River Cruise-immersive or not?

I now regard both the river cruises and ocean cruises I've been on the same way: they gave me a great, though brief, introduction to a great many places, enough to decide whether I'd like to return later to learn more about them. I loved all my cruises, but with more time to travel now, I think cruising is in my rearview mirror. Maybe when I'm old enough to lose my very good mobility, I'll want to cruise again.

Seldom have the cruises allowed me to spend more than a single day in any port of call, so "immersive" isn't an adjective that comes to mind. But for you, who haven't visited the ports of call before, it could be ideal.

Disclaimer: not been on a river cruise, but researched it quite a bit for my wife.

did it meet your expectations for immersing yourself in a location?

My observation is that your opportunity will be limited. The stops are well known tourist areas, you are there a relatively short time (usually part of a day), and a chunk of that day is taken up of organized tours/excursions. If you told me you were doing the same stops independently, something like 10 cities/3 countries in 8 days, and want to "immerse" yourself, my response would be, when would you get the chance?

One thing that really connects me with an area is eating in smaller local places and spending the evening wandering the streets, stopping for a local beer or wine, basically enjoying the place. Most river cruises, your meals are on the boat, yes, they will feature "local cuisine", but that is not the same as having the cuisine in the places it was developed. Glad to see that they are allowing some independent time, that came up as a common complaint, but the bulk of your time will be on the boat or in organized activity. Hopefully the boat will be docking near the city center at the stops, another common complaint is that all the river boats are moored together more than walking distance from the city center, sort of forcing you to stay on board.

On the plus side, you will get a good taste of the various destinations, the excursions usually get high marks for quality, you only unpack once. I just think you have to accept the river cruise for what it is, and enjoy that, not try to make it something it is not.

Our only experience of a river cruise was in Asia. We had two excursions off the ship each day. Plus there were lectures on the local culture, traditional dance performances, etc. at night. I felt that the excursions off the ship gave us a broad range of cultural experiences and sights. When we had any free time we were in the ship’s pool which was in the afternoon after being out and about. Our days were very full. It was wonderful. So I guess you will have to look at what the planned excursions are for this trip and what else the cruise offers in terms of educational lectures, local performers during the cruise.

We have been on several river cruises; that said, the "immersive" experience totally depends on the particular cruise and its itinerary.
Having some time to explore on your own allows for a bit of this.

Some river cruises don't travel very far. For example, one of our favorite trips was a cruise on the Nile. We spent several days in Cairo, and then on the boat near Luxor. We saw all the places we wanted to see, because the sites were so close together, and could depend on the cruise line for transportation to them. It was great to only unpack twice; the food and wine were locally sourced; I didn't have to deal with setting up tours/transport/lodging in a country I was not at all familiar with. We got off the boat a couple of times on our own when it was docked close to town.

Allan, we had a great time on our one river cruise (viking Amsterdam to Basel), and would do it again. There were six of us family members, and we agreed it was a great way to travel together without being tied to each other or arguing about what to do. And a couple of us with mobility challenges were also accommodated.

But, no it was not an immersive experience. I told friends then that it was "Europe Lite" (less filling). Look closely at the itinerary and you'll see the morning excursions are timed to bring you back to the ship for lunch. Afternoon excursions that dont include a dinner on shore are timed to return for dinner. Then, the gathering of groups and herding on and off buses, takes time as well. When you are on the excursion, with your english-speaking guides, you feel pretty insulated from actual contact with locals, unless they are paid local guides.

And all of that seemed OK with the mostly older, well-heeled crowd on the ship. Someone called the river cruise demographic a "Masterpiece Theater" crowd.* They were mostly interested in the food and drink, and there is little else to do on the ship. I think the pre-port lectures and the "localized" menus were as close as most people wanted to get to experiencing the culture.

The cruising was mostly at night (except for the Middle Rhein), to maximize daytime in ports and most of the river is ugly and industrialized. There were only two stops (Köln being one) where we docked close enough to town to get off and walk on your own. Otherwise many people called taxis to take them to places not on excursions. Beware of the time limits, as we did see a few people stranded on shore for not getting back in time (time at the dock is money).

On the plus side, Viking was great about airport pickup, luggage handling, post-cruise transportation, and otherwise handholding. And sometimes that's a welcome change from the RS experience. We considered this to be a "relaxing" vacation, not a learning-the-culture experience.

suggestions: look over the optional excursions carefully, and go ahead and book in advance if they sound even a bit interesting, as they get full. Find a dinner server you like and try to stick with them. That's the one you tip at the end if you decide to.

* from the frequent TV commercials seen on Public Broadcasting in the US, during that program. Implies a sophisticated, educated audience.

Immersive? With only a part of one day in any given location? Hardly. Really, the only difference from an ocean cruise is that you get to places farther inland, and generally dock closer to the area of interest. It's about as immersive as any bus tour.

We have done six river cruises and they were all a bit different.
They were-
1) Russian river cruise from Moscow to St. Pete.
2) Yangzee River cruise in China that was a part of a 3.5 week tour of China.
3) Rhone/Saone River cruise in SW France.
4) Douro River cruise in northern Portugal.
5) Two Nile river cruise included in a tour of Egypt.

Advantages of a river cruise:
1) You get to tour scenic places on rivers that are usually a bit out of the way for other travel and you don't have to unpack and pack into a new hotel. It is nicer than taking a bus tour. Just sitting on the deck of the boat watching the countryside go by is nice.
2) River boats normally carry from 120-170 passengers and you get to know many of your cruise mates, which is not the case with an ocean cruise.
3) Since the boat has to travel from port to port much of your sailing is at night where on a tour bus, you might waste time traveling during the day.
4) All of the ports we visited on our river cruises were not major cities, except those at the beginning and end of the cruise.

5) Regarding the immersion debate, I felt that we were more immersed on the river cruise than if we had done a bus tour.

I now regard both the river cruises and ocean cruises I've been on the
same way: they gave me a great, though brief, introduction to a great
many places, enough to decide whether I'd like to return later to
learn more about them.

We did a Mediterranean cruise 10 years ago as our first European adventure. Before going I had expressed concern to a well-travelled friend that I was concerned about short visits and I wouldn't get a chance to really experience each port. His advice made me feel better, he said to treat it for what it was and make a list of places you'll want to go back for a longer visit. He was right and my 14 days in Sorrento last year was because of that whirlwind day 10 years ago. Not a cruise, but an RS tour in 2019 included a 1 hour visit to Beynac in France's Dordogne region. It's because of that visit that we're going back for a longer visit at the end of September.

Look closely at the itinerary and you'll see the morning excursions
are timed to bring you back to the ship for lunch.

We haven't received a timed itinerary yet but we sensed that was how things were being organized. We've already discussed that we doubt that we'd return to the ship for lunch and would breakaway at end of tour for more exploring unless there is a 2nd tour we want in the afternoon. I suspect that we may not get our money's worth in terms of food since we may skip many meals, but the cruise is still worth doing if for nothing else but to get an experience that we've never had before.

I have never been on a river cruise, but recently I read something about excursions on river cruises.

The person said if they were to do it all over again they would plan out their own day and just use the excursion as transportation off the boat and into the city and back. They said the excursion wasn't fulfilling enough and too touristy.

I guess that would be a suggestion. Just plan your own day and just go back at the designated time to your boat. Just don't be late!! This way you can immerse yourself as you wish or at least grind into the details of their excursion to see how encompassing it is and alter as needed.

This is just like a My Way tour of RS. Instead of a bus and hotels planned for you, you already have a hotel and transportation in one spot, the boat!

recently I read something about excursions on river cruises. The person said if they were to do it all over again they would plan out their own day and just use the excursion as transportation off the boat and into the city and back. They said the excursion wasn't fulfilling enough and too touristy.

I'd be cautious about taking this advice to heart. We've taken several river cruises on Uniworld, and the excursions were almost uniformly excellent. We also had knowledgeable (essentially scholarly) local experts who would prepare us each evening for the next morning's port of call. Had we chosen to go our own way, we'd have missed out on many wonderful experiences, and we wouldn't be as well-equipped to visit those cities again on our own.

Undoubtedly the experience will differ somewhat for different cruise lines and, to some extent, different itineraries.

Hi Allan, our first Viking river cruise was Basel to Amsterdam and we enjoyed it very much. We added a week in Murren, Switzerland prior to boarding and a few days in Amsterdam after disembarking. We’ve found that the combo of independent travel and a tour/cruise works best for us.

We liked the cruise and participated in some included and optional excursions. We usually skipped lunch on board and used the time to explore on our own. I wouldn’t consider it an immersive experience since you’re only in each port for a day. We did get a good feel for the area and the culture. Hope you enjoy your trip!

We've done one river cruise in Europe and one in China, lots of ocean cruises, and lots of land travel (tours and independent) in Europe. I think "Europe lite" is a good description of our river experience (not Viking). I wouldn't call it immersive (unless, of course, something untoward were to happen out there on the water). Others have described the routine -- sail at night, a morning tour of a city (ours were excellent, I wouldn't recommend skipping them), afternoon free time in the city with a shuttle back to the ship, dinner on board. It's worth trying, Allan, especially for someone as curious and open to experiences as you.

I don't think we'll do another river cruise because the time in the cities is too short. One full day in Budapest, two in Vienna, an excursion to Salzburg -- that doesn't make it. For someone who hasn't traveled in Europe before, though, a river cruise can be a good introduction to Europe itself and to particular places worth longer future visits. And it certainly has advantages for people with less mobility or less adventurous eating ambitions. One suggestion I'd have is to go on a line that caters to multiple nationalities (again, not Viking, if the commercials are any guide). You can spend social time with Europeans, a kind of contrived "backdoor" experience that presents itself more easily than in other travel settings. Have fun! You may love it, or not, but you won't know till you've tried.

Immersive could work if they pair you up with genuine locals to get a feel for the day-to-day life of the culture. A tour guide with a flag and a bus full of people ain't gonna do that.

While ocean cruising has some appeal, river cruising doesn’t much do it for us, WITH the exception of a couple of rivers. The Nile (we loved our 4 night river cruise on a dahabiya), and the Mekong (hope to do someday).

Allan, I’m sure you read the recent thread on here regarding a river cruise that turned into an expensive bus tour? Yikes. Many things to consider. I hope your cruise is great, but for some reason in your profile it sounded like you had done river cruises before?

Allan, we took that river cruise on Emerald in 2018. It was lovely.

There is always the concern about river levels. Too high and the ship can’t get under the bridges. Too low and you can’t pass another boat. Why didn’t those folks who built the bridges think of us all those years ago. How selfish! We chose end of April as opposed to September, hoping for longer days.. Each day we had wind, rain, snow, or sleet. I still remember the cruise director in the morning meeting “ today we will do plan C!” IMHO, they still provided a great experience. It was an introduction to all the destinations, and yes, there was not a lot of time in each place, but if I remember correctly, we were able to walk to the town centres, so transportation was not a concern.

The tips were included, so as with a RSE tour, there were no awkward moments when being served or at the end of the trip. We signed up early enough that we got an upgraded alcohol package and I even got a couple of complimentary massages. I’ve been on a few ocean cruises, and felt I was nickeled and dimed every day. Emerald just wanted you to have a relaxing, luxurious vacation. The sites were still outstanding in the rain.

You will have a wonderful time, and as you have done before, you will get a taste of each place and decide if you want to return. Enjoy!

Go Oilers Go!

Susie

@Tammy, 2 ocean cruises, never a river cruise. Our first choice remains the Nile, however it's not so easy for Canadians to get into Egypt. Our governments are having a spat and Canadians can't simply show up at the Cairo airport and get a visa. We have to send our passports to the Egyptian consulate in Ottawa for approval. Nope to that. Plus, the shooting is a little too close for comfort right now.

@Susie, I can't say we haven't thought about the river levels, but we'll just roll with it. And please stop with the Oilers stuff or I'll report you to the webmaster for obnoxious content ;)

I really have no opinion on cruising. What I'm curious about is this word immersive and what exactly does one mean by it when they use the word?

The immediate impression I get is that it is an attempt to elevate oneself above the average traveler. Comes off like discussions on tourist vs traveler vs visitor vs "living like a local". Maybe I'm wrong. Immersive brings to mind computer generated gaming environments or the re-created historic environments at re-enactments or living history museums. And there's always something there to drag you back. I've not usually associated immersive with travel because I've associated it with replicated environments.

VAP, for me it means pairing up with a typical local, like a "Joe Six Pack" in America, and sharing the day with them to better understand the culture on an intimate level--within reason of course lol--that dives deeper than the usual superficial tour.

Allan, is this the first retirement trip? I recall you've mentioned the magic date is approaching.

I really have no opinion on cruising. What I'm curious about is this word immersive and what exactly does one mean by it when they use the word?

It sure can be an open to interpretation. I definitely didn't mean it in any hoidy toidy-I'm a traveller, you're a tourist kind of way. To me it means taking a deep dive into the local history and culture and learning about it. Not necessarily trying to talk up the locals or living like a local, but simply appreciating the history and surroundings and how did it become what it is. In reference to a river cruise for example I'm looking forward to the nightly lectures about the next stop. It's little things like that that can make what I'm seeing be a little more meaningful. Or breaking out from the group when they head back to the ship for lunch, we'll go deeper into town and explore and be the last ones back on board.

Allan, is this the first retirement trip? I recall you've mentioned
the magic date is approaching.

My last day of work is August 30th. First retirement trip is later in September when we have two weeks in Portugal and then a week in the Dordogne region of France. We'll call the river cruise the 2nd retirement trip, unless I find a seat sale before then that I can't pass up.

We just returned from an Emerald cruise from Passau (2 hours from Munich) to Budapest in May. They divided the passengers into four groups which could be 40 plus people for the bus or walking tours. Normally it was less. You had ear buds to hear the guide. I enjoyed the tours that included something extra over just walking the historic centers. For example, a ride into the countryside to a herb farm with local beer and snacks. There are 10 e-bikes on their boats. You can use them in port and I enjoyed the one bike tour they offered. It would be worth advanced study to see what else you’d like to go in and visit a museum, gardens etc in your extra time. Most of your city tours are “walk by”. Emerald offers hikes as optional free tours also. Our weather was just so so and many hikes were cancelled. Enjoy your trip. For us it was “one and done”. Everyone ate dinner at the same time and it was VERY noisy. We didn’t see much of the river since almost all the travel was at night. For the price I like RS and other bus tours better.

I recently watched a video whereby the fellow was explaining a Viking Seine river cruise as compared to an ocean cruise. This was his first river cruise. He had been on upwards of 50+ ocean cruises.
At the end he said that on ocean cruises, the ship is the destination and on river cruises the port is the destination. That may sum it up in a nutshell.
In comparison a river cruise is immersive. Although in reality there is no such thing in either when compared to independent travel simply by staying longer in each place.
One could easily ask the same immersive question to those who post these 10 day, 10 different city itineraries. One could say then that the car/train is the destination.

I think treemoss has got it right. Immersive = staying longer, eating and sleeping on land, doing research before the trip about where you're going and what you're going to see, and learning what you reasonably can about the language(s) you'll be hearing around you. In other words, you get out what you put in. No cruise or bus tour can be as immersive as DIY travel, but cruises and tours offer different "immersion" levels for people who don't have the time or energy to put their own trip together.

Congrats on retirement, Allan. You already contribute so much to this forum that it's a little scary to think of you having the time to do even more! ;-)

At the end he said that on ocean cruises, the ship is the destination
and on river cruises the port is the destination. That may sum it up
in a nutshell. In comparison a river cruise is immersive. Although in
reality there is no such thing in either when compared to independent
travel simply by staying longer in each place.
toured

I often wondered if there was a difference in cruisers that take a Caribbean cruise vs. a European cruise. We've done two and chose the trip based on the itinerary and not the ship. We hopped off the ship each morning and toured independently. For us the ship was just a hotel and restaurant. We've never done a Caribbean cruise and likely never will because it seems to me that in those destinations the attraction is more the ship. I could be wrong but I'm not anxious to find out.

In the Caribbean the attraction is first the winter climate, second the ship, third the ports. (On a first cruise, maybe the ports rank higher.) I agree that river and ocean cruises are quite different. Neither are very immersive (unless, as I suggested above, the ship itself becomes immersed, then they're immersive to a fault).

We've done five Caribbean cruises, and Dick is right. People go for the onboard fun, not the local culture. We were considering a Mediterranean cruise, and our experienced travel agent suggested that some of the companies targeted a European clientele, and some, an American clientele. She said Americans went on European cruises because they want to see the ports whereas Europeans (being already in Europe) cruised for the partying. Generalization, of course.

We have done 3 river cruises. Budapest to Prague, Amsterdam to Basil and Lyon to Avignon. We enjoyed them very much. The local excursions were very informative of the history and current state. You should do your own research about each port. In the smaller ports I seek out any hop on hopoff type of tours so we can see more. Dad and I will also do trams in the free time. We usually do not return to the ship for lunch and use that time to visit local cafes, street stands etc. We also add additional days at the beginning and end of the tour to be able to visit more extensively. This was especially important in Budapest and Amsterdam. We love watching the towns go by. We saw a working windmill on our way on the Rhine. Btw the Rhine is my favorite as it is so busy.

Dianejay, what companies did you use for your trips?

Dianejay

If you don’t mind, what time of year were your 3 cruises and were they a long time ago? I’m asking because of the low vs high river issues that occur sometimes. Maybe it’s just luck of the draw considering climate change. But I’m curious because it is what my cousin and I are considering for Spring or Summer 2025.

Linda, I've been monitoring the rivers and cruise reports this Spring and there doesn't seem to be a pattern. Some days the river is high and some days it's not. Some are missing several days on the river, some are inconvenienced for a day, and some not at all. I think it's truly a roulette wheel.

The “immersive” thing mirrors the concept of tourists who think they
can become a part of local society and live like a local at the drop
of a hat.

I guess that would be the definition in its most dramatic form, but if I want to immerse myself into learning about a location's history such as the example I provided in another comment, it certainly doesn't require me to attempt to live like a local. Reading about the history ahead of time, visiting local history museums, asking questions, etc. I don't want to be the local, but I do want to learn how the local and location came to be.

Thanks Allan for your insight on river levels. It’s pretty much as I guessed: luck of the draw

Edit to add: really, our focus would be to relax and learn about the culture of the various port calls on the Danube

Surely there must be some kind of seasonal forecast based on winter snowpack in the watershed and rainfall predictions for the region? A hot dry summer predicted? A lot more than tourist cruise boats depends on the river for transport.

PS when we did the cruise there was low water. They switched us to a smaller shallow draft boat for the scenic gorge portion, which is uncontrolled by locks. Rejoined a larger boat on the other side of the problem area.

Stan, I just found several sites discussing water levels andi think this one looks like it’s the most accurate. Thanks for your tip

https://danubeportal.com/waterLevel/details/HUNGM00001G001116946

We did 2 Viking river cruises in 2022. Before that, it had been 20 years since I had been on an ocean cruise. The 3 ocean cruises were all in the Caribbean. 2 were weekend cruises and the third one was a week in the western Caribbean.
On our first Viking cruise, we went from Basel to Amsterdam. We then spent a few days on our own in Amsterdam at the end. That trip was in the third week of October. The weather was great and the river level was not an issue. we enjoyed going through the locks and the scenery during the day. Understand that the Rhine is wider and busier the closer you get to Kinderdijk and the North Sea. We enjoyed unpacking once, the food, the service, and the accommodations (bottom of the boat). I don't drink alcohol, gamble, or care to spend time in a pool. I mention this because some of the people we have talked to on that trip and since then have a preference. If you like to gamble, imbibe, hang out at the pool, or enjoy ship board shows, then a river cruise may not be for you.
Our second Viking cruise was from Passau to Budapest in the third week of December. This time we had a room with a sliding door (middle floor). This cruise was just as enjoyable as our first and the water levels on the Danube were not an issue. We Disembarked in Budapest on Christmas day for a few days in Budapest on our own.
Since then, we have taken 2 more ocean cruises, have planned 2 more, and will be back on the Danube with Viking from Budapest to Bucharest at the end of this October.
We like that we unpack once, food and room are taken care of, and we pick excursions that are of interest to us (food and history). We will be back on the continent to travel independently once again at some point next year.
We all travel differently, so find a method and a mode that works for you and enjoy. Be it immersive or just a snapshot of places to return to.
Congratulations on your upcoming retirement Allan!
John

I have taken only one traditional river cruise, a two week Smithsonian cruise from Amsterdam to Budapest. Although I enjoyed the trip, I didn't find it especially immersive. Of course, I didn't expect it to be immersive, and that's okay. It was a pleasant way to get a brief flavor of a variety of places.

Admittedly, my travel companion had some health and mobility issues, which limited my capacity for independent exploration. In other circumstances, I might have been able to dig a little deeper into the culture.

Overall, I am glad I took the trip, but I am not particularly inclined to do it again. (I have taken other trips where I have wanted to go back and repeat the whole trip ... immediately.)

Interesting topic. A river cruise is basically a guided tour, with a short period that you “do your own thing”. The only difference from a bus tour is that you may feel compelled to return to the ship for lunch, since lunch is included in your fare. Thus eliminating an opportunity to experience the local food/culture.

What you choose to do in your free time will determine the “immersive” experience that you have. Aside from that, your experience is likely to be more educational than immersive.

your experience is likely to be more educational than immersive.

I like that sentence. I guess it comes back to our personal definitions of what immersive travel is. To me, immersive is educating myself on the local history, culture, etc., it doesn't mean I have to try and be part of the culture. I am curious now to observe my fellow shipmates; will the ship be the experience, or the locations?

River Cruise-immersive or not?

Just had to take a riff on your title.

With all the flooding we've had, and all the heavy rain this week ---- I hope not...in your case. Boats should float.