Reverse Culture Shock After Travel

Fascinating subject!

Not really reverse culture shock because I haven't ever been gone long enough to forget what my home country (USA) is like. But I do absolutely notice these striking culture differences when I do travel. I'm afraid that a frank discussion of these differences gets the thread locked, but yeah... I absolutely notice general incivility and self-centeredness at home.

There's no reason for anyone to lock this thread. Travel can be the immersion into another society and there's nothing wrong in examining the subsequent "attitude adjustment" it can bring.

I hope this doesn't come off as too pedantic, but I remember that the anthropologist Margaret Mead saying the term culture shock, at least she used it, was the shock of realizing, through contact with other societies, that aspects of your own culture are not univesral and not superior. What you describe, sounds like a good illustration of culture shock and not actually "reverse," if that makes sense. And yes, whenever I return from even a short trip to another country, there are often little things that I suddenly notice more back home; some of them relate to the civility issue you describe.

Unfortunately, I hit the paywall on the Atlantic article. Maybe I can find the September 2023 edition at the library.

An interesting topic. As European I start with just reading. Hopefully this thread will not go into politics.

Unfortunately, I hit the paywall on the Atlantic article. Maybe I can find the September 2023 edition at the library.

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I spent seven months in Europe, from July 2018 to January 2019. When I came home, one of the first things I noticed was the terrible condition of the roads here. I have seen little improvement since the pandemic-era infrastructure bill. OTOH, that money has doubled the Amtrak service in my area (from two trains with frequent bus replacement service per day in each direction to two trains and two buses per day in each direction) and lowered fares (including free tickets for 18 and under).

I agree: I went from a Swiss train (then a flight) and then to a subway in a major American city. It was astounding to me how terrible public transportation was in contrast.

I wonder if Americans ever return to the United States and have a positive “reverse culture shock”?

I know when I return to Sweden after a few months out I also notice how good the roads are and how courteous the drivers are.

Similarly, when I return to Spain, I think "damn we have good food here" haha, and appreciate more the cafe/paseo/tapas culture

Your points are well taken, I agree with them , and there is much validity to what you say. I have my own views on this salient topic sociologically, politically, culturally. Upon return I feel likewise. No doubt "they" have their problems, however one chooses to label and define them. My view is that ours "Back in the USA" , as Chuck Berry's title says , are more acute

In Europe I don't intentionally avoid politics and society as topics of conversation in talking with locals, the "Europeans" and I can recall exactly who these individuals were in the course of the trips, ie, Belgian, Germans, French, Czech, Swedish, Dutch, Polish, Bulgarian, Austrian, English,

True, one does see the obvious civility in the smaller towns and villages "deep in the heart " of France. In 2024 and '25 trips, 24 summer weeks total , I made it point to get into rural areas of France tracking down historical sites, Grenoble, plus those in the Aube River towns, Bar-sur-Aube, those towards Lille, eg, Lambersart, Douai, Troyes, those in Lorraine besides Verdun and Metz, Epinal, Toul, Luneville,

One thing was a constant in these areas of France way from an urban center, as you are speaking French, rudimentary as it is, the locals do not switch over to English, they let you continue struggling in the language....bravo. If switching over was needed, I was always the first to start that, even then the reply still could be in French, as I experienced in Albert/Somme with a taxi driver.

Among several things that stick out to me when I return to the States from Europe and the UK, perhaps the most noticeable is the emphasis on renewables, recyclables, and reusables overseas compared to a more throwaway mentality in the U.S. I know not every city or state has the same policies, but I'm speaking in general. I'm referring to basic things--having a cup of coffee served in a true cup with a saucer and silverware spoon (it's a true joy!) and paper cups, straws, and utensils for fast food. Then back to the States where it's plastic straws and plastic lids and so on. I know that I can't generalize--I live & work in an area that has a plastic bag tax and container restrictions, but then I visit my hometown, and no one blinks an eye at plastic bags from retail stores and Styrofoam cups at McDonald's or restaurant carry-outs. It saddens me that so many in this country aren't more forward-thinking or environmentally friendly.

I'm going to come off like a "bad person," but three things struck me right away, returning to Miami airport after one month in Spain:

There were so many fat people in the airport

The highways leading from the airport seemed very bad as compared to those I drove in Spain

And for the first few days of being home, before I began cooking myself again, the food seemed to have no taste--- scrambled eggs, a tuna fish sandwich, breads, tomatoes.....for a minute or two I thought I might have contracted Covid on the plane and that was affecting my sense of taste.

The overwhelming impression I received after 6 weeks in Asia was just how loud we are as Americans. It was almost an assault to the senses the first few days.

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I don't see a way to do that on an android device. I'll have to make assumptions based on your post as to what the article says. When we visited the Dordogne region of France and Mull in Scotland I commented to my wife that it reminded me of rural regions at home with how down to earth people were. I thought the same after visiting London and how so at home we felt. It made me realize that while the USA is our neighbour and we have some similar characteristics, I felt a very close connection to other places that maybe Americans don't have. Likely because France and the UK are part of the historical Canadian identity.

The grass always looks greener...

The grass always looks greener

And denial ain't just a river in Egypt? The patient is sick, undeniably.

Joe, you are so right about public transportation in most areas in the US. That is one of my favorite things about Europe and the UK

If traveling exposed one to seeing what is different and that difference is marked and obvious, then look into that more critically , ie compare and contrast pre-pandemic to 2025 the numbers of Americans moving overseas, the most popular countries Americans are leaving the US for and why. Name the countries , say just in Europe to see how many are favourites of ex-pats, or those spots where expat Americans hang out, say in Paris, Berlin, Munich ,Frankfurt, Vienna, etc, etc

Contrast that with how many return as the life was different from that which had envisaged, the ups and downs of daily life wasn't what they had thought was cracked up to be.

I thoroughly enjoy traveling to Europe but I enjoy coming home even more.

I did find the article as a pdf on line. The subject is, of course, political and David Brooks points that out continuously throughout. I'll say no more.

I thoroughly enjoy traveling to Europe but I enjoy coming home even
more.

I suspect you don't mean that as an insult to other countries, and I don't either when I say that I'm perfectly happy where I live. Aside from the weather when I come home in winter there is no shock and there is no place I'd rather live. I really enjoy my creature comforts; I enjoy food significantly more at home than abroad (Mexico may be the exception), I like my local sports, my sitcoms in english, and of course my friends, family and granddog (not necessarily in that order).

It’s good to leave your country for a while, even it’s just for a few weeks to have some self reflection. You don’t have to go to the moon for this.

Joe, this really is a fascinating topic. It seems we live in a rather selfish, self-centered culture today. For example at sporting events or travelling there's a sense among some people of, "I paid for this ticket and I'll do what I want." At crosswalks where I live it is rare a car will stop to let you cross, so in London I was pleasantly surprised when cars invariably stopped to let Mary and I cross. Wow! Actually having good manners and following the rules. How is that possible lol.

I'm 65 now and often think of my grandfather, his service in WWII including the Battle of the Bulge and the horror of being trapped in Bastogne, and how he lived a life of dignity, public service, and civility. He remains the gold standard for personal conduct I will never attain. Grandpa was a blue dog, proud Democrat in West Virginia, becoming a county school board president and for one year the state. He was a big JFK supporter. Politics back in the 50s through the 70s was intense but he never descended into personal denigration of his opponents. He always stuck to policy and would not get personal, and even while disagreeing he was never disrespectful nor condescending. Grandpa was a person of moderation and modesty. It was a different time and men like him simply don't seem to exist any more. He would likely be disappointed at the vitriol today along with a lack of basic common courtesy in society writ large, not just politics. He had very good friends who were Republicans and enjoyed having a beer or two with them and enjoying each other's jokes and stories, like Tip O'Neill and Ronald Reagan. I don't think he would fare well in today's cultural and political climate.

Reverse culture shock is a thing in the literature, for sure. I work in a university which sends some of its students abroad for a year and we spend some time debriefing and validating those feelings people have when they return. Plus they are in a vulnerable phase of life, where they are learning to get on in the world without parents there, so the change is acute. Of course even if you go for a few weeks that can be enough to re-evaluate your home environment a little, you don't have to go away for a year to feel that way too.

Lavandula

It’s easy to have what I call “vacation goggles” when you travel and Europe has the advantage of having a very old history with so many old cities, buildings and churches all in a fairly compact area. That doesn’t change the fact that they suffer many of the same struggles that we do.

One of the above posters said “the grass is not always greener” and was immediately ridiculed by the OP, displaying the same behavior that he called out.

Many who leave home to live somewhere else return back as the dream didn’t match the reality.

I lived overseas for more than 10 years. The day my wife and I flew home to the states was an unhappy day. I loved where I lived in Germany, had a vacation home in another country and tried mightily to stay permanently.

I returned at the dawn of political crisis in 2016, couldn’t stand loud Americans, couldn’t really remember much of a city I used to be familiar with and had some general discontent. Fast forward to today and I live in a nice neighborhood, reacquainted myself with my home city, traveled around the USA, established local links and live well. So I got over culture shock but still go to favorite places in Europe every year.

So yes if you live overseas or travel frequently it can be hard to come home.

Espo, appreciate those insights.

We had culture shock when we moved back to France after 40 years in the US. Although we had stayed in France for months every year, we felt happy to be back in France but also a bit of culture shock for the first couple of months. We had left a pre-computerized country and had to get used to the updated way services were administered. Culturally, we are a combination of the two countries and ultimately made friends with people with the same interests and also French people who had also lived overseas for decades and were now returning. The first two months my husband wore a US baseball cap from the university where we worked, and I still have my keys on a laniere from the university. So it goes both ways. Ultimately he got a traditional flat cap like the ones his father wore.

Note: we have had a yearly increase in Americans coming to my city. I know of only three who returned for health or work reasons. How long will any one of them stay is anybody's guess although there are some English-language nursing homes on the Riviera.

And: like Lavandula, I used to observe students returning from their year abroad falling into depressions. I urged the overseas study program to not only prepare them for the launch into a new country, but also to sponsor debriefing workshops upon return.

I have visited 84 foreign countries and lived overseas in two, Germany (4) and Saudi Arabia (5).
Countries that I have visited include most of Europe, over half the countries in South America, many in Asia and Africa as well as Australia and NZ.

1) I have seen poverty much worse that what you see in Mexico. The poverty in Mexico is nothing compared to sub-Saharan Africa and some South American countries.

2) Having lived in Saudi Arabia, I learned much about countries with cultures FAR different from Western Culture. Saudi was a country with very little crime, since punishment was swift and certain. Thieves had that hands cut off and murderers lost their heads. You could go the the local market and leave you keys in the ignition of your car and it would still be there when you came back. Back then women were not allowed to drive and had to dress covering their bodies and hair. That has changes, now women can drive and the country is slowly changing.

3) Still, I have enjoyed learning about the World and its many cultures and customs. I found that everywhere that I went people tended to be friendly. Japan is one of my favorite places, it is very. clean and its people exceptionally friendly and helpful. Also, it has much history. Italy is also one of my favorites with is history, art, culture and cuisine. As much as I love travel, I always want to return home.

4) Instead of insulting my country, I love it, respect it and am very happy residing there. Of course, I know that America has it problems. I have learned that when visiting some cities (mostly large cities) that some areas are best to avoid, especially at night. My home is located in a VERY safe area, with almost NO crime.

5) I don't have a reverse culture shock, because I also know the strengths of my country. I enjoyed living in Saudi Arabia and Germany, but knew it wouldn't be forever. Germany was of course, closer to the USA in culture. 35 years ago crime was very low, but know my German friends warn me that has changed, some areas are to be avoided at night. We also found Germany to be more expensive than the USA (we were protected because we worked for the US Army and could purchase food and goods from the commissary and PX). Our German friends complained about high income and other taxes, believe me the USA is much better. I met a gentleman in Paris that was American living there and said that the French taxes were so high that he only took home 30% of his income. Also, I love that I have freedoms here that many other countries don't have, especially those like China, Russia and more.

I enjoy traveling. I even enjoy traveling home!

Shock is not normally a word I'd used to describe either coming or going but maybe I should.

I find kindness everywhere-- even wearing a Cleveland browns jersey at a Pittsburgh steelers game.

Some of observations from folks like Brooks may be the rose colored glasses of nostalgia. Some of it may real and products of tech's revolutionary social media and algorithmically amplified outrage. I wish I could just recall on demand Hugh Grant's speech about Heathrow Airport from Love Actually but my mind always wanders now that I've been reprogrammed by Tech to have a shorter attention span. That can be good too! Picture the Swiss alps! Then six seconds later I read something on some forum and I get steamed. That's on me though

Happy travels.

I respect the poster's right to comment "Instead of insulting my country, I love it, respect it...." However, acknowledging imperfections in our own country is not insulting. We grow and mature when problems and weaknesses are recognized. Sometimes others have solutions, perceptions, knowledge, that would help us to grow into an even better culture.

There is an elephant in the room here. Maybe a couple of them.

1) Some Americans with the resources needed for trips to Europe are going there to enhance their "social resumes". Not that different from parking a high-end Mercedes or Ferrari in your driveway. The unstated objective of travel is to distinguish oneself from those fat, loud, ignorant, unenlightened, aggressive "others" in our society. Not surprising that this kind of American finds the kind, refined, sophisticated Europeans they were hoping to find in a short 2-week trip.

2) Friendly greetings from English-speaking European service personnel in tourist hotels and restaurants, from tour guides, etc. are not necessarily an expression of happiness. We do not know their struggles, as others have said. Check out Europe's store clerks and bus drivers.

3) I don't know if Rick actually refers to Americans as narrow-minded, sad or ignorant. But in his stated philosophy, he insists fervently that we need our perspectives broadened, that non-travelers are more fearful than those who travel, that European travel can make us "happier Americans" once we understand that Europeans don't envy us and would not willingly trade passports. We should in fact metamorphize into "temporary Europeans" when we go there. Hmm. It's almost as though we're all wildly defective and require the kind of rehabilitation that European travel is said to offer. (Should Europeans feel obliged to become Americans when they visit our country? Will they go home as better citizens of the world if they do?) Rick is charismatic and influential - so it is no surprise that this travel-guru's followers might passively accept and adopt his impressions of European vs. American character - and that this perspective guides the travel experience.

That said... I do not disagree with Brooks that we have seen a decline in civility in recent years. Our sense of community is definitely shrinking.

One of the above posters said “the grass is not always greener” and
was immediately ridiculed by the OP, displaying the same behavior that
he called out.

The "grass is always greener" argument is in itself, ridicule. Why even have the discussion when every perception of a place in comparison to another can be dismissed as trivial or nonexistent, because you know; "you feel that way because the grass is always greener over there".

Is the apparent superiority of Swiss public transport vs American public transport real or because of the green grass? Of course it's real, and it's superior because for whatever reason they (the Swiss) choose to allocate their resources towards it whereas in the US we obviously do not.

Swiss Chocolate also is excellent.

I was very impressed by everything in switzerland -- though I'm not sure they really were on the right side of history sitting out WW II.

In 1856, Congressman Preston Brooks (no relation) beat Sen Charles Sumner unconscious with a gold headed cane. Not the most civil of times. Brooks was reelected.

I suppose my point is this: it could be worse.

But, yeah, I agree. We've got some problems right now.

Happy travels.

In 1856, Congressman Preston Brooks (no relation) beat Sen Charles
Sumner unconscious with a gold headed cane. Not the most civil of
times. Brooks was reelected.

I suppose my point is this: it could be worse.

Not to mention Andrew Jackson, Alexander Hamilton, Aaron Burr. And yes it could be worse, e.g. 1861

The civil war was bad. Very bad. Not a fan. Agree.

So was 2016. Cleveland led the Chicago Cubs 3–1 in the series before losing the final three games, including a 10th-inning loss in Game 7.

I was shocked!!!

Happy travels.

"Nice things." Every year on April 15th, I reflect on the "nice things" I wish my taxes were funding: affordable healthcare (not just bankruptcy insurance), quality K-12 education, a humane criminal justice system, functioning transportation infrastructure (even if it's inevitably going to favor the automobile), and a social safety net.
Edited to add: affordable childcare and paid sick/vacation/parenting leave

Hm, I live here and those "nice things" that we have are funded by those high taxes that people like to complain about, especially faux news. Yet, you still can get part of that VAT back when you go back home or are here with the military.
We have nice things because there is emphasis on health care for everyone, not just those who can afford health insurance, good schooling for everyone not just those that can afford it, good training for everyone no matter what they want to learn (trades or college) safe streets and schools, public transport so people do not have to own a car, high minimum wages in many countries so people can possibly live from it, long vacation times so people can enjoy them, long maternity leaves so both parents can have more time to be parents and not just wage earners.

I get culture shock when I go back to the US. People have their TV on ALL the time Seriously, folks, when you are making a video of a birthday, etc. turn your TV off!. They wear their jammies to the store or to fly in. Food at the grocery is expensive and the produce tastes like cardboard. There are no sidewalks to walk on. The buses are hilarious but sad too, with ads to sell your blood, gold or get a bondsman. Someone else already said it, but the obesity takes your breath away. I am overweight too and there are lots of us here in Europe, but it is nothing like the US. People are so unbelievably huge. The lack of any kind of awareness about what is going on the world or where anything is or anything about history is shocking. People asking me what season it is in Germany, how close the war in Iraq is to us, is the Wall still there, is there TV in Germany and commercials, not knowing that Africa is full of countries. I could go on and on and on, but that is enough.
Though it is fun to be there for a little while, after a week, I am more than happy to come back home.

Coming back to the US what I saw again was the societal division,
serious lack of conviviality, the “I’ve got mine” attitude and an
underlying “aggressive” mindset that a lot of people seem to have,
although now it was even more amplified since I’d been away from it.

joefarnacle, if your very last link is an indication, your words come from a good place. It might help you a little if you consider that you roses and butterfly impression of Europe was formed without any real day to day struggle as a citizen in Europe. You were a wide eyed tourist on magnificent holidays in very beautiful environments.

Having done the holiday experience and having done the work day grunt experience in one particular European city as well; my perception is that my experience here sucks no less than my life experience in my US home town. It just sucks in different ways and for different reasons. And I recognize that the sucking will vary by income, race, religion, age, education. The grass is always greener, but it never is ....

Coming back to the US what I saw again was the societal division, serious lack of conviviality

Not that surprising given how often people throw around labels like ‘Nazi’ or ‘Hitler’ at people just for having the wrong opinions.

joefarnacle, if your very last link is an indication, your words come from a good place. It might help you a little if you consider that you roses and butterfly impression of Europe was formed without any real day to day struggle as a citizen in Europe.

Actually I’ve made mention and realize both the good and bad aspects of experiencing other countries, for example seeing the intense militarization of the police in the part of Mexico I visited was certainly off putting. I assume they are militarized for a reason? And the question I ask myself is what led to this and how can WE avoid it?

Not that surprising given how often people throw around labels like ‘Nazi’ or ‘Hitler’ at people just for having the wrong opinions.

Or the "enemy within" or "vermin" or "scum" or "lunatic" or "poison in the blood"? Yes, the temperature needs to be lowered, however it starts at the top. Unfortunately the power model is to keep the populous enraged and fearful, mainly through 24 hour media "coverage" of the next whatever it happens to be, certainly eclipsing the standard two minutes of hate.

"It's good to leave your country for a while...." How true. If it were not for Schengen and its time imposition, I would certainly be spending more weeks in Schengen than I am now, these 12 weeks. No Schengen means my desired time range means from mid-May to mid-Sept. , ca 18 weeks total to be there, not here.

I’m wondering if people saying Europe is so green have actually rented apartments and interfaced directly with the local pickup system. Because I’ve never seen there the 3-part collection system I have at home (trash, recycling, organics). In some buildings in Europe it’s clear residents are not taking it seriously and mixing it all up together.

The US is all over the place with recycling and heath care and public education delivery and state of roads and transit, it’s impossible to generalize. I often fly with paper reading materials which I read and toss after the flight and last year learned flying Southwest which airports have recycling receptacles (Denver, Midway) and which ones don’t (Nashville) so I’d have to save till my home airport to recycle. Also Delta flight attendants collect and sort newspaper and magazines for recycling, Southwest tosses it all in the garbage.

Also, if you don’t want to generate coffee and fast food trash in the US then buy those things!

I’m always glad to come home to wide and plentiful parking spaces.

Yes, Toby, we have the 3-sort recycling systems in France, and many areas, have had it for about a decade. I just had a fit because the organics are attracting ants. My husband took the organics out to the neighborhood collection bin. I hate the organics; no self-satisfying pat on the back for saving the environment for me. I don't want ants and roaches in my kitchen.

This thread has become ridiculous because people are comparing here and there and not discussing culture shock. A short-stay tourist isn't going to get culture shock. It's unlikely that 98% of the people on RS have had culture shock except those pangs that drive tourists to McDonalds or to buy Starbucks mugs.

Culture shock occurs when a person stays in a country for many months or years. It has cycles that last about five years: first everything looks wonderful and better, then it's all bad and worse than home, then it's wonderful again, and then it's bad, up and down until the person has found their place, learned the language and acculturates. I had culture shock in the 1970s but it's long in the past, except for a few adjustments moving back to a changed society. Knowing the language is key to acculturation. Yes, I think joefarnacle could have gotten culture shock depending on how many months he stayed. Otherwise, it's a simple comparison and something he didn't find at home.

We have four collections here if I include the less frequent garden rubbish bin being emptied.

Toby, was there a particular country or countries you were referring to? It seems a bit of weak point, especially if you don't want to generalise about the US in your next paragraph.

As someone who spends time outside of the USA in years, the biggest culture shock I have, and it's always worse when I've been in the EU, is just how bad American drivers are. I've lived in 8 states, driven in all 50, over 3 million recorded miles in every type of vehicle, and it never fails to amaze me just how much I hate driving at times. How hard is it to learn to stay to the right unless passing? And why can't they take all the semi-wrecked, unsafe, vehicles off the roads? Turn signals? Working tail lights? Pets that aren't restrained?

Yes, bad drivers here! And in such a variety of ways! We're always commenting "Whoa, that's some creative driving!"

And why can't they take all the semi-wrecked, unsafe, vehicles off the roads? Turn signals? Working tail lights? Pets that aren't restrained?

Safety inspections are mandated by the states, and some states are actually doing away with them in the interest of, I don’t know, maybe freedom ? So they are free to drive these vehicles until the wheels literally fall off.

Toby, was there a particular country or countries you were referring to? It seems a bit of weak point

It’s a totally weak point but I was generalizing in kind to a generalization farther up.

As a weird spin on trash collection, Mexico City separates out organics but the recycling goes in with trash! They call them combined together “inorganics.”

Also: Had the same Miami Airport experience with tubbies seemingly everywhere, like 50%. I wonder if it is a more overweight airport clientele? Or maybe South Americans are just a thin bunch so the contrast to Americans is higher?

After years of travel I’m having trouble not feeling everywhere is transitory and no particular location matters much to me.

"Knowing the language is key to acculturation." How utterly true !! One cannot overlearn the language in all its aspects. That and learning and knowing the cultural cues.

It’s a totally weak point but I was generalizing in kind to a generalization farther up.

Ah right. I assumed you were speaking from actual experience of a particular country.

Or the "enemy within" or "vermin" or "scum" or "lunatic" or "poison in the blood"?

I have no idea what you're talking about????

I assumed you were speaking from actual experience of a particular country.

I do have actual experience but recently it’s only been in Central Europe.

I’ve never seen there the 3-part collection system I have at home (trash, recycling, organics).

Germany has a 5 way waste collection and recycling system: trash, recycling, organics, paper, glass. On top empty batteries and small electronic devices can be returned to retail for appropriate waste handling.

Agree to KGC about driving competencies of people from other countries.

I like to add to the language topic that communication is more than language. Especially in Northern Germany and Northern countries people talk less, not so loudly and with less gestures than in other parts of Europe.

Germany has a 5 way waste collection and recycling system: trash, recycling, organics, paper, glass. On top empty batteries and small electronic devices can be returned to retail for appropriate waste handling.

Same here in Sweden!

On the above : "vermin" , the "enemy within," " poison in the blood" etc ....all history references made by specific individuals

The one thing that really strikes me when I go home to visit are the ads for medicines.

First off is the quantity of conditions that I never knew existed.

Next is the list of side effects. Some of those medicines can kill you.

Finally, when I reflect a bit, it is incredible the scenario of having symptoms, going to you doctor, and asking him for a specific drug.

Part of the requirements for having a TV ad for a prescription medication in the US is that it must list the possible side effects, one of which is the possibility that it could kill you. That possibility is true for any medication. The list of side effects therefore makes the advertisement "informational", on top of telling you how wonderful your life will be if you can convince your doctor to prescribe it. These medications invariably have eye-popping prices, and the ad is hoping your health insurance will cover that cost.

Reverse culture shock as in a negative feeling about what I am returning home to? No, not yet. Sometimes, well always, I feel something closer to refreshment to be back in the USA.

But then I live in a particular EU country, pay taxes in a EU country, work in a EU country, seen first hand the day to day liberties and governmental controls in a EU country, participated in the national healthcare system of an EU nation and have seen how much that system costs the poor working people, and have witnessed the exclusion of the disabled in the EU. As the basics of life are now reguated by the EU I presume that all EU countries share some of the same as my experiences and if that is only half true, then I suspect I would have the same feelings having lived in any of them. Now, if my only experiene were a 15 day Rick Steves tour, or even 12 of them, I might have a different perspective.

If there is a people that I admire and am a bit jealous of, it is the people of Ukraine. That has been the case for me since I started traveling there in 2016.

I've known several people who spent years living in Europe who describe a life more about enjoying life and other people than about money.` And a willingness of people to pay high taxes in order to provide that quality of life.

Whenever I return home from a trip abroad, I do find myself wishing things some things here were more like what I witnessed in Europe. For example, small things like the dual-action windows and retractable metal shutters on homes, enforced noise ordnances, efficient house-sizing, minimal lawns. Then large things like affordable health care, safe public transportation, education, compact and efficient city planning, low crime rates. As far as bad driving here, why do we make it so easy to get a license? I like the Fahrschule requirement in Germany.

I do think that {generalization alert} that Europeans in general are more civilized and better educated than the average American. Maybe because their civilization has been around for thousands of years, whereas the US is only 250 years old, nd still working out the kinks.

I think there is a deep-seated belief in the US, that America is still the world leader with a quality of life that all others envy. At least among the un-traveled. And a cultivated fear of anything labeled as socialism, when it's really about the public good. Hence, that "travel as a political act" concept.

PS I dont think the US support of NATO was for altruistic reasons. It was mostly to fight the Russians before they get to our shores. Oh, and of course to support the military-industrial complex.

Germany has a 5 way waste collection and recycling system: trash, recycling, organics, paper, glass.

I am not sure this is an improvement over single-stream recycling. So you are putting glass in one place, paper in another, then plastics and metals in a third place? So you are walking the recycled stuff to specific locations, it's not getting picked up at the residence.

I think there's a huge difference between traveling to Europe as a tourist and living in the United States. It's easy to become infatuated with European life because we go over there for the express purpose of experiencing the best of it.

But in answer to the question, no, I've never had any sort of culture shock. And I don't understand why anyone of you, who seem to be very well-informed sophisticated people, would have culture shock, either.

The German recycling system has pick ups from your home except for glass. The glass bins collect, green, brown, and clear, in separate sections. Beer bottles are for deposit and lots of companies use the same ones, either brown, or green, just with their own label.

At your apt. building or home, there is one bin for paper, one for plastic and metal, one for bio-degradable and one for the rest. The bio-degradable is picked up, then processed in various ways, including collecting the methane to be used in buses, and then made into compost which is used in the parks, cemeteries, and green spaces. The bin with the Rest, is burned to make heat which is distributed to most of the government buildings through insulated, underground pipes. There are no land-fills here. You take your batteries for collection at every grocery store. Left over paint, aerosols, etc. are collected on a monthly basis in every neighborhood.

Restaurants may have a separate one for food waste, which is picked up, processed under high heat and sold to pig farmers.

One comment was that Europeans are better educated than Americans:
NOT true regarding college graduates
Approximately 40% of adults in Europe hold a college degree, while in the United States, about 50% of adults have attained a college degree. This reflects a higher educational attainment in the U.S. compared to the average in Europe.

geovagriffith, I said that. Partly because I think their system of higher education is more rigorous than ours, with some exceptions. But mostly my impression is that average people are more informed regardless of schooling. Yes, all major generalizations.

I know several Americans (born and raised) who left the US to become ex-pats since they had married foreign nationals, (French, German, Austrian) . Among them too are those individuals who chose to return to CA because they could not readapt, re-assimilate to life over there where they spent decades. Two cases I know of pertain to France, these 2 parties ended up coming back to CA.

I don't get reverse culture shock after multi-consecutive weeks , say 9 weeks in Europe. I know what to expect, am aware of that which is satisfactory , positive or that which annoys me. I know I'll see the good, (obviously), bad, and the "ugly" and undoubtedly there is plenty of that when "Back in the USA " The answer: plan for the next trip.

Approximately 40% of adults in Europe hold a college degree, while in the United States, about 50% of adults have attained a college degree.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges. The number of US citizens with a 4-year college degree is 36.8% according to the 2024 American Community Survey conducted by the Census Bureau.

I think most of the discussion here is what I would describe as ”cultural envy” - things in Europe that people wish we had in the U.S. like better public transportation.

I don’t think you can really experience reverse culture shock after a short trip to Europe.

I definitely experienced reverse culture shock when I moved back to the U.S. after living in Europe for more than 3 years (Stockholm and London). I just felt out of place and unsettled when I returned to the U.S. I read a book about culture shock and reverse culture shock and it really explained why I felt that way and why reverse culture shock can be more difficult than the initial culture shock. Basically, when you move to a foreign country, you expect things to be different. Eventually, you develop a routine and your life in the foreign country becomes the new normal. When you repatriate, you disrupt that normal routine. You need to readjust to the routine in your home country. However, because it is your home country you expect this to be an easy adjustment. It is not necessarily. Things will have changed since you left. There is a gap in your knowledge about your home country. You’ve missed things in your friends’ lives and they can’t relate to your experience abroad. You miss some of the things from your life abroad and wish you had those things at home. It can take a while to develop a new normal in your home country.

I learned while living abroad is that some things are better than in the US and some things are worse than in the US but mostly things are just different.

@KGC, your comment about American drivers made me laugh out loud. I remember when I returned to the US (after mostly using public transit for 3 years), I was amazed at how impatient and rude so many drivers were. Shortly after returning, I was driving slowly down an aisle in a parking lot looking for a spot and a guy drove up behind me and just laid on the horn. I wanted to yell, ”It’s a @#$& parking lot” but I also knew I was back in the U.S. and didn’t want to be shot.

To those who have expressed doubt or confusion about how anyone could experience reverse culture shock, the term, as used in this discussion, merely refers to a new, or perhaps renewed, awareness of something. I don't think anyone is claiming a profoundly overwhelming or even "shocking" awareness. It's just that when you've been in a different setting, you're more attuned to differences. I concur with others that when returning to the US, I am always struck by the loud voices in public places, the poorly maintained roads, etc. This is in no way culture shock, but I also tend to notice things that have changed very gradually. After being away from home for a while, I'll notice things like my front door that could use a fresh coat of paint, the tree in my yard that really needs to be pruned, etc. Being away just increases awareness and changes our perceptions.

There are degrees of 'culture shock' and I think the first is just to be hyper-aware of contrasts between home and host culture. This is not an insult to your country. You can still love your country and think that there is room for improvement in varying regards. Often it will be something you didn't even notice before you left. Or actually noticing there are plus points for your home culture. I remember coming back from the narrow streets of Europe as a teenager and my father took me for a drive out to Maroubra and La Perouse (Sydney), where the streets are very wide. My response was, wow, people in Europe (and particularly the Netherlands) would go crazy for this much space. I learned to value some things we have, and wish that other things were different. For instance, after living in Germany and returning, I was well-trained in Germany and wished fervently that Sydney would have as good a recycling system (it took us a long time to recycle batteries, and more than twenty years later, soft plastics are still a problem). And don't think that experiencing an awareness of contrasts has anything to do with low levels of education, or sophistication. It doesn't. Anyone can have this. In fact, I think if you don't draw any comparisons between home and host culture, I'd be asking, why not? What are you travelling for? Did you not learn anything?

And by the way, living in Belgium and Germany for a few years, I did have full-blown culture shock living there, even though I spoke the languages and felt myself to understand the culture. It put me in a good position to have empathy for the students we send abroad now - I totally get it.

Lavandula

I haven’t read that book, although now it’s in my “to read before vacation” list, I do agree about the reverse culture shock. I get it every time we return to our home in the USA from our second home in Italy. Here in southeastern MA I have a word for the types of people you described in the USA in your topic. They suffer from oblivious arrogance. Also, like this generation knows, one doesn’t suffer many consequences from their actions or words so it’s more of a IDGAFAY (I don’t give a f___ about you) it’s all ME ME ME ME. And this type of behavior and language and misogyny disgusts me. Whatever happened to empathy, being nice to your neighbor and fellow citizens, humans.
All I know is for weeks on end when we go shopping at the local high end gourmet market we say “ even their excellent produce is no match for the produce from a simple supermarket chain in Italy like Esselunga or one in my wife’s town, Calolziocorte, Iperal, a real local supermarket, which has a wall of mozzarella of all types from different regions in Italy. None from abroad. Then, an entire aisle of ice cream and quality products, not the “frozen dairy dessert” since they can’t call it ice cream because the milk fat content is less than 10% and the rest is pumped in air to give it weight. So, yeah, I suffer from massive culture shock every time we (reluctantly) return.

People who let their perceptions of reality based on high income fantasy holidays to the finest destinations in Europe direct their judgments and understanding of the world are somewhat like the people in Plato’s cave allegory. They need to come to the realization that the truth is outside in the sunlight.

...Plato’s cave allegory

LOL, Mr. E, college philosophy many, many moons ago, and a good elucidation for my discomfort with the "live like a local" thing for just a week, 2 weeks, a month....

The best example of cultural shock I have ever seen was two old TV shows. The Beverly Hillbillies and Green Acres. LOL

The closest I personally have come to experiencing culture shock was growing up in a very small midwestern town, graduating from college and moving to Chicago. Now that was a cultural shock experience.

While customs are different like eating pizza with a knife and fork LOL or the language differences, I find people basically the same in the US as in other countries. There are good, kind and helpful people all over the world and each country has their share of the rude and obnoxious. Pickpocketing has become an art form in some countries.

Not sure I would say Americans are the loudest. I don't wear earplugs at home or in any hotels I have stayed at in the US, but they are certainly a staple in my travel bag.

Based on my observations at watching people especially those obvious tourists, I won't say Americans are the loudest of tourists but they are within the top two.

Threadwear, Fred; three things going on with the loud Americans statements; or at least my guess. First, Americans tend to be self-deprecating. Well, that may not be the correct term here since the ones making the claim about Americans never consider themselves to be in the group being criticized. But you get the point. We look down on others in our society more than we look down on those in other societies. Second, our ears tend to be attuned to our own language, so we are more aware of it. And third, maybe we are in the top group for talking loudly.

What I have read is yes, we are in the top group, but certain Asians, Spanish and Russians are equal or beat us.

Threadware, sometimes you push past all the nonsense and just state the truth. Thank you.

I find people basically the same in the US as in other countries. There are good, kind and helpful people all over the world and each
country has their share of the rude and obnoxious.

kate, I get what RS meant by living like a local. Within the limits of that definition if more people did it I think there would be more culture shock by Americans in Europe than when the American got home.

I am not in that group, obviously not, since I am not a loud talker, am quite aware of my volume, besides engaging in loud conversation or lapsing into it as the conversation becomes more animated , etc is considered in both France and Germany to be a sign of rudeness. I stated that I see Americans are among the loudest, not the loudest. I don't dispute at all that Asians , depending on the language, if you can distinguish that, (depends on that particular language), and the Russians are loud too, also in the top 3.

The question is , do they care how they are viewed when no doubt they are loud , louder than any one else in the room or space. My hunch is that they don't care at all, a matter of total indifference to them since they figure (most correctly) that no one else can under them anyway as they continue to chirp away unmistakably loud.

There are people who measure a good time by how loud the group gets. Greatly exacerbated by wine and being a thousand miles from home.

From my experience has a high school teacher who is an occasional adjunct professor during summer sessions at a local university, I do not subscribe to the idea that a college eduction equates to being more wordly, cosmopolitan, historically semi-literate, or even particulary well educated in general. Over the decades I've noticed the effects of grade inflation and entitlement in this regard, and an associated lack of rigor. Students use AI-generated papers that are not always easy to prove, except that these budding scholars suddenly evolved into using words and reflecting an intellecdt heretofore unrecognizable previously lol. It's a miracle!

"There are people who measure a good time by how loud the group gets. Greatly exacerbated by wine and being a thousand miles from home"

I'm a Brit - well spoken (I believe) professional. Quite used to Americans as I worked for a US based international law firm for a number of years.

Our for dinner in London with husband and two British colleagues. Imagine my horrified amazement when an American woman at the next table asked us to be quiet, as we were ruining her dinner.

Posted by Threadwear

The best example of cultural shock I have ever
seen was two old TV shows. The Beverly Hillbillies and Green Acres.
LOL

This.

Many of the comments in this thread could be said about differences in North vs. South, East vs. West, big city vs. small town, . . .

Our for dinner in London with husband and two British colleagues.
Imagine my horrified amazement when an American woman at the next
table asked us to be quiet, as we were ruining her dinner.

After seeing John Cleese on Fawlty Towers, I can see why some folks think the British can be loud!

Happy travels.

I have found that generally people are about the same all over the World.
However, differences do exist.
1) I have been to China three times and have encountered Chinese tourists in other countries. When you get to know them, even for a relatively short time, they are nice and friendly. Still, in a public setting, they do not line up like we do in the USA and Europe. They are VERY aggressive, cutting in line and are very impolite. Still, I understand that behavior, having been to China with its 1.5 billion people all crammed in together in their crowded cities. I remember waiting in line for over an hour to enter The Blarney Castle in Ireland and having some Chinese tourists cut in line ahead of us. It make many people very angry.

2) I visited Germany for the first time in 1982 and my first impression seeing Germans talking to each other in public, it seemed that they were angry with each other. It didn't take too long to understand that it was my perception due to the fact that the German language is very gutturally spoken. Also, I have been told that speakers of Latin languages, spoken softer, can have the same impression of English speakers. I think what language you are speaking can lead to perceptions of being loud by others.

3) Later, when living in Germany, I went skiing in Austria and took lessons from Austrians. We had a few Germans waiting for the ski lift and they tended to be just a little more aggressive than us or the Austrians. The Austrians, told us that they considered Germans tended to be more aggressive. Not sure that works, but clearly some Austrians thought so.

geovagriffith, brilliant.

Fascinating thread.

A few quick comments.

1. Though the comment that "some" Americans may travel to Europe to enhance their social status may be literally correct, I believe this is true for relatively few. Not true for me. Probably not true for anyone else on this thread. The reaction I get is why are you are going there.

2. BigMike, enjoyed your comments. But nobody serving in WW2 served in a silo. Your grandfather's life depended on people from totally different backgrounds and parts of the country. Watch "Band of Brothers." Even better in my view, watch the miniseries "The Pacific." And for so much of the nation, the Great Depression was a shared experience.

3. Visiting a country is different from living in a country. At the moment, I am posting from a city in Germany. And am irritated that I can't watch day 4 at the Masters. But I have been struck by two things. One, people are not as heavy--they are so much more physically active than we are. Two, they seem so civil--the level of social trust just seems higher than at home.

More to the point, and qualifying that this could in fact be real or imagined, but having traveled extensively last year in rural France one thing that struck me is how civil people are to each other ... Coming back to the US what I saw again was the societal division, serious lack of conviviality, the “I’ve got mine” attitude and an underlying “aggressive” mindset

You've captured very concisely why I'm moving to France. It's just so much more pleasant here, and people gather socially every evening.

I'm sick of the huge uptick in incivility in America, most of which I attribute to one politician whom I won't name.

Bienvenue jphbucks.
We’ve had a huge uptick in people moving to France, particularly this year.

"One, people are not as heavy--they are so much more physically active than we are"

Well, I don't know that that observation holds true for all parts of the US vs Germany, but it is true that some geographical regions in these United States have a problem with their Body Mass Index. We have tried time and time again to exploit that European phenom and lose weight on our European visits. We drank beer before noon like the Germans, ate dinner after 7pm for twice as long as we do at home and walked 20, 000 steps a day. Still gain weight no matter what. On our December trip to Austria, I had been weighing myself daily in the hotel and was dropping weight fast. So I thought. Turns out I was measuring my weight in Kilograms and not Pounds. Crazy metric system. Disappointing it was. I might be making assumptions, but I'm convinced the reason the European men are a little thinner has something to do with the fit of their trousers. Those skinny cut modern trousers could lead to some inconvenient anatomical issues otherwise. Lastly, this is just conjecture, many of us are descended from European rejects and outcasts. Our DNA profiles lack some specificity. We might be predisposed to the appearance of being overweight, when in actuality we just have big bones. Really lastly, if we are going to be honest, German civility stops where the bike path begins.

Here in Hungary the ones living above poverty are as fat as Americans. Too much pig fat. Everything is either cooked in or contains pig fat. That was one culture shock.

The other culture shock was the extent to which those with disabilities are excluded from society in Europe. Unimaginable in Texas.

One thing of many I admired about Germany when we lived there during the 80s and 90s is that they actually, in general, follow rules and law, and dressed and conducted themselves appropriately depending on the setting. What I see here in Virginia and West Virginia is more like the wild west sometimes on the roads and highways, and beyond.

Also, at the time, there were FAR fewer fat or obese people and they were more active walking and on bikes. I used to see people actually not using a car to pick up a few things at the grocery and bakery. I haven't been there since about 2000 so maybe things have changed.

To me, the over-riding reason I keep returning to Europe and why I am rattled/schocked on return, is that Europe feels so much more humane than the US. I think, generally, Europe seems to emphasize community over individual. You see it in the way the cities are designed ( a lot of community space, a lot of benches), what they fund (transportation, health care, education-don't see many home schooled kids), recycling (a lot of neighborhood community collection areas). People are out and about, they take care of the parks, it is an extension of their home. You see people sweeping the sidewalks near their house. Street cats and dogs are fed. And yes, there are exceptions.
The US seems to value individualism vs community so a different outcome.
Maybe it is because of so many wars, so many different governments over hundreds, thousands of years- people realized kindness and community is what matters, and sometimes it is life or death. Maybe it is due to history being obvious, putting everything in perspective. (just guesses)

Context: We are currently nomadic and are usually in Europe 6-9 months then back to the states for a few months, on repeat (since about 2018). We usually stay outside of tourist areas. Many individuals are friendly, kind and thoughtful all over the world-I have rarely met someone who is not.

On a recent visit to Washington, D.C., traffic safety officials conducted targeted, high-visibility "pedestrian safety actions" to enforce crosswalk laws because some vehicles would simply not stop for pedestrians. At first I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

We have signs locally that vehicles must stop for "pedestrians within the crosswalk." No kidding. What's the alternative, hit them?

It is rare a car will actually stop if they see you waiting at a crosswalk with signage. I think it would help if there was a solar-powered flashing light or something to get the drivers' attention. Otherwise it's just another sign nobody pays attention to.

I happened on this earlier today while having coffee and reading the news . How much we miss here in the states - https://youtu.be/yElC6Bxsf9Q?si=62a5G4XmcKmLdegX

While one may dispute or quibble on the exact numbers, it is factually accurate that Americans leaving the US for certain countries in Europe in the last coupe of years has definitely increased more than ever, with specific countries as the goal, eg, Portugal, Spain, France in the the lead.

Fred, I am sure you are correct. I read that in 2024, 180.000 US citizens (0.0516% of the US population) immigrated out of the US ............. while 1.8 million non-US citizens immigrated into the US. It will be interesting to see what happens when the wars spread.

@ Mr E...Those entering the US include folks escaping from their predicament in their former country, such as the horrors of the war in the Ukraine . Those Americans deciding to emigrate abroad in the past couple of years view life politically and financially less disagreeable than what they perceive and witness here, that "American Way of Life" It's relative but there are concrete reasons as well, depending on one's value system.

While one may dispute or quibble on the exact numbers, it is factually accurate that Americans leaving the US for certain countries in Europe in the last coupe of years has definitely increased more than ever, with specific countries as the goal, eg, Portugal, Spain, France in the the lead.

Do these numbers include Rosie O'Donnell and George Clooney? 😊

One of my favorite lines is a song from Tom Petty, "My Life, Your World." To me that's a healthy way to look at things. It also has Biblical connotations to be "in the world but not of the world."

One major difference. How clean and litter-free so many highways and cities are in Europe

RJ, that's right often times In Poland we didn't even notice a candy wrapper nor cigarette butt on the ground. It was amazing.