Rick's Europe Trip Budget - How Does Your Trip Compare?

Hi Kent, one thing I have noticed, is that in these days of cheap inter Europeon airfares, the taking the train for long point to points it not worth it.
If one has a certain amount of flexibilty( so fly delays don't drive you crazy) you can save alot of money by flying , rather then taking the train. This surprised me.

example. Night train for two in a twin bed berth is 180 Euros ONE WAY , this July. I can also fly (on three different airlines that I have looked into so far) for less then 100 euros RETURN, some much cheaper.

Used to be flying was for the rich, now it seems to taking the train. LOL

While I agree with you Pat, First timers need to also take into consideration their time and effort, and decide if the trade off is worth it. Yes it might be possible to find air flights for for 30-40E cheaper, but what if you need to take 30E worth of Taxis to and from the airports (because trains don't often run to the regional airports and buses can be unreliable).

Tourists aren't the only ones that notice the prices Train companies(at least in France) are well aware of it and some good deals can be found for the poking around.

There are benefits and burdens to both kinds of travel so travellers need to consider more factors than just ticket price.

Troto, Spot on! The budget items that first timers often forget about are the "incidentals". As you said, it may be as much as 60 to 80 Euros cheaper for two people to fly to a location on a budget airline, but those airports are usually not close to the city center. The cost to get to/from the airports is an "incidental" cost (as in, not part of your plane ticket but an unavoidable cost). The trains get you to the center of the city at no extra cost.

The trains do take longer, however. This is why I recommend either getting a rental car or taking an overnight train for the long distances. With the car it's usually about the same price (including incidentals like parking and gas) to drive a car all over vs. a train. On an overnight train, you're sleeping while you move and deferring SOME of the cost of a hotel room for one night. Thus you're removing the time issue and deferring SOME of the cost.

The train vs. plane discussion is different with a family. If the plane is 30 euro cheaper, I only have to pay on 30 euro taxi -- I have to pay for 3 or 4 train tickets.

Regarding the cheap airfares on some of the newer airlines--don't forget to check their baggage allowance before buying your ticket. Some are VERY restrictive on size & weight, and will take larger/heavier lugagge only if you pay additional for it. This can turn a great airfare into a bad deal.

I think one other real cost savings issue is often overlooked. the Freq Flyer club. If you are one that likes to plan a year in advance (like me) you can save 1000$s buy planning ahead and booking those free-full flights 10-11 months in advance (econ & business!) Without getting into the credit issue - if you are responsible and can use a good card program for most everything - the points can add up a lot. Just pick one with your favorite hubs/partners (I like Miles/More - Lufthansa myself). Save 1/3 to 1/4 trip cost!

Once there - the 100$ per day seems to depend if youre in a group or not. Since double-rooms are cheaper per person, and rail can be cheaper in pairs/groups. So this is sort of in your control. On an RS Tour - its about 200-300/person/day - not including airfaire and beer/icecream/snaks etc. Youre paying probably 80-100 for the guide/service per day. So $100-$120 per person on ave budget seems fair. Students/Hostlers may get by on $75-100 if carefull

2 comments: first, frequent flyer stuff does work if you are loyal to one airline group. it is costing me 80,000 ff miles to go sfo to fra, plus fra to istanbul, round trip in july, highest fare of the year. i use a chase card, charge everything i can and pay off every month. there is also a big bonus for signing up. and i always fly united/lufthansa when i am paying for the flight.

and keep in mind that the same hotel costs half as much in april as it does in december or summer. we paid 109 euros at post hotel in garmisch last december and it's 55 a night in april (for 2 people, including breakfast), and this is a nice hotel in a good location.

same story in marburg--half as much in april as in summer or winter.

looks to me like april (after easter break) is an economical time to see germany.

On the freq/fly cards; have to concur 100%. We're going into London, out of Rome, in Apr/May, business class all the way, and cost me 80K ff miles. Like other posters, we use one card for virtually everything, pay it off monthly, and reap the rewards. Concerning car vs train vs fly within Europe, I believe there's a place for them all -depending on your itinerary/locales. I prefer train (after spending too many years flying around Europe on business) where on the short/medium train trips you see some of the countryside enroute (and not from 25K feet) with perhaps a wee dram in hand. If you're in places like Normandy (the countryside I spoke of), hard to do decently without a car. Unfortunately, the driver doesnt' get to see a lot 'cause he's concentrating on the road and foreign signs (hopefully), but the stops in those kinds of places are not far apart. Finally, Easyjet and their compadres are fine but watch the luggage charges -they'll empty your wallet.

Geoff: what airline and do you have elite status? I never have much luck using frequent flyer miles to get business class or to upgrade to business class unless I have flown enough miles to get elite status. But I am traveling enough this year that maybe I will make it.

Sherry; it's Air Canada (Aeroplan) and used to have Elite before I retired and stopped my business flying. Now just use the miles collected on a gold credit card affiliated to Aeroplan for all/all day-to-day expenditures and the business class flight cost me 20K extra miles over flying economy (80K versus 60K)

The bottom line is $100 per day in Europe for LODGING, BASIC FOOD, and ADMISSION tickets to various attractions. Breakfast is usually included with lodging.

If you like to drink beer,eat gelato, buy bottled water and tip, the $100 a day is not going to do it. If you hop on the Tube, Metro, bus, train, or grab a taxi, ferry, or an inter-continent flight, you are way over budget. Don't even think about renting a car, paying for insurance, and buying gas plus the time you waste trying to learn how to drive the car on the roads with the different transportation signs. Time is $$$. Don't buy a souvenir, phone card, use an internet cafe, or send a postcard. $100 is for the very basics.

A RS tour at $3200 a day for 14 days is $228 per day and includes lodging, breakfast, lunch or dinner most days, the guide, the bus driver, all transportation costs and all admission prices included with the tour. Beverages with meals or without meals are not included and they do add up. Plus no hassles of getting lost and wasting precious travel time. Far less stressful for me and I've done it both ways. Then if you want tip a brew on the bus, it is okay! The bus usually has beer/water/soda and charges 1-2 euros for each (a bargain over buying on the street). Tour guides often provide goodies during the duration as do many of the travelers. It's a rolling party! Airfare to and from Europe and transportation to your first hotel is NOT included. It's still a bargain!

Have fun!

Budget questions keep coming up and so I thought it was time to dust off this topic--newbies and others trying to budget may find it helpful to look at the original post in this topic thread.Here's the bottom liine: Earlier this year, Rick's ETBD editor has stated (and I quote): "Rick's office considers $100 per person per day, NOT INCLUDING ANY TRANSPORTATION on air, land, or sea and not including shopping, to be the rock-bottom travel costs for anywhere in Western Europe."While many travelers reporting in here have actual costs that are substantially higher than the rock bottom minimum of $100/day, extreme budget travelers staying in youth hostels may, possibly, be able to do it for a little less than the $100/day, which assumes two travelers sharing a "standard hotel room." Way before the dollar sank to €1.00 = $1.55, Rick said: "I'm concerned about sending people to Europe with too much confidence and not enough money."

I just looked back at a spreadsheet, analysing ATM withdrawals and credit card purchases within Europe this past May/early June when the rate of exchange averaged $1.55. We departed and returned on Tuesdays four weeks apart. Lodging was free with friends for three nights, and we spent one night on a train, Spending in Europe totaled $5,788. This excluded our plane fare, Eurailpass, and car rental purchased in advance. We actually spent 27 days in Europe for a daily per person average of $107 which included all local transportation and incidentals, and a tank of gas for a car rental. We went where we wanted to, saw what we wanted to see and thought little of budget when we were there... Our most expensive meal was 75 Euros, most expensive lodging 110 euros, cheapest other than with friends 45. We came home with almost no souvenirs. Our daily per person average was $107. We didn't feel that we were depriving ourselves of anything, but considering our free lodging, pulling down our daily average, I really wouldn't want to attempt the trip for $100 per day.

kent - i am not saying this to be rude, but why do you keep saying the same thing over and over again (re: the $100 per day budget from ETBD)?

i don't believe this to be true. If i stay in a youth hostel for $35 a night or less and then eat for $35 or less a day that there is $70. i know that there will be other costs as far as metro or attractions, but i don't think its correct to say "$100 is the rock bottom budget" and then repeat it another three times.

what's up with that?

i am hoping to make it on $75-$100 a day. if i have to go above and beyond that i will and i am able to - but i would prefer not to. i almost wonder if that ETBD quote is more reliant on hotels/B&Bs versus youth hostels.

i mean really, in most places a youth hostel is $30 with breakfast provided. add a big lunch at 10-12E late in the day and maybe an energy bar (do they have those over there?) and i don't see why you couldn't do it for $80.

the key to making it under $100 a day hinges on three things i think:
- staying cheaply in hostels
- eating very cheaply
- attraction cost and money getting around town.

i will be keeping a blog and i am going to attempt to keep up with all my spending so that i can report back here when i return. i'm not going to hard core it, because if for some reason i want to splurge one day i will, but for the most part i'm going to try and do it on the cheap.

and p.s. kent - even though you deleted one, there are still three other posts saying the same thing not including the one you just wrote ; ) . it's okay, i get that you're wanting to make sure people understand so that they don't get in trouble.

Lisa: We're not disagreeing. The Rick Steves/Europe Through the Backdoor estimate of $100/day rock bottom was not intended to apply to someone staying in youth hostels all or most nights: that person can significantly reduce their per day cost by staying in hostels and may well be able to do a trip for a little less than the $100/day. The $100/day figure has been previously discussed here and I believe was understood by most of us to apply to two people traveling together and staying in a "standard hotel room" similar to those booked by the RS Tours and not a youth hostel.

oh - my bad

It really depends on who is traveling and where, and how. The formula Rick Steves uses is based off a rather high (in my opinion) average accommodation cost. That is usually the biggest factor, since it is usually the biggest expense, and it happens everyday (save the instances of staying with friends, family, or when it is coupled as transportation).

My upcoming trip is certainly looking to be considerably under $100/day/person (excluding airfare to/from Europe). My most expensive accommodation is a eur60/night B&B in Rome, while the average overall works out to something like $30/person/night, none of which are in dorms. I guess it really depends on standards. I've seen people on here saying their max budget a night is ~eur300+/night, which personally I couldn't fathom.

Most people just need to crunch more numbers than they think, especially when traveling on a tighter budget.

steven - i'm interested . . . are you staying in B&B's for $30 a night or is that a room with two or three people in it? wondering how your non-dorm cost is so low.

Maybe I'm confused. $100 (USD) a day. So if one spends in Rome 60 euros (approx $80 USD) for B & B. That leaves $20 (USD) left of your $100 USD budget to eat, drink and see things that cost for the rest of the day. For young people who are use to hitting coffee bars or want a beer, I don't think so.

You are going to live on energy bars (yes they do sell them --- they are cheaper at the grocery markets as is food)? You won't be eating in restaurants/cafes, you'll be eating out of the grocery store.

Lisa,

I might add that the daily rate depends a lot on which countries you are visiting. The daily rate for Greece on average is less than Italy (unless you are staying in Mykonos). Ditto, Portugal is less than France...but if you stay in smaller towns/cities in France, Germany, Spain or even England, you can travel for considerably less than the "average" traveler visiting Paris, London, Munich, or Barcelona. To put it all in perspective, the original "Europe on $5.00 a Day" was written when the $ was worth at least twice as much (in some cases 3 times as much as other Euro currencies)...so lets say it would be $12.50 without inflation...since 1970, inflation has driven up the cost of almost everything...cars by about 700%, gasoline 1500%, cup of coffee $.10 vs at least $1.00, candy bars by 1000%, bread (wonderbread) about 700%, etc. So, take the $12.50 inflate it by 700% and you get $87.50...which I believe is representative of the kind of travel you are talking about.

Well, I don't really care for estimates in US$ as the conversion rate against the Euro changes constantly. It makes it difficult to compare a post from June to one done only 6 months earlier to one made today. I have no problems calculating in Euros.

But if you like another budget point for travelling families: our recent trip to Italy was Cdn$106 ppd including EVERYTHING other than air fare to Italy. And that was by far our most expensive trip to Europe to date which for us confirms that it also depends which country in Europe you travel to. On average our trips were more around $60-80 ppd - those are trips to Germany, Switzerland, France over the past 5 years.

As a family you can reduce your budget by renting appartments instead of hotels and by taking the car. Yup, I dare use a car for most trips. Though I do enjoy the occasional splurge of a train ride (usually only when it's not the entire family going on a side trip).

Rick's guesstimate of typical trip costs from the Planning section of Best of Europe 2008:lodging $65/day/person (2 people sharing a €100/night typical "Rick pick" accommodation, using his too low exchange rate of $1.30)food $35/day/person (free breakfast, $10 lunch, $5 snack, $20 dinner/person)sightseeing $10 per major sight, $3 per minor sight$25/day/person for what he calls "splurge experiences" such as tours or concerts--he suggests: don't skimp here, it's an important part of why you're going to Europe in the first placetransportation within Europe: he says train is difficult to give a typical cost for, too many variablescar rental: $250/week/person is his rough average cost for car rental, cheaper in Germany, more expensive in Italy, etcNote that Rick's 2008 book used €1.00 = $1.30 thus (to be technical) his $ costs given above are about 15% too low ($0.20 / $1.30 = 15%) since the actual exchange rate in 2008 has been more like $1.50 than the $1.30 used in his 2008 book.

audrey - i don't plan to live on energy bars. i plan to eat 2-3 meals a day and supplement with energy bars where needed. breakfast for many of the hostels is included. i'm not really a 3 meal a day eater - more like two. you're right, i don't plan on eating the majority of my meals in a sit down restaurant - only maybe 2-3 a week. i hope to eat more 'the slice of pizza' or sandwich or whatever.

we'll see.

Lisa,

My $30/person/night average is for different types of rooms, usually doubles (maybe a twin if I'm unlucky), shared bathroom (actually it's about 50/50 for shared and private). Only a couple of them are B&B. Places in Greece, France (Paris, Roussillon, Avignon, Arles: all are surprisingly inexpensive for me), and Turkey really help keep the costs down, where it is very possible to get a double, with breakfast, with bathroom, at a nice, central location for $35-60/night. Split that amongst two people, and have most places places like that, it really helps balance out places that are a bit more, such as Roman B&Bs.

Hmmmm..how do children figure into that? We have 6 for our trip, and I am not budgeting $600 per day (although I am budgeting a fair amount.) Our most expensive lodging for all of us is 135 euro a night.

If you go to England, your expenses will be higher per day thatn $100 USD. We traveled to England/Wales for 3 weeks in June and even though we ate food from breakfast for lunch, bought sandwiches at the grocery store, etc. our expenses were still over $100 per day. The pound was 2.07 pound to the dollar so if something cost 4.99 pound it was $10.00 USD. We enjoyed our trip but the costs just doubled on everything whether it be hotel - 70 pound = $140.00 USD or food. If a hamburger at McDonald's (which we did NOT eat at) cost 4.99 pound it was a $10.00 hamburger. It's hard to stay under $100 if you go to England/Wales. Still, we wouldn't have changed a thing. We're glad we went when we were able to.

A few weeks ago I had some pm me about my budget on the 14 day trip I just got back from. As far as budget goes I didn't break it down in to catagories but I paid for 10 nights lodging solo(4 of the nights I stayed iwth a friend0, all my food, ground trasportation, museums, castels, canal tours and boat ride for $1800, plus the cost of my plane ticket. I flew open jaw. That average to $129 a day for everything. I don't buy a whole lot of "things" to bring home but I do take alot of pictures.

I did alot of reserch and alot of planing. It was only my 2nd trip to Europe but I really enjoyed myself.

$125/person/day for a couple paying for standard Rick Steves type sleeping accommodations and eating one sit-down-restaurant meal a day. That's hotel $75/day/person hotel (€100/night hotel), food $35/day/person, and $15/day/person average entry to attractions: If you tweak Rick's budget costs from his 2008 Best of Europe book, to correct for his too low exchange rate (his $1.30 vs the actual $1.50), his budget cost benchmark for 2 adults eating one sit-down-restaurant type meal per day and not staying in youth hostels or other extreme budget lodging is:$125/person/day and that's an average including "typical" (whatever that means) accommodations, food, and admissions to attractions$125 would be the mean or average, thus 50% would be somewhat less than $125/person/day and 50% would be somewhat higher than $125.To get a budget for a total trip cost you'd add to the $125/person/day your estimated cost of:airfare over/backall ground transportation within Europe - train, rental car, busshoppingmisc such as travel insurance, etc.Above is for Western not Eastern Europe--but if your itinerary is heavily weighted to high cost for hotel destinations such as London, Venice & Amsterdam then your per day cost will tend to be higher.

My Husband and I are off to France, Switzerland and Germany for month of April. We were VERY lucky to find a flight that cost $525.00 ea (tax and verything included) US Round trip from our home airport (GSP) to Frankfurt...WOW! We love that!
With LOTS of internet time I have found hotels from $52.00 US (special price staying in Ibis Hotel in the Loire Valley) 3 nights and a studio in Paris for $102.00 including tax). We will save a bit eating in, cooking ourselves. This based on $1.35 exchange rate.
We almost always share a dinner and buy a roll and bottled drink for our breakfast. We are buying a rail pass ($700 US !!! for both of us) and hope we won't break the bank. I will report back in May as to how much we spent and what hotels we found. That is a key, finding comfy digs for under $100 US.

We can't wait to see all those beautiful things and places. Check back later!

Back before kids (6 years ago), my husband and I budgeted $100/day for both of us and would still come back with money left over. We stayed in a lot of small towns, usually staying in places that Rick recommended, that cost anywhere between $20-$40/night for a double. We'd get breakfast there, grab bread and cheese for lunch, and have a sit-down dinner somewhere. We didn't skimp on admissions or souvenirs.

Agreed, the exchange rate and inflation has changed things. But has he also changed the level of accommodations that he recommends? A double that costs $100 is not my idea of a budget accommodation, unless it's in a major city. I've found much cheaper places on the internet.

The last time we went to Europe, we only had one child, who was 3 at the time, so we were still able to book doubles and either have a cot for him or pile up a bunch of blankets to make a bed. Now, with 2 kids, finding accommodations is a LOT different. We're having to do apartments and make a home base for a week.

Well, I can tell you from my experience that it is better to plan for $200 per day, and have money left over. I know that sounds awful, but there are a few things that can ruin an otherwise great trip: hurting feet, not getting any sleep, being stuck sharing a saver pass with a person you no longer can stand, and constantly worrying about money. I remember once being on a train to Munich. I was coming in a day early, but that was OK. A young asian lady sat across from me on the train. She burst out crying, saying that the room she had found was 15 euros more than she had budgeted to pay. The last I saw of her, she was in the train station calling everything the TI gave her. I just called my little budget Rick Steve's special, said I was coming in a day early and did they have a room? I knew if I HAD to I could use my rail pass for a night train (horrors for sure). They found me a room ( a funky room with a tub but no toilet) and I had an extra night in the city. Allow some wiggle room so that you can enjoy the time you are there. :^)

When my wife and I travel through Europe, we easily limit our expenses to $100 per day by staying in B&B (really eating a lot) and then purchase sandwishes at grocery stores and fruit in the mid afternoon. Esther

I was solo in Europe (England, Ireland, Spain, and France) for 42 days last summer and was fortunate to stay with family for 25 nights and in hostels (13 nights) and small hotels (4 nights) for the other 17 nights. I kept detailed records of how much I spent and what I spent it on. I spent $3100 (excluding ALL transportation). That's $74 per day. If you exclude the money I paid for lodging it goes down to $58 per day. So that means if you can spend less than $42 per night lodging (about 28 Euro), then you can get by on $100 per day. If you are curious, my food budget was breakfast in the hostel (usually toast and OJ, not that filling) a light lunch (sandwich, pizza slice), and a decent dinner (around 18-20 Euro) 2 -3 times per week.

My husband and I would never make it on $100/day. He likes to eat at very nice restaurants and always have wine. We like to stay in very nice hotels or apartments. I figure if I can have it paid for before I leave (except for meals and souvenirs, etc.), I can handle it. We try to fly in business with FF miles, but are paying this year to fly super cheap in economy (and accumulate FF miles). If we need to skip a year to be able to afford to travel how we want, we will do that.

My husband and I will be in Europe in May/early June for 24 nights...Italy-Switzerland-Austria-Hungary. I have been planning our 1st trip to Europe for almost a year, using the internet and guide books for most planning. My husband's only request has been that wherever we stay he wants a private toilet/shower! We will stay with family in Hungary for 6 nights, so 18 nights in hotels. After extensive research, reading reviews, and choosing areas that seem safe and fairly close to the things we want to see & do (to avoid wasted time and cost of additional transportation), our hotels range from $103/night for a double in Gyor, Hungary to $200 in Venice. I definitely tried to find the least expensive, and all are "no frills"! Most, but not all, include breakfast. We have booked tours through Viator in Milan, Salzburg, Vienna, Venice(2), & Rome. We are planning to book the Mt. Pilatus tour in Lucerne and a day trip tour from Florence to Sienna, San Germiano, & Pisa when we arrive at those places. We have purchased a Eurail Select Saver Pass. Hotels, Tours & Eurail Pass are paid for in advance. Not including the 2 additional tours, I was planning on budgeting $100.00/day for meals (we don't do expensive restaurants), souvenirs, tips, & miscellaneous. Do you think that will be enough? Also, our Eurail Pass is for Italy, Switzerland, Austria & Hungary. I just realized that our train from Lucerne to Salzburg will go through a small portion of Germany. Will we need to buy an extra train ticket for this? Thank You for any comments.

About your $100/day budget for food & misc. I'll address the food part, (misc. can be anything you want). Rick's opinion is that in 2009 it's possible for a couple to eat for $40/person in most countries, with Italy, Switzerland, and Britain being more expensive than that. His $40 is $25/person for dinner and $15/lunch, with a free breakfast at your hotel. This is in his 2009 ETBD book.

My wife and I traveled in Italy in Oct. 2007 for 18 days and 16 nights and using the 16 days spent 342.00 per day for the two of us including our planfare and rental of a car.We shared the car with another couple.We ate well and did everything we wanted to do.I have found one moneysaving idea is to eat your main meal at noon.There are two reasons I like this.(1)the noon meal is much cheaper and just as good.(2)I dont like eating my main meal at 7-9 at night.This is when the Italians eat and many places arent open until 7Pm or later.

This thread helped me plan my recent trip, so I thought I'd add this expense report from my 13-day trip to Amsterdam, Brugge, Ghent, and Genk (Belgium) in late April and early May 2009.

I averaged $109/day for food, lodging, and local transport. Train travel between cities and for day trips increased that to $135/day. I'm 48, female, and frugal but not willing to stay in a hostel dorm.

LODGING: paid an average of €62/$83 per night. This was for one person in older, small hotels with steep stairs. All rooms had at least a sink in them. Three of the five had a toilet and shower as well, and one had a refrigerator and microwave. All provided a breakfast of bread, deli meat, cheese, orange juice, hard-boiled egg, and coffee. Some had free wifi but usually I had to sit in the lobby to get the signal. I felt comfortable and safe in all rooms and neighborhoods, though two of the rooms were a little dingy.

FOOD: €17/$23 per day. I rarely ate in restaurants. I bought groceries or ate sandwiches to go. Most expensive meal: bland chicken korma in Brugge for €25. Most delicious meal: traditional focaccia, salad, and a café latte at the Genk, Belgium, public library for €8.

TRANSPORT:

- Trams, city buses: €2/$2.65 per day
- Intercity trains (many, including a trip to Germany): €234/$309 total

MUSEUMS: My daily average doesn't include the cost of the one museum I went to. This wasn't really a financial decision; I just don't enjoy most museums. I mostly looked at at sights and watched people during the day, and at night I went to free or inexpensive folk dances, where I met friendly locals.

I have always thought Ricks guide for loging is too low....
depending on where you are staying and where you are travling.

100-150 per day without logding is pretty bang on. Again depending on how luxurious you are traveling.

above post: "I have always thought Ricks guide for lodging is too low."Rick's trip budget in ETBD 2009 is based on a hotel room of $150/night, which he expresses in that section of his book as $75/person based on a couple sharing the $150/night room.

Kent, lets all try to keep this post, and your post about travel times near the top of the forums. While there are plenty of people who can "bring it in" under the suggested budget total, and many who find it totally inadequate for their travel style, it's an excellent starting point for the average or first time traveller. Yes, you can get a great hotel for well under $150 a night. We will be staying in Italy for 17 days in May and our average cost for hotel is 68.75 euro for double rooms. Basically 45$ per person per day for hotels, a convent stay and an apartment. Of course I booked all of those places in January---- so someone booking in March or April or now would find them booked and have to look for something else that would likely be more expensive. What I think Kent is trying to tell people is to get an idea of what an "average" trip might cost and to begin thinking about their budget before making plans. How sad it would be to get to Italy and have no money left for museums, and a few nice meals and other experiences. Yes you can have a fabulous trip for less than Rick's average IF you're willing to do a LOT of pretrip research and careful and early planning.

Hello. I will be traveling with 4 ladies to Europe for one month from October 1-30 2009. We have all already bought our roundtrip tickets to the USA. We have already paid for our intercontinental flights within Europe. We will be renting QUAD rooms so we will all share the same rooms. We have already paid for our B&B in Dublin the first 3 days we are there, and we have already paid for a house rental in Dingle. With regards to spliting accomodation costs, the only places we have left to pay for our rooms are in Florence Italy for 8 days, and Southern Germany for 6 days. We plan on staying in a convent in Florence Italy and a B&B in Germany. The most extrvagant thing we will be doing is a high tea at the Ritz in London. Question.Even thought we are sharing cost of accomodations, and since my sister is covering my expenses, do you think we two women can survive on a 6000 dollar budget for the month we are in Europe? Thank you, or is this way too low? We don't plan on spending much on suvenirs. I may buy a history book here and there. Thank you Lily

There have been a number of "what will (parts of) my trip cost" in the last couple of days. Here's a link to a summary of Rick's thinking on that:

http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm/rurl/topic/37789/how-much-will-my-trip-cost.html

In the last couple of days there have been a number of "what will (parts of) my trip cost" questions posted.

This is a frequently asked question. None of us can predict your trip cost, but here's a link to some guidelines based on data collected by Rick's organization:

http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm/rurl/topic/37789/how-much-will-my-trip-cost.html

Lily,, 6000 dollars is about 4000 euros.. so 2000 euros each,, for food and sights for 30 days,, and accomadation for 16 days( since you have prepaid part of trip)

Even with a lot of picnics,,I would think that was too tight.Travel between cities can add up,, and sites themselves cost..plus you need metro or bus tickets occaisonally,, and tea at the Ritz.. lol I hope its filling, it will take about 2 days of your food allowence.. LOL

Is there anyway you could scrape a bit more money together..?

My wife and I leave on the 17th for 10 days in London, Paris, and Normandy. We had figured that we can spend $2000 during the ten-day trip, but then realized that it would cost us $600 to keep our 4 cats in jail while are away. We'll still make it okay, but will have to put more things on the credit cards instead of paying cash.

Lily,

many posters here have managed to travel through Europe on $100/day just fine which Rick Steves considers the rock bottom and which is the amount you have - and you only have to cover half of your accommodations with that. On our last trip to Italy we spent $105/person/day including everything other than airfare to Europe with accommodations at a 3* level. We were also travelling as a group of four so we could limit our accommodation cost to an average of 25 Euro/person/night even while travelling in high season and that was very helpful. And it was at a time when the exchange for the Euro was even worse than it is today. This can allow for one or two splurges but you have to cut back on other days then. Never cut back on entry fees for sights, though. That's what you came for!

1. Jim makes a good point about the cost of the kennel for the cats. Your expense list needs to include any extra expenses at home because of your trip---house sitter, kennel, someone to water your lawn, etc. However, you can offset some of the meal expenses by factoring in what you are NOT spending on groceries at home.

2. The expense list probably doesn't include wine or beer with dinner.

3. If you are uncomfortable in airline seats, you might want to buy earlier when you can still find two on the side seating or possibly seats with extra leg room. You might feel the extra comfort is worth the $100-200 savings you might get later.

We are leaving in 7 days for a 23 day trip to Rome and Germany. The average per night room rate is $179. That is figuring the exchange rate at $1.50. Breakfast is included. Three nights will be spent at friends house in Germany. We are at $89.50 per person just for the room and one meal a day. Add an additional $2500 for sightseeing, trains, buses, and food. Appears we are going to be close to $150 per person a day, that includes our airfare since we used our points for first class tickts.

Hi Kent,

Just wanted to say that you can easily travel to Europe for less than RS guidlines. We are going this fall (and have done many trips in October to Bavaria, Austria and Italy/Dolomites for less every time). This year... we're looking at about $170 a day pp average with the car and airfare included. We stay in nice, family owned pensions, have dinner out every night, etc. This year will cost us just about 3K for both of us for a 9 night trip from NY to Munich, car, etc.

Paul

Paul: Thanks for giving us the word, and keep up the good work on cost containment. It's not surprising, of course, since Rick's number is an estimate of the average cost; average meaning--well, you know--the point at which half of travelers costs are lower and half higher.

Funny thing, we usually hear from the half who have lower trip costs than Rick's average, but don't often hear from the other half, bragging that their cost was higher. (well, there've been a few candid souls here).

In the same trip cost section of his book, Rick gives an estimate of the lower range of cost, for budget travelers, of roughly $105 to $110/day/person. (His numbers assume an exchange rate of €100 = $150)

As I see it, there are two ways to figure how much a trip will cost: 1) How much can I afford? I will fit my trip expenses within budget limitations by choosing lodgings, meals and activities that I can afford. And: 2) How much money do I need? I will find the money needed or stay home. How much money is needed is highly personal, depending on what level of travel is expected. A person who will only travel the 4-star way can expect to spend more than the person who economizes by staying at hostels and mostly picnicks for meals.

I find that I always have extra expenses that I hadn't thought of: internet, phone, newspapers and other reading materials, tips, bakery goods, a cup of coffee or glass of wine.... These fit within my budget, because I travel with a clear idea of how much money I can spend.

I travel alone and never spend the average of $185 a day; I try to stay close to $100 and it's probably closer to $125.

On RS tours I usually spend a maximum of $100 a week for meals etc not covered by the tour. BTW, the last couple of tours I've taken, the drinks at meals were included. In the past, various awkward methods of getting tour members to buy their own drinks were tried. I prefer to have them included, along with all tips. On the first couple of RS tours I took (2000 & 2001), the guide collected a "voluntary" sum of money from each tour member for "extras." Now, the tours cost more, and include more, but there are no more collections. My last RS tour was in 2008.

Thank you for this...I guess I didn't look close enough at my book. I'll check his 2010 budget in the book. Sounds like I wasn't too far off with my $200/day. I wasn't considering lodging in that number as I figured lodging to be fixed once I locate where we'll stay and either pay in advance or have my cash prepared. The $200/day was for 2 of us to eat, shop, sightsee, local transportation.

I'll keep looking. THANKS!

Holy cow, this goes on and on! Suspect that I've made more trips, over more years, than any other poster. Three trips in past twelve months alone, all of about three weeks. (This was a light year for Europe due to trips to S. Amer and Asia.) First, forget the RS sleeping ideas. Eating is where you want to; don't think to much of his ideas there, either, but so what. On each trip, I drove a car the whole way; thus parking is included as are cross-channel ferries under "misc". Two people on each trip. Except for the UK, never stayed where anybody spoke english and rarely saw an english menu. No hotels were flea-bags, just ones not used by Americans. Only saw Americans at some of the tourist sights. Toll roads and attraction entrance fees are included (but most museuems had been visited earlier and not repeated). Souvenirs not included. Supper was sit-down (nice, not extravagant), breakfast and lunch was from grocery bag in back of car (but coffee/beer were purchased). No hostels except for a couple of nights in remote parts of Wales. Here's the breakdown average per person for each trip:

Two guys, Germany, Belgium, England, Wales, France. Euro was $1.25, pound $1.50. One night in London, three in Paris. Supper $20, breakfast $2, lunch $3, car $16, gas $11, hotel $21 misc $26. Total was $98, so a tad off.

Self and wife, Spain, France, Italy. Euro was $1.35. Three nights in Madrid, one each in Nice, Cannes, two each in Milan and Florence, four in Rome. Meals $26, car $14, gas $16, hotel $26, misc $8. Total was actually $91.

Self and wife, Germany, France, Belgium, Netherlands, England. Euro was $1.40, pound $1.55 Three nights in Amsterdam. Meals $29, car $18, gas $12, hotel $22, misc $18. Total $99.

Note that this includes local transportation. Get in arguments over car vs train, but for two, it's cheaper and more spontaneous/flexible, plus I get to see more since each train trip has three hours of dead time getting to/from station, waiting,

since each train trip has three hours of dead time

Where do you get these numbers. If that is really your experience, you don't know what you are doing. I've spent over 100 days traveling by train and bus in Europe this decade, and that does not agree with my experience.

Last November, for example:
FRA to Mosel: 5 min change in Mainz. Could have changed in 19 min in Koblenz but spent longer for lunch.

Cochem to Bad Harzburg:
Could have changed in Köln in 7 min, scheduled 2 hrs to see the catherdral and have lunch. 9 min change in Hannover.

Walkenried to Karlsruhe:
6 min change in Nordheim

Karlsruhe to Mainz:
Direct train, no change

My lodging on the Mosel was a 10 min walk, at most, from the station. In Braulage, the bus stopped in front of the lodge. In Bad Herrenalb, my lodging was about 50 yds from the station. You probably spend more time stopped at signals than I do getting to/from the station.

4 trips, 46 min "dead time" not 12 hrs! I probably would have spent more than 46 min renting a car and returning it.

BTW, best car quote was $650 w/ fuel. I actually spent less than $250 for tickets; tickets for 2 would have been less than twice that since I used Länder tickets for some of my travel.

Keeping in mind that over the years and I mean YEARS of Europe trips (all in the summer), I would say that the final cost of a trip depends on the exchange rate and the local inflation, whether in DM, Francs, Krones, Schillinge, or zlotys, OR Euros to the dollar and the prices in a particular place, such as Paris is way more expensive than BERLIN; Munich, Vienna, Dusseldorf are expensive, and especially LONDON, and certainly staying in some of the DJH hostels or at an independent hostel is almost the same as in a Pension except 10-15 euros cheaper and if you don't mind the noise.

Three times to Poland, 2001,2003, 2005, (all in the summer),and each time the exchange rate to the dollar was worse than the time before. But their inflation was not noticeable.

As for eating I eat in train station eateries, chinese restaurants, or asian Imbisses, small French, Polish, German, British, Austrian, Swedish restaurants, DJH hostels, taverns, or regular restaurants--some touristy--a few times I spurge, mostly I keep to a budget.

As regards to accomodations, I have stayed in hostels, student dorms, Pensionen, two and three star hotels--they vary in price, depending on the establishment, the town, city, special/promo offers. I always use a Eurail pass, or two, take public transportation, never rent a car, and by the time that pass has expired, it has been ridden into the ground; only twice in 1995 and 1997 did I conclude that I had lost money on the pass. And, I do a tremendous amount of walking, especially in the summer of 2009 trip, in the cities I'm visiting.

Lastly, your expenses in France are going to be higher if you just stay in Paris. When you head into the towns and cities of northern France, such as Amiens, Arras, Peronne, Compiegne, Beauvais, Cambrai, Albert, the prices come down, especially in a restaurant.

Most of the time I travel solo, which makes it easier to track my expenses.

Dead time for train = three hours: time to get from hotel to train, time buying tickets, time waiting for train since you got there early so you won't miss it, time to get from train to new hotel, time train sitting in station at intermediate stops

Dead time for car = zero hours: walk out the door, start motor; at new place turn off motor and walk in door

PLUS, with a car you can stop if something strikes your fancy along the way , plus your stuff is stashed in the trunk and you don't have to tote it around or look for a place to store it

PLUS with a car the cost is constant regardless of exactly when you travel; i.e., you ain't restricted by bought-in-advance-cheaper-train tickets

PLUS with car no need to sleep by noisy train station or in the more expensive center of the place

example of flexability: last spring was headed for Italy, planned to deplane in western Germany -- actually deplaned in SW Spain -- no problem, snagged car and three days later (vice two planned) picked up my proposed itineray in Marseille -- coming back, spent three days in Madrid which herself had never seen before --the car made me a hero in my own darn house -- take that!

Oh, and about that 100 days in a decade? I spent 96 days this YEAR in Europe and, as previously stated, that was was a light year for Europe. You're going to do quick math and say that three three-week trips are only something like sixty-five days. True. The other month I was alone and the cost was way the heck over a hundred bucks a day (not being able to divide the car and gas by two, you see) and didn't feel that had squat to do with the previous postings of "two people sharing". Plus, I've been in and out of europe for more than fifty years, and I vaguely remember something else.... oh, yeah ....that doesn't count the three years I lived there.

That's over 100 days of travel using public transportation.

I don't consider intermediate stop time when I have lunch as dead time, because even it if had a car, I would stop for lunch anyways. It would probably take longer since I'd have to search for a place. Not counting lunch stops, in 2008 I spent 46 min, total, in 13 days changing trains. Last year I spent 30 min in Innsbruck, but I had a pasty and coffee and used the city Internet access, so I don't know how you would qualify that, but 76 minutes of "dead time" in 27 days = about 3 MIN not 3 hrs per trip!

The only time I have ever heard train noises, I picked the location on other factors, not that I was using the train. Although I have spent more for a night to be close to the airport (maybe I should drive to Europe, not fly), I have never spent more because I wasn't driving.

I always carefully map out my itinerary in advance (even in this country with a car). I have never failed to be on a train which I had planned to be on. In the two cases where I used purchase-in-advance discount tickets, I was traveling from morning to dinner time (all for €29), and that was about the only time I could take. Most of the rest of the time has been by Länder tickets, no restriction. It rarely takes me more than about a minute to buy a ticket.

I had coffee and a pastry on the ICE between Köln and Hannover; didn't have to stop. In August I took the cograil train up to the top of the Wendelstein and came down the cable car (my Privatzimmer was a couple hundred yards from the base station). If I had had a car, I would have had to backtrack to pick it up.

Finally, using public transportation make dollars and sense. I spent $1400 on the ground this year. For the three previous trips I saved $1700 by not renting a car (several car company quotes, fuel estimate from ViaMichelin, actual fares). And that did not include CDW, which I don't think I would ever dare to do without. So, I saved enough my first three trips to pay for my fourth trip. I don't have unlimited finances; if I want to keep going back, I have to save where I can, and that includes not wasting money on non-essentials, like car rental.

Jennifer L----Not sure whether your question on having to buy a train ticket for the distance (from Lucerne-Salzburg) not covered by the PASS was indeed answered...YES, you would have to buy a ticket to cover that portion of the route, do this at the ticket counter in Lucerne (Luzern) and tell them that you have a Pass that does not include Germany. You will just have to pay for the German part of the route, since when you cross into Austria, that part is picked up by your Pass.

I like to break-even in using a day on the Pass, roughly figure out how many euro each day is on the Pass compared to the cost of the whole Lucerne-Salzburg ride. This answer was probably too late to help you.

I hate paying four to five dollars a gallon (that's 3.78 liters) for gas and above all, paying a toll for using the freeway as you do in France but not in Germany, where you can kicked it up to 180-190 km per hr.

Having a coffee and pastry on an ICE train in its Bord Restaurant is definitely a pleasant experience.

I've found when looking at RS tours that they're advertised as 14 day tours but the 1st day is dinner and orientation, and the last day you disband after breakfast. To me, this is more like a 12 day tour, so if you divide the cost by 12, it comes out to be considerably more than if divided by 14. I haven't taken a RS tour, and I know everyone thinks they're great, but some of them turn out to be high 200s or low 300s when taking off the first and last days. Kinda pricey Rick!

Fred, it is possible to go from Luzern to Salzburg without going through Germany. I know people who have done it.

Most tours are worse than that! My wife regularly gets alum tour brochures, and they regularly define day 1 as the day you leave the U.S., day 2 as the day you arrive. On my own organized trips, I usually arrive on the morning of the first day and have the whole day, albeit jet-lagged. I leave on the last morning, so the first and last day are really one. Instead count the nights. However, these alum tours are usually 5-6 times what I spend per actual day in Europe, compared to 3-4 times for a RS tour. I still wouldn't go on an RS tour, but I think they are better than most.

For the last 6 yrs I have traveled to Europe dble occupancy w/o airfare for less than $100 pp during summer months(even w/ lousy xchg rates)
Yes it can be done BUT it is not easy and requires being disciplined!!!!!
So for general budget guidelines why not say $100-150.00 per day pp when 2 are traveling. That way travelers can budget for $150 and maybe actgually try and spend less. We want travelers to go to Europe to experience its greatness!!!!

Thanks for the tip, Lee. According to the DB website, if you wanted to, you could through Germany with the train stopping at Konstanz and Radolfzell am Bodensee (which I have only been to once). I suppose it depends upon which route you take to go from Lucerne to Salzburg.

I must agree with OMITTING the cost of the flight from the total trip calculations. If you're flying into London for trip lasting from 21 june to 6 August, for example, no doubt that flying into Paris would be much more expensive, at least from Calif., into Frankfurt less than Paris.

If you always take your trip over there in the summer--that is a constant variable--you know that the summer of 2008 was absolutely horrible when it came to calculating how much you would spend because of the exchange: euro/dollar and pound/dollar. From SFO to CDG the flight during this summer was $2,200 with Air France, in June 2009 to London from SFO was around $947 (with Br. Airways)

If you were in Europe in the summer, ie. high season, every year since 2001 for the same length of time, I would bet that your total expenses would increase every summer due the falling value of the $ to the euro and pound. Measuring the total cost of your trip---if you want to do that in the first place--
should only be done in euro. The inflation rate in their countries is practically not noticeable.

If you go back to hotels in Paris that charge 75 euro since the first time you were there, multiply that by a worsening exchange rate and of course the cost for that room would be higher in dollars than it was in the past, even though room price in euro did not change. Think in euro. How do you off set that? Stay at a hostel or student dorm?? Maybe, or find a cheaper hotel, depending on your expectations and level of luxury. Look for special or promo offers.

Aside from the places to eat posted above, if you want to keep expenses down, eat at the university cafeterias--in Germany it is called die Mensa---some of which are open to the public, such as in BERLIN. (I've only done this option once as a traveler...in Kiel.)

Jennifer L (and Fred),
There are a lot of ways to get from Luzern to Salzburg, including going into Germany at Basel or around the west end of Bodensee, but I think the most common would be Luzern -> Zürich -> St. Galen -> Bregenz -> Lindau -> Munich -> Salzburg. However, that would require a lot of travel in Germany, and your pass does not include Germany. You'd have to buy the German part extra.

However, you can get to Salzburg without going "through" Germany. From Luzern, you can go to Buchs, Switzerland, then through Liechtenstein (included with Austria on a Eurail pass) and the Austrian Tirol (St. Anton) to Innsbruck.

From Innsbruck you have two options. You could go the slow, scenic way entirely through Austria via Zell am See and Schwarzach-St. Veit, around the east side of Berchtesgaden. You could also take an Austrian EuroCity train (ÖEC) from Innsbruck, non-stop from Kufstein to Salzburg. Those trains actually go through Germany (Rosenheim), but do not stop and are considered an Austrian route and included in a Eurail pass including just Austria.

I've said this repeatedly, but maybe there's a high turnover on this site. The only accounting of expenses in Europe that is meaningful to someone else is Euro/day without airfare.

When you include airfare in your expenses/day, you are just confusing the issue, making your expenses completely irrelevant for someone else. It matters totally from where to where. Do you really think you can fly from the west coast to Rome as cheaply as Boston to Dublin? How long? A $1000 airfare over a short 10 day trip adds $100 per day; over 4 weeks adds only $36/day. What time of year? What year? Did you use FF miles and pay nothing?

I just got a "fare alert" about "new, low fares" to Frankfurt. The lowest I could find was $695 RT, in March. Last July I bought a ticket from Denver to Munich RT in August/Sept for $530. I expect by next August, I'll be lucky to find anything under $1000.

So, leave airfare out of your calculations. They can look for their own airfare (they're going to have to anyway) and add it to the total.

Secondly, report your expenses in Euro/day. Nothing else is significant. I could tell you how many dollars/day I spent in 2000, when the Euro was 89¢, but that would have no relevance today. Over the last five years (4 trips), my expenses in USD have varied by 41% ($78-$110 per day). But in Euro they have only varied by 19% (€63-€75 per day). Reporting in Euro takes the exchange rate out of the equation.

There are other factors to consider as well. Were you alone or sharing expenses? What country? Did you stay only in big cities or get out into smaller towns? Do you stay in 5* hotels or in hostels or rooms? Do you have two sitdown meals a day or dumpster dive? Do you use economical public transportation or do you splurge on a car?

$185/day seems a reasonable ball-park figure for a first timer to budget off (given current exchange rate of 0.66 euro/US$). Accepting that cost clearly depends on a lot of factors including how much you move, what regions you stay, the time of year, and how luxurious you go.

My husband and I visited Wales, England, France, Switzerland, Italy, Greece and Turkey over 30 days in September '09 and averaged $140 US per person per day (excluding flights from NZ but including ALL other travel and expenses, souvenirs etc).

We stayed at budget hotels (but not in youth hostel dorm rooms, we were on our honeymoon after all!) rather than middle of the road ones; we probably moved around more than average; and we ate dinner out at restaurants 2/3 of the time.

One very basic difference in calculating the final cost of a trip is where you live. If you are flying out of the west coast to London, Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, your total trip will be higher than someone departing from the mid-west or from the east coast.

This is further evidence to omitting the plane fare in figuring final cost of a Europe trip.

Regardless of travel season, the cost from LAX or SFO
is always more to London than it would be to depart from the East coast.

I just analyzed my last trip (Aug/Sep '09). I spent 10 nights in rural Germany and Austria (Freilassing, Hallstatt, Hall, near Bayrischzell, Mittenwald, and Pfronten), then finished with 3 nights in Munich. My daily expenses in the rural part were €70/day (just under $100); my expenses in Munich, even though I spent less on transportation, were €91 ($129) per day. This was entirely due to higher (twice as much) accommodation expenses in Munich, even though I saved there by staying in a suburb, rather than downtown.

So, where you are going to stay, big city or small town, makes a big difference (in this case about 30%) in what you need to budget.

I am just looking for opinions. My husband and I will be traveling to Europe for about 3 weeks. Our itinerary includes some large and some small cities. I have budgeted 100 euro per day for meals, museums & attractions, and public transportation. Does that seem sufficient? All of our aifrare, trains, and hotels are prepaid. We plan to eat as inexpensively as we can.

We've traveled both cheaper and more expensive than Rick's rules of thumb.

Cheaper when it was just me and my wife, squeezing in a trip when we really didn't have the money at the time (or when newlyweds). In those cases we've gone as low as Airfare +$70 each per day.

More expensive when traveling with either set of parents, plus toddlers, etc... in which case we do typically run right at Airfare +$160 each adult per day.

Hi Marie!!

We also have two teens who cannot share a bed and we have stayed in "quad" rooms in Europe and in apartments. We much prefer apartments - more space, ability to prepare some meals, and, we feel that we are seeing the "real" part of wherever it is that we are visiting. However, having said that, you can't always find apartments since many require a minimum stay. Depending upon how much time you have for your trip you could probably rent apartments in all the locations you have listed. If your time is shorter, you will either have to rent hotel room/rooms or reduce the number of countries/cities you plan to visit.
For what it's worth, my kids do better with a "home" base approach - changing hotels every other night is tiring and does consume a lot of your travel time.

Good luck in your planning!!

I'd be interested in hearing trip costs for families. We have two teens (one boy, one girl). Accommodations seems to be the trickiet part of the budget -- the kids are too old to share a bed, and although my daughter and I could share a bed, that would be a far less comfortable option for my son and husband. So, then we're looking at two rooms. The other option would be to use a 'home-base' approach and rent an apartment. We'd like to visit friends in northern Germany (Hannover) then drive south and see Switzerland, and fly home. Would like to visit Paris, but that adds more time/expense. We need to see if airfare will drop a bit from the west coast before we make any firm decisions.

Just a reminder: whatever you estimate for your costs, add contingency funds. You may miss a connection because a flight is delayed or cancelled, land in the middle of a terrorist alert that has you stopping at lots of checkpoints, be hurt or ill and have medical expenses, have to replace lost items, pay a traffic ticket fine -- I've experienced all of these except the traffic ticket. Travel insurance may be very nice, but you still have to pay for things up front and then seek reimbursement. Airlines have no responsibility once you land at your "final destination", even if you land 10 hours late and need to get a hotel, buy a new train ticket, etc. It's better to have a cash reserve so you can deal with emergencies. (Pharmacies often won't take plastic.) Really --- I'm not an alarmist, just the voice of experience.

Marie,
I have two teens, son and daughter, also. We have traveled to Europe twice and always found quad rooms that have one double and two twin beds. I believe it is more research finding what you need, and you will have fewer choices, but even in Paris last summer I at one point had reservations at three places, and I think they all would have been fine for us. We ended up paying 120 euro/night for a nice quad room in Paris. Some other places we stayed in were more (like London) and others less. But you can find the kind of room you need, and I think one quad will almost always be less than two doubles. I usually pick places from the internet and guide books that I think might have quads, and then send an email explaining what bed arrangement we want. Sometimes they have something perfect that they don't even advertise.

Bump

When asked, I have always suggested the curious determine how much they would plan to spend if vacationing in an American city.

Then ask yourself whether you intend to travel in the same "style" or if this European trip will be more "deluxe".

Finally, investigate the prices in the cities/areas your are touring and adjust accordingly. My cost per day in KC are quite different than when I work in NY. The same economics are in play everywhere.

Moral of the story; some people live frugally and travel lavishly and vice versa. Others life and travel in consistent style. How much you spend will be determined by local costs and your style- regardless of where, when, how, etc...

I find daily expenses in European capital cities generally equates to costs found in major US cities; NY, LA.

This is very interesting. I just went back and calculated our 2009 10-day trip to Amsterdam/Belgium/Germany and it was exactly $185 (CAD) per person per day before airfare.

I planned the trip on a very tight budget. I really worked hard to find low priced accomidations - I used Priceline in big cities and won 4-star hotels there, in smaller towns it was 2-3 star but they had private bath and breakfast included.

We spent a lot on transportation. 10% of the budget went to car rental in Germany and we spent a bit on trains in Benelux. We had one major splurge dinner and the rest were modest meals or picnics but we drank all the beer we could handle.

It seems like this is a good guideline but it makes me wonder how different it would be staying in one country the whole trip without all the transportation costs.

In Rick's 2009 ETBD book he gives a rule of thumb of about ~$185 per person per day, not including airfare, for a couple staying in middle of the road hotels and eating one sit down meal per day. He also says he considers ~$110 per person per day to be the rock-bottom for "student or extreme budget travelers for safe travel in Western Europe." This does not include the cost of any transportation by air, land, or sea, and not including shopping; thus, the $110/day/person EXCLUDES categories 1, 2, 6, and 7 in the list in the original post.

Rick gives his costs in dollars. If you reduce his 2009 dollar costs for the change in value between the euro and dollar, you get roughly ~$155/day/person for Rick's typical couple (described in the original post) and ~$90/day/person for Rick's "extreme budget traveler." Again, not including airfare to Europe.

As Rick is fond of saying: "I'm cautious about sending people to Europe with too much confidence and not enough money."

Just some data. Got back yesterday from 3 week trip to London, Paris, Murren/Gimmelwald, Venice, Florence, Rome. Total cost was $8690 for 20 days for 2 people. This included 2 $703 airfares. Subtracting airfare, this comes to about $185 per person per day. We splurged on hotel about 25% of the time but ate out only about 2 out of 3 days. Definitely bought tons of bottled water, coke and gelato. Did some shopping - about $350 worth. We had a private double with bath every night and air conditioning about 2 out of 3 nights. My point is - you can have a VERY comfortable trip for Rick's budget figures. We did numerous day trips and city transfers (Bath, Oxford, Lucern, Orvieto, Siena and more) and still made budget. Of course the recent forex movement in our favor helped :)

hmm. this post is making me freak out a little. i've been planning and 'budgeting for' our trip for six months now, and we leave in six weeks. so far we have spent $4,600 total. this includes: two rt tickets nyc to london, lodging for six nights in london, two eurostar tickets TO paris (one way), 14 nights in an apartment in paris, two train tickets rt paris/amsterdam, one night in amsterdam hotel, one ticket back to london on the eurostar, one ticket paris to barcelona, lodging for one person in barcelona for seven nights, and one flight from barcelona to london. we have money left over, but i'm starting to think the 'being there' cost is going to be WAY more than i'd anticipated. i was going with the theory that 'we'd be spending money to eat if we were at home', and have budgeted in things like museums and river cruises. the total so far, if you count it as a two-person trip for the whole time (even though the barcelona part is just me) adds up to $153 per day for both of us--so around $76/day per person. and we've not eaten yet, or seen anything. that sounds terribly high. though that IS including all kinds of airfare. and we're not ever paying more than $100 USD a night for lodging, and that's for two people. so we're ok. right? i really hope i'm right!

Tracy,

you really should take out the air fare TO Europe before you calculate the per diem cost of your trip if you want to compare it to RS's experience or others on the helpline. There are too many differences on how people get there or whether they are coming from the West or East coast.

So it sounds you should be fine. However, even if you do prepare some of your meals in your rental appartment you need to calculate MORE for food cost than what you spend at home, unless you're used to eating out A LOT. If I were eating out a lot at home I couldn't afford any vacation in Europe anymore ...

As Beatrix mentioned, don't freak out! The costs given in your post aren't apples to apples with the average budget costs given in Rick's book Europe Through the Backdoor. Deduct your airfare, but then add these costs that are not included in the costs you've paid so far:

FoodAdmission to sightsShopping & misc costs

You'll spend more on food in Europe than you spend here at home.

Rick's budget is about $100 to $150/person/day. Of course these are only intended to be averages and your trip cost will be different; and average is defined as about half of travelers will spend less and half will spend more. On this site, we tend to hear from the half who are proud that they spent less than Rick's averages. However, there is some evidence out there that some spend at least as much as Rick's numbers, but they aren't on here bragging about it.

Rick's figures are based on these assumptions, which may or may not apply to your trip:

1)Sightseeing costs of $8 to $20 per person for admission to major attractions, and $2 to $5 per person for smaller attractions. A Rick says, "this category directly powers most of the experiences all the other expenses are designed to make possible," so don't cut back here.

2) Food costs of free breakfast, $15/person for "lunch" (food purchased during the day other than dinner), and $25/person/dinner. His book gives ideas on how you can reduce food cost to keep them under the above figures.

3) Shopping & misc: Shopping can vary in cost from nearly nothing to a small fortune (says Rick). You've got more control over this category.

ok. that makes me feel a bit better. we're at $3000 if you deduct the major flight; $2750 if you deduct the flights when already in europe, and below $2500 if you deduct all trains. so that's $83/day for both of us, or around $42/day per person.

additionally, we spend at least $200 per week on groceries at home (we entertain a LOT), and at least another $100 eating outside of the home (especially if you take at-work lunches into consideration) so that's $300 per week, or $1200 over the course of our trip. even if we double that, we're ok. in london, all of our breakfasts are included (though they will be very basic) and in paris we plan to eat breakfast and dinner at 'home', with perhaps two or three nights 'out'. and when i'm in barcelona alone, i'll likely eat once a day (i don't eat that much in general, and i'd rather splurge for one great meal per day than have three crappy ones) i have budgeted in admission prices (i have a table with total cost for both of us for every conceivable attraction, and have considered the near $200 cost for a six day paris pass.) ok. i'm feeling a little better. we REALLY wanted this to be a 'budget' trip--if that's not an oxymoron. my fingers are crossed that it will remain so!