Safe?

Joan, I have often wondered the same thing. It is as if the likelihood of getting a clean and safe hotel is remote, unless recommended by someone on this website. What is a "safe" hotel anyway? The odds of safety in Europe are probably better than in the USA but then Europe is so "foreign", isn't it?

Actually, I think it reflects a worry that in another country you may not recognize a safe neighborhood from an unsafe one.

I was on a RS Heart of Paris tour. Obviously Rick feels the neighborhood is safe, and I have utmost confidence in him. The guide felt it was very safe and authentic and I had/have utmost confidence in her. However, I did not feel comfortable walking from the Metro to the hotel at night. Intellectually I knew it was safe. I just could not get my small rural self's assessment skills to line up with that. I also know there are people on this forum who would stay places I would not be comfortable staying as a senior solo traveler.

Clean, I think, stems from how an inexperienced traveler might percieve how other countries might do clean as opposed to how they, themselves, might perceive clean. If you have been there you know there is not a problem. If you haven't traveled, you don't know. If you see the discussions that include squat toilets in some of the big tourist destinations, that might make you leap to a conclusion that someone might not have your standard of clean if they don't have your standard of toilet.

I also think people might believe budget accommodations might equate to lodging in a marginal neighborhood with substandard cleanliness.

It doesn't bother me if people ask for clean and safe. Rick's forums and programs are focused on teaching inexperienced travelers to get around and they may not know what other words to use to describe what they want.

For readers starting with this web site, articles at https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/sleeping-eating help you understand European hotel options. Rick does tend to use the word "safe" in his introductions to hotel areas or hotel styles, and that is intended to reassure readers, not to make them question the safety of other neighborhoods or budgets. When he says "never compromise safety to save money," that's addressing extremists who want to sleep in the park, not implying that hotels are not normally safe.

The only European hotel I can think of that really did not meet my basic expectations was the one that had a room available to book through the Munich Tourist Office on the first day of Oktoberfest, without advance reservation. It was in a fine, residential neighborhood, but "maintained and cleaned" by an owner who did not seem particularly dedicated to that task. He probably never got any business outside of Oktoberfest.

I also think some people , especially younger females or parents of young females watched the movie "Taken" and fear far more then pickpockets.. dumb movie.

As for clean,, that is so subjective.. I do think some people equate "modern" and new with clean and equate older and antique with dirty.. I have seen people post that they are staying in hotels in buildings that I know are minimally 150-200 years old.. and their comments about "worn carpet"" old curtains" make me think they consider "worn" the same as dirty.. I have always stayed in clean places.. but they are certainly never modern and sterile looking..

Joan,

I think alot of the noob questions comes from ignorance. Its like when some ask whats the "best" X. There are many qualifiers that can describe "best". I also think its due the all of the info on the www, but they dont take any time to do their "homework" and see whats offered and what type of qualifiers can be used to describe "best"..

As far as "safe" i think its again due to ignorance but also they are "assuming" whats happening in their own backyard is happening outside of the USA too. For example, driving, many first time? travelers assume you will need to drive everywhere, just like here.

happy trails.

I don't think it's ignorant or "noob" whatever that means to ask for a recommendation of a good, clean, safe hotel. Why is the idea of safe so important? Well, why is it not important?? What does clean mean? Puhleeze!! If you're going to Istanbul or Madrid or Krakow or any other place you don't know anything about, I'm pretty sure you want a clean and safe place to lay your head at night. There's nothing wrong with asking about it, is there?

BTW this was something that you do wanted to ask about hostels back when I was doing hostels. The Paris Hostel was notorious for being safe, but filthy. And I ended up there and yep, very safe, but also bugs!!! And I agree that it's partly the thought that budget might equal dirty and not safe.

But, it's also perhaps a bit of a function of today's concerns about general safety when traveling. It used to be people would say, bon voyage or have a good trip. But today, how many times to people say to you "Safe travels?" I like that Rick keeps saying, "Happy Travels." Oh, and this is not just for international travel. I get it when I going to Rockford, Illinois.

Pam

I do consider the request to recommend a clean and safe hotel to be redundant (who would recommend a dirty and unsafe hotel?), but I generally interpret the question to mean that the person wants a place that is well kept where one can comfortably walk around in the evening.

I don't understand why you think this is such a strange question on a board where many people are traveling to a place for the first time. Unfortunately, I've stayed in a few places that have been subpar in the cleanliness factor (and I'm really not picky). I've also stayed in hotels where hotel staff advised me not to walk in the area around the hotel due to crime (in the U.S. and in South Africa). Travelers don't necessarily know the crime stats for the places they are visiting and are simply communicating their basic requirements.

I have seen on this Forum travelers referring to hotels with all modern amenities as "hotels with American standards". This statement is definitely offensive to Europeans!

"Safe" is certainly in the eye of the beholder, but I think it's a reasonable request. Twice on business trips I have found myself in lovely hotels – once in Boston, and once Atlanta – that bordered really unsafe parts of town. And I didn't realize that until I went out for a walk. I've also seen tourists and people from conventions walking through parts of San Francisco that most natives would avoid. So when I specify safe, my hope/expectation is that someone would at least tell me if it's a nice hotel in a borderline area.

I think it's not wholly an over-reaction. Few European cities have areas that are as dangerous as the worst in North America (or at least not in locations that tourists are likely to casually wander into without noticing), but it's possible that a budget hotel aimed at the hipster market might be in a currently-gentrifying area that might have residents who would prey on and/or resent wealthy and naive tourists. Also, with flat rental sites like vrbo and airbnb becoming more popular, people looking for cheap accomodation above all might find themselves in non-tourist areas that might be dodgy - I remember an enquiry a few months ago where someone was planning to move their family into a flat in an area of inner East London that was dubious to say the least.

So while it may occasionally look silly to us when people worry over "safety" in well-established and affluent tourist hotel neighbourhoods, the issue isn't completely irrelevant.

The divide here may be between those who have found themselves in questionable lodgings, and those who haven't. One of the worst places I've stayed was in Wawa, Ontario. The hotel bar was full of fishermen and miners, and when the bar closed down they moved to the rooms and hallways. They were fighting like hockey players in the halls. We even moved the dresser in front of the door.

On a related note, I recently read that some prostitutes were booking AirB&B's in NYC because they were cheaper than hotel rooms. One owner came back to find...evidence...that her apartment was used as a brothel.

Wawa, Ontario ! My sympathies.

Ah well, not too much sympathy for the AirB&B owner. It was probably an illegal rental anyway. Most of them in NYC are illegal so bear that in mind if you decide to try it in NYC! And, I think that it is likely a good law and not simply one that is the result of a powerful hotel lobby. Would you like to live in an apartment building where your neighbor was a different person every week or even every other day? And that was there to partee all night long? :( Talk about safety!

Pam

I woke up thinking about this thread and also realized sometimes clean can be a code word for no bedbugs. I understand this is a problem in some cities in the US altho I have never experienced it. Wasn't it just this summer a guy posted frantically from Paris having found himself and his family in a hotel with bedbugs?

When I perform due diligence in selecting accommodations, "clean" is more important than other factors (e.g. wide range of services not utilized by me). If dirty bathrooms, dust bunnies and related are common, I'll move on.

I've been very lucky in choosing hotels based on reviews on various websites; as a solo female I am especially pleased to read when a reviewer mentions a bit about the neighbourhood a hotel is in and how they feel when walking to it at night or early morning, is there a 24-hour front desk and also any security measures the hotel takes to ensure a guest's safety, like needing a card key to access the elevator or area on each floor where the rooms are. Of course everyone's idea of safe is different.

As for clean, the first thing I do in a room is throw back the bedcovers and look for hairs left behind, then give the toilet a good scrutiny as well. I have modest requirements, don't need the bed changed every day, will re-use towels but I do like to see a clean floor and wastebasket.

No one asks for a recommendation for a place with a "comfortable" bed, which seems to be a given. Cleanliness and safety are subjective, and can be affected by the people there, but there are clearly some places that a majority of people would agree are not safe and/or clean, for various reasons. We've even stayed at places recommended in Rick Steves' guidebooks (a place in Sevilla comes to mind, run by friendly people and very well-located, but the housekeeping was very substandard) that were much less clean that we're used to. If Rick mentions a place is "well-worn," or "could be cleaner," that's a tip-off that the place is absolutely filthy. Sometimes it's worth paying more, or staying a bit farther from a particular neighborhood, to not have to deal with a place you consider insufficiently tidy or sanitary.

Lowlifes or thugs can make a place unsafe even for a big guy, but anyone should take precautions these days, to ensure they're comfortable where they live and visit. Someone venturing into the unknown (as on a first trip somewhere) may need to be certain they spell out their priorities, and being safe is a reasonable thing to want.

Safe (def.) - protected from or not exposed to danger or risk; not likely to be harmed or lost.

Clean (def.) - free from dirt, marks, or stains.

The above definitions are what I'm thinking of when I'm looking for a "safe" and "clean" room recommendation. I will never feel bad about that, regardless of cultural origin or level of travel experience.

.......... If Rick mentions a place is "well-worn," or "could be cleaner," that's a tip-off that the place is absolutely filthy. Sometimes it's worth paying more, or staying a bit farther from a particular neighborhood, to not have to deal with a place you consider insufficiently tidy or sanitary.......

Ive stayed at places Rick's book has classified as "well-worn" just to experience and see for myself what it means since i feel that everyones standards will vary and can be subjective. I can tell you that it wasnt "dirty" in my opinion, but the wool rug was "well worn" and the desk chair creaked when i sat in it. The bathrooms wasnt new and it wasnt expected it to be, but it was clean (relative) and worked.

i have an orange shag carpet in my bedroom so if any of you are old enough to date that, you have an idea what I'm use to.

happy trails.

The few times I have asked for recommendations on hotels, I may have listed 'safe' and 'clean', along with 'central location' and 'budget friendly' as my requirements. These are my priorities. Amenities like elevator, AC, 24 hr front desk, breakfast, and other niceties are not my priorities.

When I recommend places to others, I also usually point out that it was 'safe' and 'clean'. To me that means it was in a location where I felt safe as a single female to walk back to my hotel after dark and that the hotel had appropriate security features. And clean to me means that I found no obvious hair (or other unmentionable things) in the sleeping area, the sheets and pillowcases were freshly laundered and the bathroom was acceptable - I'm not a white glove housekeeper so this is basic cleanliness, not necessarily spic and span spotless.

I agree that these seem obvious and no one here would likely recommend anything else, but I see nothing unusual in someone stating their needs when looking for a recommendation.

Interestingly, when there is a recommendation is asked for a "safe" hotel, I think the "asker" is referring to the hotel, not the neighbourhood. Which is why I asked and ask again, what is a "safe" hotel?

i have an orange shag carpet in my bedroom so if any of you are old enough to date that, you have an idea what I'm use to.
ray, I have to know, do you have one of those shag carpet "rake" attachments for the vacuum-remember those? My chores as a kid sometimes involved raking the shag carpet.

Norma, that just shows how subjective the term is and how people view it differently. I always assumed that when someone asks if it's safe, they're asking about the location/neighborhood.

There will never be one definition of 'safe' (or 'clean') that will suffice for everyone.

@ dave,

i have an orange shag carpet in my bedroom so if any of you are old enough to date that, you have an idea what I'm use to.
ray, I have to know, do you have one of those shag carpet "rake" attachments for the vacuum-remember those? My chores as a kid sometimes involved raking the shag carpet.

Nope. Just an older sear canister vacuum with the typical carpet beater tool.

happy trails.

@ nancy,

There will never be one definition of 'safe' (or 'clean') that will suffice for everyone.

Instead of being vague in their questions, like "I want the best luggage", they can specify, what they mean by "best". Just like when people will ask, "whats the must do/sees" in x place, many people reply, "whats do you like to/do/see?".

i know that some people will roll their eyes at having to explain what they mean by "safe" or "clean" but it cuts out the guessing and assuming.

happy trails.