a fan of taking selfies, and while I generally don't care what others do it can be annoying when you're trying to get a photo and must wait while someone takes an overly long time composing just.the.right.shot….15 times.

For all the social media haters out there, a question.

Didn't you grow up with aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, grandparents, etc, who, when you got together, would have a stack of photos from their trip, of their new baby, or their pets? These were some of my favorite moments in life--their sharing their adventures and life with me. This is what sharing on social media is at its best. I wish I could see photos over coffee or lunch with everyone I love, but I can't. But I can keep up with them.

And with the Internet, I can see just about anywhere in the world photographed beautifully. Uncle Dave could take really great landscape shots, but the shots I wanted to see was of my Aunt Betty laughing or smiling with him. I want to see my friend's and family's faces in place both exotic and mundane.

Rude people will be rude, haters gonna hate, and complainers will complain. Have some fun, y'all!

When my mother was still alive and before we had smart phones... she'd look at my photos and always ask how come there were no photos with me in them. Now every so often I will snap a selfie and send it to my sisters to let them see me wherever I am (a nod to my mom) but mostly still most photos do not have me in them. I always say "I know what I look like" .

Oh and BIG LIKE "This need to be constantly putting others down for choices that are different than ones own, there is the psychological handicap."

MarkK from Berlin does clarify what he mean a few posts up, which I do appreciate as I agreed with others that taking selfies in and of itself is not a big deal and harmless. The posting of the selfies and the seeking of the "likes" on social media, however, is having a detrimental effect on people's well being and self esteem. I am actually more put off by the title of this post and the implication that mental illness should be looked down upon or that there is something "disgusting" with people who struggle with psychological disorders (perhaps also lost in translation).

...because I can take a better selfie of me and my husband than another person can of us with our camera. Some people do NOT know how to frame pictures!

Just to add another possible view - again not focussing that I share a picture of me with my family.

Conclusion of study by LMU Professor Sarah Dieffenbach was showing the so called "Selfie Paradox: Nobody Seems to Like Them Yet Everyone Has Reasons to Take Them. An Exploration of Psychological Functions of Selfies in Self-Presentation"

The present study showed, self-presentation may be a central
factor for the attractiveness of selfies but at the same time
is downplayed in self-reports. While many people are contributing to
the success of selfies, only few declare true commitment. In
the end, however, the combination of these two factors,
an opportunity for self-presentation without an obvious revelation of
self-presentational needs, may also be part of the secret
oftheir success. What we here called the selfie paradox and
selfie bias could also be a key factor for their popularity.
Forming a light-weight possibility for self-presentation, that
allows people to strategically adjust and experiment with the
impression they make on others, but still in a playful and somewhat
ambiguous manner, that is even interpreted as self-irony (at
least by the selfie-takers themselves). Clever experimental studies
will surely shed further light onthe exact motivations behind selfies.
But in daily life, one’s specific motivations for taking a selfie
usually remain uncovered. Others, and possibly even oneself, can
never have full and final insight into what motivates taking a
selfie, and this might actually be what attracts people. In this
sense, the present research also adds to a deeper understanding of
success factors for social media ingeneral. In the end it might be
all about fulfilling basic human needs (here: popularity,
self-expression) in a way that feels good for people, does not reveal
too much about deeper motivations and allows them to keep a positive
self-view and image to others.

After my mother died, my father and I went through all their slides. I’m sure many people here remember slides. Anyway. Almost none of the scenery pictures my dad could identify, but, pictures where one or the other were in he knew. He remembered what they were doing, where they were, etc which sparked other stories. Since then we take pictures of sights with and without people. We also find when looking back we remember more when the pics include a person.

PS I watched the video and the museum looked like fun. Since children can’t play outside by themselves anymore and they seem to need eyes on them at all times, it looks like a fun place. Maybe if it didn’t have the title Museum you wouldn’t be so turned off.

Yes, absolutely. My trips from 1973 to 1989 were those where I took a ton of slides using the 35 mm film of various speeds, much cheaper to develop.

I do not think anyone has yet mentioned, it takes the risk out of having to hand one's camera to a stranger to ask for a photo. Remember when forums like this would give the tips of: Ask a couple with children in tow. Do not trust a single person who looks like they may take your camera and run. and on and on and on.

Taking a selfie lets you control your own device and it also saves the hassle of having to ask a stranger to take yet another photo (for various reasons...someone's eyes were closed, not smiling correctly, didn't get the background you wanted, etc.

As long as selfie-takers are causing no harm to you or others, no harm done.

It is a way for the people to remember the joy they experienced in life, and we can all use more joy in our lives.

Have to agree with many of the above...a selfie is just another way to compose/take a photo. So long as you aren't disturbing others (whacking folks/causing them to have to suddenly duck when using a selfie-stick, for example), who cares? "Real" photographers can be equally annoying--I'm looking at you Mr/Ms tripod-user-in-broad-daylight, ever so slowly setting up, blocking everyone else's view.

Nearly no photographer would do photos at "broad daylight" :-)

Tip: never forget to enforce flash when doing selfie against day- or sunlight.

Nearly no photographer would do photos at "broad daylight" :-)

Indeed, and one of the reasons for the quotes around the word Real :-)

Fully agree.

Pictures are more interesting with a family member of friend in it, imo. We often ask others to take our picture and then gladly reciprocate. But we try to be considerate of others and not hog a space for a pic for more than a few brief seconds. Some people seem to think they're posing for their presidential portrait. Remember, folks, you're not the only person in the world.

My mom complains about me not being in enough of the pictures I send her from my trips. So I originally started taking selfies to appease her. I have found that selfies are very potent at reinvoking the emotions at the time they were taken. My favorites include my husband, dog, and I. I also enjoy looking at my friends’ selfies and seeing how happy they are.

I suppose one could also ask, what is the “mental illness” or “psychological handicap” that leads people to create internet posts that deliberately share their condescending opinion of others? What for? Why?

I suppose one could also ask, what is the “mental illness” or
“psychological handicap” that leads people to create internet posts
that deliberately share their condescending opinion of others? What
for? Why?

On that vein:

"Im the expert and they are making a mistake not to listen to me"
"I have traveled around the world with nothing but 8kg of luggage and you are just an inexperienced novice if you cant do the same"
"I understand how to travel, so I only ride the train"
"You are wrong to exchange money before you leave"
"True 'Travelers' never fly first class"
"If you knew how to travel you wouldnt need a guide"
"Im not a tourist, I am a traveler"
"Only the inexperienced tourist goes to the famous tourist sights"

there has to be more.....

But, jamesE, no one is so blatantly superior and condescending. It is just implied. By many of us.

Good list, James, hits the spot.

On number one pertaining to a mistake, my answer to the interlocutor is, " I hope I'm not being obscure in making that mistake you are claiming."

My S10+ has 5 cameras and 2 of those are front facing. So i use them:)

I was married for 16 years with one child - 1983 - 1999 - even though I was into photography, at that time one just didn't take a photo of yourself. Now years later, when I look at the photos, it saddens me that I am hardly in any of them. I was always on the other side - there are a thousand of my son and hundreds of my ex-husband but no Sarah - makes me kind of sad. So I like selfies!

To me it's always more interesting to have a family member or friend in a picture with, say, the Eiffel Tower. If it's just the tower, well heck, I can get a much better picture off the internet. With someone in the pic, it's unique.

Hasn't it been that way since the invention of the camera? Back in the early 20th century people were taking pics of Big Ben with great-great grandpa in the photo. Nothing new about that.

Sarah,
I hear you. I am in hardly any photos from past years because I took them. So I do not scoff at selfies. But I try to be considerate of others and cognizant of my surroundings so I get my shot then I’m out of there.

I am an avid amateur photographer. Nature, landscapes, buildings, animals, you name it. Preferably without any people in the pictures.

And yes, I admit it: I am one of those who laughs at those people who are constantly taking pictures of themselves.

And I know exactly that when I am old and sitting in my retirement home, browsing through my photo albums, the only pictures I am going to care about are the pictures with my beloved ones (and me) in them. All those nature, landscapes, buildings, animals aren't going to matter to me in the least.

Another very strange Instagrammer selfie tourism:
https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1169079197433847808

Sorry, but selfies have moved into the "my selfie should interfere with everyone else's enjoyment' and I am over them. No, your friends don't care to see you in front of EVERYTHING you saw (trust me, they just quit reading your social media posts).

An occasional picture is fine, if the ONLY thing you saw of the Mona Lisa was your smiling face in front of it, you really can do this much cheaper. Just stay home and photo shop yourself in front of everything!