Remember the old phrase "Ugly American? We, as visitors to

It is cringe worthy when you see that, but, as we all know other nationalities can be( and are) just as bad, I think it may just be easier to recognize Americans ( to us anyways) because of distintive accents sometimes.

it's not fair to say this is only an American problem. ANYONE from ANY country can act like this, in ANY location. I've seen plenty of Japanese and Chinese groups here in the Seattle area acting loud and obnoxious too. Stupid people are everywhere.

I hear you Pat! This has become one of my pet peeves, I even notice it when I'm here in the U.S. -- more even. I am naturally quiet by nature, but what is the point of loud talking, obnoxious laughing all the time? I get this at work among certain people in the office, who think they have saucy personalities -- (when there is no excuse of alcohol causing it). I this what we have to do to tell ourselves we are having fun, and partying? It is really ego-centric, obnoxious and ruins a nice experience for everyone.

Yup- ugly people are from everywhere! After reading the archived Graffiti Wall on Ugly Americans, I was thinking of the Ugly Canadians I used to see when I waitressed and lived in college in Bellingham (right across the border). I've seen Ugly Germans at Disneyland and saw some Ugly French at Zion last summer.

Thank you Pat...I find it entertaining and interesting to hear these stories. What I don't understand is why, when anyone starts one of these threads (including the archived UA thread) some oversensitive Americans have to post about how its not just Americans that are obnoxious when they travel...and that not every American is obnoxious. We all know this. No one is insinuating that Americans are the only obnoxious travelers. Don't be so sensitive. Pat is not talking about you personally, there is no need to be offended.

I don't understand why people behave so loudly/obnoxiously in public at home, much less as visitors to another culture. I had an experience in Nice where a steriotypical "Ugly American" and family and friends sat down at the table next to me and my friend. The guy was quite large and owned hotels in NY. He began a conversation with us by leaning over and, in a confidential tone (that the whole cafe could hear), told us all about how he can't say 'merci' it always comes out MERCY! He was loud, rude, and condescending to the waiter through his entire meal. The waiter, who had been quite personable with us, developed a pinched look around nose and mouth (the type of expression that I think causes people to think the French are turning their noses up at them). When they finally finished he asked my friend (who's fluent in French) to help him figure out the bill since yet another thing he doesn't understand about the French is tipping. My friend helped him leave the poor waiter a very nice tip - which was already factored into the bill of course =). Maybe not nice but... something along the lines of karmic (or at least poetic) justice I like to think.

Cam

First Europeans wear the speedos covered by the shirts.
Secondly, they wear Speedos on the beach or by the beach. I lived and travelled a lot in Europe and never seen a person wearing speedos in downtown or walking around in Paris like that.
But I saw girls inside a convenient store here (not close to the beach) wearing just shorts and a bra, no cover.
What's considered dumb or being dumb in Europe is different then here.
I met people here who didn't know that using a hair dryer in a bathtub with water in can kill you. I personally consider this very dumb, but some Americans don't. They just say "I didn't know" and life goes on.
I went to Canada a few time to their French areas and I can tell that the people working with the public are not as friendly as Americans. They don't smile or they don't really spend much time with a custumer like here.But I don't call this being rude.
Same happened in Holland. I asked the guy from the reception of a hotel to open a door that would have saved me some trouble carrying 4 pieces of lugagge up the stairs and he said "no".

Hello,
Right now I live right outside of Heidelberg. Now that the tourist season is approaching, you can definitely notice American's. My husband and I have learned to be more European while living in Germany (we do not talk loudly and do the normal things that American's tend to do). You can always point out an American when in a different country. Especially those younger men who wear their clothing 10 sizes to big and wear large jewelry. Its simply ridiculous looking. The one thing I can agree with on the statement another blogger posted on how ugly people can come from everywhere, Germans can be quite rude, they will jump line, even if you've been waiting patiently until your turn. Thats the one pet peeve I have about Germans is they are not polite in that area. Britians are also loud. While in Sorrento, there was a group of young ladies screaming at the top of their lungs. At first my husband and I thought they were American until we heard the accent, so there can be ugly people from everywhere, not just America.

Pat, I think we ran into this same group in Rothenburg last year!
We sat near a group with loud southern accents wondering why all Germans didn't speak English, and if they didn't speak English it was because they "might not be too bright."
It would have been funnier at the time if it wasn't so embarassing.

Of course other people from certain countries talk loud, but in a different way or not as loud as "ugly Americans". It happens here at home and abord as well.I always recognize Americans anywhere I go,and it's not the accent, it's the body language, the loud laugh and talk, all together.
By the way, Germans talk very low, French and Italians talk a lot and gesticulate a lot, but I still can't hear them very well in restaurants as I hear the "ugly Americans".
I agree with those who said some people are too sensitive to some true facts about themselves.

Oy! That just brought to mind a terrible scene I witnessed last October in London. Some American from the "East" coast was whining about how AWFUL England was, how terrible the people were, and how she's glad that she's going back home to the US.

I just wanted to tell her "Hey Lady, you're still in London. Our plane doesn't leave for 2 hours".

To top it off, the plane was delayed taking off. Mechanical problem. So Ms. Loud Mouth had to "mouth off" some more about how crap the airline is. Ironically it was Delta, an American airline company.

Oy!

There are "ugly" everything...When I first started giving tours in the U.S., I'd encounter groups from all over the world...

The Korean group in Zion National Park who took photos of the "please don't walk on the grass" sign and then followed their tour director, in proper single file, over the grass.

The Swiss group in Yosemite NP who couldn't be bothered with going to the toilets and relieved themselves at the side of the road next to a viewpoint filled with people.

The Japanese groups who pushed others out of the way so they could take their photos. No 'excuse me" or "sorry." All they do is get off the bus, take photos, and get back on the bus. Like they'll enjoy what they see through the photos.

The German group at Yosemite who thought is was a beer hall and started singing--loudly.

The Chinese passengers who thought western food was beneath them and insisted I tell them where the closest chinese restaurant was at every meal stop.

And I could go on...And for each negative, I could come up with a positive group from the same countries.

You see, people are people. If we stereotype them rather than see them as individuals, we get nowhere. Yes, there are loud and rude Americans. But there are also loud and rude everything else.

Why don't we rename it. Let's just say there are good travelers and there are bad travelers. The good ones want to blend in, experience the culture and live like the locals. The bad ones want it to be just like home. And when it isn't they're going to do whatever they can to make it like home. In truth, they fear something different.

I agree that tourists from any country can behave badly, and I have experienced this too. But it would be good if the Americans on this site could influence our fellow US travelers to behave in an exemplary way.
(and those from other countries that post here can do the same).
Perhaps we should post bad behavior to the "Ugly American" link or do it here, to keep people aware of this ongoing issue --- (as we do constantly for those who insist on wearing shorts!).

Dear Abby...

DEAR ABBY: On a recent trip to Europe I learned firsthand the meaning of the term "ugly American," which stems partly from the loud, obnoxious voices we sometimes use in public.

When Europeans are out in public they converse in low, modulated tones. They carry cell phones as we do, but rarely did I see Europeans use them, and never loudly. On trains, they walk out of the train car and answer their phones between the cars, so they won't disturb other passengers. And only once did I see someone answer a cell phone in a restaurant.

For some reason, Americans seem to need to be constantly on their cell phones. It's almost as if they have a compulsion to prove to those around them they are important or have friends. Well, they would gain far more friends if they turned off their phones and smiled or spoke quietly to the human seated next to them. -- TRAVELER IN SAN DIEGO

DEAR TRAVELER: Here we go again on the subject of cell phone manners. People who plan to travel outside the country need to keep in mind that once we cross the border we become unofficial representatives of the U.S.A., and first impressions can have a lasting impact. That's why it's wise to ask a travel agent or read up on your destination before leaving to learn what the local customs are in the place you are visiting -- and this applies not only to the use of cell phones, but also to how you dress and whether or not it's appropriate to take photos.

I do not see how wearing shorts is being obnoxious and "ugly american" especially when I see european travelers wearing speedos walking down busy streets with button down shirts wide open. I think shorts tend to be a little more modest than that...I also speak French fairly well and when I was in college I worked in a very upscale part of Sarasota FL where many wealthy tourists come to visit. I waited on a french couple who was very rude to me and then in french called me a dumb little girl. I was shocked I had not done anything to deserve this there was not any problem with the service I was giving them. Yet to them I was a dumb american and they had the nerve to call me that in america! It is everywhere you go.

Why is it if a European is rude, it's "their custom." If an American is rude, it's being an "Ugly American."

I love visiting and learning about other cultures. But I also like coming home.

For those of you who think Europe is so much better, why don't you move?

I'm really tired of Americans putting down Americans as the worst and everyone else is wonderful. The Canadians here don't put down Canadians. The Australians don't put down Australians.

We may not be perfect, but you know, we're not that bad. If you really think somewhere else is better, go live there. Not just visit. Not just as a student. I mean live 100% with their economy, their job market, their taxes and their beauracracy. You'll soon see this "Nirvana" that RS tries to make it seem like, becomes much different when you actually live there.

To my European friends, I hope you all come to visit us someday. YOu will soon learn that Americans are not our TV shows or our government. The vast majority of Americans are kind, friendly people who are always willing to help. In fact, they will be just as interested in you as you are in them.

And don't just go to the cities and Disney World. Visit our back doors. It's funny, Americans love to run to Europe but very few have seen their own country.

I think the reason Americans are quick to observe Ugly Americans is because we're all aware of the reputation Americans have historically had when it comes to travel abroad. Certainly there are obnoxious people from every country, and you can find them wherever you travel. I just think American travelers notice UAs more because a lot of us are doing our best to show people in other countries that our bad travel reputation doesn't represent the majority of us. I personally don't care that much if I see obnoxious tourists from other countries when I'm traveling - I might be annoyed, but I don't think too much about it. But because I'm trying to be a conscientious and thoughtful traveler and representative of my own country, I'm a lot more sensitive to obnoxious Americans. Does that make sense? Everyone can be a bad traveler, everyone can be a good traveler. We Americans just like to discuss Ugly Americans because we're more aware of them, and because to some extent they reflect on us.

Frank, its not about Americans putting down Americans. Its about being considerate. For the most part, we Rick fans are not that way. We are more travel saavy and try to learn how to blend in.

We are talking about the sterotypical American who bullies the person to "Speak English", rather than trying simple phrases in the foreign tongue.

Its not about being "pro-European" and wanting to move over to Europe. I love being an American. I do think that if I am a Guest of the visiting countries, I need to respect their customs, and act accordingly.

When other people come to the US, I expect the same. They should learn key words in English, and learn simple things like personal space, etc.

The recent Expedia Survey of European hotel operators rated Americans as among the best tourists in the world in almost all categories, including attempting to speak the local language and politeness. Only one category kept us from being the best, and we all know what that category is, so I'm not even going to mention it.

I find this to be a fascinating discussion, especially when it comes to being loud and using English vs. French or Italian or whatever language the country you are in happens to be.

When I went to Italy, I tried to be conscientious, quiet, well-behaved, considerate, and all those things that make up good breeding and behavior, regardless of your nationality. However, the challenge for me is that I'm hard-of-hearing, which means my ability to judge how loud I am is off, as well as my ability to hear other people who are speaking softly. This also creates "processing" delays in hearing, processing the information, and responding. When I would try to use my very limited Italian, things broke down very quickly. I could start off in Italian relatively well but two sentences into any conversation, I was automatically back using English.

Also, I think it is important to consider the individual vs. herd mentality. Frank's tour group examples are a good illustration of how people's behavior can and tends to collectively grow worse the more insulated they are. The times I spent with my tour group, it was much harder to remember to use Italian, monitor my volume level, etc. When I was on my own, I knew the attention was more focused on me, and I was almost overly conscious of how I was putting myself across.

I also suspect there is an ebb and flow to these things. Americans have had the "ugly" label for so long, that we are now trying to break free of that and have made good efforts to speak the local language, etc. But first impressions always take time to change.

Bea-
I know what I saw, and the shirt wasn't covering anything - the shirt wasn't even closed, and we were not at the beach. I am not trying to argue but I saw it and more than once.

I am not labeling all tourists from Europe as this way but I did see many with their fashion faux pas and many dressed very elegant. I think it is rather the person not always the nationality...

Cam that would be upsetting to be called "a dumb little girl", but think of all the waiters and metro workers who get called " stupid frogs" by tourists who are frustated the " rude waiter" isn't understanding their english, LOL

When insulted I have always considered the source. If Mother Thersa called me a "b*tch" I would be devastated ,but, if it is a grumpy rushed watier snaps at me I figure he had a fight with his boyfriend or girlfriend before work and I don't take it personally, LOL

Liz my mom had hearing issues( she would not wear a hearing aid as she said none would work with her problem, possible I don't know?)
What made it very frustating for all concerned is never really told people about the problem. I mean outside of family. She kept the problem to herself, so in group situations ( where hearing became very difficult) she often lost track of conversations and then did the " nod and smile" trick. Which actually made her look rather clueless. Frustrated me to heck because if she had been more honest things would have been ALOT easier for her.

Tell people you need them to repeat things, or to speak more slowly for you in french, tell them you have a hearing problem. They will respect you for being honest and will likely try harder to make things easier for you.
My mom started cutting back on participating in socail functions because of her hearing, what a shame as she was young enough to still have lots of fun( her hearing loss started in her sixties) .

Don't allow that to happen to you Liz, there is too much stuff to enjoy out there!

"It's funny, Americans love to run to Europe but very few have seen their own country."

Dead-on, Frank. How many on this forum have been to Nebraska? Or the Dakotas? Or Kansas? Or Iowa? Or Montana? Or Oklahoma? Or Ohio? Or Indiana? Or Arkansas? Or Idaho? Or Alabama? Or Alaska, etc?

Americans have sometimes embarrassed me in Europe. But I'll never forget an experience riding the gondola down from Murren. The second the car docked, a group of tourist rudely pushed forward to get into the car first. I have never heard such loud talking as I heard traveling into the valley. And what language did they speak? Not English, but Italian!

So yes, Rickniks, rudeness and bad behavior are not traits unique to Americans abroad.

"How many on this forum have been to Nebraska? Or the Dakotas? Or Kansas? Or Iowa? Or Montana? Or Oklahoma? Or Ohio? Or Indiana? Or Arkansas? Or Idaho? Or Alabama? Or Alaska, etc? "

Been to Kansas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Idaho, and Alabama (of those listed) and will be going to Montana this summer. ; ) I kind-of think I might be in a minority, though, and I agree with you. I was kind-of appalled to read somewhere that Rick said he didn't have any experience with the US train system.

All you have to do is hit a local bar or a tourist attraction to run into obnoxious people of every background. My German relatives (including my mom!) speak much louder than my American relatives do by far. I am quiet in public, I use my hands to talk (German mom and years spent there), and I say please and thank you (in the native language) and try to treat people with respect at home and on vacation. My German step-grandmother complained constantly the whole time she visited the U.S, and my American grandmother complained when she visited Europe (of course, she complained when she left California PERIOD.)

I think the general take-away is to have some manners when out in public- rudeness sucks. Also, try to be an ambassador for whever you are from, whether you are an American in France, a German in the Italy, or a Californian in New York.

This has been an interesting discussion! Like others here, I've seen examples of "ugly tourists" from many different nationalities while travelling in Europe. I'm disappointed to say that some of them have been Canadian. One example was a girl that I encountered in London last fall - she didn't seem to be happy with anything there, as she was making comments like "why can't they learn to speak properly", "why don't they drive on the right side of the road" and of course none of the food was "good enough". I had to stifle myself several times, as I came close to telling her "quit your b!tch@ng - if you don't like it here, perhaps you should stay home!".

I try not to stereotype different nationalities, but that's something that takes constant effort. Several weeks ago in Sorrento, I travelled the Circumvesuviana from Pompeii, along with a large group from the far east. They were very "pushy" getting on the train, and it was annoying to see healthy men from this group taking a seat while older Italian women were forced to stand (I stood also). One other point to make is that I was recently speaking with restaurant and hotel staff in Italy and Austria, and they said almost without exception that the one nationality they don't like dealing with is the Russians (who seem to be travelling more now), as they come across with a bit of an "attitude". That seems to be one nationality that doesn't seem to get mentioned too often in this context?

Like many who have commented here, I try to be a "good Ambassador" for my country when travelling. Let's hope we get some more comments on this.

Cheers!

Well Frank, even though I love traveling to Europe, I too have been to many cities and states in the US -- too numerous to mention here, and I am planning at least 2 trips to US cities this year. I'm proud of being an American, and I want to be proud of my fellow citizens when I'm abroad. Usually I am, but when you encounter an "ugly American", you feel like it reflects badly on your country. I don't think Americans are the worst tourists, but we should go for being the Best!

I couldn't agree more. My husband and I went to Ireland last May '08 and there was a family from Texas on a small Celtic tour with us. The "kids" were in their 30's and and kept correcting the tour guide or second guessing him. They all kept talking when he talked, were pushy and kept leaving trash wherever they went.

I'm never embarrased by the behavior of strangers. Sometimes I am amused or surprised or disgusted by others behavior.

Its my own belief that "Ugly Americans" are ugly where ever they are.

Well said Tracee! And I also agree with Emily when she said that, as Americans ourselves, we tend to notice other Americans when they are rude. Though everyone has stories about ugly travelers from other nationalities, you don't notice other nationalities as much, because you don't care if they reflect poorly on you...you only care if they are rude directly to you or possibly around you, or if they inconvenience you. If there was a "loudish" German at the next table, and you couldn't understand him, you would probably not even notice him, even if he was complaining about you! Whereas the American who is complaining about the food, or the train system, or whatever else pings your radar because you understand what he is saying.

On a side note, I always find it humorous that people are so worried about stereotyping others. Stereotypes exist for a reason. What I try not to do is generalize negative behavior, but stereotypes are only dangerous when you use them to discriminate. I find that most of my favorite comedians base a large part of their routines on stereotypes. I laugh when I am stereotypical. We shouldn't be so sensitive. Understanding and peace come don't come through political correctness, they come (partially) through your willingness not to take everything personally and your willingness to laugh at yourself as you simultaneously learn about the world around you.

That is what bugs me so much about rude travelers. They seem to think that everyone else is only in the world to entertain them or get in their way and they aren't really interested in learning about other cultures at all. Why spend $10,000 to go to Europe if all you wanted to do was be in America? Epcot Center at Disney World is a great place to see the world if you aren't really that interested in being inconvenienced or really seeing anything, but only wanted to ride some rides and drink German beer!

I am Austrian, have lived in the States for many years, and am now doing guided tours in my native Wachau valley in Austria.

In my opinion most American travelers are absolutely wonderful and polite, and really make an effort to be good ambassadors, and good guests.

Many Europeans (myself included), are a bit touchy when it comes to the issue of 'Ugly Americans', because of the nature of the ugliness. Once you`ve been told we Eurowimps should be kissing the boots of the American visitors, out of gratitude for liberating us and bringing democracy to our shores, demanding certain things loudly and obnoxiously, it unfortunately leaves a lasting impression.
I was recently told by an American that he is paying for my five weeks of vacation and National healthcare with his tax dollars, working his butt of, so that we Europeans can live like kings.

I actually thought that was very funny though! ;-))

But like I said: most American visitors are totally okay, and I enjoy them very much.

It is really unfortunate that a few ignorant people cause Europeans to dread the 'American Superiority Complex'. When we encounter rude visitors from other cultures, they are looked upon more as rude individuals, period.
I find the most challenging travelers the ones from the former East Germany, they assume from the beginning on that they are being short-changed and receive second hand treatment, it is then nearly impossible to make them happy.
And the Chinese visitors are on such an insane time table and travel very fast, in very tight formation - you better get out the way, they WILL run you over!

I interact with Passengers from all corners of the globe on each and every Flight I operate.

It's so easy to stereotype travellers based on their behaviour and place of origin. I've learned not to allow myself to stoop to that level. I try to evaluate each person on an individual basis. As travellers, we must be aware that although there are Cultural differences among people, the concept of "Common Courtesy" must always prevail.

A rude or disrespectful person is just that, a rude and disrespectful person. They are everywhere! There is no shortage of entertainment if you're looking to be entertained.

My love of Travel was born out of domestic Travels throughoutthe US and Canada. I am a firm believer in "See North America First" as the slogan toutes.
I will always promote my own...As a Canadian, North American and Travel Professional.

"How many on this forum have been to Nebraska? Or the Dakotas? Or Kansas? Or Iowa? Or Montana? Or Oklahoma? Or Ohio? Or Indiana? Or Arkansas? Or Idaho? Or Alabama? Or Alaska, etc? "

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, No, es, Yes, Yes, No, No, YES.

While I am currently living in Europe and learning about life here, I have travel extensively in the US and have seen very amazing things - Colorado (my home) is outstandingly beautiful. Utah, California, Oregon, all wonderful. Chicago is a fantastic city as is D.C. Alaska... I can't wait to go back!
I have not traveled extensively in the South or the Northeast - places I plan to visit when I return to the US.

I think it is easy for us to overlook all the great sites in the US and romanticize Europe. There are great sites and great experiences here in Europe. There are also many, many problems here that the average traveler won't see.

One thing I have learned is that while there are obnoxious people from every culture, there are also kind, generous people from every culture. People willing to help you out when you are in a strange place and barely speak the language.

I still remember being in Paris... my husband and I were puzzling over a map on a street corner. A man on a bicycle nearly had an accident as he hurried to stop so he could help us with the map.

I was just at the vet with my dog here. A Slovak man brought in orphaned kittens. He was clearly upset about the kittens and worried about their fates.. another example of kindness that touched me.

Maybe we should have a discussion about kindness encountered while traveling??

Ann

I had an experience in Germany.I was in line at Neuswanstein castle when a japaneese lady pushed me aside and went in front of me.My wife almost died laughing.She was about 20 inches shorter then me.That same evening we met another japanesse lady at dinner.We talked with her for over an hour and she was delightful.There are nice and not so nice from every country.

I enjoy the Japanese. But they are used to living in a country that is the same size as California but for many decades has had 4 times as many people as California.