Random Passport Check

I think jos answer is the most realistic,, some of you are funny,, you really think they would take an obvious American tourist and throw them in jail for only having a photocopy of your passport.. really, like they have nothing better to do with thousands of illegal immigrants flooding their country.. ? I carry a copy and a DL.. and will continue to do so.. who knows maybe you will read a snip in a paper about a middle aged Canadian tourist being thrown in immigration jail.. but somehow I doubt it. I have heard they are stricter in Italy then France,, probably one reason I like France better ( other then the food and wine) .. lol Note: when I am travelling to another town by train for a daytrip I do sometimes bring my passport and credit card( normally both stay in hotel safe) in case something comes up and I have to stay in the city for the night and need to grab a hotel room( like a train strike etc) , plus obviously if in another town then your passport its not as easy to simply be escorted to hotel to get your passport to show if needed.

The is the sum of the perpetual argument about carrying or not carrying the passport. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. We always carry ours because it is the only thing that proves we are legally in the country.

Yeah, good to know! I always carry mine, too.

Which gets us exactly back to Rule 1. It can also be demanded by three burly rangers if you step off the trail in the Swiss national park trying to corral a butthead kid.

Never could understand how people felt 'legal' traveling in Europe by leaving their passport in a safe. Might have the risk of getting stolen if you are not a careful traveler, but might have the risk of getting thrown in an Italian jail if you don't have it. I always carry mine and am thankful I had it today, as I was miles from my hotel...

Nothing happens unless you are a person of interest. If you are a person of interest, they will simply go with you to your hotel to see your passport. I don't know, but I have spent 27 years here and have never been asked for my passport, nor ID, unless I was traveling between countries. So, I don't carry my passport on me. If I was driving a car, then yes, but not day to day. When visiting another country, my passport usually stays in my room, and if there is a safe, then in the hotel safe. I have other forms of photo ID to use if needed. Had my passport stolen once and for the next 5 years, immigration in the US was a huge pain.

Jo... I was in Siena and my hotel was in Florence... so if I had no other ID, then what? I don't carry my US drivers license with me over here, and since I was not driving my IDP was in my hotel... but I can understand as an American living in Europe you don't always carry your passport, but from their attitude, I was happy I had my passport. Don't think they would have wanted to come all the way to Florence with me.:) Without ID how would they know if I was a 'person of interest?' Just a bit unnerving...
Need another glass of wine and some risotto as this is my last nite in Italia:(

My wife and I always carry our's. Always! On the train from Luxembourg to Germany there were some cops on the train doing about the same thing that happened to you. They singled out a well dressed upper middle age couple for further scrutiny. At the border the train stopped at a station. A voice came over the intercom that there was trouble with the engine and that we would take off momentarily. Fifteen minutes later the voice said the engine was broken and we would be disembarked for another train when it arrived. Probably a half hour later the other train arrived. Outside our train were some more cops, a few in plain clothes. As we were allowed out the doors the cops descended on the couple who had drawn attention in the train. They were surrounded and moved on down the platform. We suspect the long halt was only to allow an accumulation of more cops before arresting the suspicious people. Always have your passport with you.

Always love the routine post, "I have traveled for forty years and never had my passport checked." Which proves absolute nothing beyond one individual's experience. And somehow, I really doubt the idea that the police are going to take the time to escort you to your hotel so that you can produce your passport. But then I don't understand the frequent objections to carrying the passport either. Do what you are comfortable doing and recognize that they could consequences to either action.

Always, ALWAYS have some form of legal ID with you when traveling. Even those that do leave their passports in the hotel, you BETTER be carrying a drivers license and copy of your passport. That may not completely satisfy an identity check that Terry encountered, but no ID will definitely land you in the hooch. Plus, accidents do happen and you need to have proper ID on you in the event you are not conscious. As most of say each time this comes up, legally your passport should be carried at all times. Thanks Terry for reminding us that such checks DO occur, despite people's decades of experience to the contrary...

I almost always have my passport with me (the only exception was last month at a "textile-frei" Therme (spa) in the Black Forest. I think it is safer in my money belt (neck pouch, actually) then in my hotel room. By the way, at eight places we stay on this trip, we were never asked by the host to even see our passport, let alone give it up. I was once required to leave some form of identification (could have been my driver's license) with the librarian to use the library's public Internet computer. BTW, with everything in a Schengen computer database these days, I suspect that, if they had your passport number from a photocopy, they could check that you were in Schengen legally.

Terry kathryn, This is a good reminder of why I always carry my Passport with me. One never knows when they might be subject to these random checks, and having "official" ID documents is required by law in many places. I've lost count of the number of times I've encountered Police officers (uniformed or plain clothes) on trains in various countries who were checking I.D. Most of the time they haven't asked me, but did single out certain passengers who were scrutinized extensively. In a few cases, they've escorted people off the trains at the next station (possibly under arrest?).

They checked every single person in my car...really kind of strange. I was the only American. All the rest were locals and they produced some kind of ID that folded in half (not a passport, about half as big) but did have their photo inside. Maybe a drivers license or state ID?

I'm the same as Frank on this, better to have and not be asked than vice versa. I carry mine as both valid ID and proof of entering/staying in the country legally. We tend to forget Europe has immigration issues too - it sounds like the police on this train were primarily checking immigration status of all the passengers.

I live in Marseille, and in the past (thankfully no more) I suffered from bouts of insomnia. One "cure" I had for this was to go for a short walk in my neighborhood outside rather than pace around in my appartment trying to find sleep. Generally I would just walk once around the square or a small distance down one of the connecting streets before heading back. Anyway one night, at around two in the morning, I was doing my little walk, when a car drew to a halt next to me and a man jumped out and waved his police badge at me. The first thing he said to me was to ask for my ID. I said I didn't have it but I lived nearby (and pointed out my building as it was very close) and said that I was willing to get it for them. He then asked me what was in my my pockets so I took out my wallet and my keys to show him. He briefly looked through my wallet, and then waved it at me saying: "What's this?" - "It's my wallet" - "What's it for?" (Me, slightly puzzled) - "er... for my money?" - "Yes! And for keeping your ID!" He then handed it back, got back into his car and they sped off. I was probably right not retort that my ID was a passport and wouldn't have fit into my wallet anyway. Law inforcement people don't necessarily like people acting like smartipants at 2 am in the morning.

When I leave the house to go somewhere here at home I always have my ID with me, so why would I go around overseas and NOT have my ID with me?

....we follow the sensible approach of leaving our passports in the hotel .... What is sensible about it? And those of us do carry our passports are we following a un-sensible approach? That is ridiculous !! No one way is superior. Use your own judgement.

"sensible approach" You don't need to be making a judgement comment about how I handle my traveling habits.

So I happened to catch the live webcast this past Saturday of ETBD's "European Travel Festival" and saw Rick Steves speaking during "Packing Light and Right". In front of a studio audience, and on camera, Rick admitted he leaves his passport in the hotel safe and does not carry it on him when he is out and about exploring Europe (gasp!). He also said he packs jeans (double gasp!) in his regulation size carry-on bag. And he admitted he does not wear a money belt all of the time when he is strolling around Europe (triple gasp!) - he only wears it when he feels he might be in a high-risk situation. He also copped to poaching unsecured wireless signals by parking himself strategically with his laptop. OMG! It must be the seventh sign of the Apocalypse... the Master himself is breaking the rules. Where does it stop?! Will he pilfer an extra croissant off the free breakfast buffet to eat later at a picnic lunch and condone such an atrocity? Perhaps Rick is just traveling in the style he finds works best for him after the hundreds of lengthy jaunts he's made to Europe.

Perhaps Rick is just traveling in the style he finds works best for him after the hundreds of lengthy jaunts he's made to Europe. Or perhaps he's a multimillionaire with a big staff in Washington State and other employees scattered throughout Europe who could bail him out of any jam with just one phone call. For the rest of us peasants.....not so much.

In France it's mandatory to carry your national ID card. That's what the cops were saying to Ian. Put the bugger in the wallet. He's lucky he wasn't pulled into a station. The cards you saw locals showing, Tk, are national ID cards. Evidently, Italians still have the folded card board ones. The French cards are now a bit larger and plastified. These are totally separate from driver's licenses. Sweeps to check ID are very common in France, particularly in the Metro later in the evening and by the side of the road, but then you'll have to blow into a balloon, too. For me the inconvenience of not carrying my passport is that I can never remember where I stuck it away afterwards.

I don't think Ian was lucky,, I think the police just looked at him, spoke to him, and duh.. realized he wasn't worth dragging into a police station as he is not the profile of who they are looking for.. they really do not think the average tourist is in the country illegally..they are not after you.. And Rick being a millionaire has NOTHING to do with how the average cop or immigration officer would treat him, they have no idea how much money he has..Rick realizes he doesn't fit the profile and likes leaving his passport in his hotel safe where its safe, and a moneybelt is too hot to wear all the time. But its nice that some people like to wear them all the time.. nice for them so they don't have to worry . I just don't have the anxiety level some people do about needing to have pp with me all the time, different strokes..

Have you ever thought that Mr Steves maybe travels with a posse: camera, sound, lights, producer, make up, advance, stunt coordinator, shirt ironer Think about it, perfectly pressed solid shirts from a carry on that were sink-washed?

I seem to recall that when Mr. Steves films his TV shows, he travels with a fairly minimal crew. I'm guess the ironing is done by the hotel. Lets put all this passport checking in the proper perspective of the current world situation. Yes, there have been reports about increases in passport checks over the past few months, particularly in southern Europe. But the purpose of these police actions are not make sure that Ricknik Bob and Judy haven't exceded their 90 day Schengen limit. It's to identify the migrants coming illegally from Africa and the Middle East, and to nab some of the fighters returning from the wars in Somalia and Syria. Now, I've never met Terry Kathryn, but I doubt her appearence would raise any suspicion of illegal activity. But the point of radomly checking everyone is that it shakes up the pot, and makes it easier to identify the real targets. Plus, it avoids problems of racially or ethnicly profiling those people who may fit the profile but live in Europe legally.

Tom I agree with much of what you say, but I don't think the police in some countries are as concerned with the appearance of racial profiling as perhaps they are in some other countries. I have seen police walk up to three ladies that were walking in Paris and frankly the ladies were pretty obviously not North American tourists.. the ladies took papers out and the police seemed to be reading them carefully and questioning them. These ladies were not "working the area" that I had noticed but frankly, looked like they could be.. this was just behind Notre Dame.. I had a perfect view as I sat on a bench and just watched. The police walked right by me though after talking to the ladies ..

What exactly is "un-sensible" about carrying your passport? I carry ID even when I am walking in my own neighborhood.

Yes, the story proves that when crossing borders on a day trip r/t, one had better have the passport. In the last few years I've crossed between France and Germany, Germany and Austria, sometimes more than once on the same trip, Germany/Poland, and this summer a day trip from Germany to Amsterdam. Sometimes I am not asked for the Passport. They say exactly that word. On a day trip, I carry it on me. This summer I hadn't crossed into Holland in forty years but was asked once the ICE train crossed over. Two Dutch police officers, a man and a woman, wearing ID, in civilian clothes, asking in English for everyone to show the Passport, which means my Calif Driver's Lic. would have been frowned upon. With almost everyone the procedure appeared perfunctory, except with this young Asian man in a suit who was asked for his visa and passport and a number of other questions on why he was going to Amsterdam. When it is announced over the intercom that the train has engine, whatever trouble, I never believe it. It's a convenient code phrase to mean anything, ie. waiting for more police backup, etc. I've heard that too when they say "aus technischen Gründen"...that's why everyone has to get off at the designated stop, the train winds up sitting there for the next half hour or so, or so some other result.

If RS travels alone with just the photo page from one of his guidebooks, it's probably ID enough... I was on a bus traveling through Croatia and Bosnia when the bus was boarded by police twice. Everyone was checked, one passenger was taken off the bus. Apparently there is a lively black market commerce and the passenger had made a lot of border crossings in a short period of time (another passenger translated part of the conversation). So, profiling is not just racial, but involves all kinds of data depending on what the police are looking for.

"If RS travels alone with just the photo page from one of his guidebooks, it's probably ID enough..." Believe it or not, he's virtually unknown amongst the general public over here (not sure about Britain, though). Probably as well known in Europe as, for example, Günter Wewel would be in the US.

Zoe I agree in different places ( eastern Europe) there are likely some other factors on who gets stopped.. The one thing I do disagree with you though is on your assumption Rick Steves is well known in Europe.. er, I don't know any locals in england ( we have friends there) Germany ( ex hubby has relatives there ) or France( my relatives and friends) who has a clue who he is.. the only ones familiar with him would be the hotel owners he lists in his books or uses on his tours.. he means nothing to anyone else there.. hes just another weird looking American tourist.. or if with film crew, then just another travel show host or documentary film maker.. The reality is there are many North Americans who don't know who he is either.

In Europe, people have national ID cards, but to have them in America would lead to voter disenfranchisement?

Terry Kathryn wasn't trying to vote in Italy. She was taking public transportation.

Not every country in Europe has a National ID card. The United Kingdom has long resisted such a thing. They started down that path, but then repealed the legislation.

We in the U.S. already have ID cards that are accepted nationwide (drivers licenses and state issued IDs). Seriously James, do you really want the Federal government to issue a national ID card?

We are already required to show ID when we travel on planes. Some states have "stop and identify" statutes that allows the police to demand ID (e.g. Arizona). Most of the States do require ID at the polls.

I'm not seeing a lot of difference in this matter between Europe and the U.S. Some countries in Europe have national ID cards and some don't. In some countries, police stop and demand ID and other countries they never do this.

Laura, James is just trolling. Best to just ignore his comments.

^^^ Agreed. This forum should remain about European travel, not get political.

Tell that to the owner of this website domain.

Regarding racial profiling. I was talking to an Iraqi expat and his German wife, shortly after the 9/11 attacks, at Oktoberfest. He said he had fled Iraq because of Hussein. While we were talking the Polizei came and pulled him aside for questioning, then left with him. I have no doubt he was questioned because of racial profiling (everyone was scared to death of further attacks then) and possibly the fact that he was talking to an American (me) made him even more suspect (from the police's perspective, he may have been targeting me).

They checked every single person in my car...really kind of strange. I
was the only American. All the rest were locals and they produced some
kind of ID that folded in half (not a passport, about half as big) but
did have their photo inside. Maybe a drivers license or state ID?

Most likely an old style national identity card.

The bottom line here is that you are required to produce a valid form of ID (passport or national identity card) if requested by the authorities and while they may accept other forms of ID they are not required to do so. Furthermore they are fully entitled to detain you if you can not able to produce such documentation, until such time as they satisfy themselves of you identity.

Furthermore, you should remember that failure to provide the officials with the required documents is a breach of Schengen rules and should the authorities decide to log the incident on the Schengen system, you may find that you are refused entry the next time you present yourself at a Schengen border point.

So if you are a citizen of a third country (not an EU or EEA citizen) then there is a lot at steak, but at the end of the day people will do what the want to do and no doubt some will come back complaining about the unreasonable police, customs officers and so on...

.. hes just another weird looking American tourist..

No he's what we'd call an "Educated American" - meaning he is has some understanding of how the rest of the world works :-)

@Fred... just to clarify... I was not crossing any country border. I only went about 50 miles on the train from Florence, Italy to Siena, Italy. Also, since I don't travel on the train very often (I usually drive) I have been checked twice in about 10 trips...so high odds for me. Not trying to tell people what to do, simply telling my story:))

this is a test

I was kidding about RS not needing ID, by the way.

We know. Just pointing out that the man's fame doesn't extend to the populace of Europe.

He's not George Clooney, but Rick is a fairly well-known public figure in the US. 60 Minutes wouldn't have done a feature on him if he were an obscure travel blogger. He can be easily be found on most all forms of mass-consumption media and is also known for his political activities in ganja reform. His face raises millions of dollars for PBS stations around the entire country each year(and amazon.com).....that's fame.

What, Michael? I got distracted by the words "George Clooney" and couldn't read the rest of your post. I wonder if there's a Clooney forum?

Pretty much everyone I have ever mentioned the name Rick Steves to have never heard of him. Those of us that watch PBS are a small minority.

His TV shows don't only appear on PBS. They also been on the Travel Channel and HDNET. His shows are also popular in Youtube and Hulu. American Airlines wouldn't sponsor if it had s narrow audience.

Sorry,,I like Rick,, I have been to see Rick speak ,I have some Rick guides, I have watched his shows, I have even taken one of his tours( the Family one,, loved it) but Rick is not well known out of North America at all... and even here many of my friends do not have a clue who he is.

Off the subject of passport checks, but my 2 centimes: the European Travel shelves at my local Barnes and Noble are filled with blue and yellow books. He's well enough known in Bloomington, Indiana that I don't think he'd have a passport checked here.

Whatever. Fact his faccia has made him a millionaire a few times over....that's all that matters.

http://youtu.be/QUcepZdl9RQ

In Bloomington, IL there are plenty of RS books at Barnes & Noble, too. But that doesn't mean that people on the street know who he is. He might be well-known among those who travel to Europe, but that's not a big percentage of people in the general population.

I view my passport as the best form of ID that I possess while traveling.

• I know that if I take a train or a plane, if the ticket is actually issued in my name, that the passport proves that I am the rightful ticket holder.
• I know that if I need to make a transaction in person, in a bank, that I will need to show my passport.
• I also know, that in most places, I need to show my passport when I check into my accommodation.
• I always know, in advance, of where by law I must carry my passport and valid visa on my person (like when I was in Russia last year).

The rest of the time, I don't need it and I don't carry it with me. It stays safely stashed in my stuff.

I always carry another valid piece of photo ID with me: my driver's license. Mostly to prove that my credit card is actually mine ;-)

Since my camera comes everywhere with me, I always start a new memory card with a clear digital photo of my passport. I also keep a couple of photocopies stashed in the bottom of different bags, if I have them: my checked bag and my carry-on.

So, in a situation like yours, I probably would not have had it on me and been subjected to several additional questions being asked. But I would have approached this situation like many others: with respect, patience, confidence, and with the attitude that a smile and common sense would prevail...

FWIW, there are many people on this forum who have never heard of Rick Steves...

Since its not a big whoop to do so, I just keep my passport in my moneybelt On My Body at all times. I don't even know it's there, but I know it's there.

"There are plenty of people on this forum that never heard of Rick Steves."

That in and of itself is virtually impossible, by that I mean everything he does, sells and recommends are literally staring them in the face. It says Rick Steves in the URL! At that point they've heard of him.

Barry, there have been several OPs over the years who've found this forum through a Google search and had no idea where they'd landed. Even after asking different questions on different threads, they still didn't know where they were...and would keep asking 'Who's this Rick?' LOL! We always 'splained things to them ;-)

So true what Eileen said. I've seen it many times.

Diane, what's with the logic? You're supposed to imagine hypothetical nightmare scenarios that end with you in a Turkish prision!!

I find it funny that the expats don't carry their passports on their person everywhere, when we're at home and when we're traveling, but people who don't live here seem to think their traveler's mindset trumps experience. OK, I guess, but that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Here's the deal: Passports are an awkward size and don't really belong in a pocket. Passports are a HUUUUUUUUGE pain in the tuchus if they're lost/stolen. Bags and wallets, as we know, can be forgotten or snatched quite easily. The only way I'd feel safe carrying a passport on my person is if it was in moneybelt/neck wallet.

Which is what most of you do. Which is good for you, I guess, if you're willing to do it. For the less paranoid, however, it just makes sense to leave the passport in your luggage in your locked hotel room, or in a hotel safe if available, you know, with the emergency credit card and whatever. It's just the safest place for it outside of the moneybelt, which I refuse to wear except in places where there's a serious risk of actually being mugged.

I mean, my passport is the only document I have that shows I'm legal to be in Germany, but do I carry it around with me on my day to day business in Stuttgart? No. That's insane. Yet how is my not carrying it here, as an American citizen who lives here, at all different from an American citizen who's visiting? If I was stopped by the polizei, I'd be in the same situation as a tourist, I'd have to show my other forms of ID and hope that was sufficient, and if not, the cop would be accompanying me to my home. Simple as that.

I know dozens of foreign nationals who live here and not a single one of them carries their passport with them on a day to day basis. What, exactly, is the difference?

Sarah has made very good point.. but I fear that fear rules some travellers, but that is their right. I know I need my pp to to banking in Europe,, but never have had any banking to do , and most banks in the places I go would not do business with a foreigner with no account there anyways so not sure what banking others have to do.

I detest shopping on holiday and I would never spend the kind of money that would entitle me to any tax refund so no need for PP for that .

I know I need passport while travelling, so yes, if I left the city I was staying in for a daytrip I would take my passport.

I just don't get needing to take it to go for lunch, or to go to a museum etc.. And in the case of the Louvre and Orsay where they ask for your passport to keep for collateral for renting an audioguide.. NO WAY would I give it to them.. they are more likely to lose it then me.. I hand over my easily replaceable local drivers licence and they have always taken that instead.

"I really cannot understand why people ... want to carry it around with them."

Well, I feel my money belt (neck wallet) is the safest place I have to put it. Why do you put it in your luggage? Why don't you leave it lying around in your "locked" room? Probably because you feel it's safer that way. That's why I carry it, along with everything else I want to keep safe.

BTW, I once returned at the end of the day to my "locked" room. It was still locked, but the maid had left the key in the lock, on the outside of the door.

"Diane, what's with the logic? You're supposed to imagine hypothetical nightmare scenarios that end with you in a Turkish prison!!"

LOL, Sarah!
BTW, I leave in a couple of weeks for the Christmas markets trip that you helped with advice earlier this year... thanks again!
- I intend on burying my passport with my purchases, back in my room ;-)

"Not many people know where Canada is or even what it is" says whatisname from Griffith. (Griffith?) But you know, we kind of like it that way.

Here's a few reasons we are glad we carried passports:

1. Took a train from Cortona to a soccer game in Florence. Needed passports to purchase tickets and get into the stadium
2. Another day took same train to Florence for the day and took a Segue tour. Passports were required to rent the Seques (we didn't know this in advance)
3. Vatican- I believe we need passports to either go through security or go on the Scavi tour, not remembering which.
4. Colosseum tickets- I believe we needed passports to pick up our tickets for the reservation on line.

Had we left these in our luggage or hotel room safe, we would have been out of luck.

At the hostel in Vienna where I've stayed a few times Wombats, the guest has to turn over a picture ID as collateral otherwise you don't get your room/locker card key. What am I going to do, give them my passport for safe keeping? I've seen some guests actually offer that as collateral. No, they actually don't want that; instead, I turn over my Calif Driver's License. Admittedly, the first time I did this collateral thing I was a bit nervous.

It depends on where I am if I am going to have the passport on me at all times in doing day to day traveling. In Germany, England, Austria traveling within a city I tend to leave it in the hotel room...no safe. If I'm staying at a hostel, I carry it on me. In France about 50/50 when traveling in a city, but regardless of the country, if I am taking a day trip with the the bus or train, then I carry the passport. The rest of the countries in western and central Europe the passport is on my person no matter if I am walking around in a city or doing a day trip.

On crossing borders as a day trip, say from Germany to Amsterdam, or Nürnberg to Cheb (CZ), even Munich to Salzburg, the passport is with me to be sure.