"If it's a millimeter over size...."..

http://www.ihateryanair.org/

Gee, I have really enjoyed my 4 Ryanair flights. All I did was read their rules and then do what it said. I took one bag, and made sure it was under 10 kg. No problem. I got round trip flights to Edinburgh for 11 euro. Round trip flights to Rome for 35 euro. For people on a low budget, they are fine. I was happy that I could give my daughter a memorable trip to Scotland for her graduation gift, even though I didn't have much money. I don't need to drink anything on a 2 hour flight, nor eat anything, so I don't purchase food and drink on the flight. Both Edinburgh and Rome flights landed at the regular airport and all were on time. The bus trip from Frankfurt to Hahn in Germany was an easy 1.5 hour trip for 12 euro. It bugs me when people here on the Helpline, put down a company that they have never used personally. (I have edited this for clarity, since some readers may have thought I meant the people on the link from the OP, who have complained about their trips with Ryanair. I didn't mean them at all of course)

I think probably most of the customer service complaints have come from people that used them.

I agree completely with Jo. If you follow their rules, you will have no problem with Ryanair. I flew with them most recently last month, from Glasgow to El Prat, the main airport in Barcelona (so much for the complaints that they "trick" you into smaller airports), for 39 euro. Every time I have flown with them, their staff was great, the plane was new and clean, and we got in early. I believe they also have one of the top safety records in the industry.
Elaine may be right that the customer service complaints come from people who have used them, but they are no doubt people who didn't bother to read as they booked, or who assumed that it would be the same as a US airline.

Discussions about RyanAir often seem to be a very divisive topic. One sentence in the article that Elaine linked seems to summarize the feelings about RyanAir - "The Irish firm, this week voted the worst of the 100 biggest brands serving the British market by readers of consumer magazine Which?". Another item from the article - "I have seen people crying at boarding gates". These two quotes don't seem to be too indicative of happy customers. I don't believe their advertising is "deceptive" in terms of the airports they use, but the fact remains that they DO use some out-of-the-way airports such as Beauvais (Paris). There's no way I'm going to use RyanAir for flights to Paris when I can use one of the other budget carriers and fly into CDG or ORY. For the record, I HAVE flown with RyanAir and as I recall it wasn't an especially pleasant experience, especially being nicked for a pricey baggage charge even though I was barely over the limit. I did my best to keep the weight down and thought I was under the limit, but their scale seemed to be set a bit differently than mine. I'll use RyanAir if there's nothing else available, but my preferred airline in Europe is EasyJet. I've always found their booking process to be "easy" and their flights and staff to be great. I've also used other budget airlines in Europe, and they also provided a nicer travel experience than RyanAir.

There's often a claim that people who criticise Ryanair are ignorant elitists. I remember how upset a pair of fellow British women were who I met at a provincial French bus station and had to explain to that, yes, the bus to the airport they'd just missed was the only one that day. They had assumed that an airport named after a city would have a frequent public transport link to it, and I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption.

"Barely over the limit" is still over the limit, hence the charge. People crying at boarding gates? Again, probably people who didn't follow their rules. No one would suggest you go to a distant airport if another works better for you, but sometimes the distant airport is exactly where you want to be (for example, my Ryanair flight from London to Santander, Spain). I still believe that most peoples' problem with Ryanair is because of their own lack of attention or preparation, not because of anything the airline did to them, or because they were unfriendly. When people complain of poor customer service, they often mean that they were not given some special treatment, or bending of a rule, to which they felt entitled.

Using Google Earth, note the G650 parked in George's driveway.

SkyTracs (www.airlinequality.com) rates airplines. Only 1 airline in the world (Air Koryo) is rated one star. Only about 26 airlines are rated 2 stars, and RyanError and Spirit are the only 2 star airrlines from 1st world countries. Most of the rest are from Asia, Middle East, and Eastern Europe. Read customer reviews of Ryan here. But I almost agree with Jo that if you understand the low ratings, predatory pricing, and location limitations and can deal with them, it's OK. I guess that by Jo's criteria, I could not advise anyone not to drink strychnine, because I've never done it. My major gripe with Ryan is that they must know that their airport names - Frankfurt (Hahn), Düsseldorf (Weeze), Munich West (Memmingen), Paris (Beauvais), etc - are misleading, but do they try to correct it. NO! OK, they do identify the locations on their website (buried under "Route Maps", where people might not notice). Why don't they be honest and call them Hahn, Weeze, Memmingen, and Beauvais, and tell you under route maps that they are somewhere near Frankfurt, Düsseldorf, Munich, and Paris. Too many time I have had to help posters on this site who made flight reservations thinking that the airport must be near the city it was named after. Ha! Sometimes the only flights out are before the first public transportation arrives in the morning. And, BTW, according to the Bohr bus company, the time from Frankfurt Hbf to Hahn airport is 1-3/4 hours and costs 14€.

Well, the last time I flew with Ryanair, the bus took 1.5 hours both ways, and I paid 12 euro. This was a couple of years ago. People are unsatisfied cause they don't read properly. The website is very clear, and nothing is hidden. Comparing an airline and drinking poison is bizarre. As to needing to dig through the website to find the airport locations, it is right on the front page and the distance is even bolded!
http://www.ryanair.com/en/flights-to-frankfurt-hahn/

Sorry, Philip, but what has that to do with being elitist? When I book a trip, I figure out every leg of it before I book. I limit my flight choices to when I can get ongoing transportation. I had to scrap plans to visit a friend this time because the only train that day got me there too late to have any time to visit. In the case of the women you cite, they should not have assumed anything, no matter how logical it might seem. They should have checked before booking to see what the ground transportation options were. That's not the fault of the airline.

I think there are two separate issues. Some people, actually many people, are still naive to the "no-free-lunches" concept. I've flown Ryanair and I don't think they are deceptive, but, then, I'm a reasonable seasoned traveler and an attentive costumer on online purchases in general. I can understand why a family of 4, without much disposable income and without savvy adults, that buys cheap tickets to visit their relatives across the continent and then get slapped with a € 160 fee because they didn't print their boarding passes might get frustrated and exasperated, even if I agree it is a "buyer beware" situation. Some people are naive to an extent you shouldn't be in 2013's society, and they end up on the receiving end of heavy-handed throw-them-the-book management style. On the other hand, there are people who know the rules and terms of low-cost airline travel (or airline travel anywhere these days), yet count on exceptions or their ability to "charm their way through" larger or heavier luggage above the limits, to get around lost-and-void tickets when they miss a non-tied connection etc. These are usually people you'd find on Flyer Talk. People that will complain their 26kg suitacase was not allowed even if only 3kg above the limit. I will use another example: years ago I used to participate in a travel forum geared towards students on a budget. I'd often read complaints and acrimonious angry posts not because of things that were not delivered, but because of loopholes that were closed or not made available. For instance, many would-be travelers to the Netherlands were cursing and dissing when the railways moved towards RFID discount cards because they could no longer buy discounted tickets than beg a resident passenger to let them tailgate on their discount cards.

I support the economy by paying airlines like British Air, Swiss or Eidelweiss, or SAS more money, so I can go through the major airports, instead of trying to save $$ and being inconvenienced. Plus I am always, almost guaranteed a pleasant flight.

So, charging a family of four an extra 160€ because they failed to print boarding passes before checking in is a fair business practice?

Bruce, yes, it is fair. They had the same access to the regulations of travel as everyone not paying that fee. It plainly states on the website that you MUST print your boarding pass, or you will be charged (the fee is even specifically listed). The information is not hidden, it's right there. If they failed to read thoroughly before buying, that is their problem. Last month I flew with Ryanair, EasyJet, and Virgin Atlantic. Ryanair allows you to check in online and print your boarding pass up to an entire month ahead of the flight. (EasyJet was two weeks ahead, and Virgin Atlantic was 24 hours ahead.) I can't think of a reason that someone could not manage to print a boarding pass at any point during the 30 days before their flight. The rules are the rules. I have to follow them in order to get their good deals. If they want the good deals, they have the same responsibility. Yes, people can miss things or make mistakes, but that doesn't mean the conditions should suddenly not apply.

Hi, It makes no difference to me. I'm open to flying with Ryan since you're getting to your destination for the price of fish and chips regardless of its level of customer service. That it ranges from poor to non-existent is well known, so what? The new strategy may be to "be nice to customers" even to the extent of a mm, but are they demanding the new attitude be reciprocated by the customer? If I have to fly to Paris or Munich, esp. Paris, I'll keep Ryan in mind. No problems with arriving in Beauvais, a quaint and lovely town to stay in without the masses of tourists. Paris Nord is ca. one hour away. If not Paris, then choose Amiens. Memmingen...a bit harder to justify, but I haven't been there since 1971 when I had to transfer from Sigmaringen, still an historical place.

Nancy is absolutely right. I have flown with multiple European discount airlines (though not Ryanair), and there is no subterfuge in a typical discount airline's rules. They are strict, but if you are prepared to follow them, which isn't hard, you can enjoy yourself a cheap flight without any headaches. If people are expecting a 30-dollar flight to be the same as a multi-hundred-dollar flight, that sort of gullibility (or arrogance) is their own problem. This reminds me of reading hostel reviews from people who were dismayed that they had to share a bathroom in spite of very clear indications.

If people are expecting a 30-dollar flight to be the same as a multi-hundred-dollar flight, that sort of gullibility (or arrogance) is their own problem. Yeah but only a minority of passengers who book very early actually actually get those low fares. Most of the passengers on the plane are paying a lot more (often the same fares the full-service airlines offer), yet still get nickel and dimes like the $20 a seat passenger does.

Ryanair (and the other budget airlines) have "a la carte" pricing. That is their business model. If it's OK with you, fly with them. If not, don't. It's that simple. My flight with EasyJet was not particularly cheap, but it was still cheaper than any other flight options by hundreds of dollars.

I have no problem whatsoever with airlines pricing various services and goods à la carte. However, please tell me what is the economic relationship (staff times/equipment/materials) to reissue a a lost/stolen "boarding card" and the related fee of 70€/70£ per Ryanair? 70€/70£....for a boarding pass. Really?

Well, nobody here has any control over what any business, or government entity charges for fines - that's up to them. If you think 70 euro fine is excessive for not printing a boarding pass, then print the dm thing. If you think 200 euro fine is excessive for exceeding the speed limits on European roads, then don't exceed the speed limit. If you think 50 euro fine for not having a ticket on the vaporetto in Venice is excessive, then buy a dm ticket. Complaining about it isn't going to do anything. If you don't like their business practices, then don't patronize them. Just read and know the rules before you buy, ignorance is no excuse.

The question of honest business practices has more than one layer. True, Ryanair is honest in that all rules are pretty clearly laid out and any person with a moderate degree of savviness about business practices like this can get a cheap fare by buying early and avoid surcharges by following the rules. However, no airline, including Ryanair, can fly passengers anywhere for 11 Euro per person. The fuel alone costs much more than that. So their business model is based upon a significant amount of revenue from last-minute ticket purchases at high cost, as well as a significant contribution to the revenue stream from penalties. I'm certain they have actuaries who can pretty accurately predict what the "average" customer will wind up paying in penalties. They are essentially designed - not to discourage a behavior (as we generally expect penalties to work) - but in fact designed to entrap the less savvy among us. Ryanair does NOT want you to print your boarding pass ahead of time. They WANT you to forget. That is a business practice that is perfectly legal, but in my opinion, also fundamentally dishonest. If you are looking into a 500-mile flight within Europe, you'll probably find options generally settle in three levels; High - generally on major airlines and for people who don't price shop, Low - at a ridiculous level that doesn't even cover the cost of fuel, much less the cost of the plane, employees and profit, and Middle - seemingly a realistic number that represents an "honest" no-frills business practice. I'm a cheapskate by nature, but I would probably favor the middle option. I would like to think that my consumer choices promote honest business practices on ALL levels.

I'm certain they have actuaries who can pretty accurately predict what the "average" customer will wind up paying in penalties. Nah, those cost too much. A computer model that crunches the data in real time can tell you that...it's not a hard thing to predict averages based on different scenarios if you have reams of data to work with. Computers can do that all day/night long with no pay raises or benefits required.

Cannot agree with the Nancys more. This thread reminds me of an office discussion we just had: folks are complaining because our supervisor actually expects them to follow the guidelines and regulations. Anyways, I think of it the other way: people aren't being penalized, but rather those that followed the rules are being rewarded. If I go in informed, then my research and work is being rewarded by having to avoid paying the extra fees.