Schengen

The Schengen entry/exit regulations are:

Not more than 90 days in the 180 days that starts on the date of first entry into the Schengen zone.

Leaving the Schengen zone for a quick visit does not reset the 90 or 180 days (if you're there 45 days and go to the UK for a week or two, and then re-enter the Schengen zone, you only have 45 days left).

This is a frequently asked question here and past posts have described sanctions for violating the regulations, which apparently (I don't have personal knowledge of this but it has been posted several times without refutation) include refusal of entry into Europe (the 25 or so Schengen countries) for a significant period of time in the future.

I don't know the answer to your other questions.

Occasionally, posters have indicated they weren't aware of the 90 day limit, stayed longer, and "nothing happened."

Travelers that have gotten caught probably prefer not to discuss it on an internet forum, so we probably won't hear from them.

In general, on this forum, the standard advice has been to respect Europe's entry/exit regulations.

Hi Kent,

Thanks for responding!

I've been looking for weeks online and can't get definites on these. Emailed my friend in Switzerland just now to see if he knows, but I'm sure he's unsure too.

I guess once you left a Schengen country and went to a non-Schengen country the visit could be extended to whichever country you're in. For example: You enter a Schengen country (France). Take a train, car, hitchhike, whatever across to Eastern Europe. You exit Hungary (Schengen state) into Romania (non-Schengen state). Are you now held to the visit limit for Romania which I believe is 90 days? Would this not be regardless of the number of days you spent in Schengen?

So I enter Paris on 9/1. Make my way to Hungary and enter Romania on 12/1. So give or take I've spent 90 days in Schengen Europe. I now, by entering Romania, would have whatever length of time that country grants to a U.S. Passport holding citizen regardless of what country I am entering from.

I hope I'm making sense with this. And maybe I'm living in a fantasy world.

This link

http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm/rurl/topic/24928/cant-stay-in-schengen-zone-more-than-3-mos-in-6-mos-following-first-entry.html

has a discussion of Schengen issues that may provide you with useful general information--see the original post of that link, in particular.

As to your question: "So I enter Paris on 9/1. Make my way to Hungary and enter Romania on 12/1. So give or take I've spent 90 days in Schengen Europe. I now, by entering Romania, would have whatever length of time that country grants to a U.S. Passport holding citizen regardless of what country I am entering from."

That sounds right to me, since Romania is not a Schengen country. In the example you gave, an important detail is that you wouldn't be able to (legally) re-enter the Schengen zone until 180 days (6 months) after your date of first entry into a Schengen country; if your date of first entry into the Schengen zone was Paris on Sept 1, and you had already used up your 90 days in the Schengen zone (as in your example), then you could not re-enter the Schengen zone until approx March 1.

You may already know this, but here's a handy list of the 25 European countries now included in the Schengen zone: Italy, France, Germany, Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and (since Dec 2008) Switzerland.

Frank, Paul, Kent, & Brad. You guys are awesome. Thanks for the continued posts.

I'm over 30 years old. I'm honestly not trying to "work the system" if you will, but just trying to get a feel. I get what you all are saying that it's pretty much a crap shoot.

I'm starting to draft up a plan of what/where I want to hit. I'm thinking of starting in France and making my way down into Italy...Milan, down to Rome, up to Venice, and probably end in Switzerland where I have friends, and then fly out from there (depending on how pricey the damn Swiss will be).

My plan is to mix up the travel by foot/car/train, basically what I think I can handle physically. Obviously I wouldn't be able to walk it all (more than 20 miles a day), but if I get strapped for time by the time I get to Milan, I would skip Rome and go straight to Venice in order to stay within the 90 days.

As far as showing up with a backpack. My thought was to check everything in my suitcase. Pack the actual pack, bedding, etc., and possibly pick up anything I couldn't fit in a single case when I get there. Not optimal, but I totally agree that too much could raise red flags.

So, my follow-up question is, how would you gentlemen pull this one off if it were you? How do I get camping items into the country without looking like a future homeless person. I would simply disgard the suitcase I bring everything over with as to not have to take it with me, then get a new one once in Switzerland.

Appreciate your experience and continued advice.

How long you stay in Schengen shouldn't have any effect on your length of stay outside of Schengen.

However....be aware. Just because these are written rules doesn't guarantee you entry into a country.

If you plan to wander around Europe for a length of time, immigration (not customs) officials might want to know how you are supporting yourself. If they feel you will be looking for illegal work, they may not let you in.

Additionally, they have the power to limit how long you s stay in the country. They don't automatically have to give you 90 days. They will ask how long you plan to stay. They may require proof of an onward ticket.

Or they may not give you a second look. It's all a crapshoot.

Most border crossings within Schengen are gone. It's like going from state to state in the U.S.

FYI--Customs deals with goods and things you've purchased. It has nothing to do with how long you are allowed to stay in the country.

Hi Frank,

Great adivce! And Thank you for correcting me about immigration/customs. You can tell I'm a novice.

What about booking a return flight, let's say, a week after you enter, thus giving immigration the idea that you'll be leaving in a week. Then once in, contacting your airline and pushing the date out, so you avoid the hairy-eyeball by immigration. I have zero experience trying to work loopholes like this, but any advice you have on this would be awesome.

Thanks for taking the time to help. More than appreciated.

"What about booking a return flight, let's say, a week after you enter, thus giving immigration the idea that you'll be leaving in a week. Then once in, contacting your airline and pushing the date out, so you avoid the hairy-eyeball by immigration."

These days, changing the date of a flight could incur a significant "changing your flight" fee, which could get expensive, especially if you do it more than once.

The first time I visited Australia their rules were similar to this, you needed to show a ticket for flight out and financial capacity to be allowed into the country. I haven't been asked, seen someone asked or heard of someone asked to show these in Europe. They typically ask where you're going, the purpose of your visit, when you will leave and document that on your records.

Your flight records are available to the immigrations people and your lodging history is available to them. It's always best to know the rules and stick to them.

If you need to stay longer, plan ahead and request a Visa. The Schengen rules we're always talking about on this forum are only for people traveling under Visa waiver rules.

Brad's "The Schengen rules we're always talking about on this forum are only for people traveling under Visa waiver rules."

means traveling under a passport, without a visa, as most of us do.

To address other parts of your question,

1. If you arrive in a Schengen country are you "required" to show proof of a return flight?

It is the responsibility of Immigration officials to assess your purpose and intent for visiting, and they are given wide latitude to ask questions or request information. One of these is your travel itinerary (to show a stay of less than 90 days), so yes they may ask for a return ticket. Do they? I would say hit or miss. If you present a ticket more than 90 days out, then you better have an answer for further questions, Financial ability would not get you anything if your answer is to violate Visa requirements, only when applying for a visa. They could I suppose ask about Financial ability regardless of length of stay. The option is entirely theirs.

1. What if the return flight is from a non-Schengen country? Does it matter?
2. Lets say you stayed past your 90 days in a Schengen country and tried to exit to a non-Schengen country (Romania for example), what roadblocks would customs from that non-Schengen country impose, if any?

If your flight is from a non-schengen country, it is not an issue, unless it is far out and you indicate you will be in the Schengen Zone for more than 90 days.
As for staying beyond the 90, then exiting to a Non-Schengen Country, On exit of the Schengen Country you may be questioned, but not by the new country, the Schengen Country. If by foot you mean roadway, I believe there are still land border crossing points you have to go through.

When crossing borders, it is as much in your interest to make sure you get stamped or scanned, as a countries. The reason being, if you are stopped in country or on exit, the burden of proof is on you to prove that you are there legally, not them to show you are there illegally. Lack of proof will only hurt you and strengthen their case.

As Kent mentioned, you can change your ticket, but it could be very expensive.

Although some people here have not seen anyone asked or stopped, I've seen people detained and refused entry. Usually because the immigration officer was suspicious of something.

Although it is very rare,but, if you are caught breaking immigration rules, it is up to the immigration officer to decide what to do. They could simply ask you to leave immediately or they could deport you. If deported, you could be banned from re-entering (and if it's a Schengen country that means all Schengen countries) for up to 10 years.

If sounds to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're trying to stay the maximum amount of time allowed, if not more,and perhaps find work to help pay your way? If this is so, there is a good chance you won't be caught. But there is also a small chance you will.

BTW...just because you get a "visa" for extended stay, whatever, it still doesn't guarantee you permission to enter or for the entire time. It is still up to the immigration officer. You didn't say how old you are, but if you're under 25 or 30, and you have a backpack, not a convertible bag, you will raise red flags. You may have to show a return ticket and financial resources to prove you can pay your way. Especially if you tell them you're "walking" from country to country. (ugh, they're bigger than you think.)

More than likely, you'll have no problems. But....there is always a small chance.

Since you admit you are a novice, I suggest you get a copy of "Europe through the Back Door" and read it. A lot of your questions will be answered.

I would not be concerned about showing up with a backpack and camping gear, that is very common among young and old. Actually, if you check your bag, I don't think you pick it up until after immigration in nearly all European Airports.

I think my advice for anyone on entry is to be calm, answer questions briefly and honestly, and be prepared to provide any supporting information. Have an itinerary, even if only rough, have the name and address of your first night or more stay, have debit, credit, and some cash, have the names and addresses of your friends in Europe, basically show that you are there on tour with no intent to violate a visa or work.

In most cases, my experience with Schengen Immigration officials has been "meh". Nearly every entry has been a quick stamp or scan and on your way, maybe the business or pleasure question, but never much more.

I will note though that going in and out of the UK (non-Schengen) is a very different experience, and to be honest, Canada to be honest can be more of an issue than any Country I have been to (Japan was probably the most formal, Czech Republic, post Iron Curtain/Pre Schengen probably the least)

Overall, getting in rarely raises issues, violating Visa conditions and getting caught may on exit. As others have mentioned much is at the discretion of the officer, but I will note that if you are questioned on exit and pulled aside, expect that you will miss your flight, requiring you to purchase a replacement, or at least pay a change fee.

Thanks again, Paul. I smiled when you mentioned Canada. I live in NH and travel frequently to Montreal for leisure and I had my car stopped and searched going in. Dogs around the trunk and everything. :-) If you could see me, I would think I am the least threatening person alive, but anyway, it sure was weird standing on the side of the booth as other cars pasted slowly and gawked.

As far as the debit/credit card thing, I have both, but what would they do with them? As additional verification? I can't see how they would check them. If my return ticket is not for 90 days, would they? Also, if my itinerary is slightly not honest as far as it saying I'm headed straight to Geneva to see my friend as opposed to my plan to head to Italy, am I pushing my luck? I would imagine people change plans all the time once in, right?

Immigration agents are trained to look for signs of people lying. And since you are a novice traveler unsure of what he is doing, and trying so hard to fool the authorities--you will get caught.

Here's an idea. Plan the trip you want to take, stay within the legal limits of the visas, and tell the truth. Make sure you have proof that you have enough money to support yourself for the entire time. Credit cards, debit cards, cash, even a bank statement showing you have the funds to support yourself.

I still think there is something you're not telling us. We are not allowed, and have been warned by the webmaster, that we cannot tell you how to break the law.

Thanks for the advice, Frank! I'm not planning on breaking any laws; just putting things out there due to my own curiosity. I start thinking of questions I don't know the answers to and get curious. Trust me, last thing I want to do is become something I can't stand...like an illegal alien. I appreciate the advice and will take it all to heart. :-)