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really confused with EURAIL train system, please help...

Hello,

Me and my wife are planing our 1st independent travel to Europe from Sept 1st thru the 18th. We have an idea of a plan and so far it is: from Tampa to Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, Vienna, Salzburg, Munich, Bern (Interlaken), Zurich and back to Tampa.

My confusion is the train system ticketing (price, reservation, extras, etc). I'm unable to get prices for those dates as well as unable to get the right train with the correct benefit/cost ratio.

The part of the trip from Amsterdam thru Prague and from Munich to Bern (Interlaken) would be via airplane but I cannot figure out the passes I will need to make it as affordable as possible in order to catch the right train from Prague to Vienna, Vienna to Salzburg (then Hallstatt), Salzburg to Munich and then once in Switzerland from Bern to interlaken (Gimmelwald, Lauterbrunnen, Murren)

Would be cheaper to buy the tickets independently at the stations or a EURAIL or country pass? Would the pass cover the small train, bus and ferry to Hallstatt and the gondolas lifts in Gimmelwald, Murren?

Thank you in advance for any help,

Marco
Tampa Bay, FL

Posted by
650 posts

There isn't really a Eurail train system. Eurail passes are a thing, but Eurail trains are not. What there is is different trains operated by different public and private companies in different countries.

I don't know of any pass that covers trains, ferries and buses. To determine if a train pass is worth the money, do the math. Outside of Switzerland, its hard to make discount cards pay. Chances are individual tickets will be cheaper than a Eurail pass if you buy tickets 90 days out. When you compare prices keep in mind that many trains require reserved seats and that the reservation price is not covered by Eurail passes. However, you generally can't buy tickets more than 90 days out, which is why you can't get prices for September in February.

To estimate train prices in advance, I suggest www.seat61.com. Seat 61 is the best train resource on the net. For boats and ferries use rometorio.com for a rough estimate or click deeper into the site to reach the actual bus and ferry companies.

Posted by
7175 posts

Fly: Tampa to Amsterdam
Fly: Amsterdam to Copenhagen to Prague
Train: Prague > Vienna > Salzburg > Munich > Zurich > Bern > Interlaken > Luzern > Zurich
Fly: Zurich to Tampa.

Off my head I would suggest ...
Book ahead point to point for Prague > Vienna > Salzburg > Munich > Zurich
Swiss Travel Pass for Zurich > Bern > Interlaken > Luzern > Zurich

Posted by
27253 posts

Marco, that's quite an aggressive itinerary you have planned, with 8 overnight stops in 6 different countries. Do you really have 18 full days, or is it fewer? Is September 1 the day you depart from Tampa or the day you arrive in Amsterdam? Do you fly out of Zurich on September 19?

I'm very glad you set up open-jaw flights, since you save a day by not having to return to Amsterdam.

Posted by
7175 posts

I didn't pay much attention to your timing, and would also consider it too short for what you describe. With only 18 days I would start in Prague or Vienna.

Posted by
8889 posts

Marco, There is no such thing as the "EURAIL train system", that is why you are getting confused.
Eurail is a marketing company, that sells rail passes and some tickets to people outside Europe, mostly in North America.
They do not own or operate a single train. Some people complain that the range of tickets they sell is limited, and cost more than gettiing them from the actual train operators.

Trains are operated by many different companies, mostly national companies, but also many local companies. The systems all connect, and it is possible to travel on trains on lines owned by different companies seamlessly. In virtually all cases it is best to buy direct from the train company.
This is a gross simplification, but in general for long distance trains it is a lot cheaper to buy in advance, you get discounted prices. For local trains, advance purchase discounts are less frequent or not at all. But each company has its own rules. Passes are rarely worth the money, but the exact break even point varies by country.

I suggest you read the the "Man in seat 61" website. Which explains everything. Start at this webpage: http://www.seat61.com/Europe-train-travel.htm
And then go to the webpages for each country (listed down the left hand side of the page) which explain all you need to know.

Posted by
11613 posts

Eurail sells passes and tickets. You would probably do better by checking point-to-point. You really only need tickets for Vienna-Salzburg, Salzburg-Munich, and Bern-Zurich.

Posted by
11294 posts

The Man In Seat 61, which has already been recommended, really does have it all. Spend a few hours with it, and you'll be set. Do start with the page Chris F linked.

Here's his excellent discussion of the issues involved in buying rail passes vs. individual tickets: http://seat61.com/Railpass-and-Eurail-pass-guide.htm#railpass-or-point-to-point-tickets

To find schedules for almost all of Europe, use Bahn (German Rail) website http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en, following Rick's tutorial: http://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains/online-schedules

This will only have prices for trains that start or end in Germany. To find prices for other tickets, use the list on Chris F's link (here it is again http://seat61.com/Europe-train-travel.htm).

For Switzerland, if you go to Swiss Rail, you can not only find out about trains, but also buses, boats, lifts, etc. However, be aware that the first price shown on Swiss Rail is assuming you have a Half Fare Card. http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html

Posted by
4140 posts

Both Chris and Harold have given you the links to the bible ( as it were ) of European rail travel . The important principle to bear in mind , is that one must walk before learning to run . Too many travelers are looking for isolated specifics about one ( or several ) trips without a grasp of the generalities of how the rail services operate . The " 61 " website will provide this , but it needs to be studied , a bit here , a bit there , over a period of time to grasp the basic techniques , This is not something that is a one hour cram session . If you are willing to devote a fair amount of attention to it , the rewards it provides for future travel are incomparable . There are similarities within the systems of the different countries , but also differences , some straightforward , some , fairly nuanced . Time spent on the site is very worthwhile .

Posted by
19118 posts

You can probably find the fares for each leg from one of the national rail company's websites. Loco2 does give you one place to get all of your tickets, but be careful as they don't always give you the best route or price. For instance, they don't seem to understand regional trains or regional passes

Case in point: I'm planning a trip for this spring and one of my travel legs is from a small town on the Main between Frankfurt and Würzburg to a small town in the Allgäu. Loco2 shows many connections, the fastest of which is 5H54. The lowest fare shown for any connection is 48€ for 2 passengers with a 2nd class "semi-flexible" fare. Semi-flexible means you are committed to a specific train, and there is a fee (probably 19€) to cancel or modify the ticket.

I plan to do the trip with regional trains. The trip will take about ½ hr longer (6H29), but I can do the trip with a 31€ Bayern-Ticket. With the Bayern-Ticket, you are not committed to a specific train and there is no need to pre-purchase the ticket. But Loco2 does not offer this option.

So, I'm not saying not to use Loco2, but just use caution because it does not offer all of the possible connections and fares.

UPDATE:

Loco2 has real problems. At the end of my trip I am planning to come into FRA from Bacharach on the 9:36 RE, a direct connection getting to FRA at 10:35. I picked Bacharach because it is in the fare area for RMV (Frankfurt metro) and the fare is 11,95€ per person, 23,90 for two.

Loco2 shows two connection around my desired departure time of 9:36, one at 36 minutes past midnight, the other at 14:23 with a change in Mainz. The second connection has a price of 37€. My desired connection leaving Bacharach at 9:36 is not even shown.

Posted by
16894 posts

Work on firming up the destination plan before you spend too much time comparing ticket prices. For most of your destinations, I would not want less than a bare minimum of 3 nights and 2 full days for sightseeing. That only gets you around to the highlights of a big city, with no time to daytrip to any smaller town nearby, which can be equally interesting. Salzburg (or Hallstatt) and Zurich are the only cities where I would take less time.

Do you want to visit Salzburg or Hallstatt or both? Bern, Interlaken, Lauterbrunnen, or all three? (We prefer sleeping in Lauterbrunnen or higher up the mountain, not usually in Interlaken.) Travel time, costs, number of travel days, and sightseeing plans all depend somewhat on accurately naming the destinations. Passes don't cover the €2.40 ferry ride from the Hallstatt train station to the town.

Rail pass coverage of lifts, buses, lake boats, mountain trains, and other features in Switzerland vary between a Swiss Travel Pass and Eurail Pass for 2 or more countries; see our 2017 summary.

Rick’s Train Travel Time & cost Map gives you a quick overview of faster train travel times in hours, as well as regular (full-price) 2nd-class fares. You might cut those fares in half by booking ahead, but it's also good to know the upper benchmark.

Posted by
20289 posts

Don't use Eurail pass.
Vienna to Salzburg can be done using Westbahn, travel anytime for 26.50 EUR pp, buy tickets on the train, or with an advance purchase non-refundable ticket on Railjet for 19 EUR pp.
Salzburg to Munich can be done with a 2-person Bayern Ticket for 31 EUR, travel on regional trains after 9 am M-F, all day weekends.
Bern to Gimmelwald should be about 50 CHF pp.
Oops. Marco deleted his reply.

Posted by
11 posts

I don't know why it was removed, it's showing on my end... anyways here it is:

Thank you all for your great suggestions and tips. The seat61.com website is an awesome source of info. At this point I removed Copenhagen from our trip in order to distribute those days into the rest, so far this is the itinerary:

-Tampa to Amsterdam (via Iceland Air) leaving sep 1 at 15hrs arriving sep 2 at 13hrs
-Amsterdam to Prague (air) leaving sep 4 morning/midday
-Prague to Vienna (train) leaving sep 6 morning (4hr trip)
-Vienna to Salzburg (train) leaving sep 8 midday (4hrs trip) (touring Hallstatt on sep 9 maybe)
-Salzburg to Munich (train) leaving sep 11 morning (1.5 hrs trip) (touring mad king castle or eagle nest)
-Múnich to Bern (air) leaving sep 13 morning (1hr trip)
-Bern to Gimmelwald leaving sep 13 morning ( maybe staying in Bern to tour the city for a few hours) (3.25 hrs) arriving at 13hrs.
-Gimmelwald to Zurich leaving sep 16 midday (3hrs trip)
-Zurich to Tampa leaving (via Iceland Air) sep 17 at 14hrs arriving at 21hrs.

Round trip from/to Tampa with IcelandAir is as of today $1055/pp. not bad I think
i think the best would be to buy a combined EURAIL select pass 2 countries (Ger/Aus), the Swiss travel pass and some point to point train tickets (Prague to Vienna for €19). If you guys have better suggestions please let me know...

Thanks again and buen viaje!!

Posted by
20289 posts

Gimmelwald to Zurich airport is about 95 chf. If doing a couple of trips to Schilthorn or Wengen, might think about the Berner Oberland Pass. 4-day pass is 250 CHF and that covers you from Bern airport to Bern to Gimmelwald to Luzern, and Gimmelwald to Muerren and Wengen and Kleine Scheidegg, and half fare on the Schilthornbahn. Luzern to Zurich airport is 30 CHF.

Posted by
27253 posts

From what you've described, I don't think you need the Germany/Austria pass. Have you priced out point-to-point tickets for the purpose of comparison? You're not doing much more than traveling the E-W length of Austria and from the Austrian border to Munich.

Posted by
11 posts

@acraven, I was thinking about the EURAIL pass (2 countries) because I was going to use it to visit Hallstatt and Neuchwanstein Castle too. I looked for some point to points but I will look more in depth.

@sam, based on what I research, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the Swiss travel pass for 4 days 2nd class would be $263 comparing with the BO pass for $247 + $30 for the ride from Luzern to Zurich. As far as I understand both type of passes covers the cable cars between Murren, Gimmelwald, Lauterbrunnen, Wengen, etc and the 50% off to Schilthorn peak. Thanks for the idea of the Bayern ticket, I will research more into that.

Posted by
650 posts

Marco,

I know you didn't ask about your itineray, but just reading it makes me exhausted.

Amsterdam 2 nights (that's one full day and a jetlagged afternoon)
Prague 2 nights (perhaps a day and 3/4s sightseeing)
Vienna 2 nights (a day and maybe a half)
Salzburg 3 nights (2 full days)
Munich 2 nights (1 and 3/4 days)
Gimmelwald 3 nights (2 full days)
Zurich 1 night.
You'll be more relaxed, be happier, and see more if you have fewer destinations. Currently you have 18 nights on the ground and 7 destinations. Choose three or four destinations and it will cost less, you will see more, and you won't spend so much precious time checking in and out of hotels. I'd begin by combining Munich and Salzburg. Daytrip one from the other.

Consider this:

Amsterdam 3 nights
Fly to Prague 3 nights
Vienna 4 nights
Munich 4 nights
Gimmelwald 3 Nights
Zurich 1 night

If it were me, I'd also cut either Prague (mostly picturesque walking through mideveal and art nouveau dreamscape) or Vienna (mostly art and palaces) and add the days to your remaining destinations.

Posted by
20289 posts

@sam, based on what I research, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the Swiss travel pass for 4 days 2nd class would be $263 comparing with the BO pass for $247 + $30 for the ride from Luzern to Zurich. As far as I understand both type of passes covers the cable cars between Murren, Gimmelwald, Lauterbrunnen, Wengen, etc and the 50% off to Schilthorn peak.

Correct. I don't like to mix USD and CHF in calcualations, although they are very close as of today. The Berner Oberland Pass includes a couple of additional items, Like Wengen to Kleine Scheidegg to Grindelwald and Wengen to Maennlichen to Grindelwald.

But, if Bern airport to Bern to Gimmelwald to Schilthorn to Gimmelwald to Zurich airport is all you plan, the out of pocket full fare cost is about 234 CHF, and that is the lowest cost. As you can see, the Swiss cleverly price passes so you will probably pay about the same amount no matter which way you pay for your tickets.