Quiet Europe in summer?

If you like wine (or even if you don't), the wine-growing Remstal region just east of Stuttgart is beautiful and very untouristy.

http://www.remstal-route.de/

In addition to wine-tasting and cellar tours, you'll find nice bike paths, a sculpture path, great food and warm hospitality.

In Switzerland, a place we like that is more remote than Gimmelwald is the Lötschental:

http://www.myswitzerland.com/en/destinations/resorts/holiday-destinations-in-switzerland/loetschental.html

Or try our favorite, with amazing views south into Italy, west to the Matterhorn (in the distance) and, if you ascend the ridge behind town, the mighty Aletschgletscher:

www.bettmeralp.ch

These are both only a few hours from Gimmelwald. Bettmeralp is (more or less) on your way to Italy if you are going there. Three days at Gimmelwald and 3 at one of these spots (or another place in Switzerland) would give you a nice sampler of rural Switzerland and the Alps.

We stayed in the Emmental region of Switzerland. Not very touristy but centrally located for daytrips to Interlaken, Bern, Lucerne, Thun ... In fact, the small town where we stayed had 2 hotels and one of them was closed for 2 weeks in July for staff vacation!

www.eggiwil.ch

Looks like the town's website is in German only (another indication that's not very touristy) but the vacation appartment we stayed at is owned by a former English teacher and that website has loads of information as well:

www.kapfschwand.ch

And then there's the Dolomites . . .

Do you have a starting and ending point in mind for your trip?

Well, we had tenatively planned to land in Zurich train to Gimmelwald, then train to Varenna, on to Verona, on to Bologna, to the Dolomites, into Hall/Tirol, then Munich, Hallstatt, Melk and Vienna. (Not sure if I have these in the proper order) So land in Zurich, depart from Vienna.

But, without having been to some of these locations, it is hard to know how impacted they are with tourists. Also, as we look more into France, even Croatia, it is tempting to change our plan. We are really totally open, just want to avoid craziness with crowds and do more small town Europe. Obviously, Vienna is not small town, but some city time is ok, just not the bulk of the trip. We also don't want to travel too far between stops, so we need to do something that makes sense. Any more ideas?

In France, I think parts of Burgundy would fit the bill--it's lovely, and mostly rural, and there are some real gems.

I'm not sure how that fits into your itinerary, unless you are going to end in Paris--but would that be such a bad idea? I know its a big bad city, bit I find that vivid contrasts enrich any itinerary.

If you are staying in very small towns, like Gimmelwald, it is paradoxically more important to reserve ahead, because there aren't as many choices. One small town in Burgundy I know has one one creaky hotel with 10 rooms.

Have a wonderful trip.

It looks like you have in mind mostly Rick Steves-recommended places, maybe having seem them in his videos? Some of them will indeed be touristy; others not so much. But I'm afraid it's hard to find anyplace endorsed by Rick (other than Gimmelwald) that is actually "quiet" in summer.

Asssuming a start in Zürich and going to Gimmelwald, you could follow your plans as outlined through Italy (but why Bologna?---add time to the Dolomites, as 3 nights there is never enough, at least for us) and then choose between Austria and Croatia. If Croatia, return to Venice (I think there's a ferry from Istria) and fly out of there.

I have no idea how crowded with tourists Croatia might be in mid-summer. I do know that my kids were there in May last year, and they were told they were fortunate to come before the hoardes of tourists arrived from northern Europe, later in the summer.

Yes, most of the areas we are familiar with are just from seeing RS on TV.

We really love Italy, and I was figuring that we would need to stop a couple times (from Switzerland) to get up to the Dolomites, so I thought Bologna would be a less touristy area and on the way, and good food, as well as stops in Varrena and Verona. But I really don't know, never been to those areas before.

BTW, we won't stay in Zurich, just land and go to Gimmelwald. And also, have been to Gimmelwald before but want to do it again and hike more, before my MS gets worse, so this is really the only place I want to work in, otherwise we are open to suggestions.

I was thinking I heard that travel times in Croatia are long because it is really spread out. I haven't researched it yet, so don't know if that is feasible to get from Switzerland to Croatia in 4 weeks, maybe too far?

If you had a month and wanted to include Gimmelwald, what would be your plan? I also agree that it is nice to mix landscape (city vs. county), and would be open to that. Wish we were not stuck with a summer vacation, but thankful to get to go!

A month would be a luxury for me, as our trips right now are limited to 2 weeks. I know Switzerland best, but love Italy too---that is where we are going this summer, including some of the places you have mentioned, so I've looked into various routes. To my chagrin, we had to leave out the Dolomites this time to fit everything else in.

We usually spend 1 night in Zurich after the long flight from the west coast,rather than hoping on a train to Muerren, but one time we stayed near Luzern and that was lovely.

I think you could include Switzerland, Italy and Croatia, depending on the ferry schedules between points in Italy and Croatia.

There are several routes you could take to get from Gimmelwald to Varenna; one of them would use the scenic Bernina Express route (as far as Tirano), and others would go via Lugano with or without a transfer in Milan.

From Varenna to Verona is around 3 hours. The easiest and fastest connection is through Milan, but you can avoid that if you like by staying on the smaller regional trains connecting through Brescia (or maybe it's Bergamo).

Verona to Bolzano, gateway to the Dolomites, is only 1.5 to 2 hours by train. No need to go to Bologna, unless you want another town and more time in Italy. From Bolzano you continue to the Dolomites by local bus (very nice, comfortable buses); or you could rent a car in Bolzano for this part. I've only done the bus there.

You can play with the train schedules (I like the Swiss one, www.rail.ch) to figure out a route that makes the most sense to you, and includes the highlights without a lot of backtracking.

I believe there are ferries to various points in Croatia from Venice and other points along the Italian coast, or you could go to Trieste. I'm sure someone here has done this and can point you in the right direction.

If we had a month to spend we would do something just like this.

I suggest Northern Spain - I loved the Basque country - both in Spain and France. San Sebastian was great, I thought quiet, pretty scenes, etc..

On the topic of crowds in the summer, the most noticeable is the time when you want to travel between Germany and France, especially when you take the northern route and ride the TGV and Thalys train, which I suggest never ever doing, unless there is just no other option open, ie, don't take a Thalys train. In July Munich will be crowded, and, of course, Paris. If there is a particular hotel, Pension, or hostel you want in Munich, Vienna, and Paris, better reserve. In Germany and France I go to both touristy and non-touristy cities/towns, since I know which is which.

Bologna doesn't attract a huge hoard of tourists because it isn't in the RS or many other books. It is in a fascinating area, the food capital of Italy. Makes a great base for day trips to places like Parma, and is nice in its own right. However I would strongly recommend reservations in advance; while not so popular with tourists, it is a popular location for conventions and so many of the rooms may be booked up. If you want to be off the beaten path, why not instead stay 3 nites in Parma and use that as a base to visit the region (including Bologna)?

Thanks to everyone for all the ideas. We'll have to do more research and figure out where to go, but you've given me great ideas to start looking into.