Questions about train travel in Europe from a novice

The problem is rarely that trains are booked up, although that can happen occasionally for trains requiring seat reservations. The issue is that the walk-up fare on a fast train can be 3 times the bought-way-in-advance fare, because the bargain fares usually sell out pretty quickly to people who know exactly when they are traveling and can buy a non-refundable/non-changeable ticket.

There are at least three ways around this situation:

• Consider taking the bus when the schedule works for you. (Sometimes a bus is the only option.) Bus fares may be a bit lower when tickets are bought in advance, but they don't skyrocket like train fares as your departure day approaches. Buses are usually cheaper than trains to begin with, and European buses are typically extremely comfortable.

• Take regional trains where practical. They make more stops and can be a lot slower, but sometimes the difference is mere minutes for relatively short trips, and regional-train fares don't necessarily vary according to when you buy your ticket. If you're visiting smaller towns and cities, you may have no choice but to take regional trains. Problem solved.

• Look into special local deals like day-tickets and regional weekend passes, which typically don't have to be purchased far in advance. You may find some useful information about those on the fabulously informative Seat 61 website. Germany seems to offer a lot of such opportunities.

If you want to observe the time-sensitivity of train fares, pick a trip you are planning to take, go to the web site of the national train company (SNCF for France, Deutsche Bahn for Germany, TrenItalia for Italy, Renfe for Spain, etc.). Price that ticket for tomorrow, then price it for a date 90 days in the future. If the prices aren't available that far out (might be the case, schedule changes are due to be announced soon), go with a date as far into the future as the webpage accepts. See the difference?

Depending on where you're planning to travel, it may be practical to buy just one or two long-distance train tickets in advance to get the savings, and leave other legs of your trip flexible. Post again when you have a fairly good idea where you want to travel, and let people make suggestions.

For very long travel legs, it can make more sense, and even be cheaper, if you fly on one of the budget airlines. But to make that work you absolutely have to buy the (non-refundable/non-changeable) ticket very early, and you have to read and adhere to all the picky rules about baggage and checking in.

You can be spontaneous and buy tickets on the day of travel but you will mostly paying the most expensive fare; especially for high-speed trains. High-speed trains use airline style pricing. So the sooner you book the cheaper it will be.

Imagine what you would pay if you just packed your bags, went to the airport and walked up to the desk and said "Get me on the next flight to Rome." European railways (and American as far as Amtrak is concerned) price their tickets the same way. Offer big savings to people who are willing to commit absolutely far in advance and soak the last minute traveler. That is because Amtrak and European railways are competing with discount airlines who price their tickets that way as well.

You can still go the Eurail Pass way. You will pay about twice what the people who buy far in advance will pay and still have some extra reservation fees to pay for in France or Italy, but it will still be half of what someone who just buys spur of the moment.

Another thing about those last minute fares, they are usually bought by business people who have to travel spur-of-the-moment for sales or project meetings. Since they travel a lot, they have bought Half Fare Cards, so the walk-up price might be 120 EUR for a train, but they will actually only be paying 60 EUR because of their Half Fare subscriptions. These are usually annual, so they don't pay off for short term visitors.

Keep in mind the most of the above comments are very general. Each country has its own rail system with different pricing structures, reservation requires, etc. So to give good advice, we really need to know where and when you are traveling. For example - all trains in Italy except Regionale require a reservation and train fares are relatively cheap even for the walk up fare. For other systems reservations, Germany for example, are optional on many trains. English trains probably are the most expensive so advance purchase discount tickets can be significant. So where are you going???

Thank you, this has all been very helpful. I don't have any definitive plans yet, right now I'm just trying to learn as much as possible about the different methods of transportation to get some ideas about my options.

Keep in mind that there is a downside to buying tickets 92 days in advance. You do save but you lock yourself in to a time and date specific train. If you want to commit to that, thereby sacrificing flexibility for savings, that's fine, if that fits into your style of traveling. If savings are not so important to you, then you retain the flexibility by not committing to a date and time specific train. Basically, train travel is a matter of your traveling preference and style, including also night trains. I use the discounted adv. purchase tickets from time to time, depending on the specific route and country too. If you take regional trains, reservations are not sold. No matter how crowded it is, ie, every seat taken, you hop on and stand. You won't be the only one standing.

On a definite tangent, I'd point out that traveling spontaneously can pose another big problem in finding last-minute accommodations. There's also the minor, but important, issue that a few very popular sights need to be booked days or weeks in advance.

If this is your first trip to Europe, I'd highly recommend reading Europe Through The Back Door prior to your trip. That will answer a lot of your questions on rail travel and lots of other subjects. After that use the country-specific guidebooks to plan hotels, sightseeing, etc.

You could also have a look at the Man In Seat 61 website, which has just about everything you'll ever need to know about travelling by train. You may also find it helpful to watch some of Rick's videos on the subject....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AxtbifeoBY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBLrjKFP9Xw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Qm_CPf080

For us the flexibility of a rail pass is priceless. We have never had a problem with finding hotels last minute. If there is a place I want to see that requires an advance ticket purchase then I buy it and can still make sure I arrive in that location in time for my ticket - the best of both worlds.

It just depends on which style works best for you.

Another invaluable tool is the pan-European train planner presented by the German railways: www.bahn.de/p_en/view/index.shtml It connects the schedules of all European railway companies, from high-speed international trains to the slowest regional trains.
For the choice between plane and train, a useful rule of thumb is that up to six hours the train takes less time, going from city centre to city centre, without early checking in, standing in the queue for security checks, and waiting at the luggage belt.

You sound like a candidate for a rail pass to me, especially if you'll be visiting multiple countries and taking numerous long-distance trips. There's been a lot of well-deserved backlash against rail passes on the basis of cost and semi-hidden costs like reservations - and advance-sale tickets can be a great savings - but for some itineraries and for loosely-planned travel, such options are not very practical at all.

You will get more helpful advice once you have a specific itinerary to share.

Will you be visiting Germany? In addition to the day passes mentioned above, the German Rail pass now covers destinations in a multitude of countries, something to keep in mind as you explore the standard multi-country Eurailpass options.

Based on my research, it looks like Paris is the cheapest airport to fly into on the continent, so I'll probably start there, but I would like to make my way to Germany.

tph2010, what is your departure airport?

@stan I fly out of Orlando, FL

tph,

"it looks like Paris is the cheapest airport to fly into on the continent"

It may be the cheapest but not the most "user friendly" in my experience. Depending on which parts of Europe you're planning to visit, you might also look at Frankfurt.

Ken,

It may be the cheapest but not the most "user friendly" in my
experience.

Thanks for letting me know, I would like to balance cost with convenience. Are you at all familiar with flying into Amsterdam or Copenhagen? They seem relatively affordable as well.

Paris to Germany would be one route that does require a seat reservation, since most service is by reserved TGV train. If you can book a Paris hotel and that train ride at the start, then the rest of the trip can be much more flexible. See https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains/reservations and related links. the same would apply if you needed a TGV or Thalys train back to Paris. but we usually prefer to buy a "multi-city" plane ticket, into one city and home from another. Amsterdam Schiphol airport is very user-friendly.

If you want to see Paris, by all means fly to Paris. Charles De Gaulle is a huge airport, spread out with many terminals. Not a great place to change planes, but if Paris is your first destination, its fine. Maybe a bit longer to clear immigration if you have lot of flights arriving at the same time. Lots of options by train or bus to get into Paris.

Hi,

If flying to Europe is the cheapest with Paris, I would do it. I fly direct from SFO to Europe, ie, to Frankfurt, London Heathrow, or Paris CDG. The main draw back at CDG is that you may experience a longer time in getting the luggage at baggage claim.

While you should certainly look at how much money it will cost to fly to various places, you should not fly to a place you do not want to see just because it's "cheap." The time and money it will take to get from there, to where you really want to be, will more than offset the initial savings.

Similarly, if you are seeing more than one place, you usually want "open jaw" flights - into one city and out of another (for instance, Orlando to Paris and Rome to Orlando). To find these, use the "multi city" option on Kayak, Google Flights, etc. Even if this costs more than a standard round trip (and it may not), you save lots of time and money by not backtracking.

Yes, Paris CDG airport is large and always busy, but I haven't found arriving there to be any different from any other large and busy airport (Heathrow, JFK, Chicago O'Hare, etc.). Changing planes there, however, can definitely be harder than at Amsterdam or Copenhagen. Again, though, when choosing airports, I would worry more about where you want to go than about the airports themselves. Copenhagen airport is lovely and user friendly - but if you're not going to Copenhagen or other nearby places, it won't do you much good.

One exception: Venice airport is time consuming and potentially expensive to reach, and most flights back to the US leave at very early hours (there are a few exceptions). Therefore, leaving Venice from its airport can be trouble. If you have a choice of starting or ending your trip in Venice, pick starting - it's easier.

tph,

"Are you at all familiar with flying into Amsterdam or Copenhagen?"

I haven't been to Copenhagen, but I have been to Amsterdam. Schipol is a large single terminal airport but it's well organized so that would be a good option. Are you planning to change planes there or begin your journey in Amsterdam? One issue with Copenhagen is that there will be a cost in both time and money to get to other locations in Europe that you'll be visiting.

The other negative of buying tickets far out is you may get caught in labour disruptions.

Are you planning to change planes there or begin your journey in
Amsterdam? One issue with Copenhagen is that there will be a cost in
both time and money to get to other locations in Europe that you'll be
visiting.

I was thinking of spending a few days in whatever city I fly into and then moving on from there. Maybe Amsterdam onto Germany, for example.

That certainly works, ie Amsterdam for a few days, then take the train to Duisburg where you can transfer elsewhere in Germany. or that can be done from Paris on a discount ticket of 39 Euro to Frankfurt or Saarbrucken.

tph2010 - We did a Amsterdam/Copenhagen/Stockholm trip this past summer. Getting from Amsterdam to Copenhagen was very easy. We used SAS airlines for our flight. I enjoyed Copenhagen a great deal but, I will say that I found it to be a little pricey. We also opted for the 72 hour transit pass. I liked their mass transit system. It got us everywhere we wanted to go.

My husband and I did a multi-city trip in spring of 2015, and we booked most of our train tickets a few days before, and one on the day of. I DO NOT recommend the rail pass - for the two of us for a 2 week trip, it was going to be a $1100 expense. Meanwhile, the actual cost of our tickets bought separately was around $600 total (second class, not fancy). I wouldn't worry.