Rail Europe - before you buy (buyer beware)

General rules re rail passes;

Don't buy them unless;

1) You are planning to travel like a college student trying to see every city in Europe in one semester - going to a new city every day or two.

2) You are planning to use it ONLY on very long, very expensive runs.

3) You have no time or desire to learn about the many complicated ways to routinely save 70% or so over regular fares by planning ahead and locking in a date.

And even then, never fall for the notion that 1st class is ever worth the extra cost. A seat is a seat. Both classes travel to the same destination at the same speed.

Tamara...depending on when you plan to travel, and what routes you're travelling, it may still be worth your while to cash in the rail pass, lose the 15%, and book cheap "Web" saver specials at www.renfe.es. Give us more details and we can let you know whether it might be workeable.

Yes, I know that the 1st class seat arrives at the same time as the 2nd class seat. why do I feel the need to justify this decision? We did the first class ticket as it was only $60 more per person, which seemed reasonable to us, and we wanted the reclining seats (husband did) and we had heard it was better for the luggage storing. 1st class really not the point - if they won't book you a 1st class seat, it doesn't matter what pass you have. Now we know.

As for the numbers, I can't make them work. we would get a refund of $481 USD. We have a trip from BCN to Madrid, and then round trip from Madrid to Seville. (3rd day on pass was TBD)I was using 1st class tickets from renfe to compare "apples to apples" and come up short even with just 2 trips. However, with the additional $210.If I go to 2nd class, I can make it work. If I book with renfe, will that include the seat and the reservation? I don't want to end up again paying more than we were anticipating
What kills me is that I thought we did the research, and that is why we talked to a customer rep to get our questions answers. It is just a shame that they are more concerned with sucking you in. At no point in the reservation process were any of these additional charges noted. For example, in the "about rail passes, it was not noted on this web page that you would have to pay additional for a seat, that was somewhere else in the navigation and you had to "dig" to find it. A reasonable person should expect this to be noted in the process of looking at a pass and ordering a pass.

I didn't mean to be snarky regarding 1st class seats. Rick Steves says essentially the same thing in much the same way. He also adds that since locals almost always travel in the lower price 2nd class seats, it is a good opportunity to mix and see a bit more of the "back door" so to speak. That said, it is a bit incongruous to choose to spend more on 1st class and then be upset about extra charges in other aspects of the fee system.

Trains are a business. Some trains are more desireable and/or more expensive to operate than others. A "pass" of any kind cannot be expected to be treated the same way by every train company on every run. They make up for the need to charge more by using seat reservations. It's no more tricky or deceptive than any one of a hundred little pricing tricks you encounter in your every day life here.

Frustrating, perhaps. But that's capitalism, even in Europe.

Tamara,

One more comment to add......

For future reference, you might consider buying Railpasses from ETBD, as they're one of the largest vendors in the U.S.

Their outstanding Railpass group will be able to provide solid and accurate information on the most appropriate pass for your circumstances.

In all fairness to Rail Europe, the practice of paying a supplement for seat reservations on "premium" trains has been in effect for quite some time. If Point-to-Point tickets are purchased, the reservation is included. If a Railpass is used, the reservation is extra cost.

Cheers!

If it was bought with a credit card and you don't want it -- can't you just cancel payment and start over?

You don't say how you're trying to book your reservations. RailEurope is the most expensive way to make seat reservations. Euraide can be cheaper, since they charge actual reservation cost plus a fixed service fee per total booking.

I thought the passes sold by ETBD were RailEurope passes, just sold by ETBD as their agent. Last time I checked the pries were identical.

Peter, it is also my impression that ETBD gets their passes from RailEurope, but they are not "RailEurope passes".

They are Eurail passes (www.eurail.com). Eurail is a joint effort of the national rail companies in Europe to package and market these passes. RailEurope is just one of many resellers.

RailEurope does make available single country passes, straight, apparently, from the national railroads, which Eurail does not market.

A good reason to purchase a pass from ETBD is the many bonuses you get for free along with them, like maps, travel skills DVD, in addition to a discount from the Travel Store.

Thanks everyone for the insight. Interestingly enough, I ran some numbers, and ended up getting tickets off of renfe with no issues and for less than costs for RailEurope. Here's an irony - when I booked on Renfe, the train I was reserving has 2 cars of 1st class - only 3, yes THREE seats on both cars were reserved. Those must be the 3 that RailEurope has as their "block of seats" and why they couldn't put me in 1st class. Yeah, right! And yes we will be disputing this with our credit card!

Just to add a few notes for other's benefit.

First, while the pass may have or may have not been a good value for the circumstances, Raileurope did not misrepresent the pass, and while the charges can be disputed with the CC company, you are likely stuck with the passes, or should be, per the terms and conditions of the sale.

Second, Raileurope is not the best place to buy point to point tickets. They only sell popular, high dollar routes, at a mark-up. The same can be said for reservations.

Third; It was mentioned a "only train" that would get you to where you were going. This may be true of the options that Raileurope sells, but likely there were other Regional or Intercity trains that went the same route, maybe required a change of trains and certainly slower, but would require no reservation, only your pass.

Finally, Renfe could have been likely used just to make the reservation, as opposed to buying a full ticket.

In the end, the lesson learned is gather all the costs related to travel before buying, considering not only cost, but schedule, personal preferences (like First Class), and even convienience and flexibility of schedule. Passes do still have a place in travel plans (I used one last fall) but the homework needs to be done first to justify them.

I have used rail passes in the past (2nd Class, no reservations). I usually don't use them now because I keep my travel legs short and a day of rail pass is more than point to point. For a really long leg, the pass might be a good deal.

I've also gone first class (point to point) with reservations, but that's when traveling on business and someone else is paying.

The good news, although it won't make you happy, is that second class is fine. You really don't need first class to be comfortable.

Paul

Sorry I dont agree. Several times I have purchased tickets thru rail Europe and rec'd a better price than thru the rail companies own website.

Last Xmas, for example Eurostar London-Paris return. The difference in the price beween Eurostars website and RE was so great (a $20 difference each way) I assumed it was a mistake and actually call RE to confirm. Nope, it was correct.

There are advantages to buying from somebody that purchases squillions of tickets a year.

Larson....you may have found one "deal" through RailEurope, but it may also have been a factor of the Eurostar website selling out sooner. After buying dozens of rail tickets over the web in recent years, I have NEVER found RailEurope to be cheaper. I think it can be safely concluded that using RailEurope is only as a last resort.

I can certainly concede that RailEurope may be able to come up with a good price, and if it were on the EuroStar line, that would make even more sense, since I would consider that run to be a special instance. They seem to have a multitude of options, specials, and pricing based on restrictions (or lack there-of), than any other rail system out there. It may very well be that RailEurope had access to discounted tickets and passed the savings on to you, or may have picked up a ticket with restrictions that may not have been offered through EuroStar. As an example, for years it was cheaper to buy a same day roundtrip ticket, toss the return, than to buy a typical 2nd class fare, not everyone caught on to this, but enough must have, since they no longer offer the same deal. ADDED NOTE: While some cheaper fares for one way tickets are shown on Eurostar, the cheapest are often sold out, making the RT option cheaper than the standard second class fare available. I would encourage anyone to compare for themselves to get the best deal.

I also did fail to note in my earlier post a comment that was made, that RailEurope showed no First Class seats, but Renfe showed many...Generally rail lines will restrict on premium trains the number of seats that can be reserved in combination with a railpass. This may have been the case, just another quirk to consider when comparing a railpass vs point to point.

I don't understand the prior post. I'm seeing one-way Eurostar tickets from London to Paris for as low as £39. I'm not sure how buying a £69 round-trip ticket and throwing the return half away makes sense.

"There are advantages to buying from somebody that purchases squillions of tickets a year."

"Purchase tickets". I guess you don't know how the world works. RailEurope is owned mostly by French Rail. They sell tickets. They sell tickets online to the whole rest of the world, and in France, at one price, and to North America at a higher price. If you occasionally find RailEurope selling some tickets at a lower price, they are only trying to lure you in so they can "getcha" on the next one.

Just for one example, a ticket price about which I am constanty being asked, from Frankfurt to Munich:
RailEurope's price: $142 (possibly with extra shipping)
German Rail's counter price for the same trains: $123 (€91)
German Rail's price for slightly slower ICs: $99 (€73)
German Rail's purchase ahead Sparpreis ticket: $39 (€29) (about the same money risked as with a RE ticket)
Slower, regional trains with a local RMV ticket and a Bayern-Ticket (for 2 people) $29 (€21.15)

Paul

"Raileurope is not the best place to buy point to point tickets. They only sell popular, high dollar routes, at a mark-up."

Sorry Paul, in this particular case they were precisely the best place. And its happened more than once. Its a matter of doing the legwork. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. Its called shopping around

"Purchase tickets. I guess you don't know how the world works."

Lee--where do you get off making such a ridiculous statement? I'll put the depth, breadth, and number of stamps in my passport up against yours any day...

RE isnt "luring me in" to "get me next time". They're selling a product that I can choose to buy or not..depending on price, circumstance etc. No different than any other product or service.

Finally, I dont care who owns what railway, airline or travel service. Why would that make the slightest difference? I shopped around, got an excellent price versus what the Eurostars own website was willing to sell me. Done deal.

Larson....I'd be interested to follow you along the next time you seek to purchase rail tickets in Europe, comparing Rail Europe to the national rail websites. I have never seem them lower priced on Rail Europe, and I have never seen them offer the deep discounts offered by the national rail websites....and that has been through a lot of shopping around. I think you are probably the first person on this board that has ever reported purchasing tickets cheaper at Rail Europe.