Schengen visa questions

"Does the Schengen clock start when I arrive in Frankfrut/Amsterdam on May 1, or when I leave Seattle on April 30."

Answer: It starts when you first arrive in the Schengen zone, which includes Frankfurt and Amsterdam.

"Do I need to keep some sort of documentation to let them know I am in compliance of the 90/180 rule?"

Answer: Yes, or at least that has been recommended by the US State Department. No need to rely on the authorities to do it for you, when it's you that will suffer the consequences if they don't.

Here's a link to one of the primary discussion threads (on the Helpline) on Schengen issues:

click here

To get technical for a minute, the 5th para of the OP (of the above linked discussion) gives a different answer than Steve's post, for someone like Phil who is traveling, as most of us would, on his passport under what's called the visa waiver rules (no visa needed).

I'm not sure whether the info given in para 5 is correct, as applied to Phil's situation, or whether Steve's post is correct. It's a complicated set of rules. But Phil is going to be traveling on his passport (no reason for him to be traveling on a C-type Schengen visa), which probably makes a difference in the answer to Phil's main (1st) question.

So, I thought I would post this, in case Phil or someone else wants to do further research on the effect of leaving the Schengen zone, where the total numbers of days within the Schengen zone does not exceed 90 days in the 6 months following first entry into the Schengen zone, which is what Phil is talking about.

In the past, it's been the understanding of most people here that you're okay as long as your total # of days within the Schengen zone does not exceed 90 days within 180 days; and that you can go in and out of the Schengen zone multiple times during that period, as long as your total days within the Schengen zone does not exceed 90. That appears to be what Phil is talking about.

Here's another discussion thread on Schengen rules:

click here

Are your days in the UK at the end of your trip? If they are you would be leaving the Schengen zone at the same time your 90 days are up.

No the UK/non schengen dates would be in the middle. I guess what I really want to know is can I spend 10 days in Schengen, 4 days out, 30 days back in, 6 days out, 44 days back in, thus lets say out of 94 days in Europe, only 84 in Schengen. Or once I land in Schengen, ninety days later I need to be out, regardless If I spent hypothetically 20 in UK? Does this make since?

You have 90 days total in a 180-day period, so taking the time out in the middle is OK.

Regarding Phil's 2nd question (should he document his coming and goings from the Schengen zone), this from the US State Department Schengen Fact Sheet:

"Although European Union regulations require that non-EU visitors obtain a stamp in their passports upon initial entry to a Schengen country, many borders are not staffed with officers carrying out this function. If an American citizen wishes to ensure that his or her entry is properly documented, it may be necessary to request a stamp at an official point of entry. Under local law, travelers without a stamp in their passports may be questioned and asked to document the length of their stay in Schengen countries at the time of departure or at any other point during their visit, and could face possible fines or other repercussions if unable to do so."

Let's get it into a nutshell. Since you're only staying in Schengen for 84-86 days, you'll be fine. You are under the 90 day limit.

You should get a stamp in your passport whenever you arrive and leave Schengen. If you don't get one, keep a copy of your plane/train ticket on the days you leave and enter Schengen. A copy of your e-ticket will suffice.

This will prove which days you entered and left Schengen. Also have these handy should the passport official question how much time you have you have left on the visa. You can prove when you're leaving with your return ticket.

Understand something else. Just because we are a visa waiver in Schengen does not guarantee you automatic entry. For that long a trip, they may be concerned that you are going to try to work. You may have to prove you have enough funds to support yourself for the entire trip.

From the U.S. Department of State:

"To enter one Schengen country is to gain up to 90 days of continuous travel between the member states."

Seems to me like once you enter, you have to be in and out of Schengen within 90 days. It also seems like you need to contact someone official (like a Schengen country's embassy/consulate, or a U.S. State Dept. official) to clarify, instead of relying on what seems like a series of conflicting opinions on message boards.

If you don't want to make phone calls, I suggest you tweak your plans and visit all of your non-Schengen countries before or after all the Schengen countries, just to be safe.

"...instead of relying on what seems like a series of conflicting opinions on message boards."

Phil has done the right thing, he's trying to comply, in what can be a confusing area of entry/exit regulations.

And so, to reward Phil for his due diligence and trying to do the right thing, I think we should save him a lot of time, by just voting what he wants to do, up or down, right here in these hallowed pages.

Majority rules, so far it's 3 saying he can do it and 2 saying he can't.

If we vote in favor of letting Phil do this, he can print out a hard copy of our discussion here, and show it to the EU officials when he's called in for questioning.

In fact, the Helpline Subcommittee on the Interpretation of Schengen Entry/Exit Regulation will even present Phil with a certificate, suitable for framing, saying that we here have approved what Phil wants to do.

No problemo. Next question.

The 90 day rule is not continuous. Here's the exert from the Belgium Embassy regarding Americans visiting Schengen:

VISITORS (Schengen Visa)

American Citizens do not need a visa when they travel to Belgium for business or for personal travel. The stay in the Schengen area should not exceed 90 days in a 6 month period. Please note that the American visitor will need to present a valid American passport (that does not expire before the end of the visit), proof of sufficient funds and a return airline ticket.

The Schengen visa is valid for the following 25 European countries:

1. Austria
2. Belgium
3. The Czech Republic
4. Denmark
5. Estonia
6. Finland
7. France
8. Germany
9. Greece
   1. Hungary
   2. Iceland
   3. Italy
   4. Latvia
   5. Lithuania
   6. Luxembourg
   7. Malta
   8. The Netherlands
   9. Norway
   10. Poland
   11. Portugal
   12. Slowakia
   13. Slovenia
   14. Spain
   15. Sweden
   16. Switzerland

No mention of continuous. Just 90 days in a 6 month period. Continuous doesn't make sense...stay for a week and then you have to wait 90 days to come back? I don't think so.

"Going to the UK they are pretty good about stamping passports for your records" is not necessarily an accurate statement.

In looking at my current passport, for for the last thirty monnths alone, I have eleven entry stamps and zero exit stamps for the UK. French and German stamps look close enough. Spain must be out of entry stamps completely. I don't think I've entered the EU through Italy for a long time.

I'd hold onto those scaps of paper.

Edit: Bad miscount on my part; above are mostly for entry, nobody seems to stamp exits very often -- not unique to UK at all.

You are on the right track. In regards to time out of the Schengen zone, heed advice to maintain proof of travel. Stamps in your passport are best, but spotty; the next best things though are boarding passes, train tickets, then things like Hotel receipts. The burden of proof is on you, not them.

You will want documentation just in case someone asks. Sometimes no one asks until later (like your next Europe trip).

The best is to have your passports stamped when you enter and leave Schengen.

If you can't get your passport stamped (could happen depending on your mode of transportation), receipts from your hotel stays (in your name) will also prove that you were outside of Schengen for part of your 94 days.