Second trip to Europe: France vs. Italy (or both!) in 13 Days

Hi Bobby. I don't know about walking and bike tours, but I can recommend some towns in Italy that I really liked. I'm the kind of traveler who can't get enough art, medieval monasteries, and churches, but I also like these towns because they're kind of off the beaten path.

• Ravenna (Byzantine churches with beautiful mosaics)

• Lucca (still has its medieval city gate; and you can take a tour of Puccini's house - not my area of interest but one of the people I traveled with LOVED opera)

• Padua (St. Anthony's Church has relics of the preacher on display in a huge ornate reliquary)

Other towns I've been to but wasn't as passionate about include Verona (2,000-year-old arena; and the famous balcony where people like to say that Juliet talked to Romeo); Pistoia; Pisa (Leaning Tower - duh!); and Bologna (the ancient university was cool, and other people on this message board have taken food tours or visited the markets)

I've been to Paris but hated it, and the only other place I've been in France is the town of Chartres (again, medieval cathedral), which I would recommend - it's only an hour train ride from Paris

There's a lot of ways you could slice this, but 13 days is not a whole lot of time.

Given your sensible outlook, i.e. that you are going to return, I would go for logistical efficiency.

Paris-Provence-Nice would fit the bill, and cover two of your bases, if you can fly home from Nice. I'd get a car in Provence.

Paris-Chamonix-Nice is also possible, but more of a stretch (with more time in transit and less on the ground), plus you'd miss Provence.

Similarly Paris - Berner Oberland - Venice, though technically possible if you can fly home from Venice, entails lots of travel.

In Italy, an itinerary that goes from Venice to the Amalfi Coast without stopping is challenging, which is why I am focusing on France. But you can probably come up with something.

Wine and bike tours available in Provence (and Burgundy) in season, also self-guided tours are very easy there.

Just remember that 13 days is not a lot of time.

Thanks for the advice! If we do decide to focus on France, would it make any sense to NOT go to Paris, and focus more on the southern region? We really do want to go to Paris again, BUT, we have been there, and can always include Paris in the future if/when we go to London.

I hate that we only have 13 days, but we just have limited time to take off from work, unfortunately.

I am glad to see that your first trip to Paris didn't wind up with your hating it because if that had been the result, I would say for this second trip you're planning that it's time to go back to Paris-- the place you hated the first time-- to see if you come to the same conclusion.

I can well understand you really hate having only 13 days over there...I would too. Since I am partial to Paris, I would say go there, but Florence and Venice are absolutely lovely too.

Bobby, you certainly will not hear from me that Paris or anyplace else is mandatory.

It does have some advantages, though, that make it hard to avoid sometimes. It's the rail hub, for one thing. And it is of course a grand charming place near two major airports.

You could fly into Zurich, which is handy to the Berner Oberland, or Geneva, which is near Chamonix, and work your way south, flying home from Nice or Marseilles. Probably easier to do that from Chamonix, but it's a long trip in any case. Or reverse that itinerary.

It is perfectly feasible to start in Burgundy, especially if you can fly into Paris early in the day. A but of a shuffle but you can get into Paris and take the train to Beaune in time for lunch. You can rent bikes there to explore the wine villages, and Lyon (if you like) and Provence are easy train rides; from there it's 3 hours to Nice by train.

I mention Burgundy though you did not, mostly because it is pretty and enroute and profoundly French, but it's also rural and perhaps not what you are seeking. An all-Mediterranean itinerary is possible, sticking to Provence and the Cote D'Azure. Lyon is convenient to that if you are interested in that city.

I would like to put in a plug for a slightly different style of travel than you seem to be used to, namely to rent a car for select parts of your trip and explore the countryside a little in, for instance, Provence or Beaune.

When you are ready to move on you can either drive to your next destination or return the car and take the train. There are even rail-auto deals.

This would be qualitatively different, though if all you really want to see are cities and the Alps a car won't do you much good there.

I don't really know what you ought to do, but I hope this puts some ideas in your head and that you have a wonderful trip.

Thanks, Adam and others, for the helpful advice. Even though I did not mention seeing the countryside in my original post, it does sound intriguing to me. We frequently rent cars during our U.S. vacations to allow us to 'get in with the locals' a little closer, and to see a different perspective. For example, driving Highway 1 from L.A. to San Francisco, and beyond to the Mendocino area and Northern California was a recent favorite. So was driving through Oregon, Washington, and the Vancouver area. Doing so allowed us to get off the beaten path sometimes, and see things 'behind the scenes.'

Seeing the French countryside definitely sounds worthwhile - we are open to adding more variety to our trip, and not just seeing the common 'touristy' spots.

Something that has been holding us back from driving in a foreign country is unfamiliarity with traffic laws - but I suppose the best way to learn is to just jump in and do it!

Thanks again,
Bobby

Bobby--Rick has all sorts of great info about renting a car in Europe including various rental agencies (be sure to check them all out to figure out the best rates),the various traffic signs/laws and what countries require an international driver's permit. Also it's very expensive to rent in one country and drop-off in another so sometimes it's worth it to drive to the border, take a train to the next town, then rent another car. On the Graffiti you'll also find the woes of people who drove in the ZTL in many Italian cities. I've heard that driving in those zones can be very expensive! (We don't drive in Italy!) Enjoy your trip planning!

We were able to work out a 10 day trip to Paris/Bruges/Venice last april. (Our 1st time to europe.) And 10 days Italy in the fall.

We backied in by 1st getting a flight to Paris and returning home from Venice. Then figuring out how to get between the two.

Flights between Paris and Venice at the time were expensive and often had a next day arrival. The return charge on a rental car was just too much. The train was an option, but we also looked at nearby cities. There was a $99/person flight between Brussels and Venice. Is it Belgian Air? or Brussels Air? (Definately no frills. So we decided to take the train to Bruges, spend 2 nights then catch the plane in Brussels for a direct flight to Venice. (The return trip home from Venice involved a transfer in Frankfurt.) That was our 1st trip to europe.

That option may still be available.

Bruges is really interesting. But when sandwiched between Paris and Venice. Is really quiet.

We opted for the champagne cruise in Paris and singing gondola in Venice. Really enjoyed it.

We did a trip to Italy last November. Flying in through Rome, You can buy your train tickets at the airport to whatever Italian city you want to go to. (We opted for Florence)

We're heading back to europe in Oct. Flying in through Nuremberg. Going down the Rhine and Mosel. Then ending up in Paris for a few days before returning home.

Good Luck

Paris, French Riviera, Venice and the Amalfi Coast sound good to me. Maybe in 2011...