Rick's opinion on Frequent Flyer miles?

The average "Joe" isn't able to rack up business expenses like you do. Unless one is an actual frequent flier it typically does pay off for the average person. Also when you factor how the major airlines are now restricting their programs in favor of business class travelers it is indeed a game; one that gets harder to play every time consolidation occurs and and competition is reduced.

The system is designed to breed airline loyalty and are skewed in favor of business travelers. As a leisure traveler, sometimes it's better to just concentrate on getting the best fare and schedule possible each and every time, instead of letting frequent flier programs distort your decision-making process by creating bias in favor of certain airlines (on top of that, airlines are constantly manipulating values of each mile earned by increasing total miles needed or erecting schedule barriers to using them). I would venture to guess many people don't know how to calculate the value of each mile when they make trade-offs, so the "cost" of earning that mile is not matched by its value. I got fed up with those programs myself and, by my calculations, have saved money doing so. Call me an airline agnostic...

As others have said, there is a distinction between business travel and leisure travel when it comes to earning miles. Since you're getting a side benefit by the virtue of your work, you don't need to worry about "being played" and can use the program to your advantage. Average joes who don't travel much for work (or who are retired) don't rack up frequent flier miles like business travelers do.

Rick's flights are business expenses so he doesn't have to 'play that game'.

Miles are great if you travel enough for business that they rack up, but I do think the lure of miles for some breeds bad behaviors, either affecting your pocketbook or your companies to where you may not be looking at Total Cost.

I know many that religiously use their miles credit cards for as many purchases as possible. If you have the discipline to pay them off in total each month and not let the benefit of miles influence a purchase, then great, but Credit card companies are not losing money leading me to believe that many do not manage their accounts that way. When they use their miles, I don't think they may tally up what those miles cost in interest charges or dollars spent on things they could have went without.

Same thing with using miles, for me, if the flight works out, great! But to take a less than desirable schedule or destination that may cost me more in ground travel or an extra night of hotel, that has cost too. By doing some good shopping for a flight, or going the right time of year, paying cash may be better than using an extensive number of miles. For me, it has rarely worked out to use miles to go to Europe, but I have found a better use to be flying myself or the kids within the US for visits, since we all live near regional airports as opposed to hubs, basically for miles vs ticket cost, my miles have a higher value for those flights.

P.S. The goal posts keep getting moved as well.

Miles work if you know how to exploit the loopholes in the schemes and know where the best value is which rarely is exchanging for economy tickets. The best used to be with the smaller airlines as they used them as marketing tools against the big boys, but consolidation has eliminated a lot of this.

This and the effect of points inflation has taken the shine off many present day programmes. I can still manage though at the moment to travel across the Atlantic in first class at the rough cost of economy every now and again without needing to change my spending habits.

It is a bit judgmental to say mileage programs are "insulting."!!!! Rick may not "play the game", because he doesn't need to---he can afford to travel however he wants. It is none of our business how he does it. But I do take issue with him calling it "insulting" to take advantage of air miles.

It is quite possible to play the game and win (meaning score business class tickets with miles) if you are diligent and careful, and it doesn't have to mean reckless use of a credit card. We put everything on the card but buy nothing we don't need and wouldn't already purchase, and we pay it off fully every month. Because these are personal expenses, not business, it takes longer to earn the miles, but with them we are able to fly to Europe in biz class every 2 or 3 years. We do it for the sleep comfort, not the luxury amenities. We arrive there rested and able to enjoy our first day, no jet lag at all ( apart from waking up in the middle of the night once or twice).

If you travel for business, it makes sense to get miles. And those of you have never had a job where you had to fly a lot, don't really understand that those miles truly are earned. I had several years where I was I was Platinum at American. That meant that I was flying more than 60 segments a year. That means that I averaged getting on 5 different airplanes every month. I was traveling 3 out 4 weeks 7-8 months out of the year. To be honest, I didn't go for the free trips. I used the miles to upgrade my European flights. But I also appreciated other benefits. I got domestic upgrades faster which made traveling more comfortable. I really, really appreciated the fact that whenever a flight was canceled or had issues, the Aadvantage desk found me another flight very quickly. Business travel is very draining. The things that make it even a little bit more comfortable and help to get you home are what is important. And since business travelers are the foundation for airlines, can you blame for aiming the programs at business travelers?

Pam

And, yes, even after all those business trips, I went to Europe on vacation. It was the only way to really escape the 24/7 of business. Thankfully, bosses are reluctant to track down someone on a trip out of the country!

Sasha, I don't think Rick's statement about finding it 'insulting' meant insulting to the people who do play the game and use the miles, rather he meant that the airlines' handling of the whole frequent flier programs is insulting to us who use them. To them (the airlines) it really is just a game and they are forever changing the rules mid-game.

You don't get something for nothing, and credit card fees are a huge expense for any business-our largest expense after cost of goods and payroll. Rewards for some means higher costs for some others. In my work we quote a job assuming payment by credit card-we may offer you a discount for cash or check, but if you think I have not added in the credit card fees already, think again. Supporting this system is supporting the banksters more than anything, imho, and they are not your friend. I don't play that game either.

FYI-all costs are for 2 tickets
I do use an airline credit card and collect miles. I put everything I can on the card and pay it off monthly. I also call each year and have fee waived, so it costs me nothing to collect. In 2008, we flew round trip to Munich on air miles. It costs us $20.00. However, we had to take "bad" flights to get there, which meant it took us 24 hours to get from Seattle to Munich. While it was not fun, it saved us a lot of money and was worth it as we always stay for at least month.

In 2012, we used air miles to come home from Paris. Once again $20.00...lousy flights. We actually had to layover one night in Boston, so you have to factor in $125.00 for the hotel we booked for the night. (we were able to go into Boston and had a great time, so it was a worthwhile layover).

In 2014, we used our air miles to come home from London. Cost: $396.00...theses were taxes and carrier imposed fees!! We also still had lousy flights.

We are still collecting the miles, but will not longer use them to fly to Europe. I checked into all major cities in Europe that we have used, and they all collect high fees now. (although Heathrow is the most expensive). One of the issues is that most airlines use code share partners and these are the people who are tacking on high fees. For example, That $396 was a lot less than it could of been because I was able to book us on American for part of the trip home. (our miles are with American). There were better flight using British Airways, but the cost skyrocketed to almost $800. So if you are going to try and book with air miles, try to fly the airline that provided them. (good luck with that...but worth a try).

At the present time, it still costs $10 a ticket to fly domestic, so we will use up our miles that way.

For the great majority of what we pay for---groceries, gasoline, clothing, medical and dental expenses, restaurant meals, hotels, movies, rental cars, housewares, furniture, etc., there is no discount for cash and so absolutely no incentive to NOT use a credit card. We assume the cost to the retailer or business is rolled into the price. So we are paying for the privilege of using the card ( and accruing miles) whether we like it or not. Might as well get some benefit.

FWIW, where there IS a discount for cash (which I recall seeing only in Europe), we take advantage.

Also there are ways of accruing miles that do not involve flights or using a credit card. A friend of mine who is married to a doctor says he was given 8000 miles for answering a call to aid a passenger on a flight. And we have been given miles as compensation for a flight delay.

For many years, retailers in the US were forbidden from offering discounts for cash vs. credit card transactions. This was dictated by Visa and Mastercard in their agreements with retailers, to encourage use of cards. So effectively, cash buyers were paying to subisdize the 3% the card providers get for cc transactions. There was a lawsuit the settlement of which (2013?) now allows retailers to give cash discounts (or as spun by the cc companies, add a surcharge for cc purchases).

Since then, I have occasionally been offered a lower cash price for some things, but still not common. I do note, however, that RS tours gives a discount for payment by check vs cc.

I belong to several FF programs, but seldom fly with one airline enough to rack up enough points for a free ticket before they expire (or the airline expires). I do resent, however, that the cost of those free tickets that people do get are paid for by all fliers.

" I do note, however, that RS tours gives a discount for payment by check vs cc"

Yeah, he copied me ;-)

Seriously though, I'm glad to hear that. And my little rant was not intended to get people to demand cash discounts from airlines or dentists, I just really dislike the whole scheme and the societal shift behind it, so I don't chase miles and other programs.

Our credit union, BECU (Boeing Employees Credit Union) has a rewards program that racks up points that you can spend any way you want to. It is Boeing, so we can fly just about any airline using those points. The benefits aren't as great as they were in 2009 when we both flew from Albuquerque to Minneapolis (can't remember the airline), then on Iceland Air to Frankfurt via Reykjavik with a little stopover and back to Albuquerque (via Chicago) from Dublin on American (I think).

But, we did use points to fly this fall from Rome to Istanbul to Athens to Rome (via Istanbul), all on Turkish Airlines. I have also used those points for an emergency last minute flight, pricey points-wise but needed, and for many domestic flights with a little more planning.

I gave up on airline credit cards years ago when I became a member of BECU. Those points spend like money and since I have only one credit card, why not take advantage of the option? I just wish they still had the deal we first got. That round trip to Europe from Albuquerque, even with different airlines and open-jaw, was about 40,000 points each. Those were the good old days!

I hope there are other kinds of credit cards that have air travel as an option for the points you can gain. Or maybe, those of us with BECU accounts are just super-lucky.

That's not a passing comment from Rick. He has said it for years in his book Europe Through the Back Door, primarily for reasons that others have mentioned.

I have known Rick Steves for many years first meeting him at a Seattle Travel Show where he was the only one staffing his booth and giving away old copies of his guide books. I lived in north Seattle which was only a 30 minute drive from his headquarters and went up there often just to talk about European travel. When I finally started taking RS tours in 2001 (I have taken 12 in 12 years and will soon take #13) they did not accept credit cards. I remember asking up at his office why they did not take CCs and was told that Rick did not approve of the CC/mileage programs and therefore would not contribute to that situation. Well, times change. They have now taken CCs for a couple of years and I can only guess it was a business decision to increase tour particpation. So what do I do? I live in Hawaii most of the year flying back and forth to Seattle on Hawaiian Airlines and using a HA cc for milage for most charges to get a "free trip" every few years. I also put my RS tour fees onto that HA cc. I am lucky in that I have never had to make a payment on that cc's balance and have paid it off every month therefore avoiding any finance charges.

www.frugaltravelguy.com is devoted to maximizing mileage. It is stupid to ignore the possibilities. In the past 4 years I have gotten 6 round trips to Europe. Today I saved $500 in 2 round trips Denver to San Diego.

If you have good credit, there is a way to earn tens of thousands of miles for no cost.

The key to racking up miles, besides using the card for everything, is taking advantage of sign up bonuses on travel credit cards.

A couple of years ago, I got a BA Visa and the sign up bonus was 100,000 miles. Starwood Amex gave me 25,000 hotel points but I could convert those to 30,000 airline miles.

Many of the airline cards have additional benefits like a free checked bags and priority boarding. Hotel cards give free nights and executive status.

As long as you pay off the cards each month, it has no effect on your credit rating.

I am not sure why one would care what Rick thinks about flying on miles....he doesn't play the game because he is a multi millionaire that doesn't have to think about it. He flies first class regardless.....

As I fly half way across the world, first class (on miles!!!!) this year to Paris, Rick is the last thing that I am going to think about. I will be snoring, fully reclined and enjoying the amenities.

Interesting article in this month's Consumer Reports on airline mileage programs -- unfortunately only compared domestic flights.

Last winter we flew SFO-CDG/FRA-SFO for 60,000 miles each and had great flights (booked 11 months in advance when mileage flights opened up) -- but we always fly economy class since our seats get there at the same time as the ones in first class only cost a lot fewer miles

Anybody who doesn't already have a United Mileage Plus Explorer card -- they're offering a signup bonus of 50,000 miles again.

I'm not entirely a route captive when it comes to my local airport, but Delta does handle 70% of the passenger count at my local airport and the other three airline options often don't have great routes for where I want to go (yes, United, I really want to fly from Florida to London by way of Texas and pay more for that ticket). So Delta it is for most of my airplane ticket needs. And if I'm already favoring one airline for price and routing reasons, no reason to not sign up for their FF program. Despite the 'Sky Peso' reputation, I can often find pretty good redemption options from here to London/UK, Amsterdam, or Paris with a reasonable connection through ATL , and they don't do fuel surcharges or YQ on award tickets. Our next Europe trip will probably have flights covered that way.

I actually do have a fair number of United miles because they're easy to get from surveys for miles and shopping portal web sites. If I can wrangle 5K United miles for an expensive, never goes on actual sale periodical bought through one of magazines.com's special offers, why not pick up a rebate on my Monocle subscription that way? (Though United miles get used for domestic westward routings where it does make sense to connect in Texas)

For a flight to Europe on frequent flyer miles it does cost us a ton of points (Star Alliance) AND roughly $700/ticket in cash for taxes and fuel surcharges. And yes, I do find that insulting.

And don't forget, not every company allows their employees to fly business class. They purchase the cheapest tickets out there, even if it's a 20+ hrs trip to Asia or Australia. These are tickets that come with FF miles at a reduced rate and do not allow you to upgrade to business with points. And yes, I do find this insulting as well

In that case it is the employer company paying for the travel ( and providing cheap non-upgrade tickets) that is doing the "insulting", not the airline FF program.

Well, the company in this case is definitely not the most employee friendly one when it comes to business travel. But the case does still illustrate how restrictive FF plans have become - making it more and more difficult to use the points when you want to. Even if you earned them on long, uncomfortable flights.

I find that I disagree with Rick on many policy issues. I appreciate his practical travel information provided about destinations and ignore his political rantings.

Don't forget that you can use those miles for hotel stays. A couple of years ago, we spent three nights in a Dubrovnik hotel that I'd never pay for with $$, $300/night. Lovely room with sea view balcony, bountiful breakfast, free parking, top quality bathroom amenities (L'Occitane en Provence toiletries), and all-round excellent customer service.

I am not sure that I would cause opposition to frequent flyer miles a political view--it seems more like consumer decision. My sister didn't keep track of miles until she started flying regularly for business. Then, it made sense which should be no surprise as she is the target market.

I do find it despicable of companies to confiscate the frequent flyer miles of their employees. Unless you're the CEO there is no way that the company actually pays enough to compensate for the misery of airplane travel.

Pam

I do find it despicable of companies to confiscate the frequent flyer miles of their employees.

How does a company do that unless a company credit card is used, and the employee is no longer working there...or something similar? Who is actually booking the travel?

Company credit card--so they keep the miles. I wonder who then uses the miles for upgrades and all, hmmm.
Beatrix, that is an outrageous price for using your miles, 700 in taxes and fees. I have a round trip from the US to CDG for $95. It must be specific airports and higher taxes.

Bets, a large portion of the cash fee on top of the points for transatlantic flights with Air Canada goes to fuel surcharges. It's not quite that bad if you stay within the country. So we use the points mostly for shorter domestic flights. But using them to fly to Europe is anything but a good deal.

BA is also notoriously bad about surcharges if you want to fly transatlantic on their metal. Current hack to get around that seems to be to use your Avios to book flights on Air Berlin (no surcharges, just the usual unavoidable taxes) if you can make AB's American gateway cities work.

This isn't going to be the popular view, but I have to agree with Rick on this one. These "perks" that accrue mainly to business travelers are paid for by everyone in terms of higher prices of goods (the merchants who pay the higher fees so that CCs can afford to do these giveaways will just pass them down to consumers). I think many people treat frequent flier miles/points more like entitlements or status symbols than just plain perks/side benefits of using a certain credit card or flying a lot. It's odd to hear people talk about miles or business class travel as if they are some kind of marks of character or merit (reminds me of "Up In the Air" upmanship).

FF programs foster the view of "earning" something and having a right to it, which can be OK if it's on your personal credit card and you're willing to work with the program and be very flexible. However, many employees do not have any explicit contract with their employers whereby the miles they fly on work travel are "theirs" (even though they think this should be the natural order of things). Companies can do whatever they want when their own cards are being used or the travel is booked centrally through their travel departments...if this is unsatisfactory, it's time to negotiate to make this a genuine explicit perk, book your own work travel on a personal credit card (assuming the company allows this), or go elsewhere if the heavy travel demands aren't worth the salary or foregone miles. These programs are definitely a game, and consumers are often not happy when the game doesn't work in their favor when the employer or the airline or both have something else in mind (and they typically do). It seems like the loss of control breeds so much resentment and odd attachment that it's just not worth playing this kind of game.